Im sure the British Gov will just let them keep the Gold.

1000 sailors? On a sailing ship? They must have been packed in like sardines.

toddalmighty: 1000 sailors? On a sailing ship? They must have been packed in like sardines.

Nonsense, there's room for plenty of seamen on such a vessel.

Wight Power: toddalmighty: 1000 sailors? On a sailing ship? They must have been packed in like sardines.

Nonsense, there's room for plenty of seamen on such a vessel.

Sure, but that is a good way to end up with sails that are all crusty and stuff.... what? you get salty spray when you are on the ocean.

Yeah, a billion dollars at gold's current price. Only half a billion at its price next year.

the HMS Victory which sunk in 1744 killing 1000 men

Put him on trial! Hanging's too good for him!

I don't know why you would load down an infamous warship with a billion dollars worth of gold.

I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

indarwinsshadow: I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

Cemetary is the same as a shipwreck where the international law is Finders Keepers?

American company wants to raise the HMS Victory which sunk in 1744 killing 1000 men.

How will raising the ship kill 1000 men? And why would they want to?

They're looking in the wrong place.

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: indarwinsshadow: I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

Cemetary is the same as a shipwreck where the international law is Finders Keepers?

Warships remain property of their country, no matter who finds them. So the HMS Victory is the UK's to oversee permantly.

What are they going to do with the $10 million in gold?

Odyssey's claim to fame is the salvaging of the SS Republic which sank in 1865 off Cape Hatteras. They recovered over 50,000 gold & silver coins from the wreck and did some nifty archaeology in the process, all without destroying the site by dredging it up. It's likely Stemm & Co. would treat the Victory with the same reverence, all documented on video.



/has written for Odyssey but isn't an employee
//just sayin'

i thought it was in portsmouth. is that one just a model?

I think this wreck was one of the driving forces behind Harrison's longitudinal watches. Precise timekeeping allowed precise longitudinal location of ships anywhere on the globe.

toddalmighty: 1000 sailors? On a sailing ship? They must have been packed in like sardines.

Well, the HMS Victory was enormous.

First thing that came to mind.

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name [TotalFark] Quote 2009-11-04 05:09:22 PM
indarwinsshadow: I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

Cemetary is the same as a shipwreck where the international law is Finders Keepers?


Woo hoo. I'm heading to Canadian Tire and getting a pick and shovel. Easy money. Here I come.

toddalmighty: 1000 sailors? On a sailing ship? They must have been packed in like sardines.

They slept packed like sausages in 18 inch wide hammocks slung in the gun decks. And you thought your bed was uncomfortable.

1,550+ drowned- HMS Association, HMS Eagle, HMS Romney and HMS Firebrand (Admiral Cloudesley Shovell squadron shipwrecks), Isles of Scilly, (22 October 1707)

That was the one that got the ball rolling on the longitude prize, I believe.

The alternative is to leave the wreck as is where the gold is left unused and the artifacts become lost. Shipwreck salvage continues to be a controversial subject. Unless something has changed recently, Odyssey Marine Exploration is still embroiled with the Spanish govt. over another wreck.

As far as the respect of the grave aspect, well it's a matter of perspective or perhaps elapsed time. From my understanding, the British are pretty much on board with this effort. The holdup is the red tape and planning out what will be a very expensive excavation and preservation project. At least that is what I understood from Treasure Quest. Besides, the British have been behind other salvage operations before, such as the Mary Rose.

Approves

some_beer_drinker: i thought it was in portsmouth. is that one just a model?

This isn't the H.M.S. Victory that was at Trafalgar (Nelson's flagship), this is a completely different ship. The Trafalgar Victory is a museum ship now in Portsmouth. They're talking about this (new window) Victory, which sunk in 1744.

Well as a mass grave I doubt they would get approval.

plamadude30k: This isn't the H.M.S. Victory that was at Trafalgar (Nelson's flagship), this is a completely different ship. The Trafalgar Victory is a museum ship now in Portsmouth. They're talking about this (new window) Victory, which sunk in 1744.

Darnit!

Was going to comment on how disturbing one of England's greatest historical symbols of military dominance solely for turning some cash was a total dick move in the name of "American enterprise"!

Was, alternatively, going to suggest hauling her up and having the U.S. Constitution and Constellation sail there and pummel her into splinters on the 4th of July, complete with sparklers, fireworks, and a flyover by Dubba, Jr. Now that's an American enterprise!

/Just kidding Brits. Seriously, all in fun.

Wasn't there a thread earlier (in the summer, I believe) where some divers found a buttload of gold in a British ship in international waters, then the UK sued to keep the gold? And the British originally stole it from the Spanish Armada or something along those lines?

Kalashinator: Wasn't there a thread earlier (in the summer, I believe) where some divers found a buttload of gold in a British ship in international waters, then the UK sued to keep the gold? And the British originally stole it from the Spanish Armada or something along those lines?

Sounds like a good story, woulda gone from Aztec or Inca to Spanish, to British to whomsoever decided to try and steal it.

British don't steal anything. If anything falls into our hands after a fight it's hard earned through gallant heroics, medals all round. It's the Spanish who stole it nefariously from one of the native American tribes! We liberated that gold. Oh yes.

I wonder where the gold on board the Victory came from. (Shoulda read the article, but it's late, and I can't be bothered to scroll up, click and read)

Slaxl: British don't steal anything that small.

Ireland or Hong Kong or India is more a Brit-type heist.

TheOther: Slaxl: British don't steal anything that small.

Ireland or Hong Kong or India is more a Brit-type heist.

Taking land through warfare is stealing now? Although Hong Kong was only, unfortunately, leased. So what are you going to do about all the parts of the USA that were stolen and then NOT handed back to original occupants?

Have they considered I'll sink it again as soon as they raise it?

/Total War geek
//sucks at naval battles

... and then the gold will be returned to the exploited and brutally massacred native peoples who were enslaved to extract it and the proceeds will be used to educate the current residents of North and South America, of the misery and devastation that their forefathers committed so that they can continue the injustices in their own lives as they benefit from the spoils of the murdered.

Oh, the natives weren't Jews? OK, carry on!

from a different article (I think it's different anyway)
Link (new window)

Jason Williams, executive producer of JMW Productions, which filmed the discovery, said: "Reports from the time say that the ship was carrying four tonnes of gold, around £400,000 sterling, which it picked up from Lisbon on its way to Gibraltar. Today this has a bullion value of £125 million, but that is just its raw weight. That means it is worth about a billion dollars."

The Ministry of Defence has given the company permission to go back down to the wreck to try to find the treasure.

The British Government will legally own any gold that is recovered, but Greg Stemm, chief executive officer of Odyssey Marine Exploration, said he was in negotiations and would expect to be rewarded for the find.

and from another site

Link (new window)

"The HMS Victory was returning from Lisbon, Portugal, and was probably transporting 100,000 gold Portuguese coins for merchants, according to Odyssey's research. The ship had sailed there to help rescue a Mediterranean convoy blockaded by the French in the River Tagus at Lisbon."

TheShavingofOccam123: HMS Romney

I knew there was something fishy about him.

mdbirt:

Oh, the natives weren't Jews? OK, carry on!

burn

indarwinsshadow: I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

Yea because land and open ocean are identical. If you're going to make some comparison at least make it...comparable.

It's technically still the property of Britain under marine salvage laws, but guess where most of the profit from raising that wreck is going to go?

hint: not Britain

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: indarwinsshadow: I wonder if the American gov't will allow me to go dig up the cemeteries of New York. I hear a lot of rich jews were buried with their jewelery. I want to see if it's true.

Yea because land and open ocean are identical. If you're going to make some comparison at least make it...comparable.

It's technically still the property of Britain under marine salvage laws, but guess where most of the profit from raising that wreck is going to go?

hint: not Britain

Yeah, because nobody has ever dug up and lotted graves on land. Where do you think all that stuff in museums came from? Stealing buried treasures from graves is a sacred tradition of western civilization.

Loki-L: Yeah, because nobody has ever dug up and lotted graves on land. Where do you think all that stuff in museums came from? Stealing buried treasures from graves is a sacred tradition of western civilization.

For the love of christ, if you're going to do a comparison then at least do so with other marine salvage.

Tw1ster: First thing that came to mind.

What, a book about bogus WWII cryptography reminds you of 18th Century warships? Is it because there is a stash of gold in the Craptonomicon, and there *MIGHT* be gold on the HMS Victory?

So it's not in Orsini?

dittybopper: Tw1ster: First thing that came to mind.

What, a book about bogus WWII cryptography reminds you of 18th Century warships? Is it because there is a stash of gold in the Craptonomicon, and there *MIGHT* be gold on the HMS Victory?

Sunken ship with gold in it: this article
Sunken U-Boat with gold in it: Cryptonomicon

Gotta be honest, I thought Cryptonomicon as well.
/may or may not be reading it right now

i thought it was in portsmouth. is that one just a model?

The HMS Victory that is preserved in Portsmouth Naval Shipyard is the sucessor to this vessel. Her keel was laid on 23 July 1759. She is a first rate Ship-of-Line (100+ guns). By tradition, 7 names were reserved for first rates. Victory was the only one not in use in 1759. She is most famously associated with Vice Admiral Lord Sir Horatio Nelson and the Battle of Trafalgar, which occurred 21 October,1805. I'd like to get to see her one day

EconKheldar: dittybopper: Tw1ster: First thing that came to mind.

What, a book about bogus WWII cryptography reminds you of 18th Century warships? Is it because there is a stash of gold in the Craptonomicon, and there *MIGHT* be gold on the HMS Victory?

Sunken ship with gold in it: this article
Sunken U-Boat with gold in it: Cryptonomicon

Gotta be honest, I thought Cryptonomicon as well.
/may or may not be reading it right now

See, my first thought was the Atocha.

Shotgun_Mosquito:

The British Government will legally own any gold that is recovered, but Greg Stemm, chief executive officer of Odyssey Marine Exploration, said he was in negotiations and would expect to be rewarded for the find.

Arise, Sir Greg. Thanks for all that gold, btw.

Slaxl: TheOther: Slaxl: British don't steal anything that small.

Ireland or Hong Kong or India is more a Brit-type heist.

Taking land through warfare is stealing now?

Uh...yes, it is.

Although Hong Kong was only, unfortunately, leased.

Originally, it was taken by the Brits from China because the Chinese objected to the opium trade. So you could say it was more like a drug lord seizing property from the government for not participating in drug activity...good times!

So what are you going to do about all the parts of the USA that were stolen and then NOT handed back to original occupants?

Where do think the US learned it, motherlander?