Video in question. (new window)

Bonus Don Cherry biatching about knee-on-knee hits.

*sniff sniff* Poutine?

After watching the the video, I'm glad he was given more than 2 min but I don't really agree with a 5 game suspension. Suppose they just want to make an example out of him.

I do remember him saying something along the lines of, he felt it was clean and he won't get a suspension because I wasn't given a misconduct by the refs.

Gl get's a good rep because he's well spoken on film but honestly I think he's a dirty player. Kronwall makes hard, clean hits and opposing teams don't like him for it.

Good for BGL. Kronwall is a dirty, POS headhunter. Got what he deserved. Maybe he will play with a little respect and quit leaving his feet when he goes for a hit.

Too bad he was the only Red Wing to go down.

Im loving the suspension flowchart


Laraque is one of my fave goons. Him and Brashear. Yes I root for the black guys in hockey, its lonely out there on the ice.

Katalyst

What a sad, sad life you lead. Still crying in your Stanley Cup?

Katalyst: Maybe he will play with a little respect and quit leaving his feet when he goes for a hit.

you don't want that.... that just means he'll be better.

It's a dangerous hit, I can see that. But was it intentional?

5 game suspension seems a little much for that.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Katalyst

What a sad, sad life you lead. Still crying in your Stanley Cup?


...says the guy living in Novi Michigan.

There isn't any crying here chump. Wings suck and so do you.

Drakin020: It's a dangerous hit, I can see that. But was it intentional?


His left leg came off the ice

As a Wings fan I'll admit Kronwall did go through a bit of a dirty streak. There were times when he came close to leaving his feet to through a hit, but he seems to be moving pasted those times and focusing more on playing with skill instead of shady hits.

/Laraque is liking getting this as a message to the league as a whole to stop this kind of play

WTF is with the Hero tag? I hope it's for the NHL for suspending him...cheap shots like that end careers.

Uhmmm I disagree with this suspension. I would agree if Matt Cooke got the same suspension for his hit on Shean Donovan the other night. Donovan is out 6-8 weeks with an MCL injury. Cooke didn't even get a penalty.

Of course Donovan is a 4th liner, so he's not protected the same way Kronwall is.

Cooke is just as dirty as GL... and fits the above suspension flowchart to a T.

If the NHL dropped the Instigator rule, this type of goonery would be out of the game.

twirlypen: the funny thing is that he loved him when he was a Penguin.

Even funnier is the fact that he wasn't even a Pens fan until they started winning. He used to pimp the Senators in 06-07.

\Douche

Nice pun, but Laraque is no hero. He's a goon, or at least as close as you can get to a goon in the new NHL. He's like a giant Ulf Samuelson.

Katalyst: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Katalyst

What a sad, sad life you lead. Still crying in your Stanley Cup?


...says the guy living in Novi Michigan.

There isn't any crying here chump. Wings suck and so do you.

Pathetic. Now I remember why I had you on ignore. Still cranky and bitter even after your team captured the prize. Like I said, sad existence.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Katalyst: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Katalyst

What a sad, sad life you lead. Still crying in your Stanley Cup?


...says the guy living in Novi Michigan.

There isn't any crying here chump. Wings suck and so do you.

Pathetic. Now I remember why I had you on ignore. Still cranky and bitter even after your team captured the prize. Like I said, sad existence.

He's not even a Pens fan. He's a bandwagon jumper who is a "huge fan" of who ever is playing well. I'm sure this year he'll be a Caps or Devils fan if the Penguins fall off a bit.

As a B's fan, I have to despise Laraque by proxy... though I will give him credit for not gooning it up in last year's playoff series with the B's after it was clear the Bruin's were going to win, unlike that little biatch Komisarek...

I think the suspension is warranted, though, as others have pointed out, I wish there were more consistency with punishments in the league.

StoneG: Uhmmm I disagree with this suspension. I would agree if Matt Cooke got the same suspension for his hit on Shean Donovan the other night. Donovan is out 6-8 weeks with an MCL injury. Cooke didn't even get a penalty.

Of course Donovan is a 4th liner, so he's not protected the same way Kronwall is.

Cooke is just as dirty as GL... and fits the above suspension flowchart to a T.

If the NHL dropped the Instigator rule, this type of goonery would be out of the game.

It just goes to show that many of these players (Kronwall included) have little or no respect for the health of other players. The NHL has been marketed as a hard-hitting league with little to no fighting...oddly enough, that's what the players have molded their games into. The hits always make the highlights, and then everybody panics when all of a sudden a guy gets knocked unconscious...but he's told to hold his head up and the game moves on.

All they have to do is start calling charging again. If they won't allow the players to police themselves, then the onus is on the NHL. But they won't.

But knee to knee is nothing but dirty if it's intentional. Hard to say if this one was, but it kinda looked that way.

Soooo....5 games for a knee on knee by this asswaffle, 3 games for Glencross' concussion causing cheap shot on Drury, Randy Jones gets 2 games for a season (and potentially life) ending cheap shot on Bergeron in '07 and Bertuzzi is still allowed to lace them up?

I'd say that even the NHL Suspension Flow Chart can't cover that level of ineptitude on behalf of the league.

Also:


/Go B's!

jdog71: Soooo....5 games for a knee on knee by this asswaffle, 3 games for Glencross' concussion causing cheap shot on Drury, Randy Jones gets 2 games for a season (and potentially life) ending cheap shot on Bergeron in '07 and Bertuzzi is still allowed to lace them up?

I'd say that even the NHL Suspension Flow Chart can't cover that level of ineptitude on behalf of the league.

Also:


/Go B's!

It almost looks like they're waiting for someone to die out there.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: jdog71: Soooo....5 games for a knee on knee by this asswaffle, 3 games for Glencross' concussion causing cheap shot on Drury, Randy Jones gets 2 games for a season (and potentially life) ending cheap shot on Bergeron in '07 and Bertuzzi is still allowed to lace them up?

I'd say that even the NHL Suspension Flow Chart can't cover that level of ineptitude on behalf of the league.

Also:


/Go B's!

It almost looks like they're waiting for someone to die out there.

Sadly, that's what it will take for them to make sweeping changes. Fighting, or more specifically, the mentality of a league that allows fighting, is the problem. I have no problem with fighting...but the fact that its merely penalized has definitely lead to a mindset of "fark it, I don't need to pull up on this check" or "I'm only going to get 2 games if I knock this guy unconscious".

To eliminate that mentality, I think they would need to either A: Eliminate fighting by throwing down automatic suspensions and $$ penalties to the teams involved.
or
B: Create a completely new set of iron-clad rules for egregious offenses...say, keep the offending player out for as long as the player they injured has to sit on the sidelines. Example: Bergeron missed virtually the entire 2007-2008 season due to concussion. The player causing that concussion would sit for the season also. This would only really work for the really obvious situations...but 'obvious' is subjective, and the NHL has shown its inability to deal with subjectivity.

The whole implied "fighting draws fans" perspective of the NHL is ludicrous. How many people do you know that honestly go to games just for the fights? At $90 a ticket (in Boston at least), I'd say none. Maybe thats the selling point down in Florida or out in Phoenix, but in the north, the overwhelming majority of fans are there for the game itself, not the sideshow.

The game has changed to high-speed, offense oriented play over the last few years. They really need to modify their entire disciplinary structure in order to keep up with those changes. You can't sell a product if that product destroys itself.

StoneG: I would agree if Matt Cooke got the same suspension for his hit on Shean Donovan the other night. Donovan is out 6-8 weeks with an MCL injury. Cooke didn't even get a penalty.

Came here to say this. Fark that slimy douche Cooke and fark the league for ignoring it. I'm just happy it's only 6-8 weeks - they were originally guessing his season, if not career, was over.

Katalyst: Good for BGL. Kronwall is a dirty, POS headhunter. Got what he deserved. Maybe he will play with a little respect and quit leaving his feet when he goes for a hit.



Oh whatever.

Leaving your feet does not equal sticking your knee out.

And Kronwall, on the occasions that he does leave his feet, does so to maximize the momentum of his hit, not to "head-hunt."

How many players that Kronwell has hit have missed five weeks? Give me the list, please.

To equate what Kronwall does to what Laraque did is asinine.



Too bad he was the only Red Wing to go down.



Since you've already proven you're an idiot and a hater, I'll ignore the rest of your comments. Perhaps you can dry your bitter tears on one of the many banners we have hanging at Joe Louis Arena.

Laraque is a bum and brings nothing to the game but knee-on-knees and staged fights. I wish him and his pussy post-lockout brethen would disappear.

jdog71: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: jdog71: Soooo....5 games for a knee on knee by this asswaffle, 3 games for Glencross' concussion causing cheap shot on Drury, Randy Jones gets 2 games for a season (and potentially life) ending cheap shot on Bergeron in '07 and Bertuzzi is still allowed to lace them up?

I'd say that even the NHL Suspension Flow Chart can't cover that level of ineptitude on behalf of the league.

Also:


/Go B's!

It almost looks like they're waiting for someone to die out there.

Sadly, that's what it will take for them to make sweeping changes. Fighting, or more specifically, the mentality of a league that allows fighting, is the problem. I have no problem with fighting...but the fact that its merely penalized has definitely lead to a mindset of "fark it, I don't need to pull up on this check" or "I'm only going to get 2 games if I knock this guy unconscious".

To eliminate that mentality, I think they would need to either A: Eliminate fighting by throwing down automatic suspensions and $$ penalties to the teams involved.
or
B: Create a completely new set of iron-clad rules for egregious offenses...say, keep the offending player out for as long as the player they injured has to sit on the sidelines. Example: Bergeron missed virtually the entire 2007-2008 season due to concussion. The player causing that concussion would sit for the season also. This would only really work for the really obvious situations...but 'obvious' is subjective, and the NHL has shown its inability to deal with subjectivity.

The whole implied "fighting draws fans" perspective of the NHL is ludicrous. How many people do you know that honestly go to games just for the fights? At $90 a ticket (in Boston at least), I'd say none. Maybe thats the selling point down in Florida or out in Phoenix, but in the north, the overwhelming majority of fans are there for the game itself, not the sideshow.

The game has changed to high-speed, offense oriented play over the last few years. They really need to modify their entire disciplinary structure in order to keep up with those changes. You can't sell a product if that product destroys itself.

I've gotta disagree. This type of play started becoming the norm in the 90s.

Were you watching hockey in the 80s? These type of cheap shots just didn't happen, because if they did, you had to answer to the other team's goon.

No, the wreckless play of today started when Bettman decided to suspend people for "instigating", and the cheap shot artists were allowed to roam free. Do you think Scott Stevens would have been as effective as he was if he had to brawl every time he knocked someone silly?

FishingWithFredo: Katalyst: Good for BGL. Kronwall is a dirty, POS headhunter. Got what he deserved. Maybe he will play with a little respect and quit leaving his feet when he goes for a hit.



Oh whatever.

Leaving your feet does not equal sticking your knee out.

And Kronwall, on the occasions that he does leave his feet, does so to maximize the momentum of his hit, not to "head-hunt."

How many players that Kronwell has hit have missed five weeks? Give me the list, please.

To equate what Kronwall does to what Laraque did is asinine.



Too bad he was the only Red Wing to go down.



Since you've already proven you're an idiot and a hater, I'll ignore the rest of your comments. Perhaps you can dry your bitter tears on one of the many banners we have hanging at Joe Louis Arena.

Now why would you say something like that. I amstating for the record, in no way am I defending Katalyst. However, when you defend Kronwall by saying he has not put someone out for weeks on end, and its ok to leave his feet? That's just asinine, it is a dirty hit to leave your feet. Period. Please rethink your arguement.

Why doesn't it surprise me that Katalyst (judging from the parts of his posts you guys have quoted, at least) is somehow okay with what Laraque did?

I'm fine with the suspension and the length. The hit looked intentional, and the timing (during a delayed penalty, right after Laraque was caught high-sticking Darren Helm) doesn't help him either. Kronwall's out for four to eight weeks; compared to that, five games is nothing.

jdog71: Soooo....5 games for a knee on knee by this asswaffle, 3 games for Glencross' concussion causing cheap shot on Drury, Randy Jones gets 2 games for a season (and potentially life) ending cheap shot on Bergeron in '07 and Bertuzzi is still allowed to lace them up?

I get your point and I agree. That said, Bertuzzi was out for a long time, and has behaved himself since he came back. Whether he should have had the chance in the first place is another matter entirely.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: jdog71: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: jdog71:

The game has changed to high-speed, offense oriented play over the last few years. They really need to modify their entire disciplinary structure in order to keep up with those changes. You can't sell a product if that product destroys itself.

I've gotta disagree. This type of play started becoming the norm in the 90s.

Were you watching hockey in the 80s? These type of cheap shots just didn't happen, because if they did, you had to answer to the other team's goon.

No, the wreckless play of today started when Bettman decided to suspend people for "instigating", and the cheap shot artists were allowed to roam free. Do you think Scott Stevens would have been as effective as he was if he had to brawl every time he knocked someone silly?

I've been watching since the 70's. I'm not really talking about cheap shot artists needing to answer to goons. What I'm saying is that the speed of the game has increased dramatically (since the clutch and grab stuff was virtually eliminated) and that change should have resulted in modifications to the rules. You can't have 1970's disciplinary rules for 2000's hockey.

I think the league should be responsible for its players. If someone throws a cheap shot, they should be disciplined accordingly by the league, but the fact remains that they are not.

The instigator penalty is a weak argument. If someone drills Crosby, how many guys are going to jump on him? 2? 3? Are they going to be penalized? Sure. Will they get instigator penalties? Not very likely. What about if someone runs your goalie? Its open season on the guy, isn't it? You don't see instigator penalties being tossed around for that either. Another example? Bruins vs. Carolina in last years playoffs. Ward gets sucker punched by Walker with his hands by his sides and his gloves on. No instigator penalty to Walker. Doesn't get more obvious than that. I watch a lot of hockey. I rarely see an instigator call for the immediate retaliation on a cheap shot. They just don't call it often enough to be an issue, as far as I can tell. Couldn't find any real stats to back it up though.

Scott Stevens was awesome. He was ruthless, and he generally played within the rules. I'd be willing to bet that most of the players in the league at the time knew that and respected (and feared) him for it. Lets see...80's cheap shot artists...Ulf Samuelson was the very definition of the 'cheap shot artist'. So were Chris Nilan and to a lesser extent, Linseman. I can give you several examples off the top of my head where one of those clowns injured someone, took a quick beating from whoever was on the ice, and basically got away with it. Samuelson ended Cam Neely's career with leg on leg bullshiat, and he never really paid for that as far as I'm concerned....though Neely did get one or two vicious beatings in:

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Were you watching hockey in the 80s? These type of cheap shots just didn't happen, because if they did, you had to answer to the other team's goon.

No, the wreckless play of today started when Bettman decided to suspend people for "instigating", and the cheap shot artists were allowed to roam free. Do you think Scott Stevens would have been as effective as he was if he had to brawl every time he knocked someone silly?

That's a bit of a stretch, I'd say. If you look at hockey in Stevens' prime, you didn't see a lot of the crap that goes on today. I don't know that it's because of the goon factor or the instigator, though it may be part of it. No, I think it's more along the lines of players not respecting one another on the ice or respecting the game itself.

We can argue that Stevens hits were questionable (I would say he was a clean, open ice hitter that took advantage of players coming across the middle with their heads down, you may think of him as a head hunter), but he wasn't viewed as a dirty player (like Avery or Ott of today). He hit you straight up when you had the puck. He didn't spear players away from the play. He didn't stick his knee out coming across the blue line. He didn't check people from behind after the play. As a result, he didn't have to defend himself (sure, it didn't hurt that he was paired with Ken Daneyko) because the players then respected a big clean hit.

Now? It's a farking joke. Look at Willie Mitchell (new window)blowing up Jonathan Toews. I'm a Toews fan, but he got hung out to dry on the break-out pass and Mitchell made them pay. It's a clean, hard hit. But look what happened. All the Hawks go after Mitchell. All the Hawks fans wanted Willie's head on a platter. That didn't happen when Stevens was destroying opposing forwards at the New Jersey blueline because it was understood that clean, hard hits were a part of the game. Now everybody wants to drop the gloves any time one of the top 6 forwards gets touched, clean or otherwise.

Perhaps I just need some clarification. Do you think Scott Stevens is a cheap shot artist like Steve Orr or Sean Avery? I don't think that Stevens had to defend himself, because he wasn't giving the opposition's goons reasons to seek retribution. That's changed. You have players running around, spearing, slashing, cheap-shotting, slew-footing behind the play, away from the puck, after the whistle,and those guys in the "agitator" role won't drop the gloves regardless. They jaw and let the refs get in between and never have to answer for it.

10min_game_misconduct: However, when you defend Kronwall by saying he has not put someone out for weeks on end, and its ok to leave his feet? That's just asinine, it is a dirty hit to leave your feet.

I agree that it is a dirty hit to leave your feet. Now please point out where Kronwall has been penalized or suspended for doing just that. If his flagrant, repeated flaunting of the rules and his perpetrating of these egregious, dangerous hits are as ubiquitous as you say, surely you will have no problem pointing to where he's been reprimanded for it.

Speaking as a Habs fan, I think Laraque should have been suspended, but five games when others have gotten less for worse does seem excessive.

At the same time, I saw Kronwall writhing on the ice just post-contact and I hope he has a speedy recovery and gets back on the ice soon.

Max Wannequin: Speaking as a Habs fan, I think Laraque should have been suspended, but five games when others have gotten less for worse does seem excessive.

Speaking as a Red Wings fan, I don't think he should've been suspended. I think he should've been forced to double shift for the next 3 games. That REALLY would've hurt Les Habs!

In all seriousness, you point to the greater issue here, and that is the NHL's complete inability to have a clear, cohesive, and consistent policy towards these sorts of plays. Many have commented upthread about similar instances this season that have gone unpunished, and anyone who watches the NHL knows that we will have countless additional instances during the regular season and playoffs where the NHL blows it. The only thing consistent with Campbell and the NHL's disciplinary office is their inconsistency. Until that gets addressed, this will continue.

Pituophis: I think he should've been forced to double shift for the next 3 games. That REALLY would've hurt Les Habs!

Pituophis FTW!

jdog71 Pitouphis

I started by trying to break up my reply to both of you, but it became jumbled...

The clutch and grab didn't become prevelant until the Devils used it to win the cup in '94(95?).

I don't think you've read all of my posts...I mentioned earlier that if the league won't let the players police themselves, then it is up to the league to do so. So I believe we agree on this point.

I also mentioned earlier that I don't think the players have any respect for the health of other players. So we agree there as well.

As for the scrums after big hits, it could be argued that those are a direct result of not allowing a goon to go out and instigate a fight without getting thrown out and suspended. Now, the only recourse these guys have is gloved punches, face washes, cross-checks, etc. The second they drop the gloves to stick up for their teammate, their game is over unless the agitator drops them, too, which he has no incentive to do.

I really don't think Scott Stevens was a cheap shot artist. He rarely got penalized on those hits where he destroyed people, he was just an amazing open ice hitter. Cheap shots, to me, are the knee to knee and other dirty things going on. What I DO think is that Stevens benefited from the rule change in 94 in that the need to defend his actions by fighting were almost completely diminished. I really don't think those scrums can be compared to dropping the gloves, for the most part. It's just not the same.

Anyways, more power to him for being the right player for the time.

Instigator doesn't get called because people don't drop the gloves anymore. I assure you if a guy drops his gloves and starts pummeling a guy who doesn't, he gets thrown out. Used to be 2 extra mins.

I think we all agree on some level: The game needs to be policed better, and the players need to respect the health of the other players.

I may not have responded to everything...feel free to point out what I missed. Juggling coding and fark is hard work :)

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: I think we all agree on some level: The game needs to be policed better, and the players need to respect the health of the other players.

I may not have responded to everything...feel free to point out what I missed. Juggling coding and fark is hard work :)

Thanks for your clarification. And, yes, I think we largely agree. I just feel that the issue with Stevens is that he wasn't considered a dirty player...that he played hard but within the rules, and as such didn't need to defend himself.

The issue is as you say. The NHL needs to be policed better. The question becomes who is best suited to do just that. The players on the ice (e.g. dropping the instigator, re-entering the goon era) or the officials. It's clear that the officials, led by Campbell, can't do it. But I don't know that I trust the players, either (for evidence, look no farther than the Bertuzzi/Moore tragedy). It's a hard issue to address, and the biggest problem is the refusal by the NHL to address it in any meaningful way.

The wiener Brier's cheapsot cross-check to Hannan's face as he was celebrating a goal, injuring Hannan's neck and foring him to miss half the game, sadly will go unpunished. Laraque got the suspension because he's Laraque. If it was another hit by Ovie there would be no discussion whatsoever. Just like Brier getting away scott free. I still wish Stevens was around to smash that little french POS's face with a nice body check. And fark Hartnell.

Isn't the NBA the same way in their disciplinary practices? If you're more than a regular player (star, superstar), they treat you better? I find that disgusting. I really hope the NHL isn't pointed in that direction. That would really ruin the game for me.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: As for the scrums after big hits, it could be argued that those are a direct result of not allowing a goon to go out and instigate a fight without getting thrown out and suspended.

Sorry...neglected to address this. I think this goes back to the respect issue. A goon, in the historical sense, shouldn't be going after a guy who throws a clean hit! That's my contention with Stevens, etc. In Stevens' era, the goons protected the top players by making sure no one took liberties with them (kneeing, slew-footing, etc.). Going after a guy who threw a clean but hard hit was against the code. You don't attempt to pummel a defender who lays out your winger because some rookie blue-liner tossed an eye-to-ass pass to said winger and put him in a dangerous position.

That's not the case anymore, and I have a problem with that. Mitchell shouldn't have had to defend himself for his hit on Toews, and time was where he wouldn't have to.

flecsrogar: Isn't the NBA the same way in their disciplinary practices? If you're more than a regular player (star, superstar), they treat you better? I find that disgusting. I really hope the NHL isn't pointed in that direction. That would really ruin the game for me.

Yeah, yet another Bettman "improvement": Making the players bigger than the game. To illustrate my point see: Pronger, Chris.

Pituophis: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: As for the scrums after big hits, it could be argued that those are a direct result of not allowing a goon to go out and instigate a fight without getting thrown out and suspended.

Sorry...neglected to address this. I think this goes back to the respect issue. A goon, in the historical sense, shouldn't be going after a guy who throws a clean hit! That's my contention with Stevens, etc. In Stevens' era, the goons protected the top players by making sure no one took liberties with them (kneeing, slew-footing, etc.). Going after a guy who threw a clean but hard hit was against the code. You don't attempt to pummel a defender who lays out your winger because some rookie blue-liner tossed an eye-to-ass pass to said winger and put him in a dangerous position.

That's not the case anymore, and I have a problem with that. Mitchell shouldn't have had to defend himself for his hit on Toews, and time was where he wouldn't have to.

That's not the way I remember it...McSorley (Gretzky), Probert/Kocur (Yzerman), etc. would make you pay if you even hinted at taking a run at their stars. Maybe it was different pre-Gretzky, but I'm not old enough to remember that.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Making the players bigger than the game.

My wife dragged me to Hallmark over the weekend. Apparently we needed to pick out birthday cards for all my family who are having November birthdays that we're celebrating on Turkey Day. Anyways, Mrs. Pit wanted to look at their Christmas ornaments, so off we went. She starts laughing and points up on the tree...lo and behold (in a Hallmark nestled between Blackhawks and Blues country), there's an official NHL licensed hockey ornament. Sidney Farking Crosby. "Farking Bettman," I muttered and walked out.



/Wish the ornament would've featured him taint-punching an Atlanta Thrasher instead.
//Sorry for the threadjack

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: jdog71 Pitouphis

I may not have responded to everything...feel free to point out what I missed. Juggling coding and fark is hard work :)

Its funny (or sad) that we've had a more productive conversation on this subject in a Fark thread, while at work, than the league has had in total this season.

We definitely agree on the fact that the league needs to step to the plate here and become a more decisive, unwavering entity. As it stands right now, the punishments handed out are completely arbitrary. Some of the players are starting to become vocal about this, with the hope that the players will take it upon themselves to respect one another, but that doesn't seem to be happening at all. There's an underlying lack of respect with the current generation of players, as Pituophis said, and that's definitely where the problem starts.

If the league took a stronger position, I think the problem would be solved for the most part. How many bench clearers have you seen since the "10-game suspension and a fine of $10,000 for the first player to leave their bench" rule? Thats the type of decisive, no bullshiat rules they need to put in place. I just don't see that happening while fighting is just a 5 minute penalty. I think its time they reassess that and finally grow up as a league. Again, I have nothing against fighting for what it is and what it can bring to the game, I just think its become an institution in a game that is plenty violent without it, and the fact that they don't come down hard on it, or anything else for that matter, results in more of the nonsense see more and more frequently. Here are the factors as I see it:
Lack of respect for other players
Lack of decisive disciplinary actions by the league, with harsh penalties.
Fighting is allowed, and almost scripted at this point, which creates a kind of 'anything goes' atmosphere for some players.

Again, I believe that fighting has its time and place, and it can change momentum, inspire teams and fans etc., but its really becoming an unsustainable part of the game when you look at the whole picture.

Over_Zealously_Apathetic: That's not the way I remember it...McSorley (Gretzky), Probert/Kocur (Yzerman), etc. would make you pay if you even hinted at taking a run at their stars.

Pre-Gretzky was also before my time, but I've watched a lot of old footage. I seem to remember McSorley, Kocur, Probert, et al. primarily battling it out with one another. Most of the time their presence on the ice was enough to deter any shenannigans. I can't remember seeing them go after folks for throwing big hits (primarily because I can't really remember Gretz or Yzerman or Lemieux putting themselves in a position to get crushed...they were too smart to get caught).

Pituophis: Over_Zealously_Apathetic: Making the players bigger than the game.

My wife dragged me to Hallmark over the weekend. Apparently we needed to pick out birthday cards for all my family who are having November birthdays that we're celebrating on Turkey Day. Anyways, Mrs. Pit wanted to look at their Christmas ornaments, so off we went. She starts laughing and points up on the tree...lo and behold (in a Hallmark nestled between Blackhawks and Blues country), there's an official NHL licensed hockey ornament. Sidney Farking Crosby. "Farking Bettman," I muttered and walked out.



/Wish the ornament would've featured him taint-punching an Atlanta Thrasher instead.
//Sorry for the threadjack

This guy will be hanging from my tree this year:



My odd fascination with garden gnomes and my support for the Bruins really dovetailed on this one.

/still waiting for a Gerry Cheevers mask ornament

Katalyst: Good for BGL. Kronwall is a dirty, POS headhunter.

You're an ignorant farking moron. Kronwall hits hard but hits clean.

MIguy: You're an ignorant farking moron. Kronwall hits hard but hits clean.

Don't bother. This is the guy who posted pictures of Konstantinov's Limo during the post season last year.

MIguy: Katalyst: Good for BGL. Kronwall is a dirty, POS headhunter.

You're an ignorant farking moron. Kronwall hits hard but hits clean.



And you are a blind, retarded homer. There are Wings fans who are able to admit Kronwall is a dirty player. Pathetic sacks of shiat like you however, can't.

I hope Franzen is next.

jdog71:
/still waiting for a Gerry Cheevers mask ornament


Want, want, want...