Hey, take a talentless front office, add a lot of money, and you get 27 WS wins. Why shouldn't the mets try it, too?

MacG: ey, take a talentless front office, add a lot of money, and you get 27 WS wins. Why shouldn't the mets try it, too?

You obviously don't remember the Yankee teams of the mid 80s until the early 90s when Steinbrenner got suspended and someone sane (Gene Michael) finally took over. The Yankees threw good money after bad on has been free agents who could barely beat Billy Martin in a bar fight and let their farm system fall apart. Once Michaels, Watson and Cashman took over and rebuilt the farm system that was essentially it for George and his "advisers."

/very jealous Mets fan

"But their 671 runs were 12th and their 95 homers were a dead last out of the 16 teams. "

When the Giants, Padres, Nats, Pirates, A's, Royals, Reds all hit more HR's than your 150million dollar, 2nd highest-spending team..you need jebus.

Come on spending spree..
AL teams- Yanks, Sox, Angels
NL teams-Phillies, Mets, Dodgers

buy.up.everyone.

Is Mo Vaughn still available?

damageddude: Once Michaels, Watson and Cashman took over and rebuilt the farm system that was essentially it for George and his "advisers."

If only. The biggest problem during the Series drought was the struggle between the New York people, led by Cashman and Stick, and the chuckleheads in Tampa. Once that nonsense ended, things improved significantly.

Minaya should have been fired mid-season. Manuel too. Ugh.

MacG: Hey, take a talentless front office, add a lot of money, and you get 27 WS wins.


There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin.

From an outside perspective, I don't see why the Mets could manage to rebound this year. Without as many injuries, and a few key additions... why couldn't they be competitive?

How about the Mets just take a break from baseball for the next decade or so. They're a pathetic excuse for a team.

Do the Mets have any good, young talent to give away? Up here in Toronto the Doc is available and it seems the team are going to trade him now rather than before spring training nears and they start having to put with the media circus. Shame too, it's not too often any more a team gets to keep the best pitcher in baseball for almost a decade.

It's a shame that Tampa Bay is in the same division. They have by far the most young talent but the Jays don't want to trade him to a division rival.

lacydog: From an outside perspective, I don't see why the Mets could manage to rebound this year. Without as many injuries, and a few key additions... why couldn't they be competitive?

Because someone once, a long time ago (I presume sometime in the late 80's) decided that the Mets were destined for failure.

No matter how close they come to success, they will ultimately stumble into failure.


There you go, Mets fans. I will happily eat those words at a later date as most of friends who are Mets fans are starting to seem more defeatist than Cubs fans lately... and it's already starting to wear me down. I don't know how you non-cubs fan Chicago kids deal with it.

devioustrevor: Up here in Toronto the Doc is available and it seems the team are going to trade him now rather than before spring training nears and they start having to put with the media circus. Shame too, it's not too often any more a team gets to keep the best pitcher in baseball for almost a decade.

The Mets could get Doc for an Applebee's gift card if they agree to take the worst contract of all time in the deal.

Daniels: The Mets could get Doc for an Applebee's gift card if they agree to take the worst contract of all time in the deal.

I think the Hampton contract was worse than the Wells contract.

jmtrix587: There you go, Mets fans. I will happily eat those words at a later date as most of friends who are Mets fans are starting to seem more defeatist than Cubs fans lately... and it's already starting to wear me down. I don't know how you non-cubs fan Chicago kids deal with it.

The thing is the Cubs modus operandi is to somehow just fall short perennially. With the Mets, its not about falling short, its about spectacular crash-and-burns. Its about improbable defeats.

Its like watching a guy on his way to cashing in a winning powerball ticket have his car stall on the tracks of an oncoming train and getting struck by lightning.

I'm still too sad to even be a Phillies troll in this thread.

/goes back to crying

It's not the Mets fault they had a bad year. It was all the injuries!

I've been telling Mets fans that Minaya is the worst general manager in the National League all season. Seriously who is this guy blowing every day to keep his job?

/I'm not even going to rag on Mets fans this thread. This situation is just plain sad.

Delawheredad: I've been telling Mets fans that Minaya is the worst general manager in the National League all season. Seriously who is this guy blowing every day to keep his job?

I just looked at the current list of general managers (new window), and you know what, you're right. He's terrible, and he wasn't any great shakes in Montreal, either.

The Bestest: MacG: Hey, take a talentless front office, add a lot of money, and you get 27 WS wins.


There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin.

Leave me alone, I am very bitter.

Brad_Will: I think the Hampton contract was worse than the Wells contract.

The Hampton contract (like the Pavano contract) was almost defensible when it was offered and signed. At no point was Wells's contract defensible and it has only gotten worse.

MacG: The Bestest: MacG: Hey, take a talentless front office, add a lot of money, and you get 27 WS wins.


There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to begin.

Leave me alone, I am very bitter.

Hey, don't be upset.. it's good for MLB when the little guy wins. When a team of up and comers get together and beat the odds. Ya know, a working mans team wins a title, it warms the heart.

Delawheredad: I've been telling Mets fans that Minaya is the worst general manager in the National League all season. Seriously who is this guy blowing every day to keep his job?

So a guy who trolls every Mets-related thread with his burning hatred of the Mets and everything associated with them, tells the fans that something about the teams is the worst thing in the world?

I'm shocked. Truly.

Daniels

Attack the messenger, what a surprise from a Mets fan. Who would YOU rather have running the Mets Minaya or Ruben Amaro, Jr.?

More overrated underachieving has-beens are on their way

You rang?

Delawheredad: Attack the messenger, what a surprise from a Mets fan.

You're right. I can't imagine why I wouldn't take your opinion seriously.

Delawheredad: Who would YOU rather have running the Mets Minaya or Ruben Amaro, Jr.?

And, for the record, I'd rather have Omar Minaya. Thus far, Ruben Amaro Jr.'s track record is "taking over for one of the top 5 general managers ever".

If your question is Omar Minaya or Pat Gillick. The answer is Pat Gillick.

Please, Yankees fans, don't EVER refer to any period of time during which your team didn't win a WS as a "title drought." You have not lost enough to have earned that.

/Cubs fan.
//Even the Mets won during my lifetime.
///The Cubs haven't won during mine. Or my dad's. Or my grandfather's, and he's long dead.

Daniels

Well lets see Amaro pulled off the Cliff Lee (a guy Omar once traded away) deal all by his lonesome and in so doing brought the Phillies the pennant and two World Series games wins. In his first year Amaro has a better track record than anything Manaya has pulled off recently. The Phils gave up essentially nothing to land Lee and held on to their major prospects. Quite a horse trader I'd say.

Delawheredad:
Well lets see Amaro pulled off the Cliff Lee (a guy Omar once traded away) deal all by his lonesome and in so doing brought the Phillies the pennant and two World Series games wins. In his first year Amaro has a better track record than anything Manaya has pulled off recently. The Phils gave up essentially nothing to land Lee and held on to their major prospects. Quite a horse trader I'd say.

If you're going to use the Lee trade against Omar when he didn't think his franchise would exist the following year, then, again, it's not worth the argument. The Colon for Lee/Sizemore/Phillips trade was one of the most lopsided trades in history. Prospects were also totally worthless to an organization that was supposedly going to be contracted.

I guess Omar Minaya should have puchased hamstrings for Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran and elbow tendons for Johan Santana and John Maine. That's clearly his bad.

Daniels

The Mets could have grabbed Lee form the Tribe. They did not. It certainly isn't a question of money. So if it is not fair to blame Omar for trading away Lee is it ALSO unfair to point out that Omar could have gotten him back once he joined the Mets? Amaro saw the opportunity and took it with smashing results. Omar did NOT see the opportunity that is why he is an inferior GM.

Daniels: The Hampton contract (like the Pavano contract) was almost defensible when it was offered and signed. At no point was Wells's contract defensible and it has only gotten worse.

That's fair. But making a 9-figure commitment over that many years to a pitcher with an injury history like Hampton's is flat-out insane, especially in the pre-humidor Coors Field.

I would disagree that the Pavano contract is defensible. A National League pitcher has a great year and stays healthy for pretty much the first time ever? Great, bring him to the AL East for four years! And also sign effing Jaret Wright to a three year deal? COME ON.

The Wells contract, along with the Rios contract, demonstrates why J.P. Ricciardi should never be a Major League GM again. I swear, that man sent poor Ted Rogers to his grave.

Kind of hard to blame it all on Minaya when they lost an all-star lineup worth of players to injuries. Losing Reyes, Beltran and Delgado all in the first two and change months of the season is kind of absurd. The fact that they also lost a number of other key players to the DL is a bigger reason they lost than anything Minaya did or didn't do. I will add the Minaya's one trade this year of Church for Francouer has worked out pretty well. Frenchy hit .311, 90 hits, 10 HR, .836 OPS and 41 RBIs for the Mets in 75 games. In 82 games with the Braves, he was at .250, 76, 5, .634 and 35.

Daniels: I guess Omar Minaya should have puchased hamstrings for Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran and elbow tendons for Johan Santana and John Maine. That's clearly his bad.

Youre a mets fan and you are defending minaya? Really?

He is easily the worst GM in all of baseball and Im including the mexican leagues.

Delawheredad: Daniels

The Mets could have grabbed Lee form the Tribe. They did not. It certainly isn't a question of money. So if it is not fair to blame Omar for trading away Lee is it ALSO unfair to point out that Omar could have gotten him back once he joined the Mets? Amaro saw the opportunity and took it with smashing results. Omar did NOT see the opportunity that is why he is an inferior GM.

What the fark would the Mets have done with Cliff Lee last year? When you're way out of contention, you don't trade at the deadline for a top tier pitcher. That would be dumb. Yes, they'd have him for one year this year, but so what? Still not worth giving up what we'd give up.

/Minaya's made a lot of mistakes, but it's amazing the sort of things people try to pin on the guy.

Can Chone Figgins play 2b? How about 1b? I could get on board with that signing.

Damn I was hoping for rebuilding. Living in Buffalo and going to Bisons games was awful last year in our first year as the Mets top farm team.

threefeetoffun: Damn I was hoping for rebuilding. Living in Buffalo and going to Bisons games was awful last year in our first year as the Mets top farm team.


I grew up around a [Devil] Rays club and can sympathize. Anyone with any hope, shred, or resemblance of talent lasted about a week before getting moved up the chain fast in order to shore up the major league club. We got stuck with some real shiatbirds as a result.

The strangest thing about this situation is that the Winter Meetings are being held in Indiana of all places.

Nothing against Indianites...Indianianians...people from Indiana, but I'd think a nice week in Palm Springs or Naples, FL would be more their speed. What about New Orleans? Scottsdale?

I'd say Vegas but its a fight weekend and the Strip gets a little too colorful for my taste.

Dafatone: What the fark would the Mets have done with Cliff Lee last year? When you're way out of contention, you don't trade at the deadline for a top tier pitcher. That would be dumb. Yes, they'd have him for one year this year, but so what? Still not worth giving up what we'd give up.

First you keep the phillies from getting him for the sack of marbles they gave up, give me a break they could have given up something a little more for him at least than what phillie did.

What's wrong with trading for Lee, trying to impress him with your organization and then signing him to a longer term contract? Its a rebuilding year. Impress him with the Big Apple show him what he can look forward to in 2010! Ending the season in 2009 with the Mets could not possibly have been any worse than ending the season with the Indians. The Phils got him for peanuts the Mets could have too. Further the Phillies have him for next year and will probably have the money to keep him long term. Minaya missed out on a GOLDEN opportunity.

threefeetoffun: Damn I was hoping for rebuilding. Living in Buffalo and going to Bisons games was awful last year in our first year as the Mets top farm team.

If there's one thing the Indians organization does well, it's producing winning minor league baseball teams.

/The Akron Aeros won pretty much everything at AA this year
//Columbus makes geographical sense as a minor league team, though. And Buffalo makes more sense for NY.

Delawheredad: The Mets could have grabbed Lee form the Tribe. It certainly isn't a question of money. So if it is not fair to blame Omar for trading away Lee is it ALSO unfair to point out that Omar could have gotten him back once he joined the Mets? Amaro saw the opportunity and took it with smashing results. Omar did NOT see the opportunity that is why he is an inferior GM.

Your reasoning is flawed. The Phillies got Cliff Lee on July 29th, at which point they were 10 games out of first with none of their players back. Shipping out prospects when the season is over is quite possibly the stupidest thing he could have done. The fact he didn't make panic trades so they could still be under .500 is a good thing, not a bad thing. So, yes, pointing out that he could have traded for a player for no reason and still miss the playoffs is stupid. By this argument, the Pirates should have "saw the opportunity" and made the trade because the Mets had roughly the same chance to make the playoffs as they did by the deadline.

And, how good or bad this trade was won't be known for two or three years.

steamingpile: First you keep the phillies from getting him for the sack of marbles they gave up, give me a break they could have given up something a little more for him at least than what phillie did.

For what purpose? This is a stupid Mets' troll even by your standards. Did it occur to you that the Braves were 4 games back when this trade was made so, by your logic, they're equally at fault? And probably moreso since they were in contention at the time?

Daniels

As several have pointed out the Philles really gave up next to nothing to land Lee. The Mets are expecting all of their big guns back in 2010. They will need another arm in 2010 anyway. They could have had him for next year for what the Phillies gave up. I don't know how you can't see that the Mets would be a much better team in 2010 if they had Lee on the mound. Now Minaya has to spend big money to land someone who will probably turn out to be not as good as Lee when he could have had Lee for 2010 for a handful of beans.

Delawheredad

What you don't understand is the purpose of big names being moved near the trade deadline. It's to shore up teams in contention for the stretch run. I'd like to see your list of All Stars who have been traded to teams out of contention past mid-July. I'll wait. While I would like Lee on my beloved Mets, the whole "trade a superstar to a contender" has two parts: 1) it strengthens a good teams, and 2) is kind of a sign of respect to let the best players get a chance to play in the post-season while the old team gets some good players to build upon. Minaya's not to blame for this one. I would, though, like Bobby Valentine back as skipper at some point next year.

Delawheredad: As several have pointed out the Philles really gave up next to nothing to land Lee. The Mets are expecting all of their big guns back in 2010. They will need another arm in 2010 anyway. They could have had him for next year for what the Phillies gave up. I don't know how you can't see that the Mets would be a much better team in 2010 if they had Lee on the mound. Now Minaya has to spend big money to land someone who will probably turn out to be not as good as Lee when he could have had Lee for 2010 for a handful of beans.

I would beg you to show me the list of out-of-contention teams who have been buyers at the trade deadline. It is simply not done.

You have no idea (nor do I) the relative talent level the Phillies gave up. Nor do you seem to take in to account that, by August, the Mets top prospects WERE PLAYING FOR THE METS because of injuries.

steamingpile: Dafatone: What the fark would the Mets have done with Cliff Lee last year? When you're way out of contention, you don't trade at the deadline for a top tier pitcher. That would be dumb. Yes, they'd have him for one year this year, but so what? Still not worth giving up what we'd give up.

First you keep the phillies from getting him for the sack of marbles they gave up, give me a break they could have given up something a little more for him at least than what phillie did.

I'm sorry that the Phillies getting Cliff Lee hurts your Braves. That's not our problem.

steamingpile: Daniels: I guess Omar Minaya should have puchased hamstrings for Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran and elbow tendons for Johan Santana and John Maine. That's clearly his bad.

Youre a mets fan and you are defending minaya? Really?

He is easily the worst GM in all of baseball and Im including the mexican leagues.

I'm not a fan of Minaya's, but I can think of at least eight teams that would love to have him and his ability to open the owner's checkbook. How could you possibly blame an entire line-up's injuries on the GM? Your nick is appropriate.

threefeetoffun: Damn I was hoping for rebuilding. Living in Buffalo and going to Bisons games was awful last year in our first year as the Mets top farm team.

The Mets top minor league team was playing in Queens this past season.