on a positive note, there are open positions now, if someone is looking for a job. More openings are expected in the next few months.

I've worked in a (former) multinational company. Europeans really, really don't take layoffs well. It's hard to get a job, and once you have one you hope it lasts forever. They are used to being looked after.

Did you say "work hard?" We surrender!

--France

The article says the country average is 16/100,000. The company's average is 17.6/100,000. Looks like they are just about average to me.

A suicide rate 10% above the national average hardly seems like an epidemic.

If I understand the numbers in the article correctly, there have been 26 suicides in the company in the last 18 months, corresponding to a rate of 17.6 per 100,000.

If the company was at the national average (16 per 100,000), that would be 24 suicides per 100,000. Isn't that well within any sort of margin of error you might assume?

Rozinante: I've worked in a (former) multinational company. Europeans really, really don't take layoffs well. It's hard to get a job, and once you have one you hope it lasts forever. They are used to being looked after.

Plus there are no boot straps on Euro loafers.

"In France, the suicide rate is 16 suicides per 100,000. At France Telecom, it is 17.6. "

Um, what is the point of this article of the rate at this company is nearly dead-on average for the country?

er...24 suicides in the last 18 months, not per 100,000

if

Former very large multinational corporation employee, and all I can say is WAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa, get over it you cheese monkies.

Nothing like an article that conveniently provides the evidence necessary to dismiss it as a gross exaggeration.

/it's not news, it's CBS News

Splat313: The article says the country average is 16/100,000. The company's average is 17.6/100,000. Looks like they are just about average to me.

Yeah, but I'd bet that the average among comparably full-time, white-collar employed people is more like 12 or 13/100,000.

Try Broward Co.School system for about 28 years. I just about off myself everyday.

/oh yeah,I'm a donkey on the edge

My father works for a telecom company, so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies.

/US firm
//telecommutes

All mimes just seem French to me. Am I the only one on this?
/hot

Maybe I'm just being insensitive, but I cannot fathom the mind of a person who would commit suicide because of problems at work. Why not quit? Join the circus? Find some rich foreigner who will take you as their trophy wife? It seems to me that these people committed suicide because of some serious mental and emotional issues they had going on. Perhaps these issues were amplified by difficulty at work, but there is difficulty and stress in almost any job. I truly cannot accept that death is really the only good alternative to a desk job at some multinational corporation.

Damn, at least try a few things before you off yourself because your work life sucks. Try a life of crime, it might suit you!

A job is never something to kill yourself over. I'm in a horrible company right now that flat out told me I didn't matter to them at all and that they were reneging on all of the promises they made me when they were persuading me to leave my last job and come work for them. But you know what? Instead of just crying and killing myself I'm telling them to screw off by getting myself another job. And they're totally furious that I'm leaving (not that I'm irreplaceable, quite the contrary they've made me so replaceable it's not even funny). I would never give those bastards the satisfaction of my life, they would more than likely come to my funeral and piss in my open casket if they had the chance. Just suck it up and get another freakin' job!

France Telecom is undergoing a major restructuring with the goal of cutting $2.25 billion in expenses. But as the company strives to save money, it's losing employees to an epidemic of suicide, CBS News correspondent Sheila MacVicar reports from Paris.

The money saving plan seems to be working.

nytmare: "In France, the suicide rate is 16 suicides per 100,000. At France Telecom, it is 17.6. "

Um, what is the point of this article of the rate at this company is nearly dead-on average for the country?

FTFA: "Work is usually not the reason for suicide. But in the case of France Telecom, many of those who have committed or attempted suicide have directly blamed the company and its management for creating working conditions that have made their lives intolerable.

The suicides and dozens of attempts are happening all over the French network. Suicide notes tell similar stories, blaming constant pressure to resign, impossible goals, frequent forced relocations and chaotic reorganization."

I might just try to find another job baking baguettes, smelly cheese manufacturing or not bathing.

FTFA: "But suicide attempts at the company continue and no one thinks these measures will put an end to this epidemic any time soon."

And there's the problem. Stop committing suicide and start committing homicides against upper management. Killing a few of them might get their attention.

Or you could, you know, smoke a couple of fatties and relax. Why kill yourself or anyone else over a job?

Yeah, I'm going to need you to fill in for Jean, and Claude and Jacques, they'll be at Jean's funeral, so I'm going to need you to cover for them too, yeah... And if you could finish up those reports by tonight instead of Wednesday, I'd really appreciate it, m'kay?

I guess the French never heard the that song by a bunch of wannabe "revolutionary" rappers:

Well I hope you testify that it was worth your waitin
On the turf debatin how to get it percolatin
He workin you while we happy just to work a day
But I'ma slap him 'til my blood starts circulatin
Do you checks have elasticity?
Did they cut off yo' 'lectricity?
Did you scream and yell explicitly?
Force the boss into complicity
I'm a white chalk stencil but I push a pencil
Rollin dope fiend rentals through your residential
Broke as fark, eatin lentils with no utensil
Finna teach pimp class with a hoe credential
They own sweats shops, pet cops and fields of cola
Murder babies with they molars on the areola
Control the Pope, Dali Lama, Holy Rollers, and the Ayatollah
Bump this rollin in your bucket or your new Corolla
Well you might catch me on the scenic route, with my penis out
Yellin, "Twamps for the executives with the meanest mouth!"
Wanna know what this demeanor's bout? City tried to clean us out
Green is clout, shut 'em down they ain't never seen a drought
You interviewed but they ain't callin you back
And for the record I ain't called it a gat
But tuck this in the small of your back
Wait in the bathroom stall 'til I tap

'Cept this game ain't slow, it's the creeper
If you a janitor, get a street sweeper
Ugly is even skin deeper
If you can't get the Pres, get the VeePer
They made the murder scene before there was a coroner
I mighta been born here but I'm a foreigner
Spillin swigs for victims of pigs and Afeni's kid
Flip off the lid, who you pourin fo'?
You too could be a corporate green killer, bean spiller, uhh
"Gangster of Love" just like Steve Miller
They wear skivvies that's made of chinchilla
Factory in Mexico, bought a spring villa
I'm from the land where the Panthers grew
You know the city and the avenue
If you the boss we'll be smabbin through, and we'll be grabbin you
To say, "Whassup with the ra-venue?"

Tell him it's a boom in child prostitution
When he show up at the stroll give him lead restitution
You could throw a twenty in a vat 'o hot oil
When he jump in after it watch him boil
Toss a dollar in the river and when he jump in
If you can find he can swim
put lead boots on him and do it again! You and a friend
Videotape and the party don't end
Tell that boogers be sellin like crack
He gon' put the little baggies in his nose, and suffocate like that
Put a fifty in the barrel of a gun
When he try to suck it out, a-ha, well you know this one
Make sure you ain't got no priors
Don't tell 'em that we conspired
We could let him try to change a flat tire
Or we could all at once retire

ParaHandy: A suicide rate 10% above the national average hardly seems like an epidemic.

this.

16 vs 17.6 per 100k.Selfish bastards!
In France, the suicide rate is 16 suicides per 100,000. At France Telecom, it is 17.6.

BigRightRear: Try Broward Co.School system for about 28 years. I just about off myself everyday.

/oh yeah,I'm a donkey on the edge

Quit whining...Seriously. You have a job at least.

Of you don't like it kill you self. But make sure to do it all gussied up. Wearing women's lingerie and a shotgun.

a deliberate management strategy that has led to suicide.


I've heard of evil corporate management and outsourcing strategies, but I don't think even Palpatine's Empire could be so ruthless and cunning as to drive its employees to suicide. Besides, if you ruthlessly and cunningly drive the wrong employees over the edge, you'd have to train and rehire more people instead of fewer, and that wouldn't save you any money at all.

snugglyhugs: I think that's twice as many as died defending France in WWII!

French military killed in WW2= 217,600
Total deaths = 567,600

Representing 1.35% of their total population. (as at 1939, which is when THEY started trying to defend against the threats to world democracies)

US loss to WW2 ? 0.32%

Yea those Frenchies totally lucked out on that whole WW2 thing.

I blame the fascist whackobs, the nazis, and all those friendly gentlemen who were supposed to be on our side, that bankrolled the nazi rise to power.

Gyrfalcon: train and rehire more people instead of fewer, and that wouldn't save you any money at all

it does, if they are union :-)

skippytheferret: Wearing women's lingerie and a shotgun

Im assuming there is already a website for this right ?

Has anyone had the impression that the US had a high suicide rate? It seems that I've heard things such as "that's why there's such a high suicide rate in the US" and the like. It seems it's pretty low though.

there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

This is whats going to happen when we get Health Care.

liquid_love: All mimes just seem French to me. Am I the only one on this?
/hot

I can see the mindset that leads to this.

* Have large mortgage
* Stress at work is Large, management are restructuring, so you may be out of a job, or they are preasuring you to resign, or everyone has lost their job and you are doing their work as well
* France telecom I think is a monopoly and you have only ever workd for them, or worked for a significant amount of time, so prospective employers will look upong that as a negative (too institutionalised is the thinking of the HR people)

Now these things may not be real, but these are the things that may be on their mind. How to get out of them. Well you could resign, but getting a job willl be dificult, if not close on impossible, depending on you education and work experience. A lot of guys invest a lot in what they do as defining them. If you dont have a job or income what are you? These things can be a powerful driver.

Dont ask me how I know this....

Suicide rate seems low, having to be around all those rude, smelly pricks.

I don't see what the problem is. All jobs are designed to crush the soul.

on a more interesting note, the suicide rate in France is 45% higher then in the US

France Telecom has an office in our building. I will have to keep an eye out for those guys.

Well, based on what I have seen about French labor law, getting workers to commit suicide may be the only way to get rid of them.

WAH.

The average utilization rate in Europe is something like 1800 hours a year. In the US it's well over 2000. You figure in the amount of time French people save by not bathing, and they have more free time than most Americans know what to do with.

Cry me a river of Beaujolais, you snooty, racist, lazy Moor-boors.

For those who look at the stats of 16 suicide per 100K and 17.6 at the french telecom, understand that the issue isn't just the number of suicides, but the cause of the suicides. Generally speaking most suicides are not work related. The majority of these are. That's the problem, and the point trying to be made.

Studies show that higher levels of work stress make men at greater risk for heart attacks, cause more more frequent and longer spells of absenteeism due to illness, greater risk of mental health issues, more frequent use of drugs (legal and not legal) as well as alchohol, not to mention lower productivity. Note that many jobs are stressful, but many jobs are **needlessly** stressful because of incompetance by management be it local or higher ups.

In Europe, suicide is more common then in the US. So the anti-French comments are out of place. In Europe suicide is seen as a way of expressing discontent with a situation. Also realize that in Europe a person's job is more closely tied to the sense of self as people often work in the same job for decades. In the US we pretty much expect to be working somewhere else in 5 years. The idea of a spending your life as a career employee is now a quaint memory for most US workers. So when management ina US company sets you up to fail by creating unattainable goals, forcing you to do work you don't know how to do, moving you out of state because they can and managing thru terror, you say "fark this place" and quit. Not so in Europe. Thus more then half the suicides specifically refer to the work environment as the cause.

I think you "get a job" folks are missing the point, that to Europeans a job is an entire life. Not as easily swapped out. It basically determines your station, your housing, your friends (depending on where you are), etc.

Also with the percentages.... even if it's a few more people than the national average (and I'm not sure the company employs 100,000, but it's possible), that's significant. Unless there's a shooting spree.

Which is, in fact, the only grumpy idea in here that sounded reasonable. If corporate culture is doing it, absolutely, off the management!

Slartibartfaster:
French military killed in WW2= 217,600
Total deaths = 567,600

Representing 1.35% of their total population. (as at 1939, which is when THEY started trying to defend against the threats to world democracies)

US loss to WW2 ? 0.32%

Yea those Frenchies totally lucked out on that whole WW2 thing.

I blame the fascist whackobs, the nazis, and all those friendly gentlemen who were supposed to be on our side, that bankrolled the nazi rise to power.

Interesting that you only show the US Military deaths as a percentage. Very interesting.

I'll support that the average French soldier has been no more nor less brave than any other average soldier. Their leadership, however, sucks balls. The invested in a defensive line that was relatively easy to just go around, didn't have a good plan to set up multiple lines of defense, were unable to adapt, and then capitulated. As I recall, some of their leadership in the ME defected around WWI, too. The simple fact is that, due to their crappy leadership, they've not won except under someone else's leadership or when allied with others.

Elektrohed: I think you "get a job" folks are missing the point, that to Europeans a job is an entire life. Not as easily swapped out. It basically determines your station, your housing, your friends (depending on where you are), etc.

Also with the percentages.... even if it's a few more people than the national average (and I'm not sure the company employs 100,000, but it's possible), that's significant. Unless there's a shooting spree.

Which is, in fact, the only grumpy idea in here that sounded reasonable. If corporate culture is doing it, absolutely, off the management!
Or, you know, get better at your job. Make your company competitive. Become more efficient.

Or get another job.

micah1701 2009-11-22 09:55:44 PM
on a more interesting note, the suicide rate in France is 45% higher then in the US

We are talking about the French, isn't suicide the ultimate surrender?

You know you can fold a French flag so only the white shows.

zahadum party planner: So the anti-French comments are out of place.

No such thing. Anti-French comments are some of the truest statement ever made by man.


/one of my neighbors is French
//possibly one of the nicest people I know

ronaprhys: Slartibartfaster:
French military killed in WW2= 217,600
Total deaths = 567,600

Representing 1.35% of their total population. (as at 1939, which is when THEY started trying to defend against the threats to world democracies)

US loss to WW2 ? 0.32%

Yea those Frenchies totally lucked out on that whole WW2 thing.

I blame the fascist whackobs, the nazis, and all those friendly gentlemen who were supposed to be on our side, that bankrolled the nazi rise to power.

Interesting that you only show the US Military deaths as a percentage. Very interesting.

I'll support that the average French soldier has been no more nor less brave than any other average soldier. Their leadership, however, sucks balls. The invested in a defensive line that was relatively easy to just go around, didn't have a good plan to set up multiple lines of defense, were unable to adapt, and then capitulated. As I recall, some of their leadership in the ME defected around WWI, too. The simple fact is that, due to their crappy leadership, they've not won except under someone else's leadership or when allied with others.

Sorta this. I mean c'mon, Spanish anarchist militias were more effective, even if they did lose.