But.... But.. Supply and demand?

Alacritous: But.... But.. Supply and demand?

Exactly. It's supply and demand. They have the supply and are demanding more money for it.

are we sure nobody hacked the gibson?

commodities markets speculators should be required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

This is supposedly happening off the US too. But let's keep letting the oil companies rape us and not bother trying to switch off it.

What does it cost to get in the pool for how long until a terrorist/eco nut sinks one of these?

IgG4: commodities markets speculators should be required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

I think we should leave the rules and regulations completely alone...but any broker (commodities or otherwise) making over $50,000 a year has their name tossed into a lottery. At the end of the fiscal year, 2 names are drawn from that list...and those two people are put into a steel cage death match fight to the death. Pay per view of course (a part of the proceeds go to the losers family).

If there was ever a time for a German wolf pack to show up, this is it.

Mentat: If there was ever a time for a German wolf pack to show up, this is it.

They're busy sinking the HMS Courageous in the Brady Quinn threads.

Mentat: If there was ever a time for a German wolf pack to show up, this is it.

nah. this is what I keep thinking of:

IgG4: commodities markets speculators should be required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

I'm not sure they should be required to, but the business you describe goes as far back as the China/clipper tea trade, where the faster ships owned by a company would get the best price for the tea. The slower ships would be forced to accept a lower price for their cargo.

/except that oil don't spoil,

IgG4: required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

Speaking of, how's your mom doing?

For some reason, this sounds like a corporate evil villain plot..

"give me $10,000,000 dollars or i keep these tankers out at sea forever! mwhahah"

//weaver95 beat me to the concept, but i'm a self-aggrandizing narcissist who likes seeing himself type.

That's pretty damn ridiculous, I thought the headline was a joke...

Weaver95: are we sure nobody hacked the gibson?

Cubansaltyballs: What does it cost to get in the pool for how long until a terrorist/eco nut sinks one of these?

I would say I don't think there are any eco-terrorists that stupid but then you hear the story about the group that freed all the minks from a farm, forgetting the fact they're pretty vicious predators...

Where's a Somali pirate when you need one?

Somaticasual: For some reason, this sounds like a corporate evil villain plot..

"give me $10,000,000 dollars or i keep these tankers out at sea forever! mwhahah"

"Meh. More ships comin'. Call me if you run out of Ovaltine and Twinkies."

Last Chance to buy oil at $80 before the Spring lows?

IgG4: commodities markets speculators should be required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

Why?

Sun God: I'm not sure they should be required to, but the business you describe goes as far back as the China/clipper tea trade, where the faster ships owned by a company would get the best price for the tea. The slower ships would be forced to accept a lower price for their cargo.

The positive part of any speculative market is arbitrage. This is the ancient and respected process of trading - buy low in place X , sell high in place Y. Since it generally required a large layout and some personal risk, I can get on with this.

This is the reverse. People with 'too much' money (invariably borrowed) buying up a scarce commodity to manipulate the price. This is kind of the reverse process, and interferes with the 'real' pricing information transmission.

There are three things that should happen in the commodities markets :

1. Nobody gets to buy more than 50% of their order on margin. A company that regularly deals with buying fuel will be able to manage this kind of cash. a spot speculator will not.

2. All buyers and/or sellers should have a place to take receipt of the product. - a lease or a facility. This would give 'real' purchasers a leg up over speculators.

3. In the case of a toxic product like this, some world body should be collecting an insurance premium on the products when they're in transit like this. A Big fine.

Mentat: If there was ever a time for a German wolf pack to show up, this is it.

Happy Time? (new window)

They do it here (around the US), too.

/thieving bastiges!

Would it be evil to wish for a sudden storm of a cat 5 variety?

Wait, so people are getting pissed that people are stockpiling a needed commodity someplace where it will be easily available and quick to market?

The tankers are really full of "Red Matter" what ever that is.

Ah, capitalism at its finest. Couldn't this be considered a national security issue? I thought the whole foreign oil thing was heavily debated as such?

Wheres Robin Hood when you need him?

So what happens when all the tankers are full, and all land storage facilities are full? I don't think oil producing countries are going to stop production. Will the market collapse?

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: So what happens when all the tankers are full, and all land storage facilities are full? I don't think oil producing countries are going to stop production. Will the market collapse?

In my cynical world, oil-producing countries secretly lend trillions to the US Gummint, who uses the money to pump our flaccid economy and pays "news" outlets to proclaim unemployment is gone, everyone is working and the economy is roaring ahead again. Everyone buys SUV's and the price of oil triples inside of six months, effectively giving the oil-producing countries their money back and netting fat bonuses for oil company execs, and enslaving your great-grandchildren to credit cards already issued in their names.

I've had too much coffee.

It's probly' Saudi oil sitting out there in those boats, oil which cost $2 to bring out of the ground. Throw in some double's for refining, storage, transport and such, and that sh*t should be hitting land for $20, tops!!

biglot: It's probly' Saudi oil sitting out there in those boats, oil which cost $2 to bring out of the ground. Throw in some double's for refining, storage, transport and such, and that sh*t should be hitting land for $20, tops!!

But who wants to do that when you can manipulate the market with scary news stories and such and bring it in for ~$100

This is an ecological disaster waiting to happen.

EatHam: IgG4: commodities markets speculators should be required to take delivery of the commodities as soon as the deal settles.

Why?

Because we now let idiots make arbitrary rules that suit their fancy. Didn't you hear?

You mean beyond this, when I stand in line with 50 million other people to buy an Ipod the price isnt going to get cheaper with the more people who join the line?

Whos laughing at supply side economics now!

abigsmurf: I would say I don't think there are any eco-terrorists that stupid but then you hear the story about the group that freed all the minks from a farm, forgetting the fact they're pretty vicious predators...

Ah dude, source this please? Not that I doubt you, but oh that must have read from something like the Keystone Cops. Minks are nasty vile little creatures, but their pelts do go well with blood diamonds.

Wait, wasn't this what happened in Superman II or III?

poisonedpawn78: You mean beyond this, when I stand in line with 50 million other people to buy an Ipod the price isnt going to get cheaper with the more people who join the line?

Whos laughing at supply side economics now!

Uh, that would be marketing when 50 million people line up to purchase an overpriced mp3 player.

Oil has fungibility - I might only get a banana for your ipod and nike running shoes in a south american shanty town but a barrel of oil is still worth a barrel of oil. It doesn't really matter where you park your fleet of oil tankers.

Would it not be more profitable to make 3 deliveries than to wait 3 months for a 10% price increase?

Supply and Demand:
based on the tea example, that much oil comming to port at one time would increase supply dramatically in a short amount of time, thus driving prices down.
The first ships to unload would get the higher price, while the last ships would get a lower price for their cargo.

PsyLord: Ah, capitalism at its finest. Couldn't this be considered a national security issue? I thought the whole foreign oil thing was heavily debated as such?

If a President can kill railroad workers for striking, Obama can send some Seals to raid and take control of these vessels.

/Not really in favor of that, though I'm sure some of you would be.

Doesn't time = money anymore? If I was one of the ship captains I would unload my cargo now and flip the other boats the bird as I hurried off to get my next load. By the time the other jerks have unloaded I would already be a cargo ahead.

Somaticasual
For some reason, this sounds like a corporate evil villain plot..

StarshipPooper
Wait, wasn't this what happened in Superman II or III?

Yes, III

Our fully laden tankers! Where are they? Answer that one, Herr Goering! The British have plenty of them! Talking big is all he's good for, that fat slob.

Tavernknight: Doesn't time = money anymore? If I was one of the ship captains I would unload my cargo now and flip the other boats the bird as I hurried off to get my next load. By the time the other jerks have unloaded I would already be a cargo ahead.

They aren't like independent truckers: They don't own the ship, they have to do what the ship owner says. They are just the driver. So if the shipping company is being paid by the oil companies to just park the thing fully loaded, then the captain has two choices: Get paid for essentially doing nothing, or quit.

Which one would you choose?

D135: Would it not be more profitable to make 3 deliveries than to wait 3 months for a 10% price increase?

Supply and Demand:
based on the tea example, that much oil comming to port at one time would increase supply dramatically in a short amount of time, thus driving prices down.
The first ships to unload would get the higher price, while the last ships would get a lower price for their cargo.

It depends on how many barrels you can hold on the boat and how much you anticipate the price increasing.

I'm not sure what people are biatching about. Are you really advocating that if you have possession of an item that you intend to sell someday that the government should force you to do it at a time you deem inopportune? Is that really a door you want to open?

This is what happens when you find tankers full of gas!

sparkmysmeg: poisonedpawn78: You mean beyond this, when I stand in line with 50 million other people to buy an Ipod the price isnt going to get cheaper with the more people who join the line?

Whos laughing at supply side economics now!

Uh, that would be marketing when 50 million people line up to purchase an overpriced mp3 player.
.

Marketing or not the price should change as more people joined the line. Especially with economies of scale. An Ipod is not a perfectly inelastic good.

Let's ask Gray Davis to see if it's believable that the price of energy can be tinkered with.

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