Token gesture. Dems need to grow a pear.

meh. It's the Cloture vote that matters.

I doubt they'll get the votes so I hope Reid grows a pair of farking mansacks and forces the right to actually filibuster.

This whole

"We're going to Filibuster"

"Oh OK then we won't try thing" is lame.

Make the Insurance company paid representatives stand there and read the damn phone book for a month. Make them look like jackasses for once.

This was never the big vote anyway. If someone's going to make the killshot, it's not going to be on the start-debate vote. It'll be on the cloture vote.

They're already going to have enough attention on them as it is if they kill the bill. Making a vote that says "I don't even want to discuss it" in addition to everything else is just needlessly inflammatory.

guinnessfanatic: Make the Insurance company paid representatives stand there and read the damn phone book for a month. Make them look like jackasses for once.

Besides, if they can't take it anymore and all have to go to the bathroom, you win anyway. That's how Huey Long lost his filibuster. That's how Strom Thurmond lost his.

It's not your mouth that sustains a filibuster. It's your bladder. Your bladder will obey for a day at the most.

guinnessfanatic: meh. It's the Cloture vote that matters.

This vote was important too. The bill could have been submarined here. This doesn't guarantee cloture, but it does mean Harry Reid actually pulled his caucus together. That is a good sign for getting cloture done too.

Gosling:

It's not your mouth that sustains a filibuster. It's your bladder. Your bladder will obey for a day at the most.

Depends.

meh---another whore for the 'Let's make sure the so-called 'private insurance market' gets funded' fraud.

EponymousCowHerd: This vote was important too. The bill could have been submarined here. This doesn't guarantee cloture, but it does mean Harry Reid actually pulled his caucus together. That is a good sign for getting cloture done too.

Well, Reid knows what's at stake for him personally. He's trailing by double digits to a complete no-namer last I saw. He's running the full-on re-election campaign blitz NOW, a year out. He knows full well that his political career depends on him getting this bill to Obama's desk. He knows that if this bill dies, he might as well concede his race right here and now.

Basically, his re-election depends on him nutting up just this once.

Gosling: Basically, his re-election depends on him nutting up just this once.

He should borrow Nancy's.

nirwana: Dems need to grow a pear.

Or a tasty apricot.

nirwana: Gosling:

It's not your mouth that sustains a filibuster. It's your bladder. Your bladder will obey for a day at the most.

Depends.

I would not put it past them.


"I crapped my pants for Freedum and Amurka!"

/and the insurance lobby

The "teabaggers" can organize a "brownbagger" movement, whereby they show solidarity for the GOP filibuster by soiling themselves and then blaming it on teh libs the other 80% of the country.

Fark It:


"I crapped my pants for Freedum and Amurka!"

/and the insurance lobby

The "teabaggers" can organize a "brownbagger" movement, whereby they show solidarity for the GOP filibuster by soiling themselves and then blaming it on the other 80% of the country.

I'll go ahead and request the newsletter now.

Fark yes! Suck it Liberman and Repubs, we're fixing the country whether you like it or not!

Gosling:
Besides, if they can't take it anymore and all have to go to the bathroom, you win anyway. That's how Huey Long lost his filibuster. That's how Strom Thurmond lost his.

It's not your mouth that sustains a filibuster. It's your bladder. Your bladder will obey for a day at the most.

Right, but the filibuster doesn't actually work that way, and it never did. You don't have to give an endless speech like in the movies. In fact you don't have to talk at all, which is why Reid doesn't bother to make them go through it. What Strom Thurmond did was just to make a political point and win him respect in the South.

Racht: Right, but the filibuster doesn't actually work that way, and it never did.

Never did? Quick Wiki:

The term first came into use in the United States Senate, where Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a 3/5ths of the Senate (60 out of 100 Senators elected and sworn), brings debate to a close by invoking cloture. (For changing of senate rules the pre-1975 rule of a super-majority of senators present, i.e. 67 senators at most, is still used).[9]
[edit] Procedural filibuster

In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits filibusters in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses[citation needed]. This threat of a filibuster where no floor speech and no quorum is required may, therefore, be more powerful than an actual filibuster, which would require attendance by a quorum of Senators as well as the physical presence of the Senators speaking.

Relatively Obscure:
Never did? Quick Wiki:

I could be wrong, but I know quite a bit about Senate procedure, and to my knowledge continuous floor speeches have never been *required*. They were just commonly used in decades past, because people only filibustered when they felt very strongly about something, and thus wanted to make a strong point.

Anyway, the relevant point is that they're not necessary now.

Racht: Anyway, the relevant point is that they're not necessary now.

That's true, but someone was arguing that they should be brought back. So, erm.. I thought that was the point of discussion.

Oh well. It's not like they'll be brought back even if they did exist once.

most curious - my comments regarding this legislation seem to have disappeared...

Reid can demand a traditional filibuster? THEN WHAT THE HELL IS HE WAITING FOR?!

Weaver95: most curious - my comments regarding this legislation seem to have disappeared...

Probably int he other thread.

Lets just bribe some peeps, we will get this thing through.

It will probably go well though.

Gosling: It's not your mouth that sustains a filibuster. It's your bladder. Your bladder will obey for a day at the most.

Real American Senators would get catheters.

I agree -- allowing a procedural filibuster is lame. If there is debate which still needs to happen on this matter then KEEP DEBATING IT.

This vote tonight is called a "procedural" vote. Does anyone know what the procedure is? It's not cloture, and the Senate doesn't usually pass rules to provide for the consideration of its bills. What is the significance of this vote?

I like filcheesesteaks

If only 'debate' was actually debate, rather than partisan grandstanding...

Do they still have the rule that a filibuster means you must remain standing and in the Chamber at all times like in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?

GWSuperfan: Real American Senators would get catheters.

Somewhere around hour 10, I'd drag out a bucket, set it right next to Saxby's desk, and take a nice long leisurely dump.

blockhouse: This vote tonight is called a "procedural" vote. Does anyone know what the procedure is? It's not cloture, and the Senate doesn't usually pass rules to provide for the consideration of its bills. What is the significance of this vote?

It's cloture on the motion to proceed. That is, the vote as to whether to end debate on the question of whether to begin debate on the bill. Since next week is Thanksgiving, there has been unanimous consent to combine the actual vote on the motion to proceed with this one, so everyone gets a week off.

It's significant only because it's the first of three cloture votes on the actual combined Senate bill. This is the first time a health care reform bill has seen the Senate floor since Medicare.

nirwana: Dems need to grow a pear.

I think you might mean "pair" but I do love pears so I would approve of either.

I would love to see the democratic party start threatening to pull out the Constitutional Option every time the republicans get obstructionist.

eddyatwork: Do they still have the rule that a filibuster means you must remain standing and in the Chamber at all times like in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?

Nope.

Everything in this process is pretty much irrelevant until they start working on the combined House/Senate bill. That bill is the one that will be sent to Obama's desk.

Gosling:Well, Reid knows what's at stake for him personally. He's trailing by double digits to a complete no-namer last I saw.

...and that no-namer is leading because he DOESN'T support this monstrosity of a bill. Gee, there's a message there...

He's running the full-on re-election campaign blitz NOW, a year out. He knows full well that his political career depends on him getting this bill to Obama's desk. He knows that if this bill dies, he might as well concede his race right here and now.

You have it backwards.

All of the big-name Dems who are in trouble right now are losing votes BECAUSE of their support for this bill. If they manage to shove it through, you can not only kiss the Dem majority in Congress goodbye, but you can bet on the loss of pretty much all of the Democratic Congresscritters who have been in office more than one or two terms.

This bill is deeply, hugely unpopular, and it's going to cost the Democrats their majority, and will probably also cost Obama his second term.

I thought the vote wasn't for another couple hours.

eddyatwork: Do they still have the rule that a filibuster means you must remain standing and in the Chamber at all times like in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington?

I believe the president of the senate can insist on this, yes.

cmunic8r99: If only 'debate' was actually debate, rather than partisan grandstanding...

The procedural humps are there to ensure that no one pulls a fast one on the senate.

Starting debate on the bill freezes the draft version, forcing all further amendments to be proposed on the floor. The sausage-making process is fundamentally different after floor debate begins.

Good to see the fixing of the obviously broken healthcare system is moving forward. I am sure there will be lots of rightwing flaming going on in this thread about the advent of socialism in America, but with 60 votes in the Senate, who really cares about it?

GAT_00: Fark yes! Suck it Liberman and Repubs, we're fixing the country whether you like it or not!

If they got 60, then Lieberman's among them, but go ahead, crap on him anyway. Maybe the lack of gratitude will make him think again the next time they need his vote to drag this decaying heap over the finish line.

nesler: GWSuperfan: Real American Senators would get catheters.

Somewhere around hour 10, I'd drag out a bucket, set it right next to on Saxby's desk, and take a nice long leisurely dump.

fixed.

Hick: Lets just bribe some peeps, we will get this thing throughfilibustered.

/both sides really are bad when it comes to getting big money for voting a certain way

Are you serious?

Nancy Pelosi: Constitution??? (new window)

Racht:
It's cloture on the motion to proceed. That is, the vote as to whether to end debate on the question of whether to begin debate on the bill. Since next week is Thanksgiving, there has been unanimous consent to combine the actual vote on the motion to proceed with this one, so everyone gets a week off.

It's significant only because it's the first of three cloture votes on the actual combined Senate bill. This is the first time a health care reform bill has seen the Senate floor since Medicare.

Okay, gotcha. Thank you so much for the clarification. This is why I come to Fark for my news. None of the traditional news outlets have this kind of information.

Somebody has to to do this:

ZOMGOBAMAOCARESOSHULISM!!!!!

GAT_00: Fark yes! Suck it Liberman and Repubs, we're fixing the country whether you like it or not!

And when it blows up, you get to be in the front of the line.

blockhouse: Okay, gotcha. Thank you so much for the clarification. This is why I come to Fark for my news. None of the traditional news outlets have this kind of information.

The weekday analysis shows on MSNBC would all have it. Unfortunately, this is not a weekday.

jjorsett: If they got 60, then Lieberman's among them, but go ahead, crap on him anyway. Maybe the lack of gratitude will make him think again the next time they need his vote to drag this decaying heap over the finish line.

I doubt a mean comment from an anonymous internet person will be enough to cause Lieberman to abandon the caucus.

Oh, wait. This is Joe Lieberman we're talking about. Never mind.

Say goodbye to your money. The giant sucking sound you hear is the tax increases that are coming.

F Obama, F Reid, F Pelosi, F all Libs.

joethebastard: Somewhere around hour 10, I'd drag out a bucket, set it right next to on Saxby's desk, and take a nice long leisurely dump.

fixed.

I like it.

I grow lots of pears in my backyard. They're quite tasty.