Seriously, the maps are comparing apples to apples. 3G coverage to 3G coverage. The ad DIRECTLY, in PLAIN ENGLISH, says they're comparing "3G coverage". The fine print says "3G coverage". The big print says "3G coverage".

AT&T, your 3G coverage sucks. Even your most ardent supporters will grudgingly acknowledge this. Suing your competitors in a vain attempt to keep them from revealing this makes you look, in a word, stupid.

Funny; AT&T's 3G coverage maps happen to match Verizon's depiction of AT&T's 3G coverage maps exactly.

AT&T fanboys arguing "OMG U HAEV TO COMPARE VOICE AND EDGE AGAINST VERIZON 3G" in 5...4...3...

In the final analysis, AT&T seeks emergency relief because Verizon's side-by-side, apples-to-apples comparison of its own 3G coverage with AT&T's confirms what the marketplace has been saying for months: AT&T failed to invest adequately in the necessary infrastructure to expand its 3G coverage to support its growth in smartphone business, and the usefulness of its service to smartphone users has suffered accordingly.

Priceless. I'm no big fan of either company, but AT&T's lawsuit is so terrible that they've actually -- and I never thought I'd say this -- made Verizon look like a champion of ethical advertising.

That's saying something.

floor9: Funny; AT&T's 3G coverage maps happen to match Verizon's depiction of AT&T's 3G coverage maps exactly.

AT&T fanboys arguing "OMG U HAEV TO COMPARE VOICE AND EDGE AGAINST VERIZON 3G" in 5...4...3...

There are no AT&T fanboys. Even the most uncritical-minded iDrone hates
the garnish on their wages that AT&T gets for their crappy data coverage.

DjangoStonereaver: There are no AT&T fanboys. Even the most uncritical-minded iDrone hates
the garnish on their wages that AT&T gets for their crappy data coverage.

I was wondering if there really were AT&T fanboys. I'm not one, certainly, I am Droid-curious.

floor9: AT&T fanboys arguing "OMG U HAEV TO COMPARE VOICE AND EDGE AGAINST VERIZON 3G" in 5...4...3...

Yeah... I don't know one person who I could describe as an AT&T fanboy. Their 3g coverage sucks. EDGE was OK 5 years ago, but it is painfully slow for todays devices. Not only that, but it is ridiculously overcrowded because so many people have switched to smartphones. I live in the sticks, and really resent having to pay for 3G coverage that we don't get. Thankfully I have Wifi basically everywhere I spend time, but being on the road and having to look things up over EDGE sucks.

If Verizon ever gets the iPhone, I'll switch in a heartbeat. And before everyone flames me, or says "get a Droid"... I already have chargers, apps, etc for my iPhone. Love the phone, absolutely despise the carrier.

DjangoStonereaver: There are no AT&T fanboys.

If this thread goes green, you will see how wrong you are. You will see at least a dozen posts defending AT&T as having the only "real" 3G service, accusing Verizon of comparing voice + 1x + EVDO against AT&T's 3G, demanding Verizon include AT&T's voice + EDGE on the map, and so on.

Unless they've embarrassed themselves enough already.

EvilEgg: I am Droid-curious

start with a realdoll and work your way up

floor9: AT&T fanboys arguing "OMG U HAEV TO COMPARE VOICE AND EDGE AGAINST VERIZON 3G" in 5...4...3...

Are there AT&T fanboys? Do people really defend them?

DjangoStonereaver: garnish on their wages that AT&T gets for their crappy data coverage.

"Garnish on their wages"? And what's your cell phone bill, a worthy gift to the beloved carrier?

Hender: Are there AT&T fanboys? Do people really defend them?

Oh god yes. The same people who get into arguments about GSM vs CDMA -- not technical debates, mind you, but actual arguments. Spittle and all.

I don't care about any of this, I just want Verizon to get the iPhone. The moment this happens I'll be breaking my AT&T contract. I'll send the disconnect fee along with a picture of my balls.

/I can't wait

In fact, in the last thread, people were accusing Verizon of showing their "voice + 1x + EVDO" against AT&T's 3G. To preemptively deal with that, here's Verizon's 3G-only coverage map:

http://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotcom/coveragelocator/images/maps/3Gcompari so n.pdf

floor9: In fact, in the last thread, people were accusing Verizon of showing their "voice + 1x + EVDO" against AT&T's 3G. To preemptively deal with that, here's Verizon's 3G-only coverage map:

I'm starting to suspect you are a Verizon Fanboy.

/All carriers suck
//Your region may vary

blackminded: I don't care about any of this, I just want Verizon to get the iPhone. The moment this happens I'll be breaking my AT&T contract. I'll send the disconnect fee along with a picture of my balls.

/I can't wait

Don't count on it. Steve Jobs is petty and has a remarkably long memory about slights to Apple, and Verizon's "iDon't" ads probably lessened the chances an iPhone would eventually land on Verizon. Plus, having to manufacture a separate device for Verizon isn't cost effective for Apple.

On the other hand, Qualcomm just came out with a GSM/CDMA dual radio chip, so if Apple adopted that in the next-gen iPhone, the same device could work on different networks.

...well, except Verizon because f*ck them, as far as Jobs is concerned. :)

One of the best ad taglines of the decade, also... there's a map for that.. BRAVO!

alywa: I'm starting to suspect you are a Verizon Fanboy.

Nah. I'm uneasily supporting them here because AT&T's lawsuit is not only ridiculous and without merit, but would set a devastating precedent in the already anti-consumer world of advertising. Imagine the day when companies can not compare themselves to each other.

Hender: On the other hand, Qualcomm just came out with a GSM/CDMA dual radio chip, so if Apple adopted that in the next-gen iPhone, the same device could work on different networks.

IIRC, Texas Instruments has had a dual-mode chip for several years now. The politics of cell phone distribution generally keep it out of play.

floor9: http://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotcom/coveragelocator/images/maps/3Gcompari so n.pdf

Wow....is T-Mobile really that bad? If so, it's a good thing that Verizon's not going after them in these ads.

Cndn Bacon: Wow....is T-Mobile really that bad? If so, it's a good thing that Verizon's not going after them in these ads.

T-Mobile is in a bad place for 3G. Problem is, if they don't get in gear and fix it and/or merge with someone else, we'll be left with Sprint, AT&T, and Verizon. I'd rather see AT&T / Verizon / (Sprint + T-Mobile), because although their coverage is pretty weak, T-Mobile does at least know how to take care of their customers.

Here's the full response:

http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/VerizonTROOpp.pdf

floor9: Imagine the day when companies can not compare themselves to each other.

I vaguely remember a time when you couldn't use a direct competitor's trademarks in your advertising. Then came the Coke/Pepsi thing in the 80s.

Hey, AT&T, I know this sounds crazy, but instead of handing out bonuses to your executive staff this year, use a few millions bucks to tighten up your 3G service. I know that US corps love to snuggle with their "C" level executives rather than put money into things like infrastructure and R&D, but if the Droid takes off on the Verizon network, you'll have a lot more to worry about than executives complaining they can't afford a new yacht this year.

GurneyHalleck: Hey, AT&T, I know this sounds crazy, but instead of handing out bonuses to your executive staff this year, use a few millions bucks to tighten up your 3G service. I know that US corps love to snuggle with their "C" level executives rather than put money into things like infrastructure and R&D, but if the Droid takes off on the Verizon network, you'll have a lot more to worry about than executives complaining they can't afford a new yacht this year.

Bingo. AT&T 3G coverage is good in major metro areas, and in heavily populated corridors between those metro areas. I live 45 miles outside of a reasonable metro ares (1 million people), and our coverage for AT&T here is abysmal. Verizon, while new to our market (in the last 3 years) is excellent. AT&T has no response when I call to complain... only "we are working on expanding our 3G coverage"... you guys have made billions extra from having the iPhone exclusively... you need to invest in your infrastructure.

floor9: Cndn Bacon: Wow....is T-Mobile really that bad? If so, it's a good thing that Verizon's not going after them in these ads.

T-Mobile is in a bad place for 3G. Problem is, if they don't get in gear and fix it and/or merge with someone else, we'll be left with Sprint, AT&T, and Verizon. I'd rather see AT&T / Verizon / (Sprint + T-Mobile), because although their coverage is pretty weak, T-Mobile does at least know how to take care of their customers.

Sprint just finished swallowing a legacy network based on a different technology (Nextel), I'm not sure they'd be willing to do it again with T-Mobile...

KyngNothing: Sprint just finished swallowing a legacy network based on a different technology (Nextel), I'm not sure they'd be willing to do it again with T-Mobile...

Sprint has an abundance of bandwidth and money, but has shown over the past ten years (!) that they can not keep customers. T-Mobile desperately needs bandwidth, has done a good job of hanging onto customers, and runs solid ad campaigns. Put T-Mobile in charge of Sprint, migrate everyone to CDMA, and both Sprint and T-Mo customers would largely happy.

Integrating multiple platforms can be done. Remember about ten years ago when AT&T / Cellular One / etc were juggling AMPS and IS-136 (commonly referred to as "TDMA", which is somewhat incorrect) at the same time? Then remember how they juggled IS-136 and GSM at the same time? Far less painless than Sprint's CDMA vs iDen.

It can be done, just not by Sprint. Sprint should never be in charge of anything, ever.

Meh. Here is my current 20 Meter coverage map:



For stuff closer in, I can use 40 Meters.

I can't believe there are people out there willing to go out of their way to defend Verizon. It's like people don't remember when Verizon started messing with their phones' firmware and hardware to screw them out of otherwise free features.

/Make no mistake: AT&T Sucks.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: It's like people don't remember when Verizon started messing with their phones' firmware and hardware to screw them out of otherwise free features.

In all honesty, though, my LG eNV Touch doesn't have this problem. If I want to get pictures off or sounds on, I just hook up the USB cable and go. Never tried Bluetooth, largely because my laptop is Bluetooth-free.

floor9: AT&T fanboys

WTF is an AT&T fanboy?

U.S Cellular in the house!!

/sorry wrong thread!

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: I can't believe there are people out there willing to go out of their way to defend Verizon. It's like people don't remember when Verizon started messing with their phones' firmware and hardware to screw them out of otherwise free features.

And, if rumors are to be believed, that is how AT&T ended up getting the iPhone. Verizon probably learned its lesson... the Droid doesn't seem to be crippled at all.

floor9: Seriously, the maps are comparing apples to apples. 3G coverage to 3G coverage. The ad DIRECTLY, in PLAIN ENGLISH, says they're comparing "3G coverage". The fine print says "3G coverage". The big print says "3G coverage".

... except that Verizon's "3G coverage" may be voice and SMS only, rather than broadband. So, when they say 3G coverage, they really just mean 'digital coverage'.

*sigh* Comparing Verizon's rural EV-D'oh to ATT's UMTS 3g, is like ISDN to DSL. I wish Verizon hadn't been able to coin their crummy out-of-city service "3G". That fact is more misleading to customers than -any- map.

/att
//not an ifone

People are far more offended by the truth than lies. Start accusing someone of random things: being Martian, stupid, gay, libertarian, orange.... They'll laugh at you until you say something true.

floor9: In fact, in the last thread, people were accusing Verizon of showing their "voice + 1x + EVDO" against AT&T's 3G. To preemptively deal with that, here's Verizon's 3G-only coverage map:

http://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotcom/coveragelocator/images/maps/3Gcompari so n.pdf

... and yet, if you go here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController, you see that that red area includes the "voice and text messaging only" coverage areas.

I'm no AT&T fan boy, by any means. Verizon has much better coverage in my area. But they aren't being honest in this comparison.

I have had AT&T & Cingular both before and after the merger. Same for Sprint and Nextel.

I now have Verizon. It just works.

srsly.

alywa: GurneyHalleck: Hey, AT&T, I know this sounds crazy, but instead of handing out bonuses to your executive staff this year, use a few millions bucks to tighten up your 3G service. I know that US corps love to snuggle with their "C" level executives rather than put money into things like infrastructure and R&D, but if the Droid takes off on the Verizon network, you'll have a lot more to worry about than executives complaining they can't afford a new yacht this year.

Bingo. AT&T 3G coverage is good in major metro areas, and in heavily populated corridors between those metro areas. I live 45 miles outside of a reasonable metro ares (1 million people), and our coverage for AT&T here is abysmal. Verizon, while new to our market (in the last 3 years) is excellent. AT&T has no response when I call to complain... only "we are working on expanding our 3G coverage"... you guys have made billions extra from having the iPhone exclusively... you need to invest in your infrastructure.

Have you MET Apple/AT&T people? They epitomize the "Flyover" mentality. Why would they put 3G coverage in the flyover areas? Sure put it in the Oasis known as the Texas Metroplex, but anywhere else the people are just too stupid to know how to use 3G phones, and even if they did know how to use them, they don't deserve them.

As long as they have NYC, Chicago, and LA-SF covered that's the whole country.

As a grandfathered Alltel customer, I'm in an oddly comfortable place with the Droid. I've a phone free of Verizon's pay for everything meddling, a voice plan that only T-mobile can come close to match on price and finally good voice and data coverage.

Couldn't have planned it better if I tried.

/smug
//checks home value. *sob*

From Verizon's response:
"AT&T has aggressively promoted its 3G coverage separately and distinctly from its other voice/data coverage, such as its older 2.5G and 2G networks."

But, going by the red coverage map on Verizon's site, their map includes their voice/sms-only coverage areas.

Theaetetus: ... and yet, if you go here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController, you see that that red area includes the "voice and text messaging only" coverage areas.

Have you actually compared that to the 3G map? That is NOT the same map. The map you're linking to has far more coverage than the 3G map... which indicates that both maps are accurate.

as a guy who recently sold his iPhone and switched to the droid precisely because of AT&T's lack of coverage, a kick has been had by me out of these responses.

8 dropped calls in 30 minutes
Bowery and Houston.


I'll repeat my story.

"I'm getting horrible service on my phone"
"do this... do that.."
"still horrible service. if I can't use this in my apartment why do I own it?"
"ooooh your using it indoors!! we don't support that"

nesler: Theaetetus: ... and yet, if you go here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController, you see that that red area includes the "voice and text messaging only" coverage areas.

Have you actually compared that to the 3G map? That is NOT the same map. The map you're linking to has far more coverage than the 3G map... which indicates that both maps are accurate.

Yeah, I'm looking at them side by side... Where are you referring to specifically?

The only reason I'm at AT&T is because I don't pay for it.

It sucks.

AC21365: *sigh* Comparing Verizon's rural EV-D'oh to ATT's UMTS 3g, is like ISDN to DSL. I wish Verizon hadn't been able to coin their crummy out-of-city service "3G". That fact is more misleading to customers than -any- map.

/att
//not an ifone

This looks like English....

AT&T's EDGE is 3G.

Verizon's CDMA2000 is also 3G.

AT&T's UMTS is also 3G.

Verizon is comparing their CDMA2000 network to AT&T's UMTS network, but leaving out their EDGE network -- which is technically 3G.

So, Verizon's claim is literally false.

However, since AT&T markets their UMTS as "3G" and doesn't market their EDGE as such, Verizon's claim is somewhat true.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: I can't believe there are people out there willing to go out of their way to defend Verizon. It's like people don't remember when Verizon started messing with their phones' firmware and hardware to screw them out of otherwise free features.

/Make no mistake: AT&T Sucks.

AT&T still does this as well (at least they did a year ago). My HTC Fuze came crippled. AT&T had removed a number of the features which are standard on the base phone (HTC Diamond). Fortunately, all they did was remove them and the helpful folks over at xda were kind enough to provide the files and instructions to fix my phone, but it still pissed me off that the AT&T felt it necessary to remove my FM Tuner to try and sell me their digital music crap.

As for the 3G coverage, I'm luck in that I am in that blob in Southern California, so most of the time I am OK. Of course, the phone is useless when I am out camping, but that's not really a problem unless I am trying to use Google Maps. Now, if Google would just add the Topo maps to Google Mobile, I'd really want 3G out in the middle of nowhere. But there is always ArcPad for that.

Theaetetus: nesler: Theaetetus: ... and yet, if you go here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController, you see that that red area includes the "voice and text messaging only" coverage areas.

Have you actually compared that to the 3G map? That is NOT the same map. The map you're linking to has far more coverage than the 3G map... which indicates that both maps are accurate.

Yeah, I'm looking at them side by side... Where are you referring to specifically?

You seem to be indicating that they're the same map, and that it really only shows "voice and text" coverage, and that they're then taking that same map and fraudulently claiming that it depicts 3G coverage.

Here are the two maps:


They're different maps. The 3G coverage is far more patchy than the text and voice coverage. Looking at the two maps, there is no evidence within the two maps that would provide support for your hypothesis that the maps make false claims about Verizon's coverage.

elchip: AT&T's EDGE is 3G.

Verizon's CDMA2000 is also 3G.

AT&T's UMTS is also 3G.

Verizon is comparing their CDMA2000 network to AT&T's UMTS network, but leaving out their EDGE network -- which is technically 3G.

So, Verizon's claim is literally false.

However, since AT&T markets their UMTS as "3G" and doesn't market their EDGE as such, Verizon's claim is somewhat true.

As an addendum,

EDGE despite technically being 3G, is also significantly slower than UMTS.

Now, I'm a little bit confused about Verizon. They use CDMA2000 1xRTT and CDMA2000 1xEV-DO; I think the former is more equivalent to EDGE and the latter is more equivalent to UMTS.

Is Verizon comparing CMDA2000 1xRTT to EDGE? Or CDMA2000 1xRTT to UMTS? Or CDMA2000 1xEV-DO to EDGE? Or CDMA2000 1xEV-DO to UMTS?

Theaetetus: nesler: Theaetetus: ... and yet, if you go here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController, you see that that red area includes the "voice and text messaging only" coverage areas.

Have you actually compared that to the 3G map? That is NOT the same map. The map you're linking to has far more coverage than the 3G map... which indicates that both maps are accurate.

Yeah, I'm looking at them side by side... Where are you referring to specifically?

Incidentally, AT&T's coverage locator does suck balls, with their "voice", "data", "GoPhone" (wtf?), "Smart Limits" and "Mobile TV" categories...
But the only one of those that matches what Verizon is claiming is their coverage is the Mobile TV map. And Verizon's map definitely doesn't match their Mobile TV coverage.