Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.
Alan Keyes's daughter is a lesbian.
Sonny Bono's daughter was a lesbian, then she got a sex change.
Ronald Reagan's son is a liberal.
Fred Phelps has a gay son.
I think Barry Goldwater had a gay son, or a gay nephew.

Sgt Otter: Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.
Alan Keyes's daughter is a lesbian.
Sonny Bono's daughter was a lesbian, then she got a sex change.
Ronald Reagan's son is a liberal.
Fred Phelps has a gay son.
I think Barry Goldwater had a gay son, or a gay nephew.


Not to mention the countless conservative politicians who have been embroiled in their gay sex scandals.

Even if a gay person isn't married, they are still gay.

In less than a month I've seen these polls claim that we have next to no "self-described republicans", and over 50% of the population is "democrat" yet apparently liberals are also a dying breed and conservatism is on the rise.

In other news, Sea levels are on the rise, and we may be facing a water-free planet by 2020.

Barbigazi: Even if a gay person isn't is married, they are still gay.

I gay married an aborted fetus so Obama wouldn't lock me into a re-education center. I was skeptical at first, but we've been very happy together.

Barakku: In less than a month I've seen these polls claim that we have next to no "self-described republicans", and over 50% of the population is "democrat" yet apparently liberals are also a dying breed and conservatism is on the rise.

These are not contradictory facts. What's going on is that "conservative" and Republican are becoming completely synonymous (hence why it's going from 30 to 35% or whatever), and "moderate" and "liberal" are almost entirely meaning Democratic. There are virtually no more moderate Republicans, whereas wide swathes of Democrats are moderate. They're cornering themselves into 35-40% of the country and shutting out the large moderate part of the country that finds themselves with nowhere else to turn but to the reasonable-by-comparison Democrats. This is what happens when you have a small tent.

Preemptive note: this is ideologies, not parties. The Democrats are so right-center these days it's pretty easy to consider yourself a Democrat and call yourself a conservative.

Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Even if a gay person isn't is married, they are still gay.

Yeah,that too. I keep getting the feeling that "Conservatives" think that once gay marriage is banned all the gays will go away.

It won't, we'll still be here and we'll still want to be treated like people.

Barbigazi: Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Even if a gay person isn't is married, they are still gay.

Yeah,that too. I keep getting the feeling that "Conservatives" think that once gay marriage is banned all the gays will go away.

It won't, we'll still be here and we'll still want to be treated like people.

I don't agree. I think "conservatives" think gays will still be around as an underclass, a group of second-class citizens that they can discriminate against and feel superior to. It's surprising how comfortable many "conservatives" are with that state of affairs.

Gay rights: it's the civil rights battle that conservatives are going to WIN!!!

/according to them

Your Faith is Creepy:
Gay rights: it's the civil rights battle that conservatives are going to WIN!!!

/according to them

Has there been *any* civil rights battle that conservatives have won in the long run? Do they really think gay marriage isn't going to be more widespread than it is today in 10 or 20 years?

/it's a rising tide. all they can do is slow it down.

Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Even if a gay person isn't is married, they are still gay.

Yeah,that too. I keep getting the feeling that "Conservatives" think that once gay marriage is banned all the gays will go away.

It won't, we'll still be here and we'll still want to be treated like people.

I don't agree. I think "conservatives" think gays will still be around as an underclass, a group of second-class citizens that they can discriminate against and feel superior to. It's surprising how comfortable many "conservatives" are with that state of affairs.

Gay rights: it's the civil rights battle that conservatives are going to WIN!!!

/according to them

Agreed. But then, they'll be dead, and they won't have to deal with the horrors of CHANGE in their lifetime.

Sorry. Still bitter about Maine (and California before that).

(bah, quoted wrong post. Mine to Racht.)

Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Your Faith is Creepy: Barbigazi: Even if a gay person isn't is married, they are still gay.

Yeah,that too. I keep getting the feeling that "Conservatives" think that once gay marriage is banned all the gays will go away.

It won't, we'll still be here and we'll still want to be treated like people.

I don't agree. I think "conservatives" think gays will still be around as an underclass, a group of second-class citizens that they can discriminate against and feel superior to. It's surprising how comfortable many "conservatives" are with that state of affairs.

Gay rights: it's the civil rights battle that conservatives are going to WIN!!!

/according to them

I think its more in the vein of Iran and SOAP, "There ain't no Homos in Texas" type shiat. Not that they enjoy oppressing people, that interferes with their Christian image of themselves.

No, I embrace civil rights and responsible politics. If that makes me part of a minority so be it.

It's true. Liberals are going extinct because we heterosexual liberals are all being converted to the gay by the nefarious advocates of the homosexual agenda. I can't tell you how many times I've left wingnut re-education camp planning meetings with my fellow libs wanting to suck cawk.

patrick767: It's true. Liberals are going extinct because we heterosexual liberals are all being converted to the gay by the nefarious advocates of the homosexual agenda. I can't tell you how many times I've left wingnut re-education camp planning meetings with my fellow libs wanting to suck cawk.

How YOU doin?

'-)

that must explain why republican self-identification is at 20 percent.

If stereotypes have taught me anything it's that most conservatives are bizarrely religious trailer-trash rednecks with 14 children because they can't figure out condoms.

Kublai Khan: If stereotypes have taught me anything it's that most conservatives are bizarrely religious trailer-trash rednecks with 14 children because they can't figure out condoms.

And those are the positive stereotypes.

Old news is old.

As a married, heterosexual liberal with two kids I'm really getting a kick out of this headline.

I really don't care about the wharrgarbling or anything else. If you oppose gay marriage, you're a bigot. It would be nice if you stopped being a bigot in the future, but eventually you and others like you will die of old age, and more rational attitudes on the subject will prevail.

End of discussion.

I can't wait until I'm an old man listening to "conservative" candidates talk about how they ALWAYS favored equal rights for gays, just like they were pioneers in women's suffrage and abolition.

Lionel Mandrake: I can't wait until I'm an old man listening to "conservative" candidates talk about how they ALWAYS favored equal rights for gays, just like they were pioneers in women's suffrage and abolition.

I just wonder who they're going to hate next.

Old thread from last week is old...

Idiocracy.

I wouldn't say I embrace abortion and gay marriage, I just don't care what goes on in your bedroom or your doctor's office.

patrick767: It's true. Liberals are going extinct because we heterosexual liberals are all being converted to the gay by the nefarious advocates of the homosexual agenda. I can't tell you how many times I've left wingnut re-education camp planning meetings with my fellow libs wanting to suck cawk.

No, we're just smart enough to get fixed so we can fark at will and not give the world another mouth to feed. I know, it's weird that heterosexual couples wouldn't want to spawn, but it's true.

And believe it or not, those of us not trying to make babies have no problem with the homosexual agenda either. Not interfering in people's private life used to be a conservative position, right?

Lionel Mandrake: I can't wait until I'm an old man listening to "conservative" candidates talk about how they ALWAYS favored equal rights for gays, just like they were pioneers in women's suffrage and abolition.

Hee hee.

I am amazed that the younger generation doesn't care. I don't know why. I can only think it's at least in part due to the courage and bravery of those people who had the guts to live as openly gay, who told their stories.

Abortion should be between a woman and her doctor -- it's none of my business. And if 2 people want to marry, let them. Who cares if they are the same sex?

The people who cry tradition are full of it, just the same as those who are happy gay marriage laws are voted down. In the 1850s and 60s freeing the slaves would have been voted down. That doesn't make what was the done to the slaves right.

75 years ago my grandparents broke tradition and eloped in lieu of letting my great-grandparents use a match maker. 50 years ago, the nice inter-racial couple who used to live next door got married, even though that was illegal in many states. In both cases those marriages harmed no one but the bigots who have nothing better to do than to spread their hate and make others miserable. Anyway, gay marriage is not nearly as much an issue with the younger generations as it is with the old bigots, so that will eventually not be an issue conservatives can hang their klan hood on.

While I agree that their should be as few abortions as possible, it is not for the government to make medical decisions based on their religious beliefs. People have different opinions on when life begins and every individual needs to find their own path. And if the conservatives would get those sticks out of their butts and teach their children something more than "don't do it" they'll probably make a dent on the abortion problem.

Headline: Conservatives outnumber liberals due to liberals embracing abortion the right to farking choose, gay marriage.

There you go.

Obdicut: I am amazed that the younger generation doesn't care. I don't know why.

I think it's because of TV. TV Shows with openly gay characters and actors force people to confront their prejudice. When you claim to hate gay people, you're implicitly including all those people, from Ellen Degeneres to Neil Patrick Harris.

Conservatives outnumber liberals due to liberals embracing abortion, gay marriage

I thought Conservatives were against government interference

The Icelander: I think it's because of TV. TV Shows with openly gay characters and actors force people to confront their prejudice. When you claim to hate gay people, you're implicitly including all those people, from Ellen Degeneres to Neil Patrick Harris.

I think working side-by-side with them helps, too.

But I can get on boards with crediting the whole thing to Neil Patrick Harris.

ToxicMunkee: I wouldn't say I embrace abortion and gay marriage, I just don't care what goes on in your bedroom or your doctor's office.

The funny thing is that I always thought those were Republican concepts.

Guess not.

Sgt Otter: Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.




....and his mother's a lesbian, and his greasy granny has holes in her panties! BYAAAAAHHHH!

Obdicut: The Icelander: I think it's because of TV. TV Shows with openly gay characters and actors force people to confront their prejudice. When you claim to hate gay people, you're implicitly including all those people, from Ellen Degeneres to Neil Patrick Harris.

I think working side-by-side with them helps, too.

But I can get on boards with crediting the whole thing to Neil Patrick Harris.

Its really simple - when your parents don't teach you to hate people, you tend to not hate them.

The_Sponge: and his mother's a lesbian

that's his wife

Racht:

Has there been *any* civil rights battle that conservatives have won in the long run?


By definition, no. There hasn't.

Underlying the mythic narrative of American conservatism is the desire to return to an imagined past. Therefore, in their minds, by definition any change at all is change for the worse unless it replicates the "nostalgic America" of their imagination (which never actually existed). It's fundamentally a paranoia-driven ideology. Conservative pundits harp about "freedom" and "citizenship" and American Patriotism," but increasing the range of people to whom terms like "freedom," "citizen" and "American" apply will still terrify them.

They are convinced that "freedom," "equality," "citizenship" and "patriotism" are non-renewable resources, just as much as physical geologists are convinced that oil is a non-renewable resource. (Of course the geologists are correct- I'm just using that as an analogy.) Therefore, if blacks/women/gays/Mexicans/whoever is the "target du jour are granted more freedom, equality, citizenship and/or patriotism, someone must be losing some!

If you start with the assumption that there is only a fixed and limited amount of "freedom" to go around, then any time I get more, someone must have got less as a result.


I'm not saying this is a logical or reasonable way to think- I'm not justifying it- I'm just trying to explain it. Social conservatives really do seem to believe that if others gain freedom, they must be losing it.

That's really how they think.



Do they really think gay marriage isn't going to be more widespread than it is today in 10 or 20 years?

/it's a rising tide. all they can do is slow it down.

With any luck, they can't do much of that either.



Perspective:
Just before I was born, a Catholic had the audacity to run for president, and there were huge outcries from the conservatives of the time.


When I was a child, banks wouldn't issue credit cards to women. Women had cards in the names of their fathers or their husbands.

When I was a young child, marriage between people of different "races" was illegal in some places.

When I was an early adolescent, homosexuality was still officially listed as a mental disorder.

Last year, a woman and a "mixed race" man were the two leading candidates for one of the major parties. That could not have happened when I was a child.

An out gay president is inevitable, although it may be a while.

Social conservatives always lose in the long run. Always. It's built into the philosophy.

The idea that we can "return to the glory days" has been around a lot longer than the modern GOP. The equivalents were present in Ancient Rome and Athens as well.

They were just as wrong then as they are now.

/pretentious history buff rant. ;-)

brainiac-dumdum: Conservatives outnumber liberals due to liberals embracing abortion, gay marriage

I thought Conservatives were against government interference

Well, if last November is any indication, the headline proves that they're against math.

After that, everything else is kind of secondary, I think! ;-)

damageddude: Abortion should be between a woman and her doctor -- it's none of my business.


What about the father?

Obdicut: But I can get on boards with crediting the whole thing to Neil Patrick Harris.

I'd totally go gay for NPH.

Or John Barrowman.

brainiac-dumdum: Conservatives outnumber liberals due to liberals embracing abortion, gay marriage

I thought Conservatives were against government interference

Sure, unless it affect their wallet or pertains to legislating morality...

DamnYankees: Its really simple - when your parents don't teach you to hate people, you tend to not hate them.

But I know plenty of younger kids who's parents are strongly anti-gay, who have no problem with them.

Hell, my parents are strongly anti-gay, but I grew up feeling gay people were okay. I think it's because of living in San Francisco, and seeing gay people around, and going, 'Huh. They're not trying to come over and steal me and make me a sex slave.'

I'm not saying you're wrong-- obviously I'm giving an anecdote.

Pastor of Muppets: brainiac-dumdum: Conservatives outnumber liberals due to liberals embracing abortion, gay marriage

I thought Conservatives were against government interference

Sure, unless it affect their wallet or pertains to legislating morality...

but wouldn't that be moral relativity? I thought Conservatives were against that as well.

The_Sponge: damageddude: Abortion should be between a woman and her doctor -- it's none of my business.


What about the father?

My "default setting" from an ethical perspective is that both parents should have equal say. However, my default setting from a practical perspective is that (a) men don't have to carry the child to term, so the woman's opinion carries slightly more weight because she has to do the actual work and (b) men are more likely to run out on a pregnancy and leave the woman to deal with it than women are, so again, the one with the greatest responsibility has more rights.

Ideally, every pregnancy would be a deliberate decision between a married couple who both wanted a child. If we can find a way to that ideal world, I will be happy. In the meantime, whoever pays the greatest price should have the most say.

Obdicut:

But I know plenty of younger kids who's parents are strongly anti-gay, who have no problem with them.


Definitely! But I know of almost no examples of the reverse, where egalitarian parents raise bigoted children.

FloydA: Definitely! But I know of almost no examples of the reverse, where egalitarian parents raise bigoted children.

I know one, but he's a total asshole. By the time he was 25 he was in jail for fraud.*

His parents wonder where they went wrong. I think he just decided to be a little ass.

So yes, I get your point entirely, and think that it goes a long way. I think it's probably, in the end, a combination of factors.

I'm just very glad it's come about in my lifetime. I wasn't sure, when I was younger, if it would.

*Embezzled from the Connecticut GOP, which is very mean.

FloydA: My "default setting" from an ethical perspective is that both parents should have equal say. However, my default setting from a practical perspective is that (a) men don't have to carry the child to term, so the woman's opinion carries slightly more weight because she has to do the actual work and (b) men are more likely to run out on a pregnancy and leave the woman to deal with it than women are, so again, the one with the greatest responsibility has more rights.

Ideally, every pregnancy would be a deliberate decision between a married couple who both wanted a child. If we can find a way to that ideal world, I will be happy. In the meantime, whoever pays the greatest price should have the most say.


But that's the problem.....if the man doesn't have any say in the decision (and that's fine), then why should he get nailed with child support when he had no input in said decision?

BTW, there was a legal case where the father wanted the child and the mother did not, but she had a miscarriage before they could go to court.