Unfarkingbelievable.

Well, at last count there were 297 pages of reviews on this place -- mostly because of the story, of course. The reviews prior to the news story weren't that great before anyway.

Woops, it ate my link. Insert the words "on Yelp.com" somewhere in my comment above.

From what I hear, I side with the diners. When you have to get your own silverware, yeah, no tip from me either.

"Mandatory gratuity" is a contradiction in terms.

I have dined in "nice" places that were so absurdly slow that I gave up and brought my guest's their water and drink orders directly from the bar.

I am also guilty of entering the kitchen to fetch entrees and busing tables when things got pathetic service wise.

Service is just that. Service.

If you have to take matters into your own hands to assure your guest's a decent evening so be it.

Asinine tag must be for the mandatory gratuity, because these people should get the hero tag. Wait staff are not entitled to an 18 per cent tip simply because of party size; they still have to SERVE the party.

By the way, this is the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Repeat, the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Gosling: By the way, this is the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Repeat, the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Then I side with the business on this. What sort of service do you expect from a "pub"????
It's a Pubic House after all. Get your own damn eating utensils and yeah, your order of hotwings might take awhile because we got 50 orders ahead of you.

Now if this had happened at Chez Louis, I'd be more sympathetic.
But, you and a group of friends going to a bar with food anywhere, expecting quality service?
Give me a break. Next thing you know, you'll be wanting to not pay taxes after Obama fails to deliver on any major election promise.

If it's mandatory, then it's not a gratuity.

That's just like compulsory volunteering.

GreenAdder: If it's mandatory, then it's not a gratuity.

That's just like compulsory volunteering.

Or as a soldier friend of mine calls it, "voluntold".

Ohh, and one more thing...

The establishment had the mandatory gratuity terms clearly printed on the menu.
That is an implied contract that they agreed upon by ordering food.

So ya, fark them. You want classy service? Go to a classy joint. Dont go to some sports bar and expect anything but schlock. Especially one that has a tip minimum... but being sport-bars (aka "pubs" that serve food), I could see why they'd want to gouge a rabble of rowdy jocks an extra 15% just for breathing through their mouths and groping the waitstaff.

rcain: It's a Pubic House after all.

Giggity!

You want a tip? Get a better paying job. I dont get more money just for doing what is in my job description.

Arrested? ARRESTED and charged with theft, though? After the pub supposedly offered (retroactively) to comp the food because of bad service? Fark this pub.

Mandatory gratuities are a goddamn scam. If you want to charge me ~20% of the bill then just jack your prices up 20%.

The couple sound like whiny douchebags but it does not justify robbing them for 18% of the bill.


The customers are the ones getting robbed here regardless of whatever kind of service you should expect in a busy pub.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most eateries have some sort of mandatory gratuity for parties larger than X? (Full disclosure, delivery driver here.) Seems to me, if one person is waiting on a party of 8 or more, they're busing hump to get 8 different orders out, drinks, entrees, etc. So, yeah, give it to 'em.

That's in general, by the way...I dnrta, so I dunno about this case.

rcain: Ohh, and one more thing...

The establishment had the mandatory gratuity terms clearly printed on the menu.
That is an implied contract that they agreed upon by ordering food.

So ya, fark them. You want classy service? Go to a classy joint. Dont go to some sports bar and expect anything but schlock. Especially one that has a tip minimum... but being sport-bars (aka "pubs" that serve food), I could see why they'd want to gouge a rabble of rowdy jocks an extra 15% just for breathing through their mouths and groping the waitstaff.

You sound like a bitter incompetent waiter.

mugachino: You want a tip? Get a better paying job. I dont get more money just for doing what is in my job description.

Or - and here's a radical idea - how about raising minimum wage so that it's actually somewhat decent and not taxing tips?

They called the cops?! Way to go making your pub's crappy service into a news story. That's some marketing genius.

Shedim, last I knew in the U.S., minimum wage does NOT apply to waitstaff jobs. And yeah, tips should NEVER be taxable.

Once again Farkers have to put the pieces together;

The photo shows them to be a coupla average joes, probably with average manners - I'm guessing some friction compounded between staff and customers; overworked, pissed-off staff perform the absolute minimum required, provoke customers into doing something they will later regret, and, hey presto! Nobody wins.

/don't try the veal, and forget to tip your waitress

Tabini: Shedim, last I knew in the U.S., minimum wage does NOT apply to waitstaff jobs. And yeah, tips should NEVER be taxable.

... wut?
No, seriously, how can it NOT apply? Do they not think it's a job?

Gosling: By the way, this is the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Repeat, the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

This is Lehigh Lafayette weekend. The place is either going to get a ton of business regardless of bad press, or get totally, totally trashed.

Maybe both.

This place must be fairly new though. I'm pretty sure there wasn't a pub there when I left ('06).

Superevil: i25.photobucket.com

i've done this. they weren't very appreciative of my message.

Shedim: Tabini: Shedim, last I knew in the U.S., minimum wage does NOT apply to waitstaff jobs. And yeah, tips should NEVER be taxable.

... wut?
No, seriously, how can it NOT apply? Do they not think it's a job?

This conversation happens in every tip thread, but the tipping brings their wage up above minimum. If it doesn't, the restaurant is required to cover the difference up to minimum. It's generally a non-issue, because most people tip pretty well and even in shiatty places the wait staff usually makes at least twice what the lower end of the kitchen staff does.

FTA: "The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened."

Um... If you had offered to comp the food there wouldn't have been anything to arrest them for?

rcain: What sort of service do you expect from a "pub"????

What sort of tip should a pub expect? Oh right, one for the service.

Tabini: Shedim, last I knew in the U.S., minimum wage does NOT apply to waitstaff jobs. And yeah, tips should NEVER be taxable.

Minimum wage applies to them. If they don't get enough in tips to equal the standard minimum wage, the employer is supposed to make up the difference.

There was a court case about exactly the same thing a couple of years ago in NYC. The court ruled in favor of the diners. Of course that was NY law so it may not apply, but I still doubt this will hold in court.

A lot of places I've been to will remove the automatic gratuity for large parties if asked.

If it is called a "gratuity" on the bill, it doesn't have to be paid and the inclusion of it on a bill is a felony.

If it is labeled "service", however, it is required.

Yes, they went to jail, it's a required 18%, not paying it is theft.
Poor service? Don't go back.

Doggiewoggie: Arrested? ARRESTED and charged with theft, though? After the pub supposedly offered (retroactively) to comp the food because of bad service? Fark this pub.

That right there indicates that the pub is full of shiat and should be charged with filing a false report.

Pub: Sorry for the bad service, we will provide the meals gratis
Couple: No, we refuse to pay $0
Pub: OH, you won't give me 0? I'm calling the police for failure to pay me nothing.

Most menus indicate that an Automatic gratuity will be added. It is impossible to add a mandatory gratuity. It IS possible to add a mandatory FEE, but certainly not a gratuity.

Shedim: ... wut?
No, seriously, how can it NOT apply? Do they not think it's a job?

Most wait staff do not get anywhere close to minimum wage. It's more like two dollars an hour, and the bulk of their pay is expected to be made up by tips. This is reflected in the US tax code, as well.

Wait staff are also expected to split their tips with those who bus the tables in many establishments.

Unless the service is bad, I always tip in restaurants and bars. Wait staff have to put up with a lot of crap from the customers and they have to take it and smile because their livelihood is dependent on tips.

Mandatory gratuity? Understandable for large groups, but I'll take my business elsewhere if the mandatory gratuity applies to all customers regardless of group size.

They could have received farked service, ponied up the mandatory gratuity without realizing it was on the bill, and still have left behind a tip on the table.
Better yet, they could have received the 'extra mayo' service Jeremy Butler gave the biatchy old lady who ordered a white meat turkey sandwich on white bread in the porn classic Raw Talent. bon appetit, motherfarker.

When it gets that appallingly bad on the service side, how do you NOT call the manager over? I realize some people just grin and bear it vowing never to return - but if you're willing to say "fark you" to the mandatory gratuity, surely you're past the grin and bear it stage.

And for some reason "mandatory gratuity" is making my brain think of the times that my wife (or me maybe once a year) has sex even when not really feeling up to it but the other person is "READY" in that, uh its been like 6 days honey, andineedanorgasmnow kinda way.

I'm sure fark will spin out a new phrase to add to the vernacular.

T.M.S.: I have dined in "nice" places that were so absurdly slow that I gave up and brought my guest's their water and drink orders directly from the bar.

I am also guilty of entering the kitchen to fetch entrees and busing tables when things got pathetic service wise....

Ok the drinks from the bar I can beleive...but actually going into a kitchen to get your own stuff? BS! They would have run you out of there unless you happen to be an employee who was off the clock...

Wait, so he escaped and got married?

prjindigo: If it is called a "gratuity" on the bill, it doesn't have to be paid and the inclusion of it on a bill is a felony.

If it is labeled "service", however, it is required.

"citation needed"

If you have to wait more than 5-10 minutes for service just leave. There is a reason an automatic gratuity is added. Large groups tend to be demanding, messy and measly with tips.

Most menus mention an "automatic gratuity." I side with the restaurant. Management offered to comp the meal.

I'm the "catch all" guy at the restaurant I work at, I cook, prep, clean, everything but wait and host, but in particular I handle the takeout/delivery orders. I handle each aspect of a single order if I can help it.

The management takes on an 18% gratuity for the delivery charge which goes to the driver (usually me) which we (usually me) make a point to inform the customer on before I even ring the order through. It IS negotiable, but people who demand the delivery be free and then stiff the driver (not usually me) receive a call from the manager. If the reason is not good enough for the manager, then the customer is put on a "no delivery" list. So far, we've only had one trouble customer.

The severity of the 18% depends on the order. When it's a burger and fries we're only talking a couple of bucks, but when you've got steaks, appetizers, and dessert for four, well, then it adds up.

Mind you, if you think 18% is a lot, we're talking about a restaurant where the waitstaff averages nearly 20% in tips, the highest I think currently does near 25%, we're dealing with some great people here.

Wenchmaster: Shedim: ... wut?
No, seriously, how can it NOT apply? Do they not think it's a job?

Most wait staff do not get anywhere close to minimum wage. It's more like two dollars an hour, and the bulk of their pay is expected to be made up by tips. This is reflected in the US tax code, as well.

Wait staff are also expected to split their tips with those who bus the tables in many establishments.

Unless the service is bad, I always tip in restaurants and bars. Wait staff have to put up with a lot of crap from the customers and they have to take it and smile because their livelihood is dependent on tips.

Mandatory gratuity? Understandable for large groups, but I'll take my business elsewhere if the mandatory gratuity applies to all customers regardless of group size.

If you aren't pulling in a boatload of cash from tips, even after splitting it (and certainly not at 50/50) to put you well above minimum wage then there are only two possible conclusions:

1. You work at a shiatty restaurant.
2. You provide shiatty service.

I've NEVER seen a competent waiter pull a very decent wage for what might be a shift that is much shorter than a 40 hr work week while working at a decent restaurant.

That's all the criteria there is, competent waiter, decent restaurant.

OH and if those tips are in cash? Yeah, like 100% of that is being reported to the IRS.

/Former waiter.

Yay, tipping thread...

Shedim: Tabini: Shedim, last I knew in the U.S., minimum wage does NOT apply to waitstaff jobs. And yeah, tips should NEVER be taxable.

... wut?
No, seriously, how can it NOT apply? Do they not think it's a job?

And that it isn't money? Why should someone get their earnings tax-free because they work in a restaurant?

Mandatory gratuity. Is that an oxymoron?

correction to my post:

I've never seen a competent waiter fail to pull a very decent wage...

The couple needs to lawyer up and sue the greasy spoon.

*NOTE TO SELF: In the unlikely event I go to Bethlehem, PA, NEVAR go to the Lehigh Pub*

A gratuity is something given for good service. You don't give good service, you shouldn't expect a tip. It's not rocket science, folks. That being said, I would no more eat at a place with compulsary tipping than I'd eat at a place with a sign saying "Free E-coli with every order!"

TheDeathMerchant: I'm the "catch all" guy at the restaurant I work at, I cook, prep, clean, everything but wait and host, but in particular I handle the takeout/delivery orders. I handle each aspect of a single order if I can help it.

The management takes on an 18% gratuity for the delivery charge which goes to the driver (usually me) which we (usually me) make a point to inform the customer on before I even ring the order through. It IS negotiable, but people who demand the delivery be free and then stiff the driver (not usually me) receive a call from the manager. If the reason is not good enough for the manager, then the customer is put on a "no delivery" list. So far, we've only had one trouble customer.

The severity of the 18% depends on the order. When it's a burger and fries we're only talking a couple of bucks, but when you've got steaks, appetizers, and dessert for four, well, then it adds up.

Mind you, if you think 18% is a lot, we're talking about a restaurant where the waitstaff averages nearly 20% in tips, the highest I think currently does near 25%, we're dealing with some great people here.

is that 25% on top of the 18% or 7% more? some might not realize a tip percentage was already included in the total... i wouldn't tip if it was already included.