Cut that meat!

Best QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.

Not as telling as if he set the record for passing yards over a 10 year span, but still awesome.

Peyton is probably the greatest ever. It's scary. Deserves more championships to show for it.

DamnYankees: Best statistical QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.


/drunk kicker!

HulkHands: DamnYankees: Best statistical QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.


/drunk kicker!

Yeah - stupid math. *REAL* QB's are determined by going with your gut.

DamnYankees: Yeah - stupid math. *REAL* QB's are determined by going with your gut balancing stats with wins and championships, as they are the leader of the team on the field.


FTFY. Joe, Tom, Bart, etc. all have an argument here.

\and yes, I left the other 4-time Super Bowl champion out because his stats aren't half as impressive as the above group....
\\what can I say, I'm a child of the 80s, Joe=God to me

If the Colts O-line wasn't allowed to hold on every down he would be average, at best.

HulkHands: DamnYankees: Best statistical QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.


/drunk kicker!

He's got one championship. He's not done yet. Besides, often the key to the Lombardi Trophy is a great defense -- which Peyton has never really had. The Patriots won their 3 Superbowls almost entirely on defense(when they tried to do it with offense, they lost). The Steelers won their recent Superbowls on great defense. It's almost like this whole football game is won and lost through a team effort. I think Cassel proved that last year, did he not?

Anyway, I'm not sure how else you can judge an individual player in team sport outside of statistics. Perhaps by coolness under pressure? But then Peyton has more comeback victories than any other quarterback than Brett Favre.

God damn you, Kris Brown.

Every year Brett Favre keeps playing, the longer Payton is gonna have to play before he overtakes him. Course, Payton wins a LOT.

Is he great? Yes
Is he top 5 ? Yes
Greatest of all time? Maybe

I wonder what inferior team will beat the Colts this year in the playoffs?

I have to say it seems to me the number of Peyton Manning commercials is way down this year, and I for one am bummed about that.

Most of those commercials cracked me up.

/maybe not on the 10,000th viewing of course
//shake it off Johnny

Train_of_Thought: Most of those commercials cracked me up.

Me, too. The man has a great ability to make fun of himself. Plus, he has pretty good comedic timing. In the Sony Reader commercial, he doesn't even have any lines, but when he smirks and shakes his head about Justin Timberlake, it's the funniest thing in the commercial.

I can deal with Peyton's commercials.
As long as he doesn't show up in a Subway commercial that runs every break for 2 months, then afterwards shows a "staged outtake" with fake laughter. I don't usually get murdery feelings, but Subway does that to me.

Coors commercials that use sideline and press conference footage of old coaches suck, too. You have unlimited resources, and so much potential, and yet you can't come up with anything funny. Not once? And I thought the Kid Rock commercial was as low as they could go.

So I can deal with Peyton's work on the field and off the field. Could be much worse.

It's on like Donkey Kong! (new window)

Apik0r0s: If the Colts O-line wasn't allowed to hold on every down he would be average, at best.

Cuts both ways. Freeney and Mathis are held pretty much every play themselves. Refs could probably call a holding on most every play of every game.

rmcooper4: Apik0r0s: If the Colts O-line wasn't allowed to hold on every down he would be average, at best.

Cuts both ways. Freeney and Mathis are held pretty much every play themselves. Refs could probably call a holding on most every play of every game.

I was yelling at the TV every third play because Mathis was getting held (down) like a PCP laced hooker. I didn't even get to see that LT on freeney most of the time.

Peyton is second to Favre in terms of who I'd pay money just to see throw the ball.

If you throw out the rings, and just want to see who is best pure QB, there is only one choice.

Marino

seabass242: If you throw out the rings, and just want to see who is best pure QB, there is only one choice.

Marino

You must mean passer. Best pure passer. And you'd have a good argument.

How does Elway get excluded from these conversations?

He also did one of the funniest SNL shorts in a long time.

United Way (new window)

Pentaxian: He also did one of the funniest SNL shorts in a long time.

United Way (new window)

Came for this... Good jorb....

/Cops!

Pentaxian: He also did one of the funniest SNL shorts in a long time.

United Way (new window)

I can't even look at you. Go sit in the Port-a-Lette for 20 minutes. WHY IS THE DOOR OPEN?

I still love that superbowl run he had, throwing more INT then TD's. One could almost say that Colts won In-spite of him.
Payton is a great regular season QB, but fails when it matters the most, this why he will be remember as the second best QB of this era.

Speaking of which, should be one hell of a good duel on sunday.

DamnYankees: Best QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.

I don't think they'll be forced to accept it until he has a few more rings. As it stands, there's a whole bunch of quarterbacks with more than Peyton. Before he finally won one, the knock on him was that no matter how deep into the playoffs he took his team, he always fell apart in the end. Great quarterbacks are at their greatest in the biggest games, and this has not been Peyton's usual pattern, so far.

Don't get me wrong. I like Peyton and think he's a great quarterback. But he's not the greatest, at least not yet.

Kevin Faulk has how many Super Bowl rings? Obviously one of the greatest running backs of all-time, since we use jewelery as the measuring stick.


/football = team sport

MrPitt: Kevin Faulk has how many Super Bowl rings? Obviously one of the greatest running backs of all-time, since we use jewelery as the measuring stick.


/football = team sport

Yes,because the QB is not the leader at all.

You remember how teams are always looking for that "Franchise 3rd down back"

Faulk is money on 3rd down in big games.

knobmaker: DamnYankees: Best QB ever. Time for people to start accepting it.

I don't think they'll be forced to accept it until he has a few more rings. As it stands, there's a whole bunch of quarterbacks with more than Peyton. Before he finally won one, the knock on him was that no matter how deep into the playoffs he took his team, he always fell apart in the end. Great quarterbacks are at their greatest in the biggest games, and this has not been Peyton's usual pattern, so far.

Don't get me wrong. I like Peyton and think he's a great quarterback. But he's not the greatest, at least not yet.

Actually it wasn't him that fell apart for the most part. There are obviously a few games where that is true, but his career QB rating in the playoffs is a hair under 90. That includes one game against the Pats where he threw 4 INTs and definitely fell apart.

If you would like an interesting read, try this 18to88 (new window)

fark2105: Yes,because the QB is not the leader at all.

He's the leader for less than half of the team.

To add to my point, if I am on the starting offensive line for the 2000-era Patriots, how many rings does Brady get? Does he even make the playoffs? Does he survive a season?

MrPitt: Kevin Faulk has how many Super Bowl rings? Obviously one of the greatest running backs of all-time, since we use jewelery as the measuring stick.


/football = team sport

Ha, you've created another argument with your post. I always use the backup QB when talking about alltime great QB's being measured by rings. In the last 20 years, there are what, about 40 QB's with more Superbowl rings than Dan Marino? Half of them are/were backups. Are they all better than him? Where do you draw the line?
Yes, it usually devolves into "define QB and all of his roles" and you start talking about "he's a football player" and "clutchiness" why does he have to comeback in the 4th quarter, he shouldn't have been losing in the first place...and other things you may not be able to measure.

But also interesting that you picked Kevin Faulk. In my mind, he's been more valuable to the Pats than Curtis Martin, Antoine Smith or Corey Dillon combined with his on field production, receiving skills, his pass blocking (which is phenomenal), and his special teams contributions. Not running on 1st or 2nd down kept him from gaining Hall of Fame yards and TD's on the ground. In my mind, he's easily in the Patriots Hall of Fame, and should have an argument for Pro Hall of Fame - but won't get in because his value can't be measured.
I think every franchise probably has 2 or 3 of these.

MugzyBrown: To add to my point, if I am on the starting offensive line for the 2000-era Patriots, how many rings does Brady get? Does he even make the playoffs? Does he survive a season?

Unless your name is Hochstein or Kaczur, you are more or less qualified to play on the right side of New England's ofensive line. And while Light is pretty good, he is easily the most overrated football player in the NFL.
So, yes, Brady would still have those rings, and you could too.

For my money, Brady taking Reche Caldwell to the AFC Championship game is his greatest feat. And David Givens and Deion Branch owe Brady millions...or at least they owe that money back to Tennessee and Seattle, respectively.

Kenthehillwilliam: Is he great? Yes
Is he top 5 ? Yes
Greatest of all time? Maybe

I wonder what inferior team will beat the Colts this year in the playoffs?

Notice how you slip from talking about an individual to a team?

Anyway, you really think the Colts get beaten by inferior teams? They normally get beaten by like the Steelers or Pats who go on to win the Super Bowl.

fark2105: Yes,because the QB is not the leader at all.

QBs are leaders of the offense, they don't do anything with special teams or defense and even being the leader of the offense doesn't mean you are entirely responsible for its performance.

Bill Frist: Kenthehillwilliam: Is he great? Yes
Is he top 5 ? Yes
Greatest of all time? Maybe

I wonder what inferior team will beat the Colts this year in the playoffs?

Notice how you slip from talking about an individual to a team?

Anyway, you really think the Colts get beaten by inferior teams? They normally get beaten by like the Steelers or Pats who go on to win the Super Bowl.

Sadly, it's been the Chargers that beat us. At least recently.

/Colts fan
//Go Broncos for the above reason

I'm just going to leave this here...

LEADING WITH THE FOREARM

/hates the colts now

Only one stat really matters

Manning:


Brady:



See you Sunday Peyton




_{/hot hot hot}

CThantos: How does Elway get excluded from these conversations?

He lost the Superbowl 4x and not just 4x but 4x IN A ROW. Impressive to get there, forgiveable if you don't, but nothing erases the stain of beign int he big game four times in a row and choking every single time.

This is why no Buffalo Bills Player from the same era can be considered the greatest anything of all time either.

Magorn: CThantos: How does Elway get excluded from these conversations?

He lost the Superbowl 4x and not just 4x but 4x IN A ROW. Impressive to get there, forgiveable if you don't, but nothing erases the stain of beign int he big game four times in a row and choking every single time.

This is why no Buffalo Bills Player from the same era can be considered the greatest anything of all time either.

He said Elway, not Kelly.

DamnYankees: Magorn: CThantos: How does Elway get excluded from these conversations?

He lost the Superbowl 4x and not just 4x but 4x IN A ROW. Impressive to get there, forgiveable if you don't, but nothing erases the stain of beign int he big game four times in a row and choking every single time.

This is why no Buffalo Bills Player from the same era can be considered the greatest anything of all time either.

He said Elway, not Kelly.

ahem MONTANA

bstud: ahem MONTANA

What about him?

I love Peyton Manning. Seems like a quality person and he might be the best QB in the game. That said, can we take a break from the made up records? I've been a stat hound for over 30 years - I can assure you all that the formerly appropriate answer to 'has anyone ever thrown for 40,000 yards in a decade before?' was, "Who gives a shiat?" - all this __________ in a decade and 'team of the decade'... as if that were a real thing, are starting to piss me off.

Magorn: CThantos: How does Elway get excluded from these conversations?

He lost the Superbowl 4x and not just 4x but 4x IN A ROW. Impressive to get there, forgiveable if you don't, but nothing erases the stain of beign int he big game four times in a row and choking every single time.

This is why no Buffalo Bills Player from the same era can be considered the greatest anything of all time either.

Fail post is fail

obzerver: Only one stat really matters

so then, Terry Bradshaw is the best?

obzerver: Only one stat really matters

Manning:


Brady:

You are absolutely correct that the ring is most important to the players. However, ring count does not equate to solving who might be the better player if building a team from scratch.

Fran Tarkenton took his team to four superbowls. They won zero. I'd take him any day over Joe Namath.
Jim Kelly, similar.
Dan Marino. I'd take him any day over either of the Redskin qb's that won superbowls.

stebain: Dan Marino. I'd take him any day over either of the Redskin qb's that won superbowls.

Mark Rypien?

JohnBigBootay: obzerver: Only one stat really matters

so then, Terry Bradshaw is the best?

bzackly.
Good solid qb. All time great. Greatest? f.no.