That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

sunbird: That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

I still like how there's a Spider God.

sunbird: That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

Worse than Suberboy Prime punching reality? Come on. That's some weapons-grade fail right there.

Cndn Bacon: sunbird: That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

Worse than Suberboy Prime punching reality? Come on. That's some weapons-grade fail right there.

I dunno...I think Parallax was worse than that.

The English Major: sunbird: That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

I still like how there's a Spider God.

You know what's insane about it?

it's still true.

Even though Spider-Man no longer remembers it, he still is the Spider avatar. Quesada said that all of The Other still happened, so he still has those arm spikes and organic webshooters; he's just forgotten.

Some of these I had to look up out of curiosity. If this is anything to go by, Azazel is an ancient mutant and not a demon.

Punching reality is indeed pretty stupid. That's kind of like Batman tracking down the abstract concept of evil and kicking it in the stomach.

Sybarite: Some of these I had to look up out of curiosity. If this is anything to go by, Azazel is an ancient mutant and not a demon.

I thought it was an anagram for Azrael, who was either the angel of Death or Gargamel's cat. But, it's Marvel comics, so who the hell knows.

RocketRod: Don't you hate the fact that you know what "retcon" means.

Yes.

The English Major: I thought it was an anagram for Azrael, who was either the angel of Death or Gargamel's cat. But, it's Marvel comics, so who the hell knows.

I thought he was talking about that as well but he was referring to the Nightcrawler as demon retcon.

They need to learn to just let characters die off.

Cndn Bacon: The English Major: I thought it was an anagram for Azrael, who was either the angel of Death or Gargamel's cat. But, it's Marvel comics, so who the hell knows.

I thought he was talking about that as well but he was referring to the Nightcrawler as demon retcon.

Oh, shiat, I forgot about that.

*BAMF*

Pretty good list, except maybe the Jean Grey/Phoenix thing. That one was pushing it, but still a good story. The Spiderman ones are all horrible. Either pissing on the character or just making zero sense.

BatMan needs a BAT TARDIS

New characters. They need new characters.

Does this include when dead characters resurface?

Because Jason Todd coming back was retarded.

Although the worst was the whole Scarlet Spider saga. God, what a trainwreck of fail that was.

unlikely: New characters. They need new characters.

And new grown-up characters, please, as much as I like(d) the Runaways (and the Young Avengers to a lesser degree).

And preferably not a super team. A new street-level solo character.

/Anyone in the NJ area up for a Mutants & Masterminds game?
//Champions if need be.
///Villains & Vigilantes if beer is allowed.

RocketRod: Don't you hate the fact that you know what "retcon" means.

Not really, no.
Anyway, my least favorite by far is the Wolverine/Romulus thing. Because the only reason it exists is that Loeb wanted a permanent mark on Wolverine's continuity. Looking forward to someone inevitably retconning the retcon.

I'd like to know how they plan on explaining Power Girl's sudden increase in size!!!

That coward David Lopan: I'd like to know how they plan on explaining Power Girl's sudden increase in size!!!

implants

Sybarite: Some of these I had to look up out of curiosity. If this is anything to go by, Azazel is an ancient mutant and not a demon.

Azazel .. *twitches* *playing Tekken 6 at the moment* *twitch* stuipd glowy quartz dragon THING .. ! Taking up half the damn screen!

Er, sorry. Continue on with your comic book talk, everyone.

I, for one, LOVE the idea of Parallax being a separate entity. Mainly because it helped lead to the Sinestro Corp Wars, which led to Blackest Night.

And I will openly admit a total man-crush on Geoff Johns for his GL run.

That coward David Lopan: I'd like to know how they plan on explaining Power Girl's sudden increase in size!!!

Male artist, pandering to a predominantly male audience.

/longtime comic reader, but not every heroine needs to be Tits Magee.
//male

Barbigazi: They need to learn to just let characters die off.

And have Warner and Disney lose millions of dollars in potential merchandise sales? They'll make DC and Marvel universes so bloated with Z-grade characters (if they aren't already) that they'll choke on their own canon leaving a rotting corpse for each brand which would then be sold piecemeal if it isn't profitable.

Comics are just taken way too seriously these days.

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: I, for one, LOVE the idea of Parallax being a separate entity. Mainly because it helped lead to the Sinestro Corp Wars, which led to Blackest Night.

And I will openly admit a total man-crush on Geoff Johns for his GL run.

Second. Johns GL is the best long term comic run in years.

I don't know. I stopped reading comics about the same time that most of that crap would have seemed bad to me. I just don't get the soap opera appeal for anyone over the age of 14. To me, criticisms like the ones in the article seem a little pitiful, like complaining how your wiffle-ball bat isn't big enough or that macaroni art confines you as an artist.

For the record, I consider myself one of the most immature people I've ever met.

I don't mind Parallax. It fixed a mistake.

And the Cassandra Cain thing knowing English and being able to write thing was explained away in one sentence... English as a Second Language classes during the 52 year.

FTA "It turns out Wolverine now isn't a mutant, but rather a Lupine, a human looking species that evolved in parallel to humans - but from wolves, not apes." "So pretty much ever feral mutant isn't actually a mutant, but a wolf person."


Okay can someone explain where the hell does the Beast land in all this? He was ape-like, but he had a secondary mutation that made him cat-like. Hell I didn't even know about the lupine thing till the damn article. I thought that they finally had settled the Wolverine origin story.

Sooo glad I stopped reading Spiderman before they did this crap to the character. Yeesh, and I thought Maximum Clonage was bad.

Orgasmatron138: Does this include when dead characters resurface?

Because Jason Todd coming back was retarded.

Although the worst was the whole Scarlet Spider saga. God, what a trainwreck of fail that was.


Bucky coming back was equally retarded. I'm just waiting for someone to resurrect Uncle Ben... unless that's already happened.

lasercannon: FTA "It turns out Wolverine now isn't a mutant, but rather a Lupine, a human looking species that evolved in parallel to humans - but from wolves, not apes." "So pretty much ever feral mutant isn't actually a mutant, but a wolf person."


Okay can someone explain where the hell does the Beast land in all this? He was ape-like, but he had a secondary mutation that made him cat-like. Hell I didn't even know about the lupine thing till the damn article. I thought that they finally had settled the Wolverine origin story.

Beast has always been a human whose look was science based in origin. His mind and agility have always been his primary mutation.

Quesada's idiotic editorial mandates for Brand New Day single-handedly made me stop reading spiderman. JMS is what made me read it again and Quesada shiat on the best run Spidey has had in years because, gasp, spidey got older. Right now, Spidey has been turned back into the trite, oh no I have so many normal problems, not interesting, spidey and the villains are an utter joke.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the Spider God retcon. It wasn't even a retcon. It merely added another layer to the story, it didn't actually re-write anything, but enhanced it and actually made it make more sense.

JMS made Spidey a force, Quesada neutered him into a milquetoast.

Wait... what? Wolverine is a "lupine?" Damn, I've been out of comics for a while.

/Also humans did not evolve from apes. We share a common ancestor.
//Legitimate pet peeve

Superboy PUNCH!

mattharvest: The English Major: sunbird: That is a cavalcade of fail right there. The first Spiderman one stands out unquestionably as the worst. I don't even read Spiderman and I still wince every time I think about it.

I still like how there's a Spider God.

You know what's insane about it?

it's still true.

Even though Spider-Man no longer remembers it, he still is the Spider avatar. Quesada said that all of The Other still happened, so he still has those arm spikes and organic webshooters; he's just forgotten.

But he remembers fighting Morlun (quite possibly the best spidey villain ever)? How does he remember getting his ass handed to him, repeatedly but forgets how he killed Morlun or that he was reborn?

Quesada is a douche nozzle of the highest order.

The pic at the top with no chapter attached to it

What character is that?

Now, to be fair, everything SINCE One More Day has been excellent. The book has made more sense, been more fun, and kept up a difficult-but-fan-pleasing WEEKLY schedule. I still love ASM, even with all the OMD weirdness.

And I should also point out that Mephisto is not "Marvel's version of Satan". That would be SATAN, as in "Samon Hellstrom: Son of Satan". Mephisto is a demon. Just like Satan (who is just another demon in a universe where every ancient god actually existed), Zarathos, Nightmare, S'ym, Belasco, Baphomet, D'Spayre, N'astirh, Pazuzu, Raksasa, Asteroth, and hundreds of others.

So calling Mephisto the "Satan of Marvel" is kind of dumb. He's just one demon among many, there's already a Satan in Marvel, and even the real "Satan of Marvel" isn't like the Satan of our world; He's rather watered-down because the Marvel Universe is a place where gods still walk the Earth.

Of course, this makes Peter's deal with Mephisto even dumber, because Pete personally knows at least four honest-to-goodness gods who probably have more power than Mephisto, not to mention he's on somewhat good terms with The Molecule Man and The Beyonder who are both capable of doing ANYTHING AT ALL.

Mephisto was a bad choice.

HOWEVER... I'm glad MJ is gone. She was a drag. Pete should have ended up with Gwen, and MJ has always been an annoying weight around his neck; A consolation prize in lieu of the love of his life (even he says as much).

Barbigazi: They need to learn to just let characters die off.

This. Let the old characters pass their capes to a new generation and then retire or die and STAY DEAD. That's how you keep a classic archetype around, but still have the ability to tell fresh new stories. That's how a story about a hero's death can actually be poignant, instead of something everyone knows is a sales gimmick. Special bonus - you get rid of continuity issues, because all of the crazy backstory no longer has to happen to the same character.

They aught to retcon the entirety of DC's lineup, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and all, to coincide with this:



The Justice League and Unlimited series was the best that DC has ever been. Superman was by far the strongest, but not an invincible God. Wonder Woman was a badass in her own right. You had a good respect for the Green Lantern Corps while still seeing it's shortcomings. Wally West was a super-fast wise ass with B-Level villains, and he knew it, but was still powerful enough to unravel reality if not careful.

And most importantly, everyone feared Batman. People that would smacktalk the Big Blue Boyscout even ran when Bats showed up on the scene. With the exception of the Joker, which of course leads me to the other reason it's the best; All cartoon version of the Joker would be voiced by Mark Hamill.

I read that article, even though I don't know thing one about comics.

man, I'm confused.

Rev. Skarekroe: RocketRod: Don't you hate the fact that you know what "retcon" means.

Not really, no.
Anyway, my least favorite by far is the Wolverine/Romulus thing. Because the only reason it exists is that Loeb wanted a permanent mark on Wolverine's continuity. Looking forward to someone inevitably retconning the retcon.

Hilariously, it wasn't even an original Loeb idea. Jim Krueger & Alex Ross came up with it a decade ago in Earth X.

unlikely: New characters. They need new characters.

They try to launch new books constantly, unless its another Spidey, Wolvie, Bats, or Supes book the fanbase ain't buying.

Shadowknight: They aught to retcon the entirety of DC's lineup, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and all, to coincide with this:

Agreed. The Diniverse is awesome, and a lot more satisfying than DC has been in a loooong time.

Shadowknight: All cartoon versions of the Joker would be voiced by Mark Hamill.

ftfy

That was a good submission. It outlined perfectly why I've just about quit buying comics.
/the end is in sight...

Best Retcon ever was Ennis' run on Punisher. One panel of punisher looking down from the top of a building or something saying something to the effect of "they made me an angel of vengeance for a while but now that's over." That was it.Back to a guns and a t-shirt.

Alan Moore did some masterful retcons with Swamp Thing. I'm sure the plant elemental bit is where Straczynsky got the idea for the Spider God.

ZeroCorpse: Agreed. The Diniverse is awesome, and a lot more satisfying than DC has been in a loooong time.

Funny, I always thought most people give Bruce Timm the primary credit in terms of that series and multiple attached shows.

Started with "Batman: TAS" of course. Went to Superman, which then tied into each other, and they gradually started bringing in more villains and heroes until finally birthing the first Justice League series and related "movies."

Eh, however you cut it and who was the primary artistic force behind it, it was indeed a lot better than anything in the comics. Superman is far too powerful, and Batman has become a little bit TOO emo for my tastes (he at least mixed up the occasional humor snipe at Flash in the series, and showed a somewhat happy personal life as Wayne while trying to occasionally date). Wonder Woman has to get away from her roots as a bondage fantasy of a very creepy old man and into the realm of magically enhanced Amazonian warrior badass. And the ex-Marine, natural leader but conflicted John Stewart Green Lantern is, to me, far more interesting than the uber-conservative Hal Jordan.

Oh, and they had Green Arrow. He kicks ass as a rich hippy womanizer out for a cause and a good time. His and Black Canary's episodes were fun to watch, especially when they involved this lunatic:



"Don't be rediculous. I go through EVERYONE'S garbage."

ZeroCorpse:

I just realized who I was replying to. Nice to know that while we disagree on Whedon, we agree on something as good fiction.

Barbigazi: They need to learn to just let characters die off.

And again, the fanbase biatches and moans until any dead characters are returned.

Not like Time-Warner and Disney are going to casually approve of casually throwing away intellectual property. What, do you actually think they would ever permanently kill off a cash cow like Spidey or Bats?