One of the best Black Flag albums.

/Gnaibunn is a douchebag.

The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.

You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.


Bobby Abreau and Derek Jeter slink away quietly

You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.

Troy Tulowitzki approves of this sentiment.

Leads in what sense? The Gold Glove Team wouldn't have gotten as far without him?

Hudson has more, and I'd take Gonzalez, Kemp or Zimmerman before Rollins if I was putting together a team.

wpmulligan: Leads in what sense? The Gold Glove Team wouldn't have gotten as far without him?

Gold Glovers in five. Six if they're nice.

Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

skammie: One of the best Black Flag albums.

/Gnaibunn is a douchebag.

Who is Gnaibunn?

The way some guys in the media describe the Gold Glove now, it sounds like they give the award to the player with the best offensive stats at a given position. And Yadier Molina is kind of proof of that: his worst season behind the plate in terms of fielding percentage (2008) also happened to be the best season at the plate, and he won his first Gold Glove that year. But, then again, Gonzalez had slightly better defensive numbers than Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Ryan Howard, all of whom were undeniably better at the plate, and he managed to win the award anyway. So I don't know what to believe anymore.

Meh, He's a liar.

MugzyBrown: You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.


Bobby Abreau and Derek Jeter slink away quietly

While I'll give you the past three years. Jeter actually earned it his year. 8 errors this season with a .986 fielding percentage.

/Still no excuse for Abreu though.

spacechicken170am: Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

I call shenanigans! The Nats don't have fans.

WTF Indeed: While I'll give you the past three years. Jeter actually earned it his year. 8 errors this season with a .986 fielding percentage.

Oh, no! You just used fielding percentage in a baseball discussion. Prepare to be attacked by all the sabre-geeks...

\God help you.
\\God help us all.

madden101: The way some guys in the media describe the Gold Glove now, it sounds like they give the award to the player with the best offensive stats at a given position. And Yadier Molina is kind of proof of that: his worst season behind the plate in terms of fielding percentage (2008) also happened to be the best season at the plate, and he won his first Gold Glove that year. But, then again, Gonzalez had slightly better defensive numbers than Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Ryan Howard, all of whom were undeniably better at the plate, and he managed to win the award anyway. So I don't know what to believe anymore.

Rollins sure as hell isn't the best offensive shortstop in the NL, but even these jokers couldn't give the gold glove to Hanley.

Rollins might have had an off year at the plate but he deserved the Gold Glove.

Hey, why not, he's got nothing better to do than watch TV and have a couple of brews.

I had to check to make sure they gave Mark Teixeira his award... yup, right there.

Adrian Gonzales winning the gold glove at 1B is like USC passing Oregon in the BCS last week, even though Oregon Beat USC two weeks ago and has a better Pac-10 record.......or something.

GQueue: Hey, why not, he's got nothing better to do than watch TV and have a couple of brews.

::applause::

madden101: The way some guys in the media describe the Gold Glove now, it sounds like they give the award to the player with the best offensive stats at a given position. And Yadier Molina is kind of proof of that: his worst season behind the plate in terms of fielding percentage (2008) also happened to be the best season at the plate, and he won his first Gold Glove that year. But, then again, Gonzalez had slightly better defensive numbers than Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, and Ryan Howard, all of whom were undeniably better at the plate, and he managed to win the award anyway. So I don't know what to believe anymore.

Yadier won it last year and this year because he is the best defensive catcher in the league by far. Barring any injuries, he has that award locked down for the next 5 years running.

downstairs: skammie: One of the best Black Flag albums.

/Gnaibunn is a douchebag.

Who is Gnaibunn?

LOL filterpwned, you backwards racist!

WTF Indeed: MugzyBrown: You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.


Bobby Abreau and Derek Jeter slink away quietly

While I'll give you the past three years. Jeter actually earned it his year. 8 errors this season with a .986 fielding percentage.

/Still no excuse for Abreu though.

I could be wrong on this.. but someone always posts a chart/link to why Jeter sucks at fielding. I believe it has something to do with not even getting to the ball in the first place.
Like:
SS "X" gets to the ball, but it's deep in the hole, dives, gets the ball, makes a throw, the runner is safe. He gets docked for not getting the out despite fielding the ball.
Jeter sees the ball, makes a run, doesnt dive, doesn't get it.. it's considered a hit, Jeter doesn't get docked.

I think.. I might be way off though. Someone will likely show up with that link and clear this up though.

wpmulligan: Leads in what sense? The Gold Glove Team wouldn't have gotten as far without him?

Hudson has more, and I'd take Gonzalez, Kemp or Zimmerman before Rollins if I was putting together a team.

Any of those idiots ever won MVP? You don't know shiat about baseball.

I don't know what's more mind-blowing: that Derek Jeter won his fourth Gold Glove... or that he actually wasn't a terrible choice this year.

spacechicken170am: Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

Best reflexes I've seen since Brooks; and NOBODY touches Brooks. He's a better hitter than Brooks.

Dr.Knockboots:
I could be wrong on this.. but someone always posts a chart/link to why Jeter sucks at fielding. I believe it has something to do with not even getting to the ball in the first place.
Like:
SS "X" gets to the ball, but it's deep in the hole, dives, gets the ball, makes a throw, the runner is safe. He gets docked for not getting the out despite fielding the ball.
Jeter sees the ball, makes a run, doesnt dive, doesn't get it.. it's considered a hit, Jeter doesn't get docked.

I think.. I might be way off though. Someone will likely show up with that link and clear this up though.

That's the same reasons people give to say that Cal was a terrible fielder.

kidddynamite: wpmulligan: Leads in what sense? The Gold Glove Team wouldn't have gotten as far without him?

Hudson has more, and I'd take Gonzalez, Kemp or Zimmerman before Rollins if I was putting together a team.

Any of those idiots ever won MVP? You don't know shiat about baseball.

No, because they don't run their mouth.

Jimmy Rollins won an MVP by talking trash. I'm not sure that's ever happened before.

/I mean, he had a good year, and I'm a little impressed that he won an MVP solely for running his mouth.

//Matt Holliday led the league in 2 out of 3 triple crown categories, led Rollins in every conceivable stat except runs and steals.

///Holliday, on a team that made the playoffs, led the league in hits, doubles, rbi, batting average, and total bases. Worst award since Palmeiro won a gold glove DHing.

////Or maybe Rollins winning that gold glove over Tulo that year, when Tulo led baseball in fielding percentage for an SS, and led all of baseball in chances by over 100.

//Not even a Rockies fan. Really.

Sin_City_Superhero: spacechicken170am: Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

I call shenanigans! The Nats don't have fans.

Nope, there are at least two of us; sometimes loyalty is a virtue. Sometimes it's watching bad baseball.

Dr.Knockboots: WTF Indeed: MugzyBrown: You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.


Bobby Abreau and Derek Jeter slink away quietly

While I'll give you the past three years. Jeter actually earned it his year. 8 errors this season with a .986 fielding percentage.

/Still no excuse for Abreu though.

I could be wrong on this.. but someone always posts a chart/link to why Jeter sucks at fielding. I believe it has something to do with not even getting to the ball in the first place.
Like:
SS "X" gets to the ball, but it's deep in the hole, dives, gets the ball, makes a throw, the runner is safe. He gets docked for not getting the out despite fielding the ball.
Jeter sees the ball, makes a run, doesnt dive, doesn't get it.. it's considered a hit, Jeter doesn't get docked.

I think.. I might be way off though. Someone will likely show up with that link and clear this up though.

That is exactly what happens, unfortunately I don't have the chart you are referring to. But being in NY I see a bunch of Yankee games every year, and this year Jeter's lack of range was pretty glaring.

The only way he could make a play on a ball hit up the middle is if he was positioned just a couple feet from 2nd base before the pitch. And his little jump throw that Michael Kay masturbates too, is unnecessary for almost every other shortstop because they get to the ball in enough time to plant and throw.

And this isn't to bash him, Jeter is obviously a great player he just has a lack of range that doesn't show up in the fielding percentage.

kidddynamite:

Any of those idiots ever won MVP? You don't know shiat about baseball.

Rollins didn't even deserve that award. Matt Holliday, on a team that also made the playoffs, was significantly more valuable. Albert Pujols, in his "worst" year since coming to the majors, was even more valuable than Holliday.

Rollins got the award because of the stupid 20-20-20 thing in XBH's, and baseball writers have an infantile fascination with "cool" or "quirky" things like that, even if they are merely that: quirky things that don't really mean a whole lot.

MugzyBrown: You're the jerk... jerk: The gold glove award is proof that coaches know nothing about the sport.


Bobby Abreau and Derek Jeter slink away quietly

What about Shane Victorino? Or is he too busy positioning himself on the warning track with Andy Pettitte batting?

Quel: Yadier won it last year and this year because he is the best defensive catcher in the league by far. Barring any injuries, he has that award locked down for the next 5 years running.

Perhaps I'm just biased, but I think he's been the best defensive catcher in the NL for several years now. Definitely more than just '08 & '09. The reason he wouldn't throw out a lot of guys is because not as many teams try to run on him, and he still manages to get around 50%. I'm just pointing out that the first very good offensive season he had coincided with his worst defensive season (when Soto & Martin had better defensive seasons, but weren't as good in terms of batting average, etc.), and he just so happened to win the Gold Glove.

Sandor at the Zoo: kidddynamite:

Any of those idiots ever won MVP? You don't know shiat about baseball.

Rollins didn't even deserve that award. Matt Holliday, on a team that also made the playoffs, was significantly more valuable. Albert Pujols, in his "worst" year since coming to the majors, was even more valuable than Holliday.

Rollins got the award because of the stupid 20-20-20 thing in XBH's, and baseball writers have an infantile fascination with "cool" or "quirky" things like that, even if they are merely that: quirky things that don't really mean a whole lot.

Rollins had a pretty good year in '07. Holliday was better, but the gap isn't huge. Coors is a better hitters park than Citizen's Bank, and being a good defensive shortstop is more valuable than being a good defensive left fielder. Of course, Rollins isn't the best middle infielder on his own team, so that makes an MVP seem a little silly.

you have pee hands: Sandor at the Zoo: kidddynamite:

Any of those idiots ever won MVP? You don't know shiat about baseball.

Rollins didn't even deserve that award. Matt Holliday, on a team that also made the playoffs, was significantly more valuable. Albert Pujols, in his "worst" year since coming to the majors, was even more valuable than Holliday.

Rollins got the award because of the stupid 20-20-20 thing in XBH's, and baseball writers have an infantile fascination with "cool" or "quirky" things like that, even if they are merely that: quirky things that don't really mean a whole lot.

Rollins had a pretty good year in '07. Holliday was better, but the gap isn't huge. Coors is a better hitters park than Citizen's Bank, and being a good defensive shortstop is more valuable than being a good defensive left fielder. Of course, Rollins isn't the best middle infielder on his own team, so that makes an MVP seem a little silly.

Citizen's Bank is one of the best hitter's parks in the game. Coors does beat it, though not by as much anymore.

The gap between them WAS huge:

Holliday: +12 doubles, +6 HR, +43 rbi, +.044 BA, +.061 OBP, +.076 SLG.

Rollins: +19 runs, +14 triples, +30 steals.

14 triples and 30 steals is a lot, but not as much as .137 ops. How do you win 2 out of 3 triple crown categories on a playoff team and not win the MVP?

/because he didn't talk shiat at the beginning of the year.

you have pee hands:

Rollins had a pretty good year in '07. Holliday was better, but the gap isn't huge. Coors is a better hitters park than Citizen's Bank, and being a good defensive shortstop is more valuable than being a good defensive left fielder. Of course, Rollins isn't the best middle infielder on his own team, so that makes an MVP seem a little silly.

Yeah, the gap isn't totally massive (mostly due to the fact that, as you say, a decent shortstop is worth more on defense than a decent-to-good left fielder) but even given the Coors effect, Holliday was a far better hitter that year, and has been better than Rollins throughout their respective careers.

But yeah, it really was a pretty awful selection. In fact, I don't think the Phillies deserved either of the MVP awards they got in '06 and '07. Pujols has been the league's most valuable player every year since 2004 (Bonds' last big year) with '07 being the most wide-open year in which several players had a legitimate argument (Rollins, of course, not being one of them).

Mr. Slippyfist: he just has a lack of range that doesn't show up in the fielding percentage.

that's the phrase i was really looking for. Thanks.
and hey, even though I'm a Sox fan, if I get to see Jeter play in his final year, I'll be there to cheer for him. He greatly contributed to a good rivalry (probably the most known in sports).. and always seemed to be a damn good guy.

Having said that, I don't think he has the range to not make the plays other players are getting docked for almost making, but failing- at no fault of their own.

Sandor at the Zoo: you have pee hands:

Rollins had a pretty good year in '07. Holliday was better, but the gap isn't huge. Coors is a better hitters park than Citizen's Bank, and being a good defensive shortstop is more valuable than being a good defensive left fielder. Of course, Rollins isn't the best middle infielder on his own team, so that makes an MVP seem a little silly.

Yeah, the gap isn't totally massive (mostly due to the fact that, as you say, a decent shortstop is worth more on defense than a decent-to-good left fielder) but even given the Coors effect, Holliday was a far better hitter that year, and has been better than Rollins throughout their respective careers.

But yeah, it really was a pretty awful selection. In fact, I don't think the Phillies deserved either of the MVP awards they got in '06 and '07. Pujols has been the league's most valuable player every year since 2004 (Bonds' last big year) with '07 being the most wide-open year in which several players had a legitimate argument (Rollins, of course, not being one of them).

If we're opening things up to teams that didn't make the playoffs, Wright deserved a better look. Good combination of speed, offensive prowess, and playing a position that's tough to get offense from.

Of course, given how the Mets' September went, he wasn't gonna win. But his best months that year were August and September. Don't blame him.

Sin_City_Superhero: spacechicken170am: Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

I call shenanigans! The Nats don't have fans.



As a season ticket holder, I would like debunk your "No Fans" theory. Also, my girlfriend sits in the seat next to me, as she was the one who had them first. DIAF. The last picture is the location of our seats too. Unfortunatly we have to sit with the visiting fans more often than not.

Dafatone:

If we're opening things up to teams that didn't make the playoffs, Wright deserved a better look. Good combination of speed, offensive prowess, and playing a position that's tough to get offense from.

Of course, given how the Mets' September went, he wasn't gonna win. But his best months that year were August and September. Don't blame him.

Personally, I think the MVP vote should always be kept open to players who didn't make the playoffs, but that's more of a personal thing because I hate it when guys who have pretty ordinary numbers are touted as potential winners just because they had a strong second half (Carlos Delgado from a couple years ago, I'm looking at you). Also, I'd much prefer the "MVP" award was treated like the Cy Young in that it was awarded to the best player. Then we'd never have to hear about how some ineffable quality like "leadership" is equivalent to 100 points of OBP, or something equally retarded.

To your point... Wright is definitely one of the guys from that year who deserved serious consideration. Hell, looking at his numbers, he was virtually indistinguishable from Holliday and Pujols. Miguel Cabrera was also in the top tier of the league that year. Jimmy Rollins had a good year, too, but nowhere near the level of those guys.

Dafatone: Citizen's Bank is one of the best hitter's parks in the game. Coors does beat it, though not by as much anymore.

The gap between them WAS huge:

Holliday: +12 doubles, +6 HR, +43 rbi, +.044 BA, +.061 OBP, +.076 SLG.

Rollins: +19 runs, +14 triples, +30 steals.

14 triples and 30 steals is a lot, but not as much as .137 ops. How do you win 2 out of 3 triple crown categories on a playoff team and not win the MVP?

/because he didn't talk shiat at the beginning of the year.

The difference between a shortstop and a left fielder cuts into that gap a lot. In 2007 the average MLB shortstop had a .738 OPS and the average left fielder was at .800 - it's harder to be a good shortstop than a good left fielder.

And Citizen's Bank Park is overstated as a hitter's park. The park factors over the last several years for CBP are mostly in the 102-104 range. Coors factors are in the 107-109 range. It's not what it used to be, but it's still one of the best hitters parks in the game.

Holliday was better, but the gap wasn't huge.

Sandor at the Zoo: But yeah, it really was a pretty awful selection. In fact, I don't think the Phillies deserved either of the MVP awards they got in '06 and '07. Pujols has been the league's most valuable player every year since 2004 (Bonds' last big year) with '07 being the most wide-open year in which several players had a legitimate argument (Rollins, of course, not being one of them).

Howard's 2006 was better than Rollins 2007. .313/.425/.659 with 58 home runs is a heck of a line, even if it was a result of the fact teams hadn't yet figured out to play the shortstop in shallow right field against Howard and never throw him a 4 seam fastball.

But yeah, Pujols could certainly have won every year since the decline of the great Barroid.

you have pee hands:

Howard's 2006 was better than Rollins 2007. .313/.425/.659 with 58 home runs is a heck of a line

On this we are in complete agreement.

Just to be perfectly understood, I like both Howard and Rollins (even though I am FAR from a Phillies fan) and think they've both had damn fine careers up to this point. It's just the MVP awards I question, and that really has more to do with the voters than anything.

Sandor at the Zoo:
Just to be perfectly understood, I like both Howard and Rollins (even though I am FAR from a Phillies fan) and think they've both had damn fine careers up to this point. It's just the MVP awards I question, and that really has more to do with the voters than anything.

I am a Phillies fan, and I agree that the voters are retarded. Last year, Howard finished 2nd and Utley was 14th. Not that people care who finishes anywhere but 1st...

Dr.Knockboots: SS "X" gets to the ball, but it's deep in the hole, dives, gets the ball, makes a throw, the runner is safe. He gets docked for not getting the out despite fielding the ball.

A closer description would be X gets to the ball, dives, but it bounces off his glove. He is given an error. On the same hit, Jeter, with his limited range, doesn't even touch the ball. He is not given an error because he wasn't even close. By definition, an error isn't given for lack of speed throwing to first so, in your description, the runner would be awarded a hit, not an error.

you have pee hands: Sandor at the Zoo:
Just to be perfectly understood, I like both Howard and Rollins (even though I am FAR from a Phillies fan) and think they've both had damn fine careers up to this point. It's just the MVP awards I question, and that really has more to do with the voters than anything.

I am a Phillies fan, and I agree that the voters are retarded. Last year, Howard finished 2nd and Utley was 14th. Not that people care who finishes anywhere but 1st...

T... still.

dhudd: spacechicken170am: Zimmerman started off a little rough but he really came on in the middle to late part of the season. As a Nats fan seeing Zimmerman charge at a grounder and throw a guy out with a barehanded grab is one of the few joys we get. He really attacks the ball.

Best reflexes I've seen since Brooks; and NOBODY touches Brooks.

I guess you, like everyone else, did not watch many Phillies games between 1996 and 2002.

Daniels: A closer description would be X gets to the ball, dives, but it bounces off his glove. He is given an error. On the same hit, Jeter, with his limited range, doesn't even touch the ball. He is not given an error because he wasn't even close. By definition, an error isn't given for lack of speed throwing to first so, in your description, the runner would be awarded a hit, not an error.

You'll never see a guy charged with an error for diving and having the ball kick off his glove. Most official scorers are overly generous with hits.

All that aside, if you believe in UZR, giving Derek Jeter the Gold Glove wasn't nearly the travesty his previous GG awards were.

Yanks_RSJ: You'll never see a guy charged with an error for diving and having the ball kick off his glove. Most official scorers are overly generous with hits.

All that aside, if you believe in UZR, giving Derek Jeter the Gold Glove wasn't nearly the travesty his previous GG awards were.

Have to agree with this. Announcers started breaking out the knee pads for Jeter back in the late 90's when his limited range meant he'd making diving plays and look spectacular on balls other shortstops would get to and make look routine. Jeter used to turn routine plays into highlight real dives and spin-throws. I firmly believe that's a large part of why he started winning the award.