may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.

Kind of like the reasoning for war with Iraq eh?

Well, that's the end of this controversy. Score another for Michelle's hard-hitting investigative journalism.

You are assuming we are still operating under a legitimate rule of law, Michelle.

This action appears to be closer to the real Boston Tea Party than anything the Tea Partiers have done so far.

I love these people! Really! I love them!

Olaf, you are tired. Your rhetoric is tired. Your feeble jabs are tired. Please, sir, stop embarrasing yourself by your twisted hatred of the ex-president; learn something about 2009.

b-b-b-but bushed in the boobies

Annnnd....GREEN!

Heh.

Now how the hell are people going to assuage their liberal guilt? How's Gore to occupy his time? It is a sad day indeed.

Chindit: Olaf, you are tired. Your rhetoric is tired. Your feeble jabs are tired. Please, sir, stop embarrasing yourself by your twisted hatred of the ex-president; learn something about 2009.

That ex-president part, can you say that again? I just like hearing it. Ex-President George W. Bush. God, that's hot.

FTA: "Next time I see Pat Michaels Michelle Malkin at a scientific meeting, I'll be tempted to beat the crap out of him her. Very tempted."

wee: Now how the hell are people going to assuage their liberal guilt? How's Gore to occupy his time? It is a sad day indeed.

What the fark is liberal guilt, and what the fark would it have to do with global warming?

It's too bad our penniless government is too dumb and pompous to admit they've been fooled.

Instead they are going to spend more money we don't have fighting a ficticious enemy and subsidizing those who seek to profit off our fears.

Sounds familiar.

mitchcumstein1: What the fark is liberal guilt, and what the fark would it have to do with global warming?

Wanna buy some carbon offets? I'm letting them go cheap!

This is a great example of off the record private communications that can be mis-read any way you want. The fact is that most climatologists not only "believe" in climate change, they know it is a fact. It is somewhat unclear how much of this we can blame this on ourselves, or what sort or remediation may help to curtail it, but it is happening. The arctic ice cap is so small now that shipping lanes are being used where there used to be solid ice. This is not politics, it is fact.

ricewater_stool: This is a great example of off the record private communications that can be mis-read any way you want.

...

The arctic ice cap is so small now that shipping lanes are being used where there used to be solid ice. This is not politics, it is fact.

Aren't we forgetting Antartica, which makes up 90% of the Earth's ice? And last I heard it's expanding.

Unless the Southern Hemisphere isn't related to Global Warming.

G'day.

Can we even say "of the century" yet? I mean it's only been nine years

Chindit: Olaf, you are tired. Your rhetoric is tired. Your feeble jabs are tired. Please, sir, stop embarrasing yourself by your twisted hatred of the ex-president; learn something about 2009.

So you're tired of being reminded that Dubya et al lied to the world in order to start an illegal war?... too fecking bad skippy.

... but back on topic.

Climate change is real and has caused pretty much all of the major mass extinctions in Earth's history.

The cause of that change has varied from comets/meteor impacts, lava fields in Siberia, salinity change in the ocean messing up the "conveyer belt" in the Atlantic, sunspots, and yes, man-made polution. Sometimes it's a combination of more than one factor, but to say mankind has had no impact on our climate is delusional at best.

It would be more prudent to at least begin the process of change and education until such a time that we know more information about the various factors that drive climate change, whether the Earth is warming or cooling.

Ignore it at your peril... at all of our perils actually

Malkin? Yeah, that's a believable source for proof of a "global warming" scam.

Chindit: ex-president

ne2d: b-b-b-but bushed in the boobies

Don't you just love how history began on January 20th, 2009 now?

Alright, that's it. We can't trust scientists now either. I'm going to go back to practicing voodoo.

Anybody got any chicken blood?

Chindit: Olaf, you are tired. Your rhetoric is tired. Your feeble jabs are tired. Please, sir, stop embarrasing yourself by your twisted hatred of the ex-president; learn something about 2009.

Are you his mom?

Or do you just play a post-menopausal woman on the internet?

Malkin link = instant fail.

GAT_00: Malkin? Yeah, that's a believable source for proof of a "global warming" scam.

Neutral article for you and everyone else who doesn't want to give Malkin a click (new window)

twidgetfitch: ricewater_stool: This is a great example of off the record private communications that can be mis-read any way you want.

...

The arctic ice cap is so small now that shipping lanes are being used where there used to be solid ice. This is not politics, it is fact.

Aren't we forgetting Antartica, which makes up 90% of the Earth's ice? And last I heard it's expanding.

Unless the Southern Hemisphere isn't related to Global Warming.

G'day.

You're a moron. Proof: Link (new window)

Dr Turner said the research results indicated why the extensive melting of ice in the Arctic was not occurring in Antarctica.

"While there is increasing evidence that the loss of sea ice in the Arctic has occurred due to human activity, in the Antarctic, human influence through the ozone hole has had the reverse effect and resulted in more ice," he said. As the ozone hole repaired itself as a result of measures in place to reduce chlorofluorocarbons in the stratosphere, the cooling in Antactica was expected to be reversed.

"We expect ozone levels to recover by the end of the century, and by then there is likely to be around one-third less Antarctic sea ice," Dr Turner said.

twidgetfitch: Aren't we forgetting Antartica, which makes up 90% of the Earth's ice? And last I heard it's expanding.

where did you 'hear' this?

Also, the scientific record does not include emails between colleagues. It does include publications in peer-reviewed journals, which overwhelmingly agree that climate change is a fact.

ricewater_stool: This is a great example of off the record private communications that can be mis-read any way you want. The fact is that most climatologists not only "believe" in climate change, they know it is a fact. It is somewhat unclear how much of this we can blame this on ourselves, or what sort or remediation may help to curtail it, but it is happening. The arctic ice cap is so small now that shipping lanes are being used where there used to be solid ice. This is not politics, it is fact.

The fact that the average temperature of the surface temperature of the earth is rising is not really in debate.

The debate is how much of it is man-made and whether OMG WEER AL DOOOOOOOOMMMMEDZ!! is the right stance to be taking on the issue.

mcsestretch: ricewater_stool: This is a great example of off the record private communications that can be mis-read any way you want. The fact is that most climatologists not only "believe" in climate change, they know it is a fact. It is somewhat unclear how much of this we can blame this on ourselves, or what sort or remediation may help to curtail it, but it is happening. The arctic ice cap is so small now that shipping lanes are being used where there used to be solid ice. This is not politics, it is fact.

The fact that the average temperature of the surface temperature of the earth is rising is not really in debate.

The debate is how much of it is man-made and whether OMG WEER AL DOOOOOOOOMMMMEDZ!! is the right stance to be taking on the issue.

I agree completely. However, the Fox News tards do not agree with facts- they deny anything is even happening.

smooshie: Neutral article for you and everyone else who doesn't want to give Malkin a click (new window)

Fine, thanks. We're still supposed to believe a hacker is giving us real data.

For fark's sake, the only global climate change lie is that the change is going to be worse than the official IPCC predictions because the IPCC was forced to use the best-case models because even the average of all the models was so severe that the panel knew they would be dismissed.

twidgetfitch: Aren't we forgetting Antartica, which makes up 90% of the Earth's ice? And last I heard it's expanding.

That's not the full story

NASA Data: Greenland, Antarctic Ice Melt Worsening (new window)

world's most prestigious global warming center

that just sounds so silly

mcsestretch:
The fact that the average temperature of the surface temperature of the earth is rising is not really in debate.

RTFA

I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline.

brainiac-dumdum: where did you 'hear' this?

It's half of the story. In the middle of Antarctica, temperatures seem to be falling and ice is accumulating. However, the valleys are warming up so much that the ice loss in the valleys is roughly equivalent or greater than the ice gain over the entire rest of the continent.

Here's some schnit from Nature (scientific peer reviewed journal):

Warming of the Antarctic ice-sheet surface since the 1957 International Geophysical Year (new window)

Verification and upper-limit calibration statistics calculated for each grid point from the comparison of reconstructed and original satellite-derived monthly temperature anomalies. (new window)

Reconstructed annual mean Antarctic temperature anomalies, January 1957 to December 2006. (new window)

Spatial pattern of temperature trends (new window)

Comparison of reconstructed and modelled mean annual temperature trends for the periods 1957-1981 and 1979-2003. (new window)

GAT_00: brainiac-dumdum: where did you 'hear' this?

It's half of the story. In the middle of Antarctica, temperatures seem to be falling and ice is accumulating. However, the valleys are warming up so much that the ice loss in the valleys is roughly equivalent or greater than the ice gain over the entire rest of the continent.

yes, I know.

brainiac-dumdum: yes, I know.

Ah, wasn't sure. But yeah, I know that talking point.

All fark envirotards may now commit suicide and feed a tree. It's the only thing left for you to do to "save the planet"....

LordZorch: All fark envirotards may now commit suicide and feed a tree. It's the only thing left for you to do to "save the planet"....

I love the smell of knee-jerk reactionism based on a headline in the morning.

LordZorch: All fark envirotards may now commit suicide and feed a tree. It's the only thing left for you to do to "save the planet"....

Not the only thing..... There are other options, if you know what I mean

Also, for the "But if it's global hotterness, whycome it's snowing with cold?"

Record High Temperatures Far Outpace Record Lows Across U.S. (new window)

twidgetfitch: One of the more likely natural disasters to totally fark up our climate could be a large volcanic eruption. All your hard work and dollars will have gone to waste. The amount of greenhouse gases emitted at once would eclipse our polluting efforts over the last century.

What a stupid point to make, such an event would only provide more impetus to reduce the greenhouse gases we can control.

It's amusing how I'm supposed to take your graphs seriously when you were just posting idiotic bits like, "Antarctica has big much ice" using bits gleaned from Fox News articles of yore.

twidgetfitch

1) that page you link to hasn't been updated since 2003

2) Monte Hieb, the proprietor of that page, works for the West Virginia mining industry.

LordZorch: All fark envirotards may now commit suicide and feed a tree. It's the only thing left for you to do to "save the planet"....


So telling people in all honesty to kill themselves is kosher. but calling Sarah Palin dumb is the real sign of hate. Gotcha.

brainiac-dumdum: 2) Monte Hieb, the proprietor of that page, works for the West Virginia mining industry.

see (new window)

REGION IV, OAK HILL MONTE HIEB CHIEF ENGINEER ENGINEERING - MAPPING mh­ieb­s­enim­st­a­t­ew­vu­s

brainiac-dumdum:
It's amusing how I'm supposed to take your graphs seriously when you were just posting idiotic bits like, "Antarctica has big much ice" using bits gleaned from Fox News articles of yore.

The summary that I got? That I mentioned to get your blood boiling?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html

Well, since your two-wrongs fallacy and biases have been cleared up, I will let you read it for yourself before you embarass yourself further.

Pay attention to the end of the Fox News article, it reads Click here to read the full story from News.com.au

On a different note, the article references:

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded.

Anyone have access to that journal?

playblu: farm4.static.flickr.com

Nicely selected data. Where's it from?

twidgetfitch: Anyone have access to that journal?

So you're definitely not aware of the difference in reflectivity between new ice and several year old ice, are you? Or how sea ice expanding doesn't signify if that sea ice is attached or free floating? Or that more sea ice is going to raise sea levels? Any of that touching your knowledge center?

brainiac-dumdum: twidgetfitch

1) that page you link to hasn't been updated since 2003


The geocraft page? Not updated since 2003? Well it says that at the bottom, but you're not someone who believes everything you read right?

A little critical thinking would've shown that either that date is wrong or that the author magically references works from the future.

f. EPA Seeks To Have Water Vapor Classified As A Pollutant
by the ecoEnquirer, 2006
Alternate link:

twidgetfitch: The summary that I got? That I mentioned to get your blood boiling?

I'm taunting you, I'm not angry w/ you.

twidgetfitch: embarass

lol, ironic

Sigh, the Fox News article is only giving you half the story. They are purposefully omitting info about ozone reconstruction and the impact it has on the ice shelf. Follow the the above links and you will understand, well, if you are capable of understanding, the links are geared towards those with reading comprehension abilities above the fifth grade level.