Well now that's interesting. I'd much rather have a poll that asked what the people *thought* was IN the damn bill. How many responded that they had actually READ it? I have...and I can see good and not so good in it. But overall, doing nothing is going to be catastrophic.

Sure, lets scrap the bill and go single payer without that stupid abortion ban.

Then you'll see that number go up.

iamgoz: But overall, doing nothing is going to be catastrophic.

Catastrophic how? Can you be specific? I for one enjoy catastrophes and might enjoy watching this one unfold. I enjoy it when large numbers of people die. Are we talking mass deaths here? So large that they'll just bulldoze the bodies into mass graves? Or are you just using hyperbole to make people sit up and take notice of of health care reform? If that is it you will have to do better than that to wake people up, you need something on the order of "death panels" to light a fire under those folks who are happy with the status quo. Vague talk of catastrophe is not going to be effective here.

iamgoz: How many responded that they had actually READ it?

Probably in the low single digits, and not for insufficient time to do so. I'm guessing the vast majority of non-Congresspeople have no intention of ever reading it. They know someone else is supposed to and will summarize it for them, so they don't feel the need to.

And even if they tried, it's legalese. Lots of legalese. Even if you READ it, you wouldn't UNDERSTAND it. I count myself as one of those people. I can and have read things of that length. (Damn you, David Wallechinsky and your Olympic history books.) But it'd be gibberish. I don't speak law.

Subby, that song goes "nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I guess I'll go eat worms" and according to your numbers, 3/4ths of Americans like him as a person. You can't even interpret a song for children correctly, let alone the nuances of American politics.

SnakeLee: Subby, that song goes "nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I guess I'll go eat worms" and according to your numbers, 3/4ths of Americans like him as a person. You can't even interpret a song for children correctly, let alone the nuances of American politics.

Perhaps the correct song for this story would be Garden Party by Ricky Nelson. Then Obama would go to that little side office just off the Oval Office and "please himself".

With the 10% unemployment rate I'm sure a lot of formerly "happy with the status quo" folks out there are going to find out what catastrophic is.

I like Obama as our President. I don't know him as a person, really.

I like his policies for the most part, but I do wish he'd get with the ass-kickings that Wall Street needs. I understand that he's trying to stabilize things before he begins the ass-kickings, but I think the ass-kickings should begin now. Other people wish he'd get with some other policies (like repealing DADT or the DOMA thing, and I understand their frustration that these things haven't been revised yet.

The house health-care bill leaves a lot to be desired, for sure. However, it's the bill of the Legislative Branch, not the Executive Branch. They're the ones responsible for writing it, and they're the ones responsible for farking it up. The Democrats are responsible for watering it down too much, and the Republicans are responsible for being whiny-biatch babies about the whole thing.

jwa007: I enjoy it when large numbers of people die. Are we talking mass deaths here? So large that they'll just bulldoze the bodies into mass graves?

Well, I suppose you could bury the 44000 Americans that die every year for lack of health insurance in a mass grave, if you were so inclined. Certainly more of a catastrophe, numbers-wise, than 9/11 or either of our two current wars. But hey, it's mostly poor people dying, and everyone knows they're invisible and don't really matter. Good to see you enjoy it though.

iamgoz: How many responded that they had actually READ it?

I sort of wonder how many people in congress have read it.

It shocks me how well this tactic works.

They label health care reform "ObamaCare". People think for a second (but no longer), realize that Obama is a lawyer, not a doctor, and decide that it's crazy to turn over their health care to him.

Never mind that a) health care decisions under single-payer, a public option, or whatever ends up happening would continue to be between the patient and doctor since all the government does is act as the insurer, b) the plan may be endorsed by Obama but ultimately the details are being hammered out by Congress, and c) the people most swayed by this argument are people who don't like to think about things too much, and they would stand to benefit the most from competition from the government -- because as it stands now they probably haven't paid any attention to all the fine print and legal gobbledygook in their policy and probably could get a much better deal from another insurer or the government if only it was easy to compare.

Racht: jwa007: I enjoy it when large numbers of people die. Are we talking mass deaths here? So large that they'll just bulldoze the bodies into mass graves?

Well, I suppose you could bury the 44000 Americans that die every year for lack of health insurance in a mass grave, if you were so inclined. Certainly more of a catastrophe, numbers-wise, than 9/11 or either of our two current wars. But hey, it's mostly poor people dying, and everyone knows they're invisible and don't really matter. Good to see you enjoy it though.

So about 7,000 more than die in traffic accidents every year. Your not really impressing me here, nor are you going to impress those who are happy with the way things are. 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage. Those are the people you have got to get fired up about this. Look at how effective Palin and the Republicans were with "death panels". That soared. Yes it was stupid, but it was effective also. So you seem, at this point, to using catastrophic for shock value.

jwa007: 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage.

Citation needed. Please explain how the sample was achieved. Fortune 500 emplyee directory? Did they poll people standing in the unemployment line? Did they call folks on cell phones or land lines? Or did you pull this number out of your trolling ass?

jwa007: 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage.

This is misleading. I'm happy with my current coverage, but I'm worried about what might happen to my coverage in the future. Most people who haven't had a serious health problem might be currently happy with their coverage, but once they start having claims denied for preexisting conditions that coverage won't seem so great anymore.

I'd like him better if he delivered on a few of his campaign promises

iamgoz: jwa007: 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage.

Citation needed. Please explain how the sample was achieved. Fortune 500 emplyee directory? Did they poll people standing in the unemployment line? Did they call folks on cell phones or land lines? Or did you pull this number out of your trolling ass?

Also, I'm pretty sure that at least 11% of Americans are uninsured (and I'm almost certain that number is higher), so it would mean that every single person with insurance was satisfied with their health care. There is no way that is true. It would also mean that people who were uninsured were satisfied with that.

jwa007: 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage.

Link? I've got pretty good health insurance (Compared to what most Americans have), and I certainly wouldn't say that I'm happy with it.

hot air suddenly doesn't like corporate welfare?

I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

Are worms considered halal?

lethargically frisky: I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

1/10

Go home, read some Friedman, Buckley and Rand, and get back to us.

Racht: Well, I suppose you could bury the 44000 Americans that die every year for lack of health insurance in a mass grave,

* This statistic was brought to you by the Institute of Pulling Numbers Out of Our Ass.

jwa007: 89% of Americans are happy with their current coverage.

Is that 89% of people that have insurance already or is that including those that don't have coverage. Are those without coverage happy that they don't have coverage. Also, citation needed, dumbass.

Citation (new window)

The story is on a Fox New Site, but the poll was conducted by Kaiser Family Foundation, ABC News and USA Today. 44% of those with no health insurance are happy with their coverage also. You may not believe this, but I'm not against health care reform I'm just saying it is not going to happen unless you get folks as fired up about it as the Republicans have managed to get the tea-baggers fired up. Folks are happy with the status quo right now. And loosely firing off terms like catastrophic are not going to do the job.

iamgoz: Well now that's interesting. I'd much rather have a poll that asked what the people *thought* was IN the damn bill. How many responded that they had actually READ it? I have...and I can see good and not so good in it. But overall, doing nothing is going to be catastrophic.

This is doing nothing to avert the catastrophe, so that's a pretty stupid line of reasoning you have there.

sepuku2: Racht: Well, I suppose you could bury the 44000 Americans that die every year for lack of health insurance in a mass grave,

* This statistic was brought to you by the Institute of Pulling Numbers Out of Our Ass.

It's a study done by American Journal of Public Health: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/AJPH.2008.157685v1

I trust that more than HotAir numbers.

jwa007: Kaiser Family Foundation

Honest question: Any relation to Kaiser Permanente Insurance?

Subby: If you need him, he'll be in the Rose Garden eating worms

Nice... Post the precise location of the President in a forum that could be accessed by terrorists. Stay classy, Submittard. wat

jwa007: Citation (new window)

The story is on a Fox New Site, but the poll was conducted by Kaiser Family Foundation, ABC News and USA Today. 44% of those with no health insurance are happy with their coverage also. You may not believe this, but I'm not against health care reform I'm just saying it is not going to happen unless you get folks as fired up about it as the Republicans have managed to get the tea-baggers fired up. Folks are happy with the status quo right now. And loosely firing off terms like catastrophic are not going to do the job.

From your link:

A survey conducted jointly by the Kaiser Family Foundation, ABC News and USA Today, released in October 2006, found that 89 percent of Americans were satisfied with their own personal medical care, but only 44 percent were satisfied with the overall quality of the American medical system.

I bolded the part that you're ignoring.

lethargically frisky: I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

Fark you, that's why.

Barbigazi: Sure, lets scrap the bill and go single payer without that stupid abortion ban.

Then you'll see that number go up.

It's so cute that you think that, considering that's precisely the opposite of what would happen.

Wendy's Chili: lethargically frisky: I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

1/10

Go home, read some Friedman, Buckley and Rand, and get back to us.

Let me rephrase this. I saw what needed to be done and what I had to do to achieve these goals. So I did that. If I'm smart enough to take care of myself why does that mean I need to pay for someone else?

And don't try to quote or pass authors to me, it makes you look like a pretentious a**hole

lethargically frisky: Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

If you're healthy, where do you think your current insurance is going? You're having money taken away from you to pay for other people, that's fo sho.

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: lethargically frisky: I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

Fark you, that's why.

I guess you're one of the people who thinks I should just give you stuff huh?

lethargically frisky: I tried and studied hard in high school, finished in the top 5% of my class.
I went to college and got a degree, it was difficult but I tried and did well.
I went to work and developed a skill that made me valuable to my company.
I make enough money to pay for myself and my own health insurance and my retirement.

Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

Because the "Participant" Trophy winners among us are projecting their guilt.

relcec: This is doing nothing to avert the catastrophe, so that's a pretty stupid line of reasoning you have there.


Do you have anything constructive to say or are you just going to lament the decline of our once-great-republic and blame libruls?

I'm sure everybody would like to hear your innovative solution to the problem of 40 million uninsured Americans.

Also, the INSURED don't have it so well either, unless you think paying $150 for a 5-minute consultation and a prescription is A-OK! ($1200 deductible for a CT scan...$1200 to lay in a machine that paid for itself in the first 6-months it operated...)

I'm gonna get like 15 abortions just to piss of Republicans

pacified: I'm gonna get like 15 abortions just to piss off Republicans

FTFM

elchip: lethargically frisky: Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

If you're healthy, where do you think your current insurance is going? You're having money taken away from you to pay for other people, that's fo sho.

I know but I also pay it for the unexpected like car wrecks and random stabbings and stuff. Also I'm fine paying it now. I don't want it to go up.

Gosling: Probably in the low single digits

Including Congresspersons.

Fewer than half know his policies or only think they do based on email forwards.

iamgoz: With the 10% unemployment rate

You know that is just the number for people claiming unemployment benefits. We have higher than 10% unemployment.

ddam: I bolded the part that you're ignoring.

What does that have to do with health care reform? This is not going to make major changes in the medical system. It is an attempt to provide coverage for all, simply by punishing those who do not have health insurance. It is not going to change the medical system. And with 44% satisfied with the way the medical system works where is the strong voice calling for reform? Where is it? You aren't getting it. You make want health care reform but there is a farking large number of people out there, your fellow citizens, who don't give a rat's ass if it gets reformed. I'm not your enemy here moron, I'm pointing out problems with the health care reform movement, or whatever you want to call it. Jesus H Christ in a Chicken Basket are all liberals as thick headed and just outright farking stupid as those that post to Fark? You want change? You got to sing loud, you want change the world you want to make it a better place? Stop whining and get people fired up about this. I'm being critical of your tactics and delivery, not your cause.

lethargically frisky: elchip: lethargically frisky: Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

If you're healthy, where do you think your current insurance is going? You're having money taken away from you to pay for other people, that's fo sho.

I know but I also pay it for the unexpected like car wrecks and random stabbings and stuff. Also I'm fine paying it now. I don't want it to go up.


CBO says it will go down with reform, not up.

pacified: I'm gonna get like 15 abortions just to piss of Republicans

Ask your mother to start with yours.

Yes, a modified Delorean will be required.

For those too lazy, here's the URL to the actual study they are on about in that FOX article. Judge for youself...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-15-health-poll2.htm

/sorry, work won't allow for my linkies

lethargically frisky: elchip: lethargically frisky: Why should I have more money taken away from me to pay for some one who didn't try?

If you're healthy, where do you think your current insurance is going? You're having money taken away from you to pay for other people, that's fo sho.

I know but I also pay it for the unexpected like car wrecks and random stabbings and stuff. Also I'm fine paying it now. I don't want it to go up.

Your line of reasoning for opposing reform is that your rates would go up? *pats head* OK, keep telling yourself that. If there's a public option insurance companies wouldn't have to charge you so much money because they could then deny coverage to the truly sick and needy, foist them off on the public option, and protect their shareholders' profits. It should be a win-win! Now if they truly ARE run by greedy bastards who have no interest in actually providing the services promised then yeah, your rates go up.

jwa007: ddam: I bolded the part that you're ignoring.

What does that have to do with health care reform? This is not going to make major changes in the medical system. It is an attempt to provide coverage for all, simply by punishing those who do not have health insurance. It is not going to change the medical system. And with 44% satisfied with the way the medical system works where is the strong voice calling for reform? Where is it? You aren't getting it. You make want health care reform but there is a farking large number of people out there, your fellow citizens, who don't give a rat's ass if it gets reformed. I'm not your enemy here moron, I'm pointing out problems with the health care reform movement, or whatever you want to call it. Jesus H Christ in a Chicken Basket are all liberals as thick headed and just outright farking stupid as those that post to Fark? You want change? You got to sing loud, you want change the world you want to make it a better place? Stop whining and get people fired up about this. I'm being critical of your tactics and delivery, not your cause.

So more customers won't change anything? Huh...

pacified: pacified: I'm gonna get like 15 abortions just to piss off Republicans

FTFM

You do that, Bob.