"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?"
"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
"Humans - who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals - have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and 'animals' is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them - without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
--all Carl Sagan
Centre of the Milky Way Galaxy, Spitzer Space Telescope infrared photo
jekxrb:"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?"
"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
"Humans - who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals - have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and 'animals' is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them - without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
--all Carl Sagan
He sounds like he thinks he's all superior and stuff. I loved Cosmos, but he never struck me as a very humble man.
Howie Spankowitz:susansto-helit: Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World really did change my entire worldview. I'd recommend it to anyone.
Finishing it right now. Awesome.
It was alright, and I especially loved the "Baloney Detection Kit" chapter. But, I can't say it really changed my world view. That could be because I'd generally reached that level of skepticism by the time I'd read it, so it was mostly a collection of more examples of why I should consider being the way I already was.
I much prefer "Pale Blue Dot". The little bit in the first chapter, which is similar to the graduation speech he gave, still brings tears to my eyes.
But, yeah, I really admired Carl Sagan. He had such a talent for taking some rather difficult science and putting it in very human terms that anyone can understand, should they choose to.
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Isaac Newton
/pretty much how I feel as a physicist. So far, I've only solved little problems. Fortunately, I take great joy in that... cheers
The image above was taken at the request of Sagan by the Voyager 1 science team as the robot was passing the 3.7 Billion miles-from-home-marker. Yes, that's us on that little dot at the center right of the image.
"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
I liked it. I don't think it's as extreme as PETA; he is simply reminding us that we, too, are animals and that we should watch our behaviour toward other animals with whom we share the planet. I think it is a good idea to treat other animals with some respect and ensure that they don't suffer; I think it is possible to do that and still eat meat, tbh. The idea that 'it's just an animal' is very common among humans, but we are all living, breathing creatures who can suffer. It shouldn't be a case of 'us' and 'them', but a recognition that we are all animals and we all have a responsibility to act toward others as best we can.
His point, I believe, is more about reminding us that we are nothing more than cruel, little animals who think we are special, superior beings.
muck4doo:He sounds like he thinks he's all superior and stuff.
He's a brilliant man, but nothing about what I've quoted there is particularly 'superior'. However, you've very neatly pinpointed what is a major problem with today's society; if you sound intelligent, then you are condemned as 'elite' and 'superior'. It's almost unacceptable to be intelligent, because to say anything intelligent is to be shunned. Meanwhile it's the height of admirability to be able to throw a ball. Idiocracy is going to end up being incredibly prophetic, I suspect...
wjllope:"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Isaac Newton
That's really lovely. And very well said. :-)
I like these of Sagan's, too:
"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true. We have a method, and that method helps us to reach not absolute truth, only asymptotic approaches to the truth - never there, just closer and closer, always finding vast new oceans of undiscovered possibilities. Cleverly designed experiments are the key."
"The size and age of the Cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. In a cosmic perspective, most human concerns seem insignificant, even petty. And yet our species is young and curious and brave and shows much promise. In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival. I believe our future depends on how well we know this Cosmos in which we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky."
"If we long for our planet to be important, there is something we can do about it. We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers."
jekxrb:His point, I believe, is more about reminding us that we are nothing more than cruel, little animals who think we are special, superior beings.
Yep, I agree with the sentiment of your interpretation. I don't like his version though: a corrolary of "we are not special" is "animals are therefore certainly not special." Now, I am not a cruel person, and I love animals; I'd be a veterinarian if it weren't so damn hard to become one.
But. People of many religious and moral backgrounds can at least agree to believe in the food chain. Failure to recognize our superiority to the rest of the animals - in at least that capacity - is as every bit as kooky as religious zealotry that Sagan warns against.
I Farked Your Mom
2009-11-04 03:59:31 PM
ne2d
2009-11-04 04:01:42 PM
jonasborg
2009-11-04 04:01:48 PM
susansto-helit
2009-11-04 04:52:16 PM
Watchman
2009-11-04 05:37:59 PM
FloydA
2009-11-04 05:47:09 PM
Absolutely! One of the best books of the past 20 years, IMO.
Howie Spankowitz
2009-11-04 05:51:32 PM
Finishing it right now. Awesome.
KickahaOta
2009-11-04 07:02:01 PM
territ
2009-11-04 07:06:21 PM
The Icelander
2009-11-04 07:30:04 PM
If he counts documentaries about Nazi UFOs and shows about "ghost researchers," then, yes, there are whole channels dedicated to science.
jekxrb
2009-11-04 07:36:00 PM
"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?"
"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
"Humans - who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals - have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and 'animals' is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them - without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
--all Carl Sagan
muck4doo
2009-11-04 07:43:12 PM
"The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."
"In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."
"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
"Humans - who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals - have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and 'animals' is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them - without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us."
--all Carl Sagan
He sounds like he thinks he's all superior and stuff. I loved Cosmos, but he never struck me as a very humble man.
yogaFLAME
2009-11-04 07:48:37 PM
Why the random PETAGARBL at the end?
mamoru
2009-11-04 08:09:34 PM
Finishing it right now. Awesome.
It was alright, and I especially loved the "Baloney Detection Kit" chapter. But, I can't say it really changed my world view. That could be because I'd generally reached that level of skepticism by the time I'd read it, so it was mostly a collection of more examples of why I should consider being the way I already was.
I much prefer "Pale Blue Dot". The little bit in the first chapter, which is similar to the graduation speech he gave, still brings tears to my eyes.
But, yeah, I really admired Carl Sagan. He had such a talent for taking some rather difficult science and putting it in very human terms that anyone can understand, should they choose to.
Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener
2009-11-04 08:17:33 PM
What would that be?
The. Best. Performance. Ever.
You know it.
"Billions and billions of stars... Missshhhter Anderssshhhon..."
Marcus Aurelius
2009-11-04 08:38:08 PM
wjllope
2009-11-04 08:40:01 PM
"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Isaac Newton
/pretty much how I feel as a physicist. So far, I've only solved little problems. Fortunately, I take great joy in that... cheers
Son of Thunder
2009-11-04 08:40:19 PM
That's nice and all, except for the fact that everyone believes that their view of the universe is the way it really is.
jst3p
2009-11-04 08:41:36 PM
Shopped.
jack21221
2009-11-04 08:43:55 PM
Pale Blue Dot (new window)
"We succeeded in taking that picture [from deep space], and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
--Carl Sagan
jekxrb
2009-11-04 08:48:28 PM
I liked it. I don't think it's as extreme as PETA; he is simply reminding us that we, too, are animals and that we should watch our behaviour toward other animals with whom we share the planet. I think it is a good idea to treat other animals with some respect and ensure that they don't suffer; I think it is possible to do that and still eat meat, tbh. The idea that 'it's just an animal' is very common among humans, but we are all living, breathing creatures who can suffer. It shouldn't be a case of 'us' and 'them', but a recognition that we are all animals and we all have a responsibility to act toward others as best we can.
His point, I believe, is more about reminding us that we are nothing more than cruel, little animals who think we are special, superior beings.
muck4doo: He sounds like he thinks he's all superior and stuff.
He's a brilliant man, but nothing about what I've quoted there is particularly 'superior'. However, you've very neatly pinpointed what is a major problem with today's society; if you sound intelligent, then you are condemned as 'elite' and 'superior'. It's almost unacceptable to be intelligent, because to say anything intelligent is to be shunned. Meanwhile it's the height of admirability to be able to throw a ball. Idiocracy is going to end up being incredibly prophetic, I suspect...
wjllope: "I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."
- Sir Isaac Newton
That's really lovely. And very well said. :-)
I like these of Sagan's, too:
"The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true. We have a method, and that method helps us to reach not absolute truth, only asymptotic approaches to the truth - never there, just closer and closer, always finding vast new oceans of undiscovered possibilities. Cleverly designed experiments are the key."
"The size and age of the Cosmos are beyond ordinary human understanding. Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. In a cosmic perspective, most human concerns seem insignificant, even petty. And yet our species is young and curious and brave and shows much promise. In the last few millennia we have made the most astonishing and unexpected discoveries about the Cosmos and our place within it, explorations that are exhilarating to consider. They remind us that humans have evolved to wonder, that understanding is a joy, that knowledge is prerequisite to survival. I believe our future depends on how well we know this Cosmos in which we float like a mote of dust in the morning sky."
"If we long for our planet to be important, there is something we can do about it. We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers."
Hack of all trades
2009-11-04 08:50:36 PM
Either way, Sagan rulz. The picture of the 'pale blue dot' changed my life.
squirrelinator
2009-11-04 09:01:15 PM
Puzzling....
Infinite Monkey
2009-11-04 09:06:08 PM
yogaFLAME
2009-11-04 09:06:29 PM
Yep, I agree with the sentiment of your interpretation. I don't like his version though: a corrolary of "we are not special" is "animals are therefore certainly not special." Now, I am not a cruel person, and I love animals; I'd be a veterinarian if it weren't so damn hard to become one.
But. People of many religious and moral backgrounds can at least agree to believe in the food chain. Failure to recognize our superiority to the rest of the animals - in at least that capacity - is as every bit as kooky as religious zealotry that Sagan warns against.