I see what you did there Submitter.

Rubbing aborted fetuses on my eyes cured my astigmatism.

Hey, only Jebus can cure the blind...this is blasphemy.

That's weird. I thought all stem cells were already blind.

Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

Next year? I'll have to keep an eye out for that then.

Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your discarded embryonic tissue.

RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

So you are saying that we should be destroying innocent babies' lives and scraping out the back of their brains so blind people can see again? If god wanted these people to see he would have cured them. They probably did something to smite god that caused their blindness in the first place.

The Angry Hand of God: They probably did something to smite god

now there is a ballsy move

/as a Christian Conservative, i'm gunna get a kick out of these replies...

Fark the blind, I want some stem cells to repair my glenoid fossa...

Rock Climbing How I miss thee.

tortilla burger: That's weird. I thought all stem cells were already blind.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Eye see what you did there Submitter.

FTFY

Did some pun-soaked submitter recently get Admin rights or something? Because the puns are really getting overdone lately.

I wonder if blind people will act as stupidly about a cure as deaf people?

/sorry deaf people, while I understand what it feels like belonging to a group and the benefits that comes with it, you ARE handicapped. It is better to hear than to not hear, period.

RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

Actually, the conservatives inadvertantly did the best thing possible: they actually ADVANCED the research far further and faster than what would have happened simply because alternatives had to be studied.

Not supporting the idea, just pointing out a happy accident...

Smackledorfer: It is better to hear than to not hear, period.

It's also better to have electroreceptors than not to have electroreceptors.

/let's beat the sharks at their own game

Won't someone think of the frozen embryos that will be disposed of in six to eight weeks anyway?

RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

For real?

Good for you for sticking to your guns, I hope the end is not as painfull as it was for my grandmother. After her experance with letting her belifes get in the way with the end of her life, i chickend out and opted for a life that took care of me and those I loved.

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

Cool have fun dieing, I will take your treatment.

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

Then don't take it. I've got a family history of cancer, diabetes, MS, Alzheimer's and heart attacks. I would like never to experience those.

flyingmonkeysreign: Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

Then don't take it. I've got a family history of cancer, diabetes, MS, Alzheimer's and heart attacks. I would like never to experience those.

In Louisville they are doing some trials and testing with stem cells to repair the damage to hearts that have attacks.

It is some amazing stuff.

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

That's fine. Please get out of the way of people who will take the treatments though.

iamkion132: Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

That's fine. Please get out of the way of people who will take the treatments though.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with advocating a moral position. It's no different than my opposition to the death penalty. I believe that to be morally wrong also.

/not a Christian Conservative Righty
//Catholic Democrat

CapitolG:

mitEj:

flyingmonkeysreign:

iamkion132:

These.


/pre-diabetic (apparently, that's a real term now)
//fiancee has MS
///getting a kick, etc

Hillbilly Jim: There is absolutely nothing wrong with advocating a moral position. It's no different than my opposition to the death penalty. I believe that to be morally wrong also

nothing wrong at all, but you do understand that it seems as crazy to others as our willingness to undergo Imoral treatments seems to you.

Hillbilly Jim: Catholic Democrat

youch, that has got to be rough, best wishes.

Hillbilly Jim: It's no different than my opposition to the death penalty.

Except that the people on death row are actually people.

(Unless you're just talking about the act of standing by a moral position, not the logic of that position, in which case, more power to you, and I'm with you on that one.)

CapitolG: Hillbilly Jim: There is absolutely nothing wrong with advocating a moral position. It's no different than my opposition to the death penalty. I believe that to be morally wrong also

nothing wrong at all, but you do understand that it seems as crazy to others as our willingness to undergo Imoral treatments seems to you.

Hillbilly Jim: Catholic Democrat

youch, that has got to be rough, best wishes.

I don't think I'm crazy or that the other people are immoral for accepting the treatment. What I can do is give my take on it and discuss the topic with people and give them my view and hopefully change a mind or two. If not, good luck to you and I wish you well with no animosity whatsoever.

/thanks for the good wishes

Hillbilly Jim: I don't think I'm crazy or that the other people are immoral for accepting the treatment. What I can do is give my take on it and discuss the topic with people and give them my view and hopefully change a mind or two. If not, good luck to you and I wish you well with no animosity whatsoever.

Awesome! Let me take a moment to say thanks for keeping our discussion free of insult singing and just sharing our opinions.

Thanks again Jim

I know this will ruin a perfectly good troll war but you do all realize that there has been a lot of good work done in using stem cells from sources other than embryos, right? While the US has been struggling to crawl out of the dark ages, the rest of the world is moving forward.

Invincible: While the US has been struggling to crawl out of the dark ages, the rest of the world is moving forward.

Isn't this firm based in the US?

The blind leading the blind?

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

Could not be reached for comment:


/obscure?

I would hope by now that even the most ignorant fundies have learned that stem cells do not come from aborted fetuses, but then I remember who it is I'm talking about.

I'm blind so I am not getting a kick out of these replies.

CapitolG: thanks for keeping our discussion free of insult singing and just sharing our opinions.

I'm siiiiiinging in the rain
Just siiiiiinging in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I'm healthy again

I'm laughing at technophobes
So dumb up above
Stem cells in my heart
And I'm ready for love

Let the technophobes chase
everyone from the place
Because it just means more delicious stem cells for everyone that actually deserves them.

So they're going to try... we'll see how it goes. Meanwhile there are actual stories of positive results with other types of stem cells.

I'm curious why this particular research is using embryonic stem cells and if there's certainly no other type of stem cell to do that same thing.

Hillbilly Jim: RoxtarRyan: Waiting for the Christian Conservative Right to piss all over this medical advancement...

My family has a history of kidney disorders/diabetes. My father passed at the age of 57. His mother was the longest living of her family,13 kids, and passed at the age of 66. Her brother died at 26. I was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago at the age of 40, about the same time my father was. I am still against embryonic stem cell research use. I believe it to be immoral and ethically bankrupt. I would refuse the treatment if it were available to me.

do you think it is ok to take an organ transplant from a dead person? if so why ? you are benefiting from the death of someone else i dont see a difference.

You can get stem cells from the blood still in the umbilical cord at birth. These stem cells are embryonic stem cells that are undifferentiated and have the same potential, but can be harvested without harming anything that could be considered controversial. There are already cord blood banks that hold on to half the baby's cord blood in exchange for using the other half to do research. That way, if the kid needs stem cells later, the therapies have been developed and his very own stem cells are available.

/Don't care about fetuses being used, but those who are opposed to the fetal tissue harvest need to know they can also benefit from these therapies since there's another way.

is that a masturbation joke, subby?

Infinite Monkey: Except that the people on death row are actually people.

when do we become people?

UnrepentantApostate: You can get stem cells from the blood still in the umbilical cord at birth. These stem cells are embryonic stem cells that are undifferentiated and have the same potential, but can be harvested without harming anything that could be considered controversial. There are already cord blood banks that hold on to half the baby's cord blood in exchange for using the other half to do research. That way, if the kid needs stem cells later, the therapies have been developed and his very own stem cells are available.

/Don't care about fetuses being used, but those who are opposed to the fetal tissue harvest need to know they can also benefit from these therapies since there's another way.

interesting, good to know there is a choice

and at what point would you care about that fetus thing?

Hillbilly Jim: I don't think I'm crazy or that the other people are immoral for accepting the treatment.

ok now i'm confused, you think it's immoral if you do it, but not if they do it?

I drunk what:



interesting, good to know there is a choice

and at what point would you care about that fetus thing?



I, personally, start caring somewhere just after the third trimester, when the complex nervous system has developed. After that, the fetus finally has the hardware for physical sensation and the framework for higher consciousness. Before that, it doesn't feel and, especially, it can't think, and in my opinion can't be considered human.

I also support withdrawing the verifiably brain-dead from life support, and organ donation as an opt-out rather than opt-in system.

I'm still waiting for a scientist to jab a syringe full of stem cells into my eyes to fix my color blindness. They did it with monkeys damnit!.

I drunk what: when do we become people?

Humans don't develop the neurologically necessary parts for the brain functions we associate with personhood until close to the 7th month of gestation.

and at what point would you care about that fetus thing?

Practically speaking? The 7th month of gestation due to the above facts.

ok now i'm confused, you think it's immoral if you do it, but not if they do it?

It's a concept commonly referred to as "keeping your faith to yourself". I know this will be a strange and alien idea to you, but it is possible to consider something to be morally wrong without also wanting to ban everyone else's access to it.

The Angry Hand of God: "So you are saying that we should be destroying innocent babies' lives and scraping out the back of their brains so blind people can see again? If god wanted these people to see he would have cured them. They probably did something to smite god that caused their blindness in the first place."

I drunk what: "and at what point would you care about that fetus thing?"

To both of you: Listen carefully because this has been said thousands of times but you people never seem to internalize it.

Foetuses are not being created and then destroyed for the sake of stem cell research. The foetuses being used are already dead. They come from fertility clinics.

Smackledorfer: I wonder if blind people will act as stupidly about a cure as deaf people?

/sorry deaf people, while I understand what it feels like belonging to a group and the benefits that comes with it, you ARE handicapped. It is better to hear than to not hear, period.

Not contained here, but Oliver Sacks wrote a moving piece about a blind man that had sight restored. It ended badly. (new window)

I drunk what: Infinite Monkey: Except that the people on death row are actually people.

when do we become people?


Depends on your definition of "person". "A clump of cells containing a unique DNA pattern" doesn't cut it for me. Ultimately, wherever anyone draws the line, it's arbitrary.

From a religious perspective, one might argue that as soon as an egg is fertilized, it's imbued with some sort of "soul", the existence of which can't be detected in any way.

This is kind of a wierd argument. For instance, my aforementioned finacee is also an identical triplet. Does she have 1/3 of a soul? Was there an original soul that was destroyed when the original clump of cells split into 3? Did 2 more souls magically appear when the original clump split? Is one of the 3 sisters the "original" person? Did my fiancee's life begin at conception, or when the split occurred?

The actual facts of how life works are incredibly complex. There's no actual "moment" when a life begins. The hot chick having coffe in the next room is simply the latest iteration of a process of cell division and neural development.