I like how the republicans, who did NOTHING to improve the health care system in the 6 years they ran everything in Washington, are now so anxious to give the Dems advice on how to proceed.

Dinki: I like how the republicans, who did NOTHING to improve the health care system in the 6 years they ran everything in Washington, are now so anxious to give the Dems advice on how to proceed.

They spent all that time thinking up a brilliant plan, unfortunately they ran out of time just as the plan was finished. Tragic timing.

I keep hearing a lot of whinging about how it's going to damage the 18% of our economy that is health care.

Health care shouldn't cost us 18% of our GDP. It should be closer to 7%.

So it's okay for the republicans to pack their bills with special favors and crap but it isn't ok for the democrats?

FT first line of the FA: Republicans have made a good case against the Democrats' health-care bill, and they have offered a decent alternative.

Did I miss that part when the Republicans offered up this decent alternative? When the hell did that happen, and where is it?

"There is no need to pack every reform into one sweeping bill, larded up with special favors and irresponsible spending, that will radically remake the American economy and health-care system."

::Stares at the line, looks over at the Patriot Act, then back at the line.::

Republicans are not part of the solution.

So just pass the tax cuts and we'll get around to the rest of the reforms later. Uh-huh.

Good of them to name the special favors and unnecessary spending for us.

unyon: Did I miss that part when the Republicans offered up this decent alternative? When the hell did that happen, and where is it?

It's called "Business as Usual." There was a memo.

Ah, so this is "YOU'RE GOING TOO QUICKLY" week. Since last week was "YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING", I guess we should have expected it.

what if we WANT to radically remake the American economy and health care system

Your Faith is Creepy: Republicans are not part of the solution.

Neither are the Democrats by the sound of things.

god what trolls... you seriously expect anyone to believe that you support a 1900 page bill, parts of which haven't been written yet, and that no one has read and then call Republicans stupid?

1/10

oldebayer: unyon: Did I miss that part when the Republicans offered up this decent alternative? When the hell did that happen, and where is it?

It's called "Business as Usual." There was a memo.

More importantly, where's the sacred 'PRIVATE SECTOR' solution? Did Glenn Beck's tears render it indecipherable?

real shaman: god what trolls... you seriously expect anyone to believe that you support a 1900 page bill, parts of which haven't been written yet, and that no one has read and then call Republicans stupid?

1/10

Hasn't this bill been online for months? Weren't people carting it around on national television days ago? Are you really this slow and stupid?

I hope they get it to a vote soon. can't get the damned republicans to quit kicking and screaming long enough to get it to a vote.

real shaman: , and that no one has read

Really? This bill's been around for three months and you still believe this? Are you serious?

real shaman: god what trolls... you seriously expect anyone to believe that you support a 1900 page bill, parts of which haven't been written yet, and that no one has read and then call Republicans stupid?

1/10

if no one has read it then how is it the right has found like a billion things they don't like about it?

RevMercutio: real shaman: god what trolls... you seriously expect anyone to believe that you support a 1900 page bill, parts of which haven't been written yet, and that no one has read and then call Republicans stupid?

1/10

Hasn't this bill been online for months? Weren't people carting it around on national television days ago? Are you really this slow and stupid?

Do you seriously expect that to be what comes out of the House-Senate Conference Committee after the House and Senate inevitably approve different bills to start with? No, that is the point where huge chunks of bills get replaced with mysteriously appearing versions various lawmakers require as their quid pro quo for the final vote.

Not that this is anything but normal legislating in Washington D.C., but anything else is historically unlikely.

Hobodeluxe: real shaman: god what trolls... you seriously expect anyone to believe that you support a 1900 page bill, parts of which haven't been written yet, and that no one has read and then call Republicans stupid?

1/10

if no one has read it then how is it the right has found like a billion things they don't like about it?


They have over-active imaginations.

Or, they're insane.

So, probably both.

Dinki: I like how the republicans, who did NOTHING to improve the health care system in the 6 years they ran everything in Washington, are now so anxious to give the Dems advice on how to proceed.

this
nothing else needs to be said. there is NO defense to the GOP position. they said that things were fine for 8 years. except for that massive government program for old people that they created medicare-Part D ...

"There is no need to pack every reform into one sweeping bill, larded up with special favors and irresponsible spending, that will radically remake the American economy and health-care system"

Why not? Do it all at once and get it over with.

$3 trillion... wasn't it $1.2 trillion yesterday?

unyon: FT first line of the FA: Republicans have made a good case against the Democrats' health-care bill, and they have offered a decent alternative.

Did I miss that part when the Republicans offered up this decent alternative? When the hell did that happen, and where is it?

I believe it is deregulation and tax cuts!!!@#$!. You know, so people can pull their failing kidneys up with their bootstraps.

It is better for the Democrats to fark us now, instead of all parties to try and work together for a better bill.
Am I right Democrats, is that what you are saying?
Anything with a Democrat stamp of approval is better than nothing?

torquestripe: instead of all parties to try and work together for a better bill.

Tried that. Republicans decided whining was a better route. Too bad.

I didn't read TFA, but the reason they are bundling so many things together, some of which are unrelated, is that it allows them to make spurious arguments about what the bill is intended to accomplish.

For instance, they've been arguing all along that health care costs are out of control. They're right, but these bills don't help. they use any money saved or gained through new taxes, if you can call it that at this point, to pay for new entitelments such as an expansion of medicaid. They do make some of the uninsured pay for some of it, but the reality is that they're lying about what this will cost and what will happen to health care. Their projections about costs are almost certainly wrong too, especially if there's a government option included.

Animatronik: I didn't read TFA, but the reason they are bundling so many things together, some of which are unrelated, is that it allows them to make spurious arguments about what the bill is intended to accomplish.

For instance, they've been arguing all along that health care costs are out of control. They're right, but these bills don't help. they use any money saved or gained through new taxes, if you can call it that at this point, to pay for new entitelments such as an expansion of medicaid. They do make some of the uninsured pay for some of it, but the reality is that they're lying about what this will cost and what will happen to health care. Their projections about costs are almost certainly wrong too, especially if there's a government option included.

You used "they" a lot in that paragraph with no specifics. Good work.

A QUESTIONNAIRE FOR ALL THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE:

If you will vote for someone regardless of their healthcare vote, I don't want to hear it.
If you will vote against them either way, I don't want to hear that either.

All I am interested in is whatever Democrats in Congress meet the following criteria:

1. If they cast a vote for healthcare, you will vote against them.
2. If they cast a vote against healthcare, you will vote for their re-election.

If you find that you cannot name any such Democrats, I have no further business with you.

cameroncrazy1984: Animatronik: I didn't read TFA, but the reason they are bundling so many things together, some of which are unrelated, is that it allows them to make spurious arguments about what the bill is intended to accomplish.

For instance, they've been arguing all along that health care costs are out of control. They're right, but these bills don't help. they use any money saved or gained through new taxes, if you can call it that at this point, to pay for new entitelments such as an expansion of medicaid. They do make some of the uninsured pay for some of it, but the reality is that they're lying about what this will cost and what will happen to health care. Their projections about costs are almost certainly wrong too, especially if there's a government option included.

You used "they" a lot in that paragraph with no specifics. Good work.

"They" are the Democrats. Or do you pretend that someone else is wrting their bills for them? Cuz last I heard they were going it alone.

Wait, so they are going after the Republican spending bills of the previous administrations?

Wow, who knew NRO had the stones to go against the Republican party and demand accountability!

Oh wait, they're only applying this to Demonrats. Yep, that's the good 'ol NRO. As long as we do it, we're okay with it. Should the other side do it, we demand they stop.

torquestripe: It is better for the Democrats to fark us now, instead of all parties to try and work together for a better bill.
Am I right Democrats, is that what you are saying?
Anything with a Democrat stamp of approval is better than nothing?

the gop has NO desire at all to have anything to do with a healthcare bill.
they proved this from 2001-2006 when they did nothing except for pander to old people and increase the federal government with MED part D
they proved this in 2007-2008 when they did nothing. they certainly didnt reach across the aisle to work with dems.
they proved this since jan 2009, every attempt to work with the goptards lead to the goptards voting against whatever was crafted.

so now, the goptards you elected get no say (or very little) in what will be passed without their votes.

YAY

oh yes, I am waiting to watch how fast the GOP will work to remove the democratic health plan, once the GOP gets back in power in 2016 or 2020
my guess, not so much

/yawn YAY we are goptards. can we has healthcare??

This reminds me of the time the republicans banned abortion when they were in power for that 6 years. What? They didn't? Hmmm....

There is no need to pack every reform into one sweeping bill, larded up with special favors and irresponsible spending

Larded up? The special favors and irresponsible spending are the meat of the bill. The larding-up is everything that happens afterwards.

I did not read the article nor the thread but I'm gonna guess theres alot of "B..b..but Republicans!!!" in the thread.

namatad: oh yes, I am waiting to watch how fast the GOP will work to remove the democratic health plan, once the GOP gets back in power in 2016 or 2020

Bingo. We just have to pass this once and the gains are going to be pretty much locked in. By the time the Republicans get back to power, it'll be too entrenched to roll back.

Republicans have made a good case against the Democrats' health-care bill, and they have offered a decent alternative

I love it when they start up front with the stupid. It means I can go on to other things...

IXI Jim IXI: Republicans have made a good case against the Democrats' health-care bill, and they have offered a decent alternative

I love it when they start up front with the stupid. It means I can go on to other things...


Don't you just love Democrats who have the balls to do whats in the best lesser of two evils interest for the country.

Giltric: Don't you just love Democrats who have the balls to do whats in the best lesser of two evils interest for the country.

I don't think this plan is necessarily the lesser of the evils...more like "one of the lesser of several evils".

HeadbangerSmurf: This reminds me of the time the republicans banned abortion when they were in power for that 6 years. What? They didn't? Hmmm....

hahaah
the GOP is completely and totally in FAVOR of abortion.
they want their wives and daughters to be able to get nice clean safe abortions whenever they want.

those dirty brown people should have to pay for having sex without protection!!

IXI Jim IXI: Giltric: Don't you just love Democrats who have the balls to do whats in the best lesser of two evils interest for the country.

I don't think this plan is necessarily the lesser of the evils...more like "one of the lesser of several evils".

what's wierd, is that we ALREADY pay for healthcare for people without insurance. they go to the er, they cant pay, we pay via higher insurance rates and taxes.

I wish that we could have a nice simple plan. increase our taxes a bit. let poor people go to "free clinics" and pay their ER bills like we already do.

/I also want a pony for xmas. and a billion dollars.

IXI Jim IXI: I don't think this plan is necessarily the lesser of the evils...more like "one of the lesser greater of several evils".

FTFY.

HeadbangerSmurf: This reminds me of the time the republicans banned abortion when they were in power for that 6 years. What? They didn't? Hmmm....

No one's gonna do much about abortion. It's too much of a draw, raises too much money, and brings out the vote for both sides. It's the goose that lays the golden egg of politics.

/Still hoping for health care.

namatad: what's wierd, is that we ALREADY pay for healthcare for people without insurance. they go to the er, they cant pay, we pay via higher insurance rates and taxes.

That little dose of reality doesn't play well with the bootstrappy crowd...

namatad: IXI Jim IXI: Giltric: Don't you just love Democrats who have the balls to do whats in the best lesser of two evils interest for the country.

I don't think this plan is necessarily the lesser of the evils...more like "one of the lesser of several evils".

what's wierd, is that we ALREADY pay for healthcare for people without insurance. they go to the er, they cant pay, we pay via higher insurance rates and taxes.
I wish that we could have a nice simple plan. increase our taxes a bit. let poor people go to "free clinics" and pay their ER bills like we already do.

/I also want a pony for xmas. and a billion dollars.

So if this bill passes a scenario like that will never happen again? Everyone is covered by insurance if this bill gets passed?


It seems like the American public is moving their own goalposts and just rooting for a bill to be passed no matter what it contains....just as long as something gets passed by "their team".

godofusa.com: $3 trillion... wasn't it $1.2 trillion yesterday?

The interest adds up fast. WE're farked.

Giltric:
It seems like the American public is moving their own goalposts and just rooting for a bill to be passed no matter what it contains....just as long as something gets passed by "their team".

They are called "Obamatons".
No free will of their own.

Dinki: I like how the republicans, who did NOTHING to improve the health care system in the 6 years they ran everything in Washington, are now so anxious to give the Dems advice on how to proceed.

Obviously, it doesn't need to be "improved." The present health care system provides a nice profit for the health care and pharma industry, doesn't it? What more do you want?