just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, gas stations are everywhere, but there are only so many places where you can charge a car.

EatHam: just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, gas stations are everywhere, but there are only so many places where you can charge a car.

Yeah but like just2quixotic almost all my household's driving is under 20 miles. The only time we go over that is the three times a year we run up to Annapolis or DC and the twice a year we're driving to my mom's house. This would be an excellent car for the husband to drive to and from work in every day in. The 15 miles there and back with picking up the kids from whatever.

just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, most interstate exits do, in fact, have retail outlets nearby where gasoline may be purchased. Virtually none of them, however, have retail electricity.

just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

You need a huge power supply to charge a car in 5 minutes like you do when you refill a gas tank.

pandabear: just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, most interstate exits do, in fact, have retail outlets nearby where gasoline may be purchased. Virtually none of them, however, have retail electricity.

yeah i mean, can you imagine how much work it would take to run electricity to every gas station in the country?

doublesecretprobation: yeah i mean, can you imagine how much work it would take to run electricity to every gas station in the country?

What has to be considered here is high-ampereage delivery to multiple cars simultaneously, if a true "electric service station" model was ever to be viable. That would require substantial investment in upgrades to electric delivery infrastructure, and until the market dictates, you probably won't see it happen anytime soon. Besides, until super-capacitor technologies for automotive use become viable, the quick 5 minute charge scenario won't really work. Most EVs still take 2-4 hours to charge on the high voltage/amp setting.

What would make a hell of a lot more sense would be to offer tax incentives to office complex owners, mall operators, etc etc to cover their parking lots with solar panels, and offer recharging options to customers while they shop or work or whatever. The surplus power would run some of the building's needs, too.

It would be a start, anyway.

doublesecretprobation: yeah i mean, can you imagine how much work it would take to run electricity to every gas station in the country?

A lot.

We aren't charging a cell phone here. We're talking an outlet that can provide a megawatt of power in order to charge a car in 5 minutes.

markie_farkie: What has to be considered here is high-ampereage delivery to multiple cars simultaneously,

are you f*cking kidding me? most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

I wonder what they lifespan of the batteries is, 75,000 100,000 miles?

Anything less will make the car worthless on the resale market and essentially disposable.

doublesecretprobation: are you f*cking kidding me? most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

If they all have 5000 amp fuses, then we're talking...

Gwendolyn: Yeah but like just2quixotic almost all my household's driving is under 20 miles. The only time we go over that is the three times a year we run up to Annapolis or DC and the twice a year we're driving to my mom's house. This would be an excellent car for the husband to drive to and from work in every day in. The 15 miles there and back with picking up the kids from whatever.

True enough, but the point is, if you are out of electricity in the middle of nowhere, you're towing it. If you are out of gas, you can get a gallon and continue. Of course, you have more issues than being out of fuel in either case, namely a catastrophic case of poor planning and dumbassedness, but the point still stands - you can get gas easier than electricity.

doublesecretprobation: yeah i mean, can you imagine how much work it would take to run electricity to every gas station in the country?

Metered electricity, probably both 110 and 220, weatherproofed, idiot-proofed and suitable for rapidly recharging car batteries? It's only going to take one idiot standing in a rain puddle to make some lawyer rich.

And, um, these things don't charge in minutes, you know? While the guy at the pump is filling his tank, your charge meter just got up to a percent. Only 99 to go.

So, no, I don't think that the time is ripe for recharging battery electric vehicles at the corner gas station.

EatHam: Gwendolyn: Yeah but like just2quixotic almost all my household's driving is under 20 miles. The only time we go over that is the three times a year we run up to Annapolis or DC and the twice a year we're driving to my mom's house. This would be an excellent car for the husband to drive to and from work in every day in. The 15 miles there and back with picking up the kids from whatever.

True enough, but the point is, if you are out of electricity in the middle of nowhere, you're towing it. If you are out of gas, you can get a gallon and continue. Of course, you have more issues than being out of fuel in either case, namely a catastrophic case of poor planning and dumbassedness, but the point still stands - you can get gas easier than electricity.

That's true. I tend to forget most people are idiots.

doublesecretprobation: most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

yeah, how long till some dimwit sticks their dick in it and darwins themselves?

When I was in LA I saw a Tesla car charging at the airport. I'd never seen one before, it was cool. Also cool is that LAX has priority parking and electric charging for electric cars.

Shouldn't we start seeing "setbacks" due to key personnel getting in "accidents" by now?

Forget charging stations (for all the reasons mentioned above). We should be focused on battery exchanges, where you can just swap 'em out like we currently do with propane exchange points.

Only pay for the juice provided you return a working (albeit discharged) batter of the same kind.

EatHam: yeah, how long till some dimwit sticks their dick in it and darwins themselves?

How long til some dim wit starts gargling with gasoline?

It's not like the current version is harmless and we're opening ourselves up to all kinds of danger.

I agree that now is not the time for a quick fill up EV charging station, but where is all this lawsuit/darwin award talk coming from? It's not like our current vehicles run on farkin fluffernutter.

Tastes Like Chicken: It's not like our current vehicles run on farkin fluffernutter.

And good thing, too. Marshmallow spread and peanut butter are WAY more expensive per gallon than gasoline.

Bladel: Only pay for the juice provided you return a working (albeit discharged) batter of the same kind.

What do you think the volume and weight dimensions of this battery are? Is it even one battery? Or is it cells fit in wherever space could be found for them? I don't think anyone is going to be changing them for free the same way Radio Shack does with watch batteries.

EatHam: yeah, how long till some dimwit sticks their dick in it and darwins themselves?

i'm pretty sure that something can be developed that's a little more advanced than:

The only way I can see electric taking off with the technology we have now is if a company can pioneer a battery exchange similar to the way that Blue Rhino does propane tanks.

IrateShadow: The only way I can see electric taking off with the technology we have now is if a company can pioneer a battery exchange similar to the way that Blue Rhino does propane tanks.

A battery exchange every 40 miles? That's insane.

Battery exchange will never work, onboard generators are the way to go.

They're still thieves.

The dashboard is seriously awful, even for a GM vehicle.

I love the electric/gas generator solution to the hybrid issue.

I hope they get it right and other car companies follow suit.

heck. Its how locomotives have been engineered since they retired the coal powered ones

Kreigenstein: Battery exchange will never work, onboard generators are the way to go.

Not sure if serious

Kreigenstein: IrateShadow: The only way I can see electric taking off with the technology we have now is if a company can pioneer a battery exchange similar to the way that Blue Rhino does propane tanks.

A battery exchange every 40 miles? That's insane.

Battery exchange will never work, onboard generators are the way to go.

If you have more batteries and less onboard generator, you'll get a 200-300 mile range (like the Tesla, at 250miles). 250 miles with an easily swappable battery would be similar to a lot of current gasoline cars, in terms of range.

What would be cool would be if it was modular and you could leave the generator module at home when you didn't need it to save weight, or replace the generator with more batteries, or .... you could adjust the car to meet your driving needs for that day. Just going to the store, leave the generator and gas at home and the 40 mile range is enough. Maybe you don't even need to buy the generator if that is all you do. Longer trips, take the generator and tank, or take the extra batteries for 80 mile range. Really long or multi day trip and you don't know if you can recharge, take the generator.

We aren't charging a cell phone here. We're talking an outlet that can provide a megawatt of power in order to charge a car in 5 minutes.

To be fair, and with gas prices below $2.50, any vehicle with a gas tank larger than 20 gallons takes longer than five minutes to fill up.

The automobile industry is as much about advertising as the product itself. Lengthen the recharge time of an electric station to 30 minutes, or an hour, and put a positive spin on it, something along the lines of "the quality of the drive" or whatever. Lincoln has been trying to equate its new cars with spaceships for 2010, according to their commercials.

Jacobin: The dashboard is seriously awful, even for a GM vehicle.

It will be interesting to see the hod rod community's response to the Volt.

just2quixotic: Idiot reporter starts off article with a bit of fear mongering. I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

350 miles on a tank vs 40 miles on a charge.

Valarius

It will be interesting to see the hod rod community's response to the Volt.

Hot Rod. You said Hot Rod.

KarmicDisaster: What would be cool would be if it was modular and you could leave the generator module at home when you didn't need it to save weight, or replace the generator with more batteries, or .... you could adjust the car to meet your driving needs for that day. Just going to the store, leave the generator and gas at home and the 40 mile range is enough. Maybe you don't even need to buy the generator if that is all you do. Longer trips, take the generator and tank, or take the extra batteries for 80 mile range. Really long or multi day trip and you don't know if you can recharge, take the generator.

That would cause a weight distribution nightmare for the design engineers.

Valarius: We aren't charging a cell phone here. We're talking an outlet that can provide a megawatt of power in order to charge a car in 5 minutes.

To be fair, and with gas prices below $2.50, any vehicle with a gas tank larger than 20 gallons takes longer than five minutes to fill up.

What does gas price have to do with the flow rate of gasoline through a nozzle?

Also, re the Volt, WANT.

lordargent: just2quixotic: Idiot reporter starts off article with a bit of fear mongering. I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

350 miles on a tank vs 40 miles on a charge.

What does that have to do with anything? If you know your gasoline-powered car's range is about 350 miles, you don't drive 360 miles into the desert. If you know your Volt's range is about 40 miles, you don't drive 50 miles into the desert. Why does the Volt get singled out? Failing to account for the limitations of the vehicle's capabilities is not something that's unique to drivers of electric vehicles.

doublesecretprobation: pandabear: just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, most interstate exits do, in fact, have retail outlets nearby where gasoline may be purchased. Virtually none of them, however, have retail electricity.

yeah i mean, can you imagine how much work it would take to run electricity to every gas station in the country?

Capable of fast-charging of a battery with output sufficient to run a half-tonne vehicle? "A huge farking lot" of work would be the lowest of low end estimates.

Seriously, having at least a middle-school understanding of power transmission would have told you that before you typed it.

//Volt will be a decent short-range buggy for commuters and such... who could just fricking bike anyhow, but we can ignore that, i guess.

Kreigenstein: IrateShadow: The only way I can see electric taking off with the technology we have now is if a company can pioneer a battery exchange similar to the way that Blue Rhino does propane tanks.

A battery exchange every 40 miles? That's insane.

Battery exchange will never work, onboard generators are the way to go.

I agree with you fully on the onboard generators. I don't understand why more companies are pursuing small generators and battery charging combos. They seem like a good mid point between going full battery, which our infrastructure can't handle, and sitting there just using more and more gas. Plus if done correctly it could charge then shut off and let you ride back on the battery once the engine refills the battery.

This might just be barely enough for my commute, but $40k is a bit pricey. You can get a Tesla Model S for just a little more.

impaler: doublesecretprobation: are you f*cking kidding me? most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

If they all have 5000 amp fuses, then we're talking...

Just jam a penny in there. Max power draw for just 1¢. Problem solved.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Oh, wait. $40,000? That's about $5000 more than what I had in mind for next vehicle. So, I'll get what I wanted in the first place, and just spend the extra $5000 on the difference in gas mileage.

Also, what do these things do to the average home electricity bill?

The Prius has addressed lot of the myths & fears of electric cars. Albeit this one is built by GM so who knows. Reducing dependency on mideast oil is a good thing.

Isn't there some European country that's shifting its infrastructure to electric vehicles; And has robotic "gas" stations that swap out the car batteries (like you would a propane tank)?

I mean that seems to be the easiest way to get the sort of speed and convenience typical of a gas-powered vehicle, although it might not exactly be that cost-effective.

pandabear: just2quixotic: I mean how is this different than being low on gas and hoping desperately for a town with a gas station?

Well, most interstate exits do, in fact, have retail outlets nearby where gasoline may be purchased. Virtually none of them, however, have retail electricity.

So bring an extra bucket of electricity with you just in case.

Fuggin Bizzy: impaler: doublesecretprobation: are you f*cking kidding me? most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

If they all have 5000 amp fuses, then we're talking...

Just jam a penny in there. Max power draw for just 1¢. Problem solved.

ummm..
Typical Class L Fuse dimensions

Stile4aly: What does gas price have to do with the flow rate of gasoline through a nozzle?

I guess when gas is expensive, people are more likely to put just $20 worth in at a time than fill the tank all the way up.

Also, what vehicles other than SUVs have 20+ gallon tanks?

poot_rootbeer: Also, what vehicles other than SUVs have 20+ gallon tanks?

My first car was a Volkswagen Rabbit that had a 12-gallon auxiliary tank welded on top of (and connected to) the main 10-gallon tank. Diesel engine.

Gutless as all hell, but it got 50MPG, and I only had to fill it once a month despite a 40 mile (each way) work commute.

I miss that car. =(

BKITU: 40 30 mile

Fuggin Bizzy: impaler: doublesecretprobation: are you f*cking kidding me? most commercial areas already have ready access to 3-phase power. smaller stations are usually combination repair shops and they have 3-phase power too.

If they all have 5000 amp fuses, then we're talking...

Just jam a penny in there. Max power draw for just 1¢. Problem solved.

Penny 'll start a fire!



Also, RE: the Volt, VERY MUCH WANT. But... $40k will be out of my price range.

The FAIL in this thread is mind-boggling... the whole point of the Volt is that you can take it beyond the 40-mile range if you need to, using the gas engine.

On the other hand, $40K is FAIL in its own right. If they could get it down to Prius-level prices, it would be a game-changer.