The springy, lightweight, J-shaped limbs called "Cheetahs' allow Pistorius to attain the same sprinting speeds with 20 per cent less ground force than able-bodied runners and reduce to less than half the muscle force required for sprinting, the researchers said.

What they don't say in that whole article is whether he can actually *RUN* faster than other sprinters.

If he can attain the same speed with 20% less ground force, and less than half the muscle force, but he has half the muscle available and biomechanically it's more difficult for him to run smoothly because he doesn't have the advantage of controllable knees, ankles, and toes, then I'd say it's a wash.

dittybopper: The springy, lightweight, J-shaped limbs called "Cheetahs' allow Pistorius to attain the same sprinting speeds with 20 per cent less ground force than able-bodied runners and reduce to less than half the muscle force required for sprinting, the researchers said.

What they don't say in that whole article is whether he can actually *RUN* faster than other sprinters.

If he can attain the same speed with 20% less ground force, and less than half the muscle force, but he has half the muscle available and biomechanically it's more difficult for him to run smoothly because he doesn't have the advantage of controllable knees, ankles, and toes, then I'd say it's a wash.

He's not faster than other olympic runners. It said he failed to qualify for the 2008 olympics. Either this is due to the reasons you listed, or he's just a mediocre athlete who could be setting a precedent that will become important in the future. You're shouldn't be allowed to cheat (this might be too harsh of a word for this particular circumstance) just because you don't win.

dittybopper: The springy, lightweight, J-shaped limbs called "Cheetahs' allow Pistorius to attain the same sprinting speeds with 20 per cent less ground force than able-bodied runners and reduce to less than half the muscle force required for sprinting, the researchers said.

What they don't say in that whole article is whether he can actually *RUN* faster than other sprinters.

If he can attain the same speed with 20% less ground force, and less than half the muscle force, but he has half the muscle available and biomechanically it's more difficult for him to run smoothly because he doesn't have the advantage of controllable knees, ankles, and toes, then I'd say it's a wash.

It's an athletic competition. All the competitors need to be allowed to use the same equipment for the competition to be a fair measure of athletic skill.

Whether or not this man is faster than his competitors is irrelevant.

If I ran against an Olympic marathon runner and got to start in the middle while he had to start at the beginning, he'd still beat me, because I don't run fast. But I would still have had an unfair advantage.

Zombie Neurosurgeon: ...or he's just a mediocre athlete who could be setting a precedent that will become important in the future. You're shouldn't be allowed to cheat (this might be too harsh of a word for this particular circumstance) just because you don't win.

Well, the issue with prosthesis design currently is in enabling formerly disabled individuals to regain their lost capabilities. Soon though, prosthetics will be able to surpass our own capabilities through more efficient design and energy transfer. If I recall, the mechanics of these legs are not such that you get more motive force out of them but rather the user is capable of a significantly quicker stride. While the guy might not be able to qualify for the Olympics (and it was just barely), its probably time to set a precedent to prevent artificial augmentation from dominating the Olympics.

Otherwise, as these prosthetics become less of an inconvenience in everyday function, twenty years out we could see people replacing parts of their body with mechanically superior parts in order to gain an advantage in competition. One can easily imagine a country with an unscrupulous attitude toward their athletes (like China and their gymnasts for instance) purposefully modifying their citizens in order to win medals. It's probably good that we try to solve these issues before they become more controversial.

Larry Mahnken: It's an athletic competition. All the competitors need to be allowed to use the same equipment for the competition to be a fair measure of athletic skill.

That is why Nike shares their swim suit technology with the world during the olympics, eh?

Poor Little Tink Tink.

At some point in the future, we'll have voluntary cyborgs- people who choose to replace parts of their bodies to gain some sort of advantage.

Just create a new division of sport for people with "enhanced" limbs. We've already got the paralympics and the tardlympics, after all. There is precedent for expanding the scope of competition.

FuturePastNow: At some point in the future, we'll have voluntary cyborgs- people who choose to replace parts of their bodies to gain some sort of advantage.

Just create a new division of sport for people with "enhanced" limbs. We've already got the paralympics and the tardlympics, after all. There is precedent for expanding the scope of competition.

For people who are constantly 'running' late?

TheShizzler: its probably time to set a precedent to prevent artificial augmentation from dominating the Olympics.

Or we could have two Olympics : Modified and Natural. I for one would definitely like to see juiced-up cyborgs compete against each other for the world's entertainment.

There's precedent. Compare wheelchair marathon times to the men's times. In Boston, that's 1:18 to 2:07. The very first wheelchair competitor "ran" 2:20, a record at the time. It's an advantage in a marathon to not have legs.

Now the wheelchair marathoners want to divide up the wheelchair competition between those who have complete bodies, and those who have amputations, since the amputees have an advantage by not dragging legs with them. A paraplegic hasn't won in years.

rytheran: Larry Mahnken: It's an athletic competition. All the competitors need to be allowed to use the same equipment for the competition to be a fair measure of athletic skill.

That is why Nike shares their swim suit technology with the world during the olympics, eh?

Being allowed to use the same equipment and being given the same equipment are not the same thing.

Larry Mahnken: Being allowed to use the same equipment and being given the same equipment are not the same thing.

In the original games, the athletes competed naked and oiled. People might pay to see that.

What none of the articles about Pistorius has mentioned is that for a double below-knee amputee the change in his biomechanics makes him need 100%-200% more energy (not sure of the actual numbers. I remember that a bilateral above knee is 300% more energy, this is reaching back to college biomechanics) to complete the same locomotor activities as an able bodied individual.

the claimed 15%-20% leg speed advantage doesn't appear to be able to fully compensate in any case (he's not olympic caliber yet)

rytheran: Giggity

Yeah, but there's also men's Greco-Roman wrestling in the higher weight classes.

Zombie Neurosurgeon: TheShizzler: its probably time to set a precedent to prevent artificial augmentation from dominating the Olympics.

Or we could have two Olympics : Modified and Natural. I for one would definitely like to see juiced-up cyborgs compete against each other for the world's entertainment.



All of which, of course, is perfectly legal here at the All-Drug Olympics.

I think this is kind of like gay marriage. For the record, I don't care about gay marriage one way or another, but the reason I say they are similar is this:

This (being able to use Lt. Dan's magic legs) does not give legless athletes the same opportunity to compete as legged (?) athletes. It is a different thing, an additional thing. For it to be the same legged athletes would have the ability to wear those spring things.

The reason I say it is like gay marriage is because proponents of both say it is to give a certain portion of the community equal rights (or opportunities). It is not giving them equal rights, it is granting them an additional right. Right now amputees can use these splints (I don't know what to call them), non-amputees can not. That is an additional right. Just like if you give a gay person the right to marry someone of the same sex, that is an additional right, since no one (gay or straight) can currently do that (in most of the country.)

This is not a troll, and like I posted above I don't care about gay marriage (I actually care more about the running shoe horn things), but it is giving a group additional rights.

Wise_Guy: FuturePastNow: At some point in the future, we'll have voluntary cyborgs- people who choose to replace parts of their bodies to gain some sort of advantage.

Just create a new division of sport for people with "enhanced" limbs. We've already got the paralympics and the tardlympics, after all. There is precedent for expanding the scope of competition.

For people who are constantly 'running' late?

No, that would be the tardylympics.

/disapproves

pandabear: rytheran: Giggity

Yeah, but there's also men's Greco-Roman wrestling in the higher weight classes.

Lance DeLune approves. (GIS has failed me)

Can in for the tink tink reference.. can now leave happy.

tink tink tink tink

Please have his name be Matt or Russell
Please have his name be Matt or Russell
Please have his name be Matt or Russell
Please have his name be Matt or Russell

JC

Condemned to a watery grave with a captain who's legless-
-Rubbish! I've hardly touched a drop.


No, no. I mean you haven't got any legs.
-Oh, yes, you're right there. Carry on, sorry.

You ain't got no legs.

mjbok: I think this is kind of like gay marriage. For the record, I don't care about gay marriage one way or another, but the reason I say they are similar is this:

This (being able to use Lt. Dan's magic legs) does not give legless athletes the same opportunity to compete as legged (?) athletes. It is a different thing, an additional thing. For it to be the same legged athletes would have the ability to wear those spring things.

The reason I say it is like gay marriage is because proponents of both say it is to give a certain portion of the community equal rights (or opportunities). It is not giving them equal rights, it is granting them an additional right. Right now amputees can use these splints (I don't know what to call them), non-amputees can not. That is an additional right. Just like if you give a gay person the right to marry someone of the same sex, that is an additional right, since no one (gay or straight) can currently do that (in most of the country.)

This is not a troll, and like I posted above I don't care about gay marriage (I actually care more about the running shoe horn things), but it is giving a group additional rights.

Gay marriage would grant everyone the "additional right" to marry someone of the same sex. Straight people probably aren't going to exercise that right, but they would have it just the same as the gay folks would.

Cool. Pistorius can use his springy leg things, but I get to use springy leg things too. I'm gonna buy a pair of these and start long-jumping:



Gizmodo had Aimee Mullins as a guest editor last week. Her bio claimed she "stands between 5'8" and 6'1"--depending on her mood". You cannot say that something as fundamental as the ability to tweak your height (and thus the length of your stride) does not confer an advantage to the disabled.

/Hot-link.

Dogfacedgod: Can in for the tink tink reference.. can now leave happy.

tink tink tink tink

This. tink, tink, tink, ... ... *BLAM* TINKTINKTINKTINKTINKTINK

I have been disqualified for similar reasons with my bionic penis.

Barbeaubot: Gay marriage would grant everyone the "additional right" to marry someone of the same sex. Straight people probably aren't going to exercise that right, but they would have it just the same as the gay folks would.

You are right, it is giving everyone an additional right, but it is an additional right.