Typical large corporation politics bullshiat.

TFA: Apparently he broke his non-disclosure agreement by discussing the design process at AA.

If you signed a non-disclosure agreement with your employer, you should probably refrain from discussing details of your job with some guy on the internet.

ne2d: TFA: Apparently he broke his non-disclosure agreement by discussing the design process at AA.

If you signed a non-disclosure agreement with your employer, you should probably refrain from discussing details of your job with some guy on the internet.

While true, it sounds like what he said was an honest attempt to diffuse the situation and maintain a working relationship with the customer.

I think AA is acting like jackasses here, although they prob have a zero tolerance policy towards this kind of stuff.

I Said: ne2d: TFA: Apparently he broke his non-disclosure agreement by discussing the design process at AA.

If you signed a non-disclosure agreement with your employer, you should probably refrain from discussing details of your job with some guy on the internet.

While true, it sounds like what he said was an honest attempt to diffuse the situation and maintain a working relationship with the customer.

I think AA is acting like jackasses here, although they prob have a zero tolerance policy towards this kind of stuff.

A zero-tolerance policy against creating giant PR nightmares? Yeah, probably.

ThatGuyGreg: A zero-tolerance policy against creating giant PR nightmares? Yeah, probably.

I don't get the PR nightmare the guy created. It's a simple "look, we're working on it and often at large companies implementing complex systems can be difficult".

The horror.

ThatGuyGreg: A zero-tolerance policy against creating giant PR nightmares? Yeah, probably.

So are they going full Python and firing the guy that created an even larger PR nightmare by firing the original guy?

exick: So are they going full Python and firing the guy that created an even larger PR nightmare by firing the original guy?

They've been sacked.

Why is a web designer talking to customers directly anyway? Even in smaller companies, the people behind the scenes stay behind the scenes, and its up to salespeople or customer service-specific people to interface with clients/customers.

The Onanist: They've been sacked.

A moose once bit my sister.

I Said: often at large companies implementing complex systems can be difficult"

Though undoubtedly true, that's what probably got him in trouble. Managers don't want to advertise just how bloated their organization is and how hard it is for it to turn on a dime while a more nimble competitor can make changes more quickly. Just waiting for legal's approval to change one line in a contract can take several lawyers several days in some places.

my god he helped someone

apacheco: my god he helped someone

Seriously, when's the last time an IT or web designer ever helped anyone?

downstairs: Why is a web designer talking to customers directly anyway? Even in smaller companies, the people behind the scenes stay behind the scenes, and its up to salespeople or customer service-specific people to interface with clients/customers.

Good pernt. Most places don't let their html mules see the light of day, let alone answer a customer call. He had to violate a NDA to get fired like that and there's only a bajillion other slaves out there willing to don the yoke for AA and write html for them.

DrZiffle: apacheco: my god he helped someone

Seriously, when's the last time an IT or web designer ever helped anyone?

im in IT and im paid to help people everyday. but no one ever said to kiss their ass. just help

DrZiffle: apacheco: my god he helped someone

Seriously, when's the last time an IT or web designer ever helped anyone?

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

apacheco: I hate you because you know more about computers than I.

A guy using a brilliant white font on an absolute black background is complaining about design?

Weird.

downstairs: Why is a web designer talking to customers directly anyway? Even in smaller companies, the people behind the scenes stay behind the scenes, and its up to salespeople or customer service-specific people to interface with clients/customers.

Bingo. This isn't just true in large organizations... I have precisely four people in my division of my company, but if I hear that one of my developers is throwing the overall organization under the bus to defend their personal work, that's a problem (probably not a "can you immediately" problem, that's not my style, but still).

If my developer sees feedback like this somewhere or is addressed with it, they're not only allowed, but encouraged to give me their feedback on the situation. It's my job to make sure that what goes back to the end users about how/if we plan on remedying the situation is through the proper channels.

This is equivalent to my developer having a problem with me and going over my head to my boss without talking with me about it first. That's not the way it's supposed to be done (unless it's something ridiculously bad, like harassment). You have direct lines of communication put in place. You follow those and it's only permissible to go outside of those under very serious circumstances.

People need to grow up and realize that life would be a lot easier for everyone if everyone would just talk about stuff that pissed them off with their bosses. The ironic thing about this whole situation is that this guy probably feared retribution if he would have gone to his boss with it...

I Said:
While true, it sounds like what he said was an honest attempt to diffuse the situation and maintain a working relationship with the customer.



What I saw was some web monkey trying to get a contract gig with AA, followed by some AA dork making excuses for his shiatty work.
Did I completely miss the point?

make me some tea: Typical large corporation politics bullshiat.

This is why I never do work for a large corporation unless it's on a contract basis and they pay me quadruple the highest paid employee they have.

DrZiffle: apacheco: I hate you because you know more about computers than I.

damn you

Those responsible for the sacking have now been sacked.

a moose bit my sister.

It's in the consumerist, so you know it's true.

did he design the page that won't open too?

This is why unions are so pervasive in the airline business now a days.

No good deed goes unpunished.

dj_swim: Bingo. This isn't just true in large organizations... I have precisely four people in my division of my company, but if I hear that one of my developers is throwing the overall organization under the bus to defend their personal work, that's a problem (probably not a "can you immediately" problem, that's not my style, but still).

If my developer sees feedback like this somewhere or is addressed with it, they're not only allowed, but encouraged to give me their feedback on the situation. It's my job to make sure that what goes back to the end users about how/if we plan on remedying the situation is through the proper channels.

This is equivalent to my developer having a problem with me and going over my head to my boss without talking with me about it first. That's not the way it's supposed to be done (unless it's something ridiculously bad, like harassment). You have direct lines of communication put in place. You follow those and it's only permissible to go outside of those under very serious circumstances.

People need to grow up and realize that life would be a lot easier for everyone if everyone would just talk about stuff that pissed them off with their bosses. The ironic thing about this whole situation is that this guy probably feared retribution if he would have gone to his boss with it...

Exactly. But beyond all of this- why does a developer of any sort, at a Fortune 500 company, have access to the customer in any way?

They should be developing, not providing customer support directly.

I don't even know how that line of communication even happened at an AA. Pretty crazy.

The dude spoke with the "press" in an official capacity. That's a major no-no in Corporate America.

/There's a reason none of you monkeys know what company I work for.

The blogger should be fired from his own design blog for having a crappy design for his design blog. Seriously. Even Fark has a better design, and that's saying something.

downstairs: Exactly. But beyond all of this- why does a developer of any sort, at a Fortune 500 company, have access to the customer in any way?

They should be developing, not providing customer support directly.

I don't even know how that line of communication even happened at an AA. Pretty crazy.

It wasn't a customer call. Guy writes a blog post about how crappy AA.com is. UX designer at AA.com saw the post and responded via email. AA.com folks checked their email servers to see who sent that email and fire the guy.

tillerman35: The blogger should be fired from his own design blog for having a crappy design for his design blog. Seriously. Even Fark has a better design, and that's saying something.

You'll get over it.

RoyBatty: A guy using a brilliant white font on an absolute black background is complaining about design?

Weird.

Screw you, some of us liked DOS.

Mr. X admitted his company wasn't nearly as open or agile as 37signals in the letter, but then neglected to consider that sending the letter might cause problems.

You know what would be a real PR coup? If Southwest or Virgin American offered the guy a job doing UX design for their site. That would get every hipster in the country flying their airlines.

I Said: While true, it sounds like what he said was an honest attempt to diffuse the situation and maintain a working relationship with the customer.


Webdev shouldn't be working directly with the customer. I know someone who would be good though.

The guy whose site is a jet-black background with small white type is complaining about a bad user interface experience ?

Really ?

DrZiffle: apacheco: my god he helped someone

Seriously, when's the last time an IT or web designer ever helped anyone?

As someone who gets paid to do that very thing, I can tell you that customers are frequently their own largest obstacle to problem resolution.

The guy got fired because someone in IT management got their feelings hurt by this. It didn't have anything to do with disclosure... it had everything to do with the fact that he acknowledged that the design was poor. A lot of corporate IT managers have very thin skins, usually because they don't have technical backgrounds and really have no business managing IT professionals. (It happens all the time.)


And then another favorite scenario...

"Wow! I've been looking at this code, and I've got to say... it sucks!"

"Uh... Bob Smith wrote that code..."

"Well, then Bob Smith wrote some sucky code!"

I've worked in programming shops where bad designs and/or code were defended strictly on the basis of who did them, as if that was some kind of excuse or license for the slipshod work. The politics that go on in some of these places is just mind-boggling, and the management that allows it to go on (because a lot of the time they don't know any better) is responsible for so much wasted time, money, and effort. Crap that should be fixed is never fixed because egos won't allow people to acknowledge that something is screwed up. Or you get the wunderkind newbie manager who gets an idea like, "We've got 4,000 recorded bugs in our bug tracking database. Let's put in a couple of mandatory unpaid weekends and bring that number down to 2,000!" The guy has never written a line of code in his life and has never successfully managed a software project. Good stuff!

I always thought the designers were hired to make sites less legible and harder to use and look at.

If AA hadn't fired him, AIGA would have had to whack him.

I am ENRAGED because the Consumerist and its white knight douche readers tell me I should be.

After a decade in airline management I've become pretty efficient at explaining the problem with the airlines: no one is willing to let them fail naturally like any other business.

The author is talking about customer experience, taste, new world open corporate communication all concepts that don't apply to legacy airlines. Does AA know that AA.com is a gaish throwback to the 90's? Of course they do. They're not fixing it because of a taste problem, or even an awareness problem. They aren't fixing it because there's no money.

Remember back when they used to do those in-flight scan-tron customer surveys? They stopped because customers lie about they want. They say they want an improved experience, better meals, facilities, shorter waits, even prioritizing those ahead of cost. But when it comes time to purchase the ticket they show that they only care about one thing- price. They don't care about facilities, number of layovers, aircraft, (safety), or anything else. I've watched UI lab subjects pick the cheapest flight in the list 80% of the time, even if the one right below it is $10 more but is non-stop. Airlines don't invest in the customer experience because although we all biatch about it, that's not how we buy tickets.

Why not then fix it by letting them fail? Because Southwest Airlines doesn't fly overseas. If you let the free market control airlines, they can only get to be a certain size before their costs begin to rise. At that point, more nimble upstarts eat their lunch on specific routes. the last thing Southwest wants to do is increase their costs by buying wide-bodies and dealing with all the fees to fly internationally.

If Southwest and the other "nimble" airlines won't fly internationally, then who will? Pan-Am showed what happens if you let your domestic feed die. Well, foreign airlines will be happy to step in. That's where congress gets worried. If The United States loses its flag carriers, it will loose all the hard to get route approvals. It would be forced to rely on foreign companies and governments to transport its citizens and enable its international trade. Foreign airlines have already begun to get the permission to operate in the US, (Virgin). Their cost structures are often lower than even the most "nimble" us carriers, and in a free market would displace Southwest as well.

For some reason we don't want to fly China Air domestically to visit Grandma in Tulsa.

All of that leads to the same three choices:

1. Consumers agree to pay more to cover the costs of the services they complain about day in and day out

2. Let the free market replace US airlines with the lowest cost global provider

3. Keep bailing them out while travelers whine like a bunch of little girls about the good old days, sitting in a $199 seat that once cost $1000.

/Opinionated much
//Hates the crybabies