What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

I did the same thing with my breakfast nook.

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

Good point. I know a ton about ancient mythology and almost nothing about modes of worship. Well, not almost nothing, but certainly less than I know about the myths.

+1, subby.

Or, you know, they could have been orientated towards the sun to take advantage of all the passive effects of such an architectural decision on heating, lighting, shadow, aesthetics, etc... Because this is a people that helped invent architecture as we know it.

Just sayin.

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

I don't really think they were worshipped. Part of me feels like the Greeks just kind of accepted it as a cultural thing but didn't actually believe Zeus was up there throwing around lightning bolts.

/Might be completely wrong

So they leaned to the light?

I almost posted before I was done RTFA. I saw this and have nothing further to add: "A temple that faces the sunrise would be well-lit at dawn, so the priest would not be working in the shadows."

Christian churches are oriented east-west.

MentalMoment

I thought Christian churches traditionally pointed towards Jerusalem -- East in North America, but not in Europe.

MentalMoment: Christian churches are oriented east-west.

As are most Christian graves. Have to be facing the right way when the dead rise right? Right?

Subby made me smirk. *one singular golf clap*

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

Indeed. The only mention in my schooling of how they worshipped was made during an art history course while discussing the reliefs on the Parthenon, which depict part of religious ceremony/procession.

Fun facts:
Zeus' name in the nominative case is Zeus (Ζεύς). The genitive case however is derived from an entirely different stem, and that is Dios (Διός).
Both Zeus and Dios are permutations of the original name in the proto-indo-european language, which is much more ancient than the Greek name, and that was something like Djeus Ph'thr.

In Greek Djeus Ph'thr became Zeu Pater (Ζευ πατερ).
In Latin Djeus Ph'thr became one word, Jupitter.
In Sanskrit Djeus Ph'thr became Dyaus Pita.

Djeus = Shiny/shining (where the word "day" i.e. "the shining time" comes from), and Ph'thr well, try and pronounce it. It's "father".
"Day father," "shining father," "heavenly father." They all reference the sun.

That most religions actually evolved from primitive sun-worship is not really news. And religions, being conservative things, tend to retain symbolism long after the concept or entity which it symbolized has fallen out of the religion's practices or teachings.

Obviously because they did not know about Mecca.

Obviously, east was the preferred orientation unless made impractical by local setting factors.

Hardly a groundbreaking discovery. I wonder how long it took, and how much money was expended for Alun Salt, of the University of Leicester, to conduct this exhaustive research.

ArizonaBay: Fun facts:
Zeus' name in the nominative case is Zeus (Ζεύς). The genitive case however is derived from an entirely different stem, and that is Dios (Διός).
Both Zeus and Dios are permutations of the original name in the proto-indo-european language, which is much more ancient than the Greek name, and that was something like Djeus Ph'thr.

In Greek Djeus Ph'thr became Zeu Pater (Ζευ πατερ).
In Latin Djeus Ph'thr became one word, Jupitter.
In Sanskrit Djeus Ph'thr became Dyaus Pita.

Djeus = Shiny/shining (where the word "day" i.e. "the shining time" comes from), and Ph'thr well, try and pronounce it. It's "father".
"Day father," "shining father," "heavenly father." They all reference the sun.

That most religions actually evolved from primitive sun-worship is not really news. And religions, being conservative things, tend to retain symbolism long after the concept or entity which it symbolized has fallen out of the religion's practices or teachings.

Yep, though I have to add that our idea of what Attic sounded like is at best an approximation. More linguistic fun: Abraham and Brahma are from the same Indo-European root.

It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with with wanting adequate lighting, would it? Morning light with which to do temple business, then have a little lunch, take a nap and spend the evening with friends.

I'd be interested to know if the temples which to NOT face east are blocked from the light from a morning sun by an obstruction, or the view is simply prettier to a different direction.

I am of the mind that too many people look for mystical explanations for mundane things.

Were they worshiping the Sun or the Son?

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.



They cut bull and goat throats and played around with the blood.

They cut entrails out of dead animals and had their priests look at the entrails for signs of what their gods were telling them.

They stargazed- looking for meteors and shooting stars that might tell them what their got wanted. Stuff like that.

The Romans stole a lot of their beliefs and gods directly from the Greeks.



The Catholic Church is directly descended from the Roman pagan church. Even the official name of the pope, the Pontifex Maximus, is the same name of the Roman high priest. So the current pope, Pope Benny 16, actually holds the same title and position as Julius Caesar, who was the high priest in his time.

The songs and wierd hymms and mumbo jumbo the Catholics sing (in Latin remember, the language of the Romans) are all directly from the Romans. Even the funny robes and hats they wear are similar to the ones the pagan Roman priests wore.

So if you walk into a Catholic church even today, particularly the old ones in Europe (& specifically Italy), you are seeing a very close mirror of what and how the Romans (and somewhat, the Greeks) worshipped.

Which is one of the great ironies of Catholocism. They badmouth paganism for all these reasons and over all this time, yet they literally just took over the same buildings and traditions and clothing and customs that the pagans used.

By the way, this stuff is known today. You can find out pretty much any of this stuff in a 200 or 300 level classics course at any decent school.

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

This. I read mythology quite voraciously as a kid, for fun. I have never once found anything that actually depicts actual worship ceremonies, outside of descriptions of classical Greek plays that were held in honor of Dionysus.

Read up on Hesiod for ancient greek religion

Goodfella: The Romans stole a lot of their beliefs and gods directly from the Greeks.

Actually, the Greeks colonized Sicily and most of Southern Italy. that's why the Romans have Greek culture aspects.

PC LOAD LETTER: Goodfella: The Romans stole a lot of their beliefs and gods directly from the Greeks.

Actually, the Greeks colonized Sicily and most of Southern Italy. that's why the Romans have Greek culture aspects.

Captive Greek took Rome captive.

PC LOAD LETTER: Goodfella: The Romans stole a lot of their beliefs and gods directly from the Greeks.

Actually, the Greeks colonized Sicily and most of Southern Italy. that's why the Romans have Greek culture aspects.

wait I thought that went bad for the Greeks. Been a long time since I read any of that stuff, Peloponisian Wars etc and well its late, sorry.

I always liked the Greco-Roman gods. I could worship them in a semi-traditional way if I wasn't an atheist and was keen not burning flesh for them as offerings à la The Odyssey.

For some reason Dionysus/Bacchus scares me. Maybe because he's kind of half-drunk most of the time, well that and the fact that he had a mother kill her own King of a son through is power. Don't know how young I was when I read that but it kind of freaked me out.

Maggie_Luna: For some reason Dionysus/Bacchus scares me. Maybe because he's kind of half-drunk most of the time, well that and the fact that he had a mother kill her own King of a son through is power. Don't know how young I was when I read that but it kind of freaked me out.

Yeah... but massive orgies.

A dead prince-king is a small price to pay for such debauchery.

Kierkegaard's Pseudonym: Maggie_Luna: For some reason Dionysus/Bacchus scares me. Maybe because he's kind of half-drunk most of the time, well that and the fact that he had a mother kill her own King of a son through is power. Don't know how young I was when I read that but it kind of freaked me out.

Yeah... but massive orgies.

A dead prince-king is a small price to pay for such debauchery.

I've never but one for orgies, too many people. I'm an introvert too many people makes me prissy. I also don't like wine although I'd probably drink it to keep away dysentery if I had to choose between the two drinks. So I'm at odds with Bacchus as it is.

Although if a drunk little boy comes up to me and demands I acknowledge his godliness, if he can prove it without killing someone you bet your bum I'd do it, although the killing would probably convince me faster...

Ra! Ra! Ra!

Maggie_Luna: Although if a drunk little boy comes up to me and demands I acknowledge his godliness, if he can prove it without killing someone you bet your bum I'd do it, although the killing would probably convince me faster...

Just accept every drunk kid you come across as a god.

It's not worth making him prove it to you if it means being raped by a satyr.

Goodfella: Which is one of the great ironies of Catholocism. They badmouth paganism for all these reasons and over all this time, yet they literally just took over the same buildings and traditions and clothing and customs that the pagans used.

By the way, this stuff is known today. You can find out pretty much any of this stuff in a 200 or 300 level classics course at any decent school.

There's a huge amount of continuity. Christianity as we see it now is just Plato with some vestigial Jewish elements and Mithra.

Goodfella: Which is one of the great ironies of Catholocism. They badmouth paganism for all these reasons and over all this time, yet they literally just took over the same buildings and traditions and clothing and customs that the pagans used.

Yes, because all the pagan gods were involved in the new testament, right?

Idiot.

... and Yes, It is preferable for the entry to a church to be to the east, but it's not necessary ( st Patrick's in NY is west-facing, as are many others.)

Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

You're not taking the right classes. Try an Anthropology or history class. You're probably taking a class with someone who has a philosophical or literary basis, and the actual worship is less important to them than the expressions of the human psyche through the metaphor of the deities.

Hah, subby, well played

snugglyhugs: Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

I've heard conflicting stories about their daily lives and how religion played a role.

Some writers make it seem like you had an official god of your citystate and it was kind of a local pride thing the way football teams are today, some idiots took it WAY too seriously, but 90% of the population did not care much.

But I've heard other say that people would do insane things, give money to oracles, and pray when they were sick in a serious manner.

Who knows

The only think I'm fairly sure of is that unlike the attitude of the vast majority of believers today; back then your life was the good time. In other words you were meant to seek pleasure and enjoyment while you are alive.

You were not meant to follow rigid rules and feel guilty about sex or your desires in the hopes that if you were good and faithful enough... maaabye you would go to a nice place when you die...

... kind of the opposite of most modern religions

Your post demonstrates the power of wishful thinking. I suppose you haven't heard of the stoics.

Oh, and in the world of greek mythology when you died, that was it. Blackness washed over you and the best you could hope for was to be a shade in the underworld.

The mythology of the greeks showed a cruel and capricious world, and worship was a way of warding off misfortune or to gain luck in your endeavours.

Proper greek women stayed in the damn house and did not hang around with men that weren't their husband/family member.

So many times we think that Christianity has the lock on all the stuff we don't like these days -- them old time religions weren't necessarily freer.

Fano: snugglyhugs: Counter_Intelligent: What really irritates me about being taught about the Greeks was that we learned all these myths and stories about their gods, but not one class I took had anything to say about how the gods were actually worshiped.

I've heard conflicting stories about their daily lives and how religion played a role.

Some writers make it seem like you had an official god of your citystate and it was kind of a local pride thing the way football teams are today, some idiots took it WAY too seriously, but 90% of the population did not care much.

But I've heard other say that people would do insane things, give money to oracles, and pray when they were sick in a serious manner.

Who knows

The only think I'm fairly sure of is that unlike the attitude of the vast majority of believers today; back then your life was the good time. In other words you were meant to seek pleasure and enjoyment while you are alive.

You were not meant to follow rigid rules and feel guilty about sex or your desires in the hopes that if you were good and faithful enough... maaabye you would go to a nice place when you die...

... kind of the opposite of most modern religions

Your post demonstrates the power of wishful thinking. I suppose you haven't heard of the stoics.

Oh, and in the world of greek mythology when you died, that was it. Blackness washed over you and the best you could hope for was to be a shade in the underworld.

The mythology of the greeks showed a cruel and capricious world, and worship was a way of warding off misfortune or to gain luck in your endeavours.

Proper greek women stayed in the damn house and did not hang around with men that weren't their husband/family member.

So many times we think that Christianity has the lock on all the stuff we don't like these days -- them old time religions weren't necessarily freer.

True, true. While I could worship the gods in a I like them better kind of way (and my hard time to believe in things in general religiously) living in Ancient Greece is another things. From my knowledge of the Ancient world I would rather live in Egypt giving that there were a bit more freedoms for woman like divorce and ownership of property (not that I could ever own any given my social status now and comparing it to what it would be like back then minus the whole ability to rise in social classes/wealth today with education, etc.). Realistically I know that I would be a poor peasant either struggling to survive or surviving at a bit above subsistence living probably hoping not to die in childbirth or war.

I thought because of the headline, (for some reason) that the article was going to be about how greeks used to pray with their anuses pointed at the sun or something.

Now I'm sad.

we were born from the sun.
it gives us life.
it takes away life.
if there is a god to worship it shall be the Sun itself

mavrick45: we were born from the sun.
it gives us life.
it takes away life.
if there is a god to worship it shall be the Sun itself

And Joe Pesci.