I'm not a huge fan of Verizon Wireless. I like the underlying technology (CDMA) but I'm not wild about the company itself. That said, AT&T deserves a severe beating for filing such a ridiculous suit. They are, by every definition, throwing a huge temper tantrum over the massive flak they've been taking in the media lately, both for their crappy network performance and for blaming said performance on their customers.

Die, AT&T. Die.

AT&T does not want people to notice the limitations on its 3G coverage, suggesting somehow, that any wireless data coverage it offers is good enough. If it were really good enough, people would not have upgraded to the iPhone to the 3GS, as I did.

Yeah, they're gonna have a hard time with this one. "Our 3G coverage is fun, but it's completely unnecessary! People are THRILLED with 140k EDGE coverage! Ha Ha!"

The commercial in question, which seems pretty obvious that they're talking about 3G.

AT&T has a long history of bullying customers and competitors, all the while they are charging exorbitant amounts for local "last mile" connections. Their arrogance is amazing. This is gonna bit them in the ass and I can't wait.

/getting rid of all my PRIs

Verizon has got to love the fact that AT&T is helping advertise that their 3G network is smaller.

R.A.Danny: Their arrogance is amazing. This is gonna bit them in the ass and I can't wait.

Dead-on. Fortunately, we have a relatively high amount of competition compared to even 15 years ago. Where you used to have one company for your home phone and two for cellular, you now have at least one for home, dozens (hundreds?) of VOIP providers, and at least a dozen cellular providers covering every market (four national carriers plus many MVNOs like Tracfone and StraightTalk). I'd like to see even more competition, but the point is that AT&T doesn't have the world by the throat like they used to.

Oh good, Verizon is calling them on their bullshiat. Should be a fun lawsuit.

Frankly both sides lawyers are just happy to be billing all these hours. At this corporate level very little logic is ever evident.

"The only G's I care about are the G's on AT&T's cheques, biatches."

EvilEgg: Verizon has got to love the fact that AT&T is helping advertise that their 3G network is smaller.

No publicity is bad publicity.

EvilEgg: Verizon has got to love the fact that AT&T is helping advertise that their 3G network is smaller.

Seriously, especially with the DROID being released today. I'm on VZW for the network and I'm hoping they haven't ruined Android with their typical bullying.

Gig103: Seriously, especially with the DROID being released today. I'm on VZW for the network and I'm hoping they haven't ruined Android with their typical bullying.

They haven't ruined Android (it'd be tough because users could just install a different ROM). What they've done is add exorbitant fees and data usage restrictions. Article here. (new window)

Wow. Smooth AT&T, real smooth.

hazeleyedwolff: They haven't ruined Android (it'd be tough because users could just install a different ROM). What they've done is add exorbitant fees and data usage restrictions. Article here. (new window)

Really, I don't see how that's "exorbitant". $30 for unlimited data? That's par for the course. And as for tethering, I've seen prices ranging from $15 (source, source, source) to $30. That is by no means "exorbitant". And in fact, even if tethering costs the full $30, then I'll still pay $30 as it's cheaper than a full data card at $60.

The same holds true with the data transfer restrictions; EVERY carrier has a 5gb limit. The difference is that this limit is generally not enforced on smartphone rate plans.

floor9: The same holds true with the data transfer restrictions; EVERY carrier has a 5gb limit. The difference is that this limit is generally not enforced on smartphone rate plans.

I've had an "Unlimited" Verizon data plan for years now and use my Motorola Q very frequently, for everything from web browsing to getting route and traffic info through Google Maps. I've never hit any cap.

/also just ordered a Droid *glee*

floor9: Die, AT&T. Die.

I have that tattooed on my chest, but it's actually German for "the AT&T, the."

The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate. Either that, or my AT&T 3G phone gets surprisingly good 3G signal for being smack dab in the middle of an area that has (according to Verizon) no 3G coverage.

cmcnabb314: The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate.

They look shockingly similar to AT&T's 3G coverage maps.

cmcnabb314: my AT&T 3G phone

Sweet anecdote, brah.

cmcnabb314: The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate. Either that, or my AT&T 3G phone gets surprisingly good 3G signal for being smack dab in the middle of an area that has (according to Verizon) no 3G coverage.

You mean the AT&T maps that Verizon used for their commercial.

Look for dark blue. It matches Verizon's image (new window)

floor9: hazeleyedwolff: They haven't ruined Android (it'd be tough because users could just install a different ROM). What they've done is add exorbitant fees and data usage restrictions. Article here. (new window)

Really, I don't see how that's "exorbitant". $30 for unlimited data? That's par for the course. And as for tethering, I've seen prices ranging from $15 (source, source, source) to $30. That is by no means "exorbitant". And in fact, even if tethering costs the full $30, then I'll still pay $30 as it's cheaper than a full data card at $60.

The same holds true with the data transfer restrictions; EVERY carrier has a 5gb limit. The difference is that this limit is generally not enforced on smartphone rate plans.

I pay 30 for unlimited data with ATT on my windows mobile device. I tether it for free legally even via bluetooth (att no longer offers it as a separate package-it's included in the unlimited data plan. I don't pay extra for MS Exchange traffic (which costs them no more overhead than regular data traffic). I've often exceeded 5GB a month. I haven't had my early termination fee double because I'm using a smartphone.

Oh, an unenforced limit is not a limit. Verizon (when I was with them), was terminating peoples' contracts that exceeded 5GB.

PC LOAD LETTER: Look for dark blue. It matches Verizon's image (new window)

Except that that is voice + EDGE + 3G coverage. AT&T's 3G-only coverage is pathetic compared to Verizon's 3G-only coverage. And that's what the commercial -- plain as day -- said. Heck, even SPRINT'S 3G coverage obliterates AT&T's 3G coverage, and that's just sad.

cmcnabb314: The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate. Either that, or my AT&T 3G phone gets surprisingly good 3G signal for being smack dab in the middle of an area that has (according to Verizon) no 3G coverage.

Here's AT&T's official 3G coverage map:


If you'd prefer it as a list, follow this link^ and you'll see that, in Virginia, they cover Alexandria, Arlington, Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond.

Now, you're in Blacksburg, so either you're most likely picking up coverage from Greensboro, Charleston and Richmond or you're exaggerating the quality of your 3G coverage or you're mistaken.

But AT&T's maps and coverage claims are what Verizon is using and that state Blacksburg isn't covered. If AT&T doesn't like it, perhaps they should update their maps and lists.

Yes! A Verizon thread! Sweet!

/has AT&T
//switching to Verizon for either the Droid or the BB Tour, depending on what I read in the Droid reviews

FishyFred: depending on what I read in the Droid reviews

Got my Droid today, changed from the Samsung i760. I am in absolute awe over how much better this phone is. Even with MS Exchange syncing. It totally rocks.

Eddy Gurge: Even with MS Exchange syncing. It totally rocks.

I don't need it to sync with exchange. My job isn't THAT time critical. Looks like I'm getting a Droid.

Nice job by Verizon's lawyers, now it's all on AT&T and there's no way they can prove their claim. This makes me happy.

Now this is interesting... I don't know what the map used to show, but going off of the link PC LOAD LETTER posted, they're no longer displaying 3G coverage on that map - you can only look at an itemized list of where you can get 3G coverage. At a glance, then, it looks like they're trying to fool people on what's 3G and what isn't.

Iiiiiinteresting. *taps fingers*

/unless I'm being special
//which is always possible

BrynnMacFlynn: Iiiiiinteresting. *taps fingers*

It's AT&T, they're trying to fark with people, it's what they do. And Verizon just called them on it.

PC LOAD LETTER:

Look for dark blue. It matches Verizon's image (new window)

The thing that pisses me off about that map is that I live here and I get 3G about 30% of the time I look at my phone. Now I realize that SF and the peninsula's load on 3G towers is well documented, BUT IT'S SILICON VALLEY! farkING FIX IT! I'm dropping AT&T like a bad pun as soon as my contract is up - fark my 3GS. Not worth it.

/Hates AT&T
//More than Bank of America
///Seriously.

AT&T wasn't able to put as much resources into its 3G network because they were too busy building spook rooms for the CIA.

/never forget

I work for a company that makes a program that uses the gps feature in phones.

Verizon blocks out 3rd party programs for most phones completely, so our software wont work, and on the ones they dont block it, the phones are setup out of the box to not work, and when you talk to them about it, they tell you you have to pay them an extra 20 bucks a month to get it to work (which is false)

not fond of verizon.

WhyteRaven74: It's AT&T, they're trying to fark with people, it's what they do.

What I never understood was why would Apple go with a company that has historically farked their customers up the ass?

Isn't Apple suppose to be the smart cool company with happy worry free customers?

floor9: hazeleyedwolff: They haven't ruined Android (it'd be tough because users could just install a different ROM). What they've done is add exorbitant fees and data usage restrictions. Article here. (new window)

Really, I don't see how that's "exorbitant". $30 for unlimited data? That's par for the course. And as for tethering, I've seen prices ranging from $15 (source, source, source) to $30. That is by no means "exorbitant". And in fact, even if tethering costs the full $30, then I'll still pay $30 as it's cheaper than a full data card at $60.

The same holds true with the data transfer restrictions; EVERY carrier has a 5gb limit. The difference is that this limit is generally not enforced on smartphone rate plans.

And if you pay for tethering you're doing it wrong.

yogaFLAME: floor9: Die, AT&T. Die.

I have that tattooed on my chest, but it's actually German for "the AT&T, the."

Well, no one who speaks German could be an evil man.

hazeleyedwolff: Oh, an unenforced limit is not a limit. Verizon (when I was with them), was terminating peoples' contracts that exceeded 5GB.

Help out an old man, will you? How much is 5GB? Like, how many Fark photoshop contest pages? How many songs on Pandora? How many Google Map searches for diners? If I watched a whole World Series game streamed on my phone (which apparently I could have), how many GB would it be by the time Mariano takes the mound?

AgonistAlex: I work for a company that makes a program that uses the gps feature in phones.

Verizon blocks out 3rd party programs for most phones completely, so our software wont work, and on the ones they dont block it, the phones are setup out of the box to not work, and when you talk to them about it, they tell you you have to pay them an extra 20 bucks a month to get it to work (which is false)

not fond of verizon.

I had this problem with my Q and it was frustrating to no end. Work gave me a Blackberry that doesn't seem to have the same issues, though, and from what I've seen the Droid won't either. Since it's supposed to work with Google's new navigation software, it had better not...

You know who AT&T should call?



/Can you hear me now? No?

AgonistAlex: the phones are setup out of the box to not work, and when you talk to them about it, they tell you you have to pay them an extra 20 bucks a month to get it to work (which is false)

not fond of verizon.

Ooh, could you help an old man too? I hate hate hate that I paid for a GPS device in my Blackberry Tour and that Verizon wants another $20/month to turn it on. Can you really do it without their permission? Please tell me how -- I would be one grateful liter.

Typical big corporation lies... The people they hire (PR flaks and lawyers) to boldly tell people that a pile of shiat is really delicious chocolate fudge should be ashamed of themselves.

That they feel and show no shame is the fault of a society which no longer values honesty, truthfulness, integrity and ethical behavior. It used to be a person's word was all he had which was truly his. It was something to be protected at all costs, since, if it is lost, it is never truly regained. Today, liars are just dismissed as "spinning" something, instead of being seen for what they really are: untrustworthy people (and companies) who should be avoided and shunned.

With any luck, the court will see AT&T's lawsuit as a frivolous waste of the court's time, throw it out, and allow Verizon and the government to charge all it's expenses regarding this waste of briefs to AT&T.

Manfred J. Hattan: Help out an old man, will you? How much is 5GB? Like, how many Fark photoshop contest pages? How many songs on Pandora? How many Google Map searches for diners? If I watched a whole World Series game streamed on my phone (which apparently I could have), how many GB would it be by the time Mariano takes the mound?

This can be tricky. There is no simple answer, because there are so many variables at play: the size of a picture in a Photoshop contest, the number of pictures posted in a Photoshop contest, the degree of compression used, the metadata in the webpage, and so on. A JPG image on the web is typically well under 100k, but can just as easily be several megabytes.

The best way to get an idea of how much usage can be crammed into 5GB is to pull up the properties of your PC's network connection. That will show you how much data you've transferred in a given session. So if you log in, check your email, read the news, catch up with old friends, and do some lightweight surfing, and discover that you've used 1GB of bandwidth, then a 5GB plan is not a good idea.

On the other hand, if a week of casual surfing consumes 1GB, then you're probably ok.

IANAL, but my guess is that they're gonna say that 'there's a map for that' is too closely related to "there's an app for that" and they're gonna biatch about that instead.


But if when AT&T loses, there will be lots of red eyes from all the crying. Luckily there's a visine for that.

Cool. I hope Verizon wins and then burns in hell for their nickel-and-dime shiat.

/ Can we get a lawsuit for that too some time?
// Please?

PC LOAD LETTER: cmcnabb314: The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate. Either that, or my AT&T 3G phone gets surprisingly good 3G signal for being smack dab in the middle of an area that has (according to Verizon) no 3G coverage.

You mean the AT&T maps that Verizon used for their commercial.

Look for dark blue. It matches Verizon's image (new window)

So...in other words, if they were to partner up the way Sprint and Verizon have, we'd all have nearly nationwide 3G coverage, with the only exceptions being the truly remote areas where no one expects to get 3G anyway?

/sometimes the competitive side of capitalism can be a pain the ass
//usually not, but sometimes

I think it's great that finally there are phones available that allow Verizon customers make and receive calls outside the US.

What is that like 20 years after the rest of the world figured it out?

We got hubby's Droid at lunch. He hasn't put it down for more than 5 minutes since then. He's set up work mail, configured the GPS, etc. I keep hearing, "This is COOL!" amongst all the ringtone-setting and "DROID" messages announcing new emails. He even had to show me the kernel version.

He's in love. :P

whistleridge: So...in other words, if they were to partner up the way Sprint and Verizon have, we'd all have nearly nationwide 3G coverage, with the only exceptions being the truly remote areas where no one expects to get 3G anyway?

Sprint and Verizon really haven't "partnered up", though. They have compatible systems (both use CDMA) and roaming agreements but that's it. Sprint and Verizon Wireless maintain 100% independent networks. Sprint customers can't roam on Verizon's EVDO networks, and the same is true in reverse.

On T-Mobile, we've got Droid Jr.

The Cliq is still supposed to be pretty cool, but it doesn't ship with Android 2.0.

timujin: cmcnabb314: The maps that Verizon is showing on television are, in fact, inaccurate. Either that, or my AT&T 3G phone gets surprisingly good 3G signal for being smack dab in the middle of an area that has (according to Verizon) no 3G coverage.

Here's AT&T's official 3G coverage map:


If you'd prefer it as a list, follow this link^ and you'll see that, in Virginia, they cover Alexandria, Arlington, Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond.

Now, you're in Blacksburg, so either you're most likely picking up coverage from Greensboro, Charleston and Richmond or you're exaggerating the quality of your 3G coverage or you're mistaken.

But AT&T's maps and coverage claims are what Verizon is using and that state Blacksburg isn't covered. If AT&T doesn't like it, perhaps they should update their maps and lists.

They've apparently 'flipped the switch' on 3G around the University of Virgina. My buddy can pick it up on his Iphone 3Gs while in town and up to and around the C'ville airport, but not at home (about 15-20 miles from downtown), zero 3G coverage that close...

An AT&T store salesperson told me I'd have no problem getting service with my iPhone. Then I was unable to place or receive calls from my home or office.

AT&T, EABOD.