The Lehigh Pub is going to farked because of this.

pgh9fan: The Lehigh Pub is going to farked because of this.

Ya they're gonna lose the important "people who walk out without paying their entire tab" demographic.

pgh9fan: The Lehigh Pub is going to farked because of this.

If this:

"They had to find their own napkins and cutlery while their waitress caught a smoke, had to ask the bar for soda refills, and had to wait over an hour for salad and wings"

is indicative of the service in that establishment, they deserve to be farked.

Yeah, good luck Lehigh Pub with business now. Bad word of mouth spreads faster than good.

jevman: pgh9fan: The Lehigh Pub is going to farked because of this.

Ya they're gonna lose the important "people who walk out without paying their entire tab" demographic.

The pub loses either way. Anybody who's ever had lousy service is going to sympathize with the couple, mandatory "gratuity" or not, and word-of-mouth on this one is going to be horrible. Then, there's this:

One issue that was brought up last week, and is mentioned in this article again, is that the gratuity worked out to about 22% of the bill, and not the 18% that the pub claimed.

The only time I've ever seen that place was during young alumni weekend for Lehigh, and it was packed out the door. Of course it was around midnight and people just wanted to drink. So, in conclusion, please ignore this comment.

some of the reviews on yelp are hysterical

Let me make this easy for the more dense among you: If a restaurant says the price of a burger is $10 in their menu, it's non-negotiable - regardless of whether you enjoy the burger or not. Correct? Now, you may ask for the objectionable burger to be removed from your bill - and the restaurant in question might OPT to remove that charge for the sake of your future business - but it is not YOUR RIGHT not to pay for that item. We hold these truths to be self-evident...although apparently, they're not...

The same goes for a stated surcharge for parties of whatever quantity the restaurant wants to levy a charge upon (be it 6, 8, or whatever). If it's printed in the menu - it's the same as printing the price of any other service or product that the establishment is providing. If you don't like that - leave - BEFORE you tacitly agree to the terms of the 'deal' you are engaging in. That's your right.

It is not your right to dispute an 'included gratuity' AFTER you've enjoyed (or not enjoyed) the service provided. That's called 'theft of services' or 'larceny' - petty as it may seem.

This is similar to what my father called 'The Hooker Principle'. The reason prostitutes get paid upfront (or so I'm told...;) is because the value of a service promised is far more than that of a service rendered. Restaurants are whorehouses. You don't get to negotiate after the fact. Deal with it.

This internet pitchfork and torch bearing mob is out of control, frothing at the mouth with a misplaced sense of outrage. Don't you all have some teabagging protests to be marching in somewhere?

Take a valium and go back to watching clips of dogs riding skateboards on Youtube. Or porn. That's what the internet is for... Not your misinformed, manufactured outrage and broadband lynchings directed at a place that - while not necessarily business savvy - is in the end: RIGHT.

PS I had a pint here yesterday, and their beer is as frosty as the tits on a snowman.

though i'll say this much - it doesn't appear that yelp is deleting the bad reviews, like they had been

Nabb1: is indicative of the service in that establishment, they deserve to be farked.

THIS.

I tip like a former waitress, and I'll sneak extra money onto the table if someone else is treating and only tips 20% if we've had good service. That said, nothing pisses me off more than a lazy waitperson who doesn't give good service simply because they already know they're getting tipped because of the number of people at the table. If all you do is write down our order and bring our food, well, you're getting hourly pay from the restaurant for that. If you want a tip you should at least check on the table and see if drinks need filled at least once.

I'm curious what the law is on that--normally a restaurant can't force you to tip, and I don't see why it would be any different just because they put it on the bill automatically.

Too bad this isn't posting until 5:21 - I'm in the mood for some good ole Fark tip wank, but I'll be away from the computer by then.

Then again, it will probably just be a replay of any other fark tipping thread.

-Mr. Pink picture/quotes
-complaints about the creep up from 10% to 15% to 18% to 20%
-"Now I'm usually a good tipper, but..." in the same spirit of "I'm not a racist, but..."
-TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service, and the ensuing snopes.com pwnage
-wistfully musing that everyone should have to work for a few months in a restaurant
-tales of vengeful waitstaff adding their own frosting and chowder to the dishes of bad tippers
-biatching about how my job as a cubicle monkey doesn't give me 15% more just for doing my job, even though I'm posting on fark 5 hours every day
-admonishing servers to "get a real job," not realizing that many are working so they can have money for school or as supplemental income to their "real" jobs
-customer tales of the worst service ever
-waiter tales of the worst customers ever
-patient explanations of tax withholding and tipout policies that are ignored
-linguistic exploration into the root of the word "gratuity"

and so on...

ne2d: I'm curious what the law is on that--normally a restaurant can't force you to tip, and I don't see why it would be any different just because they put it on the bill automatically.

If it's a college dive, maybe they include gratuity going in because college students by and large are terrible tippers, but if it's stated in advance there is a charge, then it is a bill for services rendered. That said, if what was described about the service was accurate, the sensible thing to do would have been to ask to speak to the manager and demand that the charge be removed with an explanation for the demand. Any manager with an ounce of sense would have removed it.

Nabb1: but if it's stated in advance there is a charge, then it is a bill for services rendered.

That's what I'm not so sure about. It reminds me of those signs you see on dump trucks that say "Stay back--not responsible for damaged windshields." That's BS--you are responsible if something flies out of your truck and you can't disclaim it just by posting a sign. Since the police here have dropped the charges, it makes me wonder if that "mandatory service charge" is similar BS.

Nabb1: ne2d: I'm curious what the law is on that--normally a restaurant can't force you to tip, and I don't see why it would be any different just because they put it on the bill automatically.

If it's a college dive, maybe they include gratuity going in because college students by and large are terrible tippers, but if it's stated in advance there is a charge, then it is a bill for services rendered. That said, if what was described about the service was accurate, the sensible thing to do would have been to ask to speak to the manager and demand that the charge be removed with an explanation for the demand. Any manager with an ounce of sense would have removed it.

the owner said that managers offered to comp the meal, but the patrons deny that happened. guess it depends on who you believe

TheKnownUniverse: Too bad this isn't posting until 5:21 - I'm in the mood for some good ole Fark tip wank, but I'll be away from the computer by then.

Then again, it will probably just be a replay of any other fark tipping thread.

just refer everyone to the first thread on this ;-)

Megain: the owner said that managers offered to comp the meal, but the patrons deny that happened. guess it depends on who you believe

I'm calling shenanigans. You don't offer to comp it. You just comp it. And you tell them that. And if they insist on paying something, take it. But then if you do, why call the cops if they pay less than the full amount?

Nabb1: Megain: the owner said that managers offered to comp the meal, but the patrons deny that happened. guess it depends on who you believe

I'm calling shenanigans. You don't offer to comp it. You just comp it. And you tell them that. And if they insist on paying something, take it. But then if you do, why call the cops if they pay less than the full amount?

yeah, that's the way i'm leaning too

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You do not DEMAND a tip. You earn it. simply existing does not immediately earn you a 20% gratuity.

That being said, I'm a good tipper. unless you fark something up.

Megain: just refer everyone to the first thread on this ;-)

Heh, I was reading that thread, then I left to go do something else. I came back, hit F5, and there were 300 more comments. Too much for me, man.

I recall reading somewhere (maybe it was that thread, but it might have been on Waiter Rant) that customers are obligated to pay if it is stated on the menu as a "service charge" rather than a gratuity. And apparently the problem there is that a service charge doesn't necessarily go to the server (although if the description of the waitress in the story is accurate, she certainly didn't deserve it anyway). I can't vouch for the accuracy of that statement, though.

Happy hour time (where I will tip generously)!

TheKnownUniverse: Happy hour time (where I will tip generously)!

drink one for me!

/make that two

ne2d: I'm curious what the law is on that--normally a restaurant can't force you to tip, and I don't see why it would be any different just because they put it on the bill automatically.

A tip is only to insure promptness. It is not law.

Nabb1: If it's a college dive, maybe they include gratuity going in because college students by and large are terrible tippers, but if it's stated in advance there is a charge, then it is a bill for services rendered.

Yes, but then it is a fee, not a gratuity, and Lehigh pub should be giving the IRS an appropriate cut.

If it's a gratuity, it's not mandatory. That's kind of how it works.

If it's a "service charge" so that you can make it mandatory, why don't you just pay your servers a decent wage from the get go? You're charging plenty to do so. Oh, it's so you can hose their take-home by taking 50% of the gratuity yourself, as the owner? Screw you.

Tipping is a system that exists because restaurant owners are stingy bastards. That's it. Name me one other profession where you get less than minimum wage in many places because your employer assumes his customers will be extra generous.

hot

OH and we're not paying you either, so..

Fark me but if I had to wait over an hour for wings I would have become the female version of the Incredible Hulk. I get really angry when I am hungry. I get that & my sick sense of humor from my father. Also, after seeing this happened in PA it does not surprise me one bit. There are pubs where you can wait an hour for food but that's only if its really crowded. For my wedding rehearsal I had to wait an hour for my food & it was at a really crowded sports bar & semi-formal resturant. Its a strange place to go to if you want to go to semi-formal side when its Sunday & the Steelers are playing.

"Lehigh Pub ex-manager William Sheehan said Monday it was "news to him" that the charges were being withdrawn."

FTFY

If it's a service charge call it that and earn it. The very idea of a "mandatory gratuity" is repulsive to me but it also leads to poor service.

The loss on a 22% tip: $18
The loss on the bad publicity: priceless

For those times you need to make an ass out of yourself there is DoucheCard. Accepted everywhere common sense isn't.

Sounds like the waitstaff didn't deserve a tip, but we weren't there and shouldn't judge. Oh wait, this is fark.
Carry on.

I know this has been covered before, but I don't understand how you can tack on a mandatory gratuity.

Im not inclined to be either party. They were both were complicit in jackassery I just hope they both learned from this. Oh, and what's up with mandatory tipping that americans seem to believe in? Screw that.

gshepnyc: If it's a service charge call it that and earn it. The very idea of a "mandatory gratuity" is repulsive to me but it also leads to poor service.

Fark whatever name you assign it. We all know how the tipping system works. A good waiter will provide good service and be compensated for it. If the planets are aligned properly I may just tip the HELL out of them. They automatically shortchange themselves (in my book) by adding 18% or whatever to the bill.

There's no room for such behavior at this inn.

I'm just here to say hi to all the other Lehigh folks.

/'96

gorgor: Jesus WAS Jewish.

no sh*t

I swear to Christ I'd end it all if I was the manager of The Lehigh Pub. I'm not even joking. This guy must have really farked up in a previous life.

TheKnownUniverse: -admonishing servers to "get a real job," not realizing that many are working so they can have money for school or as supplemental income to their "real" jobs

Hmm, somebody sounded rather defensive with that one

This makes no frankincense.

The Lehigh Pub will barely feel a tremor in revenues. I go to Lehigh University - it is 10 feet off campus, and "the spot" to go drink this year. College kids are it's main source of revenue, and on this campus it has been an interesting story to share, but there's been no "this is outrageous we are boycotting". The main demographic just doesn't care.

jestme: only tips 20% if we've had good service

Hold up... isn't 20% already a pretty solid tip? I mean, 15% is still normal for good service, right?

SWEET! Tipping thread. I have an hour more of work and zero inclination to do anything.

Lets get this started.

I try to tip around 15%, but I suck at math and end up with varying amounts between 10-20%. I put it on my credit card, not cash, and have left less than 5% for a tip when receiving bad service.

I did the math in the earlier thread.

If the restaurant had stuck by the $16 bill, the eight people should have pressed for $28.20 in back wages, I think it was.

Eight people working as waitstaff for an hour and a half are more valuable than a $16 gratuity.

ultraholland: gshepnyc: If it's a service charge call it that and earn it. The very idea of a "mandatory gratuity" is repulsive to me but it also leads to poor service.

Fark whatever name you assign it. We all know how the tipping system works. A good waiter will provide good service and be compensated for it. If the planets are aligned properly I may just tip the HELL out of them. They automatically shortchange themselves (in my book) by adding 18% or whatever to the bill.

Yeah, same with me in terms of shortchanging themselves. Since I don't tend to eat at places with terribly high prices anyway, a waiter is much better off taking a chance on my generosity than on a mandatory 18% added on and when it is added on as mandatory I refuse to go higher, even for good service. It's just too put-offish to call it gratuity when it functions as a surcharge.

Don't forget, the tip is for the amount before tax. I normally tip at 20% every time, and if the service is bad I might drop it to 10%.

ultraholland: I don't understand how you can tack on a mandatory gratuity.

Almost every restaurant does it when you get large parties (usually 6 people or more), and this is conspicuously posted on the menu.

If this bothers you, you should eat elsewhere, but see what i said earlier about almost every restaurant doing it.

It's basically to ensure that you don't bust ass on an 8 party table and then get farked afterwards. (And that includes the cook, etc, who are getting a cut of the tips)

pgh9fan: The Lehigh Pub is going to farked because of this.

You'd think so but it sounds like they're too busy to care about a few malcontents. I've seen places like this do booming business for years and years for no reason I can understand. Well, other than their customer base is generally drunk college students who don't give two shiats about service.

The only thing that surprises me is the fact that the manager of bar/restaurant has spent more than 30 seconds caring about the issue. They got a farking attorney involved? Really? Over a farking tip? Maybe if you put that effort into improving service, people would be more inclined to tip.

Megain: some of the reviews on yelp are hysterical

This is similar to what my father called 'The Hooker Principle'. The reason prostitutes get paid upfront (or so I'm told...;) is because the value of a service promised is far more than that of a service rendered. Restaurants are whorehouses. You don't get to negotiate after the fact. Deal with it.



You don't pay the hooker for sex. You pay her to leave afterwards...

The Fark tax-accountants can cool it with the issue of taxing a service charge. I don't think any state has sales tax on labor, which is what a service charge is. It will force the waiter to declare more tips as revenue though.

All this did was advertise this business as having both bad service and bad management. In a recession, quality service = customer retention. Personally, I think the manager was schtuping the waitress while she was supposed to be waiting on these people. It would explain the reaction and why there was bad service to begin with.

gshepnyc: a waiter is much better off taking a chance on my generosity than on a mandatory 18% added on and when it is added on as mandatory I refuse to go higher

Because the waiter totally determines the way the business is operated, and they should be punished for it, amirite?

Seriously, though. If waiters and waitresses don't like the ridiculously low pay rate and the reliance on customer's kindness for their paycheck, they're free to get other work.

If they can make more on tips waiting than they would in another job, they can stop their whining already.

Relying on tips for your income is one very small step away from busking on the street. Some buskers are incredibly talented, and you might be a ridiculously good server, but you're still relying on the charity of others to make your wage. You chose to get into that racket, complaining about the assumed percentage who won't cough up just makes you greedy and stupid.

Worst service I ever got was at a coffee house on Capitol Hill in Seattle. The baristas were very snotty, and when I got up to use the men's room one of them actually yelled at me for not bussing my own table (he thought I was leaving I suppose). Well, that's not exactly service, more like abuse.

Place went out of business later.