That's actually pretty awesome. Well done, Virginia.

Jay-Z has his own lane on the Interstate?

Capt. Tracy Russillo, commander of the state police Fairfax Division, called the presence of HOV violators on 395 and 95 "the number one complaint" received by police in Northern Virginia.

There is no crime in N. Va.? Or the people are just whiners? (The two are not mutually exclusive.)

The travel-time difference between the HOV and regular lanes can be hours on a bad day, and some have described HOV violations as a calculated risk.

If I save an hour getting into the city to a job that pays $100 per hour, I win if the chance of getting caught is under 10%.

They are talking about turning HOV lanes into "HOT" lanes -- high occupancy or toll. You automatically get billed a few dollars if you don't have the right number of occupants. A slang name for such facilities is "Lexus Lanes."

ZAZ: They are talking about turning HOV lanes into "HOT" lanes -- high occupancy or toll. You automatically get billed a few dollars if you don't have the right number of occupants. A slang name for such facilities is "Lexus Lanes."

HOT Lanes means High Occuppancy OR Toll Lanes. It's a new approach to congestion management.HOT Lanes price will vary depending on how many vehicles are attempting to access them. The price mechanism is what keeps them flowing freely (per the federal mandate, should the 95/395 HOT Lanes ever get built.)

Yes, you're billed (through a trasponder) if you have 2 or fewer persons in your vehicle, but you don't ever have to get on them if you don't want to. The General Purpose lanes will always still be there, but there will be more and more free-flowing traffic on them because of the multi-occupancy vehicles that will be drawn to HOT Lanes.

They're already building HOT Lanes from the Springfield Interchange to just north of the Dulles Toll Road on I-495 in Fairfax County, VA.

Grats.

Do either of the Virginia drivers who actually give two shiats about traffic laws live in NoVA?

HOV lanes piss me off. Why not just open the lane to regular traffic so everyone can go faster?

eddyatwork: HOV lanes piss me off. Why not just open the lane to regular traffic so everyone can go faster?

Yes... it's as though they're trying to encourage commuters to carpool...

NoVA deserves traffic problems. The suburban sprawl which has moved further and further away from DC has done nothing but waste land and create gridlock. There are very affordable areas to live in within a short distance of Metro and bus lines, but people think they have to live away from the congestion. Fredericksburg should not be a suburb of D.C.; it's a manifestation of decades of poor population growth habits.

Larry Mahnken: eddyatwork: HOV lanes piss me off. Why not just open the lane to regular traffic so everyone can go faster?

Yes... it's as though they're trying to encourage commuters to carpool...

They act as if that is practical. My husband and I used to work about 10 mins. apart. We would often share one car, with one dropping the other off/picking up. Now, I work half an hour in the opposite direction; it would be completely impractical and put more wear-and-tear/mileage on whichever car we used.

Nobody I work with (it's a small office, and people come from different places) lives up this way. Thankfully, I work slightly off-hours because we do so much business with the West Coast and don't hit traffic, but carpooling is not always even remotely an option for people.

*shrug* Not that we have HOV lanes up here, either way....

serpent_sky: Larry Mahnken: eddyatwork: HOV lanes piss me off. Why not just open the lane to regular traffic so everyone can go faster?

Yes... it's as though they're trying to encourage commuters to carpool...

They act as if that is practical. My husband and I used to work about 10 mins. apart. We would often share one car, with one dropping the other off/picking up. Now, I work half an hour in the opposite direction; it would be completely impractical and put more wear-and-tear/mileage on whichever car we used.

Nobody I work with (it's a small office, and people come from different places) lives up this way. Thankfully, I work slightly off-hours because we do so much business with the West Coast and don't hit traffic, but carpooling is not always even remotely an option for people.

*shrug* Not that we have HOV lanes up here, either way....

Ladies and gentlemn, the only person in the world.

UNC_Samurai: NoVA deserves traffic problems. The suburban sprawl which has moved further and further away from DC has done nothing but waste land and create gridlock. There are very affordable areas to live in within a short distance of Metro and bus lines, but people think they have to live away from the congestion. Fredericksburg should not be a suburb of D.C.; it's a manifestation of decades of poor population growth habits.

Where are some of these affordable areas?

What? He couldn't afford a couple of mannequins?

serpent_sky: ...completely impractical and put more wear-and-tear/mileage on whichever car we used...Nobody I work with (it's a small office, and people come from different places) lives up this way....

Sorry, we didn't know about your situation when the roads were built. We'll correct that right away! Thanks for letting us know!!!

This just in: Repeat offenses get more severe punishments.

Stay tuned, Michael Jackson is still dead! More at 11!

serpent_sky: carpooling is not always even remotely an option for people.

That's true, but it is an option for many, if they're willing to add a bit of time to their commute by picking someone up. The problem is, most are too lazy to organize something like this, and so you have frequent congestion. HOV lanes help you, the person who can't carpool, by incentivising other people to carpool and thus de-congest the single occupancy lanes.

I think the problem is that the incentive is too soft. On a four lane highway, during peak hours, 2 of the lanes should be HOV. Watch how quickly people will scramble to put together carpool groups.

cxl9: What? He couldn't afford a couple of mannequins?

That's so impersonal.

He/she is probably one of those aholes that crowd the luggage belts.

Is a fine like this really all that necessary? Honest question. What kind of possible justification could they have for a $1000 fine for not having another person in the car? I mean, I understand it is the first ticket like this, but really, a fine this steep for something as trivial as an HOV lane violation just seems like highway robbery.

/MD driver living in DE
//DE drivers suck 100x more than VA

snugglyhugs: serpent_sky: carpooling is not always even remotely an option for people.

In that case you should drive in one of the other lanes, one that's not an HOV lane.

It's not complicated.

I love it when people say things like, "I can't carpool, I can't use public transportation, I *have* to have my car!!". That's never true, you're just unwilling to put the effort in. I can guarantee that there's an option, if she wanted to find it.

Troggie42: a fine this steep for something as trivial as an HOV lane violation just seems like highway robbery.

It'll help pay for free health care.

Troggie42: Is a fine like this really all that necessary? Honest question. What kind of possible justification could they have for a $1000 fine for not having another person in the car? I mean, I understand it is the first ticket like this, but really, a fine this steep for something as trivial as an HOV lane violation just seems like highway robbery.

/MD driver living in DE
//DE drivers suck 100x more than VA

getting caught 4 times in one year? I really don't think 1k is that unreasonable. 1 time, ok, you screwed up. 2 times, maybe you screwed up twice in different areas. 3 times, you're a dumbass. By the 4th time, there really isn't any excuse for getting caught driving in a HOV lane.

UNC_Samurai: NoVA deserves traffic problems. The suburban sprawl which has moved further and further away from DC has done nothing but waste land and create gridlock. There are very affordable areas to live in within a short distance of Metro and bus lines, but people think they have to live away from the congestion. Fredericksburg should not be a suburb of D.C.; it's a manifestation of decades of poor population growth habits.

Please, U_N_C point out, in your infinite wisdom, where these places exist...and what does 'short distance mean'? You can take a f'ing metro bus from Centreville to anywhere else you can get a Metro transfer..not very convenient...last time I checked that area wasn't very affordable...douche...

Three people?

I thought you only had to have two people in the car to use an HOV lane?

serpent_sky:
They act as if that is practical. My husband and I used to work about 10 mins. apart. We would often share one car, with one dropping the other off/picking up. Now, I work half an hour in the opposite direction; it would be completely impractical and put more wear-and-tear/mileage on whichever car we used.


Yeah, because you don't qualify for it, let's scrap the idea completely!

If more people carpooled, there would be less cars on the highways, which would make the regular lanes less congested as well.

They had this here in Seattle for years with 3 person carpool, didn't work worth a fark; changed it to 2 people, works awesome.

I was at a conference last week and the featured speaker did a presentation on 'social capital' and how societies work best on a premise of mutual trust.

The most interesting thing he mentioned was an off-handed idea his research team had - that people who repeatedly break traffic laws should be made high profile targets for tax audit. Since they don't feel they have to follow the traffic laws we all abide by, they probably don't think they have to pay their fair share of taxes, either.

Bet the guy in TFA is a tax dodge, too.

server first

I didn't realize so many people enjoyed carpooling and public transportation so much!

ZAZ: Capt. Tracy Russillo, commander of the state police Fairfax Division, called the presence of HOV violators on 395 and 95 "the number one complaint" received by police in Northern Virginia.

If I save an hour getting into the city to a job that pays $100 per hour, I win if the chance of getting caught is under 10%.
"

Do you work a longer day if you get caught? Because a 40 hour week is a 40 hour week whether or not you sit in traffic for 10 or 20 hours.

harryjr: UNC

Yes, I would also like to know. I moved out of the DC metro area because I couldnt afford to live close to work. I could live out in Fredricksburg but there's no way I want to go through that commute every day.

snugglyhugs: I mean, I get that sometimes someone needs to go somewhere and there is no practical way to carpool. I used to work the night shift at a hotel and nobody else needed a ride to anywhere near my workplace at midnight on Tuesday, and I was the only one working the shift...

ug. Ok, you may have a point there. I'm not sure I'd want to take the bus at midnight, depending on the area you're in. but people DO do it.

snugglyhugs:
But I just drive one of the other 3 lanes provided to me.

I do not not see the problem.

In addition, when driving my car around town I do not drive in the bicycle lane.

This also does not anger me

eheheheheh.

So, if he got a $1000 ticket for violating the HOV lane law, what does VA do to drunk drivers, red light runners and those who cause car wrecks because they're texting while driving?

While driving to work the other day, I noticed in my rear view mirror that nearly every car in the HOV lane next to me had no one in the passenger seat. This wasn't a lane with an optional toll for single drivers - this was a carpool-only lane. I suppose that there could have been kids in the back of some of those cars since I couldn't see the back seats (would that count?) but in the time I was paying attention to this 15-20 cars must have passed me and maybe 2 or 3 of them had a passenger.

rat_brain_flies_plane: I didn't realize so many people enjoyed carpooling and public transportation so much!

I've had 5 different places of work, excluding babysitting gigs.
Of them, I've taken public transportation to one, and biked to two. The other was my first job in high school, and I carpooled with my brother. The one I'm currently working at, I could take public transit to, but because of my odd work hours, I would end up with a very difficult schedule. This job is part time for 9 months, otherwise I would find a more permanent solution.

rat_brain_flies_plane: I didn't realize so many people enjoyed carpooling and public transportation so much!

Roads are not an infinite resource. They cost a lot of money to build and maintain, not to mention other social and environmental costs. HOV lanes are an attempt to incentivize more efficient use of this resource. They are, in essence, a non-monetary toll, and the price you pay is the inconvenience of having to sort out a car pool. If you don't want to pay that price, then you can choose to pay the price of congestion - it's really up to you.

In this story, a guy was caught 4 times in the HOV lanes illegal - he was, in essence, evading the toll of using those lanes, and because he was a repeat offender, he was given a stiff fine.

traffic fines only affect middle/working class drivers.

fining jay-z or someone with the dollars would be like fining a middle class person 2 cents.

it would be meaningless to fine a millionaire 1000 bucks.

Larry Mahnken: eddyatwork: HOV lanes piss me off. Why not just open the lane to regular traffic so everyone can go faster?

Yes... it's as though they're trying to encourage commuters to carpool...

If government programs actually worked, maybe it would be a different story.

ZAZ: Capt. Tracy Russillo, commander of the state police Fairfax Division, called the presence of HOV violators on 395 and 95 "the number one complaint" received by police in Northern Virginia.

There is no crime in N. Va.? Or the people are just whiners? (The two are not mutually exclusive.)

Not only is there crime, I find it hard to believe that HOV violations are the number one complaint even of simple traffic related issues. Driving with head up ass is prevalent, even expected around here. I'd far rather the cops spend their time "cracking down" on people changing lanes without signaling, not keeping right except to pass, merging into highway traffic at 40 MPH, etc. etc. etc.

The travel-time difference between the HOV and regular lanes can be hours on a bad day, and some have described HOV violations as a calculated risk.

If I save an hour getting into the city to a job that pays $100 per hour, I win if the chance of getting caught is under 10%.

They are talking about turning HOV lanes into "HOT" lanes -- high occupancy or toll. You automatically get billed a few dollars if you don't have the right number of occupants. A slang name for such facilities is "Lexus Lanes."

They're building them on the Beltway, but this article was referencing I95/I395, and I don't know that that's planned there.

If they did go that route, they'd become just like any other lane, unless the toll was ludicrously expensive - traffic sucks that badly here.

/pays to take the Dulles Toll Road to work every day, because there are no viable alternatives

Katie98_KT: snugglyhugs: serpent_sky: carpooling is not always even remotely an option for people.

In that case you should drive in one of the other lanes, one that's not an HOV lane.

It's not complicated.

I love it when people say things like, "I can't carpool, I can't use public transportation, I *have* to have my car!!". That's never true, you're just unwilling to put the effort in. I can guarantee that there's an option, if she wanted to find it.

So not only are you judging people for their personal choices, you are now purporting to have perfect knowledge of their lives and to know what is possible or best for them under their own individual circumstances.

You sound like a statist control freak. You'd make a very effective state legislator.

snugglyhugs: Katie98_KT: I love it when people say things like, "I can't carpool, I can't use public transportation, I *have* to have my car!!". That's never true, you're just unwilling to put the effort in. I can guarantee that there's an option, if she wanted to find it.

I mean, I get that sometimes someone needs to go somewhere and there is no practical way to carpool. I used to work the night shift at a hotel and nobody else needed a ride to anywhere near my workplace at midnight on Tuesday, and I was the only one working the shift...

But I just drive one of the other 3 lanes provided to me.

I do not not see the problem.

In addition, when driving my car around town I do not drive in the bicycle lane.

This also does not anger me

During rush hour, the highway in question does. not. move.

I was on I-66 headed away from the city last night, passenger in car commented "where are all these people going?" and I replied that it was just normal traffic. She commented that it was worse than rush hour traffic in most cities. She was probably right.

I am not defending using the HOV lanes improperly, but it's certainly an understandable violation. Even in the middle of the day, simply going to Quantico and back pretty much kills your whole day.

There's just too many damn people here, none of whom live where they work, apparently.

/one of those people
//picked a house equidistant between my work and the girl's work

I'll bet if we had outrageous fines for everything, crime would stop completely. The poor couldn't afford to break the law.

Katie98_KT: I love it when people say things like, "I can't carpool, I can't use public transportation, I *have* to have my car!!". That's never true, you're just unwilling to put the effort in. I can guarantee that there's an option, if she wanted to find it.

Personally, I don't carpool because I want to be good at my job. When shiat hits the fan and I need to stay until 8 p.m., I unwilling to say "tell the client to wait until tomorrow because my carpool is coming." I guarantee that whatever money I could save by carpooling is far surpassed by the extra money I earn by being able to stay past 5 when necessary.

/Sometimes leaves early too

Solty Dog: I'll bet if we had outrageous fines for everything, crime would stop completely. The poor couldn't afford to break the law.

Yeah, just like how speeding tickets have stopped speeding. Nobody speeds anymore. Ever.

First rule of local government: even when it's not about revenue enhancement, it's about revenue enhancement.

Who will protect the occupantally challenged?

I spent 2 1/2 hrs to go 40 miles repeatedly, Just outside Fairfax where 50 and 66 come together where the beltway starts is the worst traffic congestion I have seen in the entire country, and the beltway itself, just WOW

The way people drive out here is just insane, there is no rhyme or reason to 90% of the shiat people pull in their cars around here;
People that stay in the right most lane of 3 lane road, trying to kill traffic merging from on-ramps while the middle lane and left most are EMPTY.
People that pass on the right;
People in the leftmost lane (fast lane? or passing lane) doing 45 in 65...

I seriously almost have an aneurysm every time I have to go to D.C. for any job, or FSM forbid the other side of DC in MD....

I lived in Springfield and worked on 16th Street. 395 was the only way in. Stopped at the slug line every morning when it was HOV 3. It wasn't difficult to pick up riders.

It appears that the offender in question valued their privacy/ego over simply following the law.

I'll see that and raise it a $1,000

numbone: Who will protect the occupantally challenged?

Just kill a couple of hobos and strap them in the backseat.

cxl9: What? He couldn't afford a couple of mannequins?

Some places are planning infrared cameras to distinguish living from artificial passengers.

hosalabad

Right, it's not quite as straightforward as I made it. But if I'm a consultant making $100 per hour that's an estimate of what my time is worth. If I'm paid hourly and want time for life and refuse to spend more than X hours per week in work-related activities, that time does come out of my billable hours. Otherwise it's an estimate of how much quality of life I lose by spending extra time in work-related activities.

There is a standard estimate of value of time lost in traffic jams: around $15 per hour. In that expensive area they ought to use a higher figure. When the government rolls out huge figures for cost of accidents due to this weeks traffic ticket target, they are counting how much time people spend stuck in traffic jams.