seriously--i don't understand how "shall issue" won't result in this happening all the time.

if, for example, a health insurance plan costs $10,000 and the fine for not having it is $2,000, plus you can get it with pre-existing conditions because of "shall issue," then it makes economic sense to wait until you're sick--you're saving $8,000 a year.

And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

came here to say the same thing... thank you.

this is sophomoric. It is calculated to do this; and in 5-10 years all of the current carriers, Principle, UHC, the Blue Crosses will cease to exist and except for the rich folk which will have their own hospital based plans in their own hospitals we will all have federal government medicare/ medicade plans.

And if anyone really believes we will pay even double what it currently costs seniors including their sups, please see me later. I have a real estate venture I guarantee will triple the 10,000.00 you will need to invest with me.

cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

currently insurers can deny new cusotmers with pre-existing conditions, and many states don't have community rating (look it up). the obama plan will provide insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions and have community rating. so it's really different

albo: cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

currently insurers can deny new cusotmers with pre-existing conditions, and many states don't have community rating (look it up). the obama plan will provide insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions and have community rating. so it's really different

Right, and so these sick people, instead of being taken care of early in their illnesses so that they can recover, end up wasting away, not working, being drains on society, only to end up getting treated eventually, at all of our expense, in the most expensive way imaginable: The Emergency room.

Or they just die.

Atillathepun: Right, and so these sick people, instead of being taken care of early in their illnesses so that they can recover, end up wasting away, not working, being drains on society, only to end up getting treated eventually, at all of our expense, in the most expensive way imaginable: The Emergency room.

then obama and the Ds should just say this is what they're trying to prevent, and that it's going to cost a lot more money to do it than they are telling everybody to achieve this worthy social goal.

albo: currently insurers can deny new cusotmers with pre-existing conditions, and many states don't have community rating (look it up). the obama plan will provide insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions and have community rating. so it's really different

OK, I read the article and see your point.
As I read it, the fix is fairly simple (hah!) Healthy people with insurance should not be allowed to drop it. Employers who provide insurance to healthy people can not have the option of opting out. Surely this obvious loophole can be fixed.

Yeah, this thing is totally off the tracks.

The only effective way to make this work is for the government to start its own insurance plan and begin collecting payroll premiums via the IRS like they do Medicare already.

That's what most liberals wanted to begin with, what they've got now ain't even close to that.

albo: if, for example, a health insurance plan costs $10,000 and the fine for not having it is $2,000, plus you can get it with pre-existing conditions because of "shall issue," then it makes economic sense to wait until you're sick--you're saving $8,000 a year.

Hey...I like that idea.

If only there were some method to make a guess on what would happen, and then test it. Perhaps something scientific.

Who would have thought someone named "Feldstein" would be so money conscious?

cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?

THIS!

will ≠ could

then sticking the rest of us with the bill



/ that would NEVER happen

veedeevadeevoodee: then sticking the rest of us with the bill

/ that would NEVER happen

We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others.

brainiac-dumdum: We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs.

You know who else thought that way?

The Onanist: brainiac-dumdum: We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs.

You know who else thought that way?

Thurston Howell the Third?

The Onanist: brainiac-dumdum: We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs.

You know who else thought that way?

Happily divorced men?

brainiac-dumdum:

We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others send illegales home.

/ FTFY
// now cut my lawn :)

veedeevadeevoodee: We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others send illegales home.

/ FTFY
// now cut my lawn :)

Are you going to pick lettuce for $15 bucks a day? Do you know anyone that would?

/Didn't think so...
//OWNED!

muck4doo: The Onanist: brainiac-dumdum: We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs.

You know who else thought that way?

Happily divorced women?

veedeevadeevoodee: brainiac-dumdum:

We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others send illegales home.

/ FTFY
// now cut my lawn :)

it's ilegales

So we're still pretending that OOGGA BOOGA ObamaCare is going to destroy the health care system by making up lies?

GAT_00: So we're still pretending that OOGGA BOOGA ObamaCare is going to destroy the health care system by making up lies?

As long as you're going to pretend that it's only going to cost $90 billion a year.

Chindit: this is sophomoric. It is calculated to do this; and in 5-10 years all of the current carriers, Principle, UHC, the Blue Crosses will cease to exist and except for the rich folk which will have their own hospital based plans in their own hospitals we will all have federal government medicare/ medicade plans.

And if anyone really believes we will pay even double what it currently costs seniors including their sups, please see me later. I have a real estate venture I guarantee will triple the 10,000.00 you will need to invest with me.

Actually, within 5 years all citizens will be converted into cyborgs, in the name of universal health care.

Ahh, what does he know. No one of any stature ever came out of Harvard anyway....

Wasn't that what individual mandates were supposed to prevent?

For the system to work, you have to have shared risk. If the system allows individuals to not share the risk, yes you have problems.

They trotted this tired argument out several months ago. Looks like they are running low on whargarbbl. It takes time to get signed up for insurance. It isn't like buying a book on amazon.

So, you can't just say, I want insurance today at noon.

veedeevadeevoodee: brainiac-dumdum:

We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others send illegales home.

/ FTFY
// now cut my lawn :)

I am all for that, but your Republican friends in government, not so much. Oh, they'll beat the drums of xenophobia, but in the end that cheap labor for their buddies is too sweet to give up.

cpw49684 2009-11-06 10:45:50 AM
And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

Came for this. Leaving happy.

So the cost will be recouped out of your income tax return should you choose to be in irresponsible citizen.

BREAKING NEWS: A SYSTEM THAT CAN BE MANIPULATED MAY BE MANIPULATED

PenguinTheRed: GAT_00: So we're still pretending that OOGGA BOOGA ObamaCare is going to destroy the health care system by making up lies?

As long as you're going to pretend that it's only going to cost $90 billion a year.

The Republican plan covers less and costs more. Please provide your evidence that it will cost more than 90 billion a year, and then provide a real alternative that doesn't cost more by doing less (we already have that).

Socialist, secret muslin, fascist is not a credible piece of evidence nor a credible alernative, since that is what you will fall back on, lacking anything worthwhile.

Use of the stupid term "ObamaCare" automatically invalidates any statement following. Thanks for playing, though.

is there a talking point dart board or talking point dice that these guys are using to direct their outrage?

/next up: DERTH PNNRLLLLZZZ!!!1!!1

trainwrecky and inappropriate: cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA

came here to say the same thing... thank you.

because you can currently be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.

1. An initial visit to a doctor is $10 (to discourage abuse). There are no other medical bills.
2. The government pays for everything with income tax.

Total doctor control of their own practice. No one ever avoids the hospital when they have a problem. No more insurance companies and far, far fewer bureaucrats- imagine the savings there alone!

This is what progressives and left-leaning Democrats have wanted for years. It's so simple and obvious that even a TV pundit or a Farker should be able to understand it. And you know what?

The government will never do it.

cpw49684: And how is that different than our current system?
DNRTFA


It's the other way around, asshole. Responsible people already pay their insurance. As soon as they get sick the insurance company drops them. FREE MARKET!

iaazathot: So, you can't just say, I want insurance today at noon.

Wife's COBRA ran out a week and a half ago. My employer doesn't have group. I applied at the beginning of October. I got denied and sent in my appeal by mid october. Last Monday the insurance company asked for medical records for my appeal.

So, A week and a half of no insurance and waiting on the insurance company's sweet time to find out of i qualify for their exclusive club.

Why denied? My cholesterol has been on the border for the past 3 years. Doctor and I finally decided at last month's physical that changes in my diet and excersize arn't enough. I'm on Crestor.

brainiac-dumdum: We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor

We educate their kids we give them welfare. Sure it's not good enough IMO but them being here is a burden on the fundamentally broken system.

fatimcgee: veedeevadeevoodee: We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others send illegales home.

/ FTFY
// now cut my lawn :)

Are you going to pick lettuce for $15 bucks a day? Do you know anyone that would?

/Didn't think so...
//OWNED!

So you believe we should exploite illegles? Question, where do you stand on slavery? Just wondering where you draw the line. $15 a day is OK, why not $0 a day?

make me some tea: Yeah, this thing is totally off the tracks.

The only effective way to make this work is for the government to start its own insurance plan and begin collecting payroll premiums via the IRS like they do Medicare already.

That's what most liberals wanted to begin with, what they've got now ain't even close to that.

Exactly. Single payer is the answer. Why are we farking around with all this govt/private insurer hybrid crap?

If you want national health care, just go with national health care instead of alot of pussy employer mandates and insurer restrictions.

/my .02, if its even worth that much

Antimatter: Chindit: this is sophomoric. It is calculated to do this; and in 5-10 years all of the current carriers, Principle, UHC, the Blue Crosses will cease to exist and except for the rich folk which will have their own hospital based plans in their own hospitals we will all have federal government medicare/ medicade plans.

And if anyone really believes we will pay even double what it currently costs seniors including their sups, please see me later. I have a real estate venture I guarantee will triple the 10,000.00 you will need to invest with me.

Actually, within 5 years all citizens will be converted into cyborgs, in the name of universal health care.

I'm in! When can I download into my new body?

brainiac-dumdum: We should just be able to exploit the undocumented for cheap labor. We owe them nothing after their bodies have been exhausted and are no longer capable of meeting our needs. Ship them back South where they may burden others.

yeah, that's how "work" works. Once you've been compensated for your work and your employer has made good on the terms of your employment, you are "owed" nothing. Society already thanked you by patronizing the company which employed you.

pootsie: Boehnercare!

After his fail with the preamble bidnss yesterday, what's not to love?

wet_dream: So you believe we should exploite illegles? Question, where do you stand on slavery? Just wondering where you draw the line. $15 a day is OK, why not $0 a day?

because slavery is involuntary. That's a mighty big distinction you missed.

skullkrusher: yeah, that's how "work" works. Once you've been compensated for your work and your employer has made good on the terms of your employment, you are "owed" nothing. Society already thanked you by patronizing the company which employed you.

This. Especially since there is an endless supply of them.

Fire up the United States Department of Public Health.
Shove everybody in there.
till it goes broke like social security.
it's gonna be fantastic

i can't wait! the future is filled with sunny days and rainbows and unicorns and lollipops.

government is gonna take care of us all.

Barack hussein obama mmmm mmmmm mmmmm !!!!

Petey4335: iaazathot: So, you can't just say, I want insurance today at noon.

Wife's COBRA ran out a week and a half ago. My employer doesn't have group. I applied at the beginning of October. I got denied and sent in my appeal by mid october. Last Monday the insurance company asked for medical records for my appeal.

So, A week and a half of no insurance and waiting on the insurance company's sweet time to find out of i qualify for their exclusive club.

Why denied? My cholesterol has been on the border for the past 3 years. Doctor and I finally decided at last month's physical that changes in my diet and excersize arn't enough. I'm on Crestor.

Ah rosuvastatin (Crestor), how did thee become 1st line? There are cheaper alternatives that should be just as effective. Tell your doctor you want a generic, like simvastatin. Then tell your big chain pharmacist (when the rx is dropped off) that you want your drug price-matched to walmart. If your doc writes for 90 tabs, and you follow protocol, you pay 10 bucks for 90 pills of good ole simvastatin.

http://www.med.umich.edu/1info/fhp/practiceguides/lipids.html