Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Redundant subby is redundant.

Bestbank Tiger: Both.

Yep

MuadDib: img25.imageshack.us

True, but the corrupt ones are against a public option or single payer.

Health care reform: Socialism or Grandma killing? For more on this story, we turn to our unbiased reporter, Sarah Palin.

You repeated yourself there, submitter.

Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

I came in here to say pretty much this. But at least with THIS particular corruption, it may actually benefit us to a small degree.

well it's democrat backed...so i'm going with government corruption

FTA 'For those who oppose the Public Option, more easily understood as "Medicare for all," one has to consider why anyone would be against it?'

Ok, I see where this is going. I would be happy with "Medicare for all". The Public Option is not even close.

/Socialism!

Response to this article should be telling.

there is no such thing as gov't spending that is in some way not corrupt

regardless of party, anything coming out of washington is corrupt

and because of that... it's politics as usual

You said rape twice.

Just give us a single-payer system and be done with it. Oh that's right, we can't because we're spending billions in Iraq. Silly me.

dudemanbro: Just give us a single-payer system and be done with it. Oh that's right, we can't because we're spending billions in Iraq. Silly me.

ok, so wait until we leave Iraq before trying to reform healthcare?

Amerika's government is riddled with corruption through and through. The only way there will ever be any REAL change is through blood shed. Massive blood shed. But since that will never ever happen, the wifey and I are getting the f*ck outa dodge while the getting is good.
Sad. I missed the America my pop and grandpop used to talk about. I never got to see it, and never will.

earth: Amerika's government is riddled with corruption through and through. The only way there will ever be any REAL change is through blood shed. Massive blood shed. But since that will never ever happen, the wifey and I are getting the f*ck outa dodge while the getting is good.
Sad. I missed the America my pop and grandpop used to talk about. I never got to see it, and never will.

See ya. Don't let America's door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

earth: Amerika's government is riddled with corruption through and through. The only way there will ever be any REAL change is through blood shed. Massive blood shed. But since that will never ever happen, the wifey and I are getting the f*ck outa dodge while the getting is good.
Sad. I missed the America my pop and grandpop used to talk about. I never got to see it, and never will.

Yeah, the days of your pop and grandpop. Great days.

AdamK,
ok, so wait until we leave Iraq before trying to reform healthcare?

Sounds about right.

AdamK: dudemanbro: Just give us a single-payer system and be done with it. Oh that's right, we can't because we're spending billions in Iraq. Silly me.

ok, so wait until we leave Iraq before trying to reform healthcare?

If we want to have anything resembling an economy... yeah. (also: sadly)

/single payer ftw.

It would figure douche bags like you would still wave the flag.
Too stupid to think for yourselves, too stupid to see what is in front of your eyes everyday. Too stupid to put and end to what is one of the most corrupt, heavy handed, out-for-it-all governments in the history of the modern world.
I thought to myself I should stay and 'fight', but for what reasons? For a free America for douche bags like you? F*ck you.
American's claim that 'this is the greatest nation on earth', but it's not. Anyone with half an I.Q. point can see that. We as a nation allow our government to spread it's poisonous hands across the globe with our own ignorance, our own misplaced self superiority, and our own personal greed for things such as SUVs and flat screen TVs.
Why would we spend over 600 BILLION dollars on defense for ONE year, and argue endlessly about 90 billion over 10 years for health care.?
Why does America poison South American civilians in our efforts to curb OUR need for cocaine, invade a country ILLEGALLY under the guises of freeing it's population/WMDs? Why were there more Blackwater people in country in Iraq than our own soldiers? Water boarding, monetary manipulation on a global scale, illegally detaining without legal representation, the Patriot Act and NSA wiretapping, CIA operating on American soil, loading the FDA with lobbyists from the very companies they are supposed to be policing?
The list goes on and on and on and on.
If you are too stupid to see that your country is NOT what it says it is, what we the people say we want it to be, and what every other country can see plainly from outside our little box, then don't get all pissy with someone who can see it.
Like I said, it's not worth the effort to save it for assholes and douche bags such as yourselves.
R.I.P. Amerika.

^^^^Socialism took away his ability to use paragraphs =(

earth: It would figure douche bags like you would still wave the flag.
Too stupid to think for yourselves, too stupid to see what is in front of your eyes everyday. Too stupid to put and end to what is one of the most corrupt, heavy handed, out-for-it-all governments in the history of the modern world.
I thought to myself I should stay and 'fight', but for what reasons? For a free America for douche bags like you? F*ck you.
American's claim that 'this is the greatest nation on earth', but it's not. Anyone with half an I.Q. point can see that. We as a nation allow our government to spread it's poisonous hands across the globe with our own ignorance, our own misplaced self superiority, and our own personal greed for things such as SUVs and flat screen TVs.
Why would we spend over 600 BILLION dollars on defense for ONE year, and argue endlessly about 90 billion over 10 years for health care.?
Why does America poison South American civilians in our efforts to curb OUR need for cocaine, invade a country ILLEGALLY under the guises of freeing it's population/WMDs? Why were there more Blackwater people in country in Iraq than our own soldiers? Water boarding, monetary manipulation on a global scale, illegally detaining without legal representation, the Patriot Act and NSA wiretapping, CIA operating on American soil, loading the FDA with lobbyists from the very companies they are supposed to be policing?
The list goes on and on and on and on.
If you are too stupid to see that your country is NOT what it says it is, what we the people say we want it to be, and what every other country can see plainly from outside our little box, then don't get all pissy with someone who can see it.
Like I said, it's not worth the effort to save it for assholes and douche bags such as yourselves.
R.I.P. Amerika.

lighten up francis

earth: It would figure douche bags like you would still wave the flag.
Too stupid to think for yourselves, too stupid to see what is in front of your eyes everyday. Too stupid to put and end to what is one of the most corrupt, heavy handed, out-for-it-all governments in the history of the modern world.
I thought to myself I should stay and 'fight', but for what reasons? For a free America for douche bags like you? F*ck you.
American's claim that 'this is the greatest nation on earth', but it's not. Anyone with half an I.Q. point can see that. We as a nation allow our government to spread it's poisonous hands across the globe with our own ignorance, our own misplaced self superiority, and our own personal greed for things such as SUVs and flat screen TVs.
Why would we spend over 600 BILLION dollars on defense for ONE year, and argue endlessly about 90 billion over 10 years for health care.?
Why does America poison South American civilians in our efforts to curb OUR need for cocaine, invade a country ILLEGALLY under the guises of freeing it's population/WMDs? Why were there more Blackwater people in country in Iraq than our own soldiers? Water boarding, monetary manipulation on a global scale, illegally detaining without legal representation, the Patriot Act and NSA wiretapping, CIA operating on American soil, loading the FDA with lobbyists from the very companies they are supposed to be policing?
The list goes on and on and on and on.
If you are too stupid to see that your country is NOT what it says it is, what we the people say we want it to be, and what every other country can see plainly from outside our little box, then don't get all pissy with someone who can see it.
Like I said, it's not worth the effort to save it for assholes and douche bags such as yourselves.
R.I.P. Amerika.

Dude, I want to speak to you clearly and coherently, but I can't because I'm kinda farked up on painkillers and bourbon. So what I'm going to do is to tell you to reel it in a little bit and try again with a tad more control, because honestly? I can't tell what the hell you're going for here.

In all seriousness, I think we're on the same page (again, bourbon and painkillers) but I really don't know. Maybe relax a bit with the hyperbole, and try again. That said, I think I like where you're going with this, so don't back down, people probably need to here this.

Good god, I'm as incoherent as you.

Screw it, people are retarded, roll with it.

earth: It would figure douche bags like you would still wave the flag.
Too stupid to think for yourselves, too stupid to see what is in front of your eyes everyday. Too stupid to put and end to what is one of the most corrupt, heavy handed, out-for-it-all governments in the history of the modern world.
I thought to myself I should stay and 'fight', but for what reasons? For a free America for douche bags like you? F*ck you.
American's claim that 'this is the greatest nation on earth', but it's not. Anyone with half an I.Q. point can see that. We as a nation allow our government to spread it's poisonous hands across the globe with our own ignorance, our own misplaced self superiority, and our own personal greed for things such as SUVs and flat screen TVs.
Why would we spend over 600 BILLION dollars on defense for ONE year, and argue endlessly about 90 billion over 10 years for health care.?
Why does America poison South American civilians in our efforts to curb OUR need for cocaine, invade a country ILLEGALLY under the guises of freeing it's population/WMDs? Why were there more Blackwater people in country in Iraq than our own soldiers? Water boarding, monetary manipulation on a global scale, illegally detaining without legal representation, the Patriot Act and NSA wiretapping, CIA operating on American soil, loading the FDA with lobbyists from the very companies they are supposed to be policing?
The list goes on and on and on and on.
If you are too stupid to see that your country is NOT what it says it is, what we the people say we want it to be, and what every other country can see plainly from outside our little box, then don't get all pissy with someone who can see it.
Like I said, it's not worth the effort to save it for assholes and douche bags such as yourselves.
R.I.P. Amerika.

You're forgetting that every country sucks in some way. Humanity in general is farked up, not just America. Look at Japan, Brazil, South Africa, Spain, Mexico, Russia, or Iceland and anyone can figure that out.

The question is, what are you going to do once you know, and how are you going to make your current situation better?

Isn't corruption politics as usual?

earth: It would figure douche bags like you would still wave the flag.
Too stupid to think for yourselves, too stupid to see what is in front of your eyes everyday. Too stupid to put and end to what is one of the most corrupt, heavy handed, out-for-it-all governments in the history of the modern world.
I thought to myself I should stay and 'fight', but for what reasons? For a free America for douche bags like you? F*ck you.
American's claim that 'this is the greatest nation on earth', but it's not. Anyone with half an I.Q. point can see that. We as a nation allow our government to spread it's poisonous hands across the globe with our own ignorance, our own misplaced self superiority, and our own personal greed for things such as SUVs and flat screen TVs.
Why would we spend over 600 BILLION dollars on defense for ONE year, and argue endlessly about 90 billion over 10 years for health care.?
Why does America poison South American civilians in our efforts to curb OUR need for cocaine, invade a country ILLEGALLY under the guises of freeing it's population/WMDs? Why were there more Blackwater people in country in Iraq than our own soldiers? Water boarding, monetary manipulation on a global scale, illegally detaining without legal representation, the Patriot Act and NSA wiretapping, CIA operating on American soil, loading the FDA with lobbyists from the very companies they are supposed to be policing?
The list goes on and on and on and on.
If you are too stupid to see that your country is NOT what it says it is, what we the people say we want it to be, and what every other country can see plainly from outside our little box, then don't get all pissy with someone who can see it.
Like I said, it's not worth the effort to save it for assholes and douche bags such as yourselves.
R.I.P. Amerika.

You took the words right outta my mouth.

Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Real reform would start with campaign finance reform, which is why we wont ever see real reform.

Reform (US Politics): Asking the corrupt to voluntarily limit their own power, influence, and profit.

Synonyms: Un-farking-likely.

Isn't that a rhetorical question?

Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Same as it ever was....Same as it ever was...

dudemanbro: Just give us a single-payer system and be done with it. Oh that's right, we can't because we're spending billions in Iraq. Silly me.

They have UHC in Iraq, paid for by US.

ODDwhun: You said rape twice.

stole my thunder, man!

Wow, a 310 word talking point article. Everything in that article has been said before. Yet she writes it like she came to some sudden realization. Some people are dense.

In debt up to our eyeballs, unfunded liabilities stretching past the horizon and it ain't enough for librul Farkers.

Gimme (tax-payer funded) healthcare!! It's my right!!

L82DPRT: In debt up to our eyeballs, unfunded liabilities stretching past the horizon and it ain't enough for librul Farkers.

I'm guessing you were all for the fraudulent war that cost trillions of dollars, and gave us nothing. People like you are all to happy to spend hundreds of billions because some middle eastern extremists say they want an american dead, yet if an american is actually being killed by a disease you won't raise a finger to help.

ghare: dudemanbro: Just give us a single-payer system and be done with it. Oh that's right, we can't because we're spending billions in Iraq. Silly me.

They have UHC in Iraq, paid for by US.

Iraqis need a socialist nanny state to stay in line. We don't.

L82DPRT: In debt up to our eyeballs, unfunded liabilities stretching past the horizon and it ain't enough for librul Farkers.

Gimme (tax-payer funded) healthcare!! It's my right!!

If you are concerned with the cost of health care, support socialized health care - it costs less and provides more service.

False dichotomies are false.

What good is universal-coverage if it collapses our house of cards, again? For real this time.

Yaay!! We all have insurance!! Wish we had jobs too.

/Disagree that single payer provides better AND cheaper results.

L82DPRT: Disagree that single payer provides better AND cheaper results.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the debate then.

Here's a good start (new window)

so the government runs health care.
the budget and deficit are wildly out of control.
the government looks for ways to reduce health care costs.
they tax the hell out of alcohol and tobacco.
they tax the hell out of sugar, candy and soft drinks.
they tax the hell out of fatty foods.
they tax the hell out of guns.
they tax the hell out of anything, real or imagined, that they can say is related to public health.

enjoy your free health care.

Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Depends, are we talking about

A) the Republican Plan which would do nothing to reign in health care costs or insurance company profits, but WOULD remove all meaningful regulation of their conduct AND raid the public coffers to help poor people pay the premiums?

Or
B) the democratic Plan which would mandate coverage levels, include must-carry provisions, and set up a self-financed, "best practices" health Plan to force down prices and increase competition among insurers?

Bank bailouts: good for America, or approved by Jesus?

L82DPRT: /Disagree that single payer provides better AND cheaper results.

If you honestly care about cost, quality and coverage of the US system compared with other 1st world socialized systems, your belief will change if you choose to educate yourself.

L82DPRT: What good is universal-coverage if it collapses our house of cards, again? For real this time.

Yaay!! We all have insurance!! Wish we had jobs too.

How much do you think businesses spend for insuring their workers that would turn around into the economy were they no longer required to provide insurance?

I'll make it easier to guess: http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Excerpt from link:

Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 131 percent. Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,515.4

The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums rose at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade. This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.

The average employer-sponsored premium for a family of four costs close to $13,400 a year, and the employee foots about 27 percent of this cost. Health insurance costs are the fastest growing expense for employers. Employer health insurance costs overtook profits in 2008, and the gap grows steadily.

Emposter: Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Real reform would start with campaign finance reform, which is why we wont ever see real reform.

Reform (US Politics): Asking the corrupt to voluntarily limit their own power, influence, and profit.

Synonyms: Un-farking-likely.

The problem is campaign finance reform fixes what we know is corrupt and broken

the corrupting influences in elections will either build in loopholes or will take things which aren't corrupting influences now and make them such.

more regulation will produce more failure

either its a completely government ran system or its completely open and transparent with HUGE and immediate penalties for violations

colon_pow: enjoy your free health care.

That's a strawman. No rational person expects it to be free, they expect it to be universal. We all know we need to pay for it somehow. We could also pay for it by repealing the Bush tax cuts and cutting defense spending. Unlike your examples, those would most likely be supported by the vast majority of Americans. But we don't live in a democracy so your examples are probably more likely.


//looks forward to enjoying guaranteed health care.

CanonicalNerd: colon_pow: enjoy your free health care.

That's a strawman. No rational person expects it to be free, they expect someone else to pay for it.

ftfy

//looks forward to enjoying guaranteed health care.

karasoth: Emposter: Bestbank Tiger: Both.

It would be nice if we ever see real reform but the Beltway idiots won't do anything except line the pockets of special interests.

Real reform would start with campaign finance reform, which is why we wont ever see real reform.

Reform (US Politics): Asking the corrupt to voluntarily limit their own power, influence, and profit.

Synonyms: Un-farking-likely.

The problem is campaign finance reform fixes what we know is corrupt and broken

the corrupting influences in elections will either build in loopholes or will take things which aren't corrupting influences now and make them such.

more regulation will produce more failure

either its a completely government ran system or its completely open and transparent with HUGE and immediate penalties for violations

1. Persons may only donate X dollars each to a candidate.
---Persons includes corporations. Corporations can't donate any more than you can.
---X should be set fairly low, so as to keep the rich from having a larger voice than the non-rich. Lets say a maximum of $5000
---For the purposes of this reform, PAC's and lobbying groups are also counted as people, and are limited to $5000. Reasonable precautions to prevent duplicate PACs should be taken.
2. Political Parties Shut the Fark Up
---There is no reasonable way to separate a Party's campaigning for itself and the effect it has on its candidate. There is also no logical reason that the party itself should be campaigning at all. Elections are for representatives, not parties (no matter what shiathole politics have turned elections into). Hence, parties don't get to make ads. They can have a website, and can give money to a candidate equal to exactly the amount the candidate has already raised from persons (see 1).
3. Third Party Groups
---Honestly, I'm not sure why they should be allowed to campaign at all, since most are just ways around the campaign finance laws and certainly the common person does not have an equal ability to make his/her voice heard. However, there are issues of censorship and I know people will biatch about it, so...Put a low ceiling on the amount they are allowed to spend (call it $1m each) and force them to clearly and explicitly state at the beginning and end of any ad the candidate they support...in giant letters.

Tada! It's basic, but the basic idea is simple. Give individuals a fair voice, take away the unequal power of the rich and powerful to make a disproportionate impact on the system of government that is supposed to represent us all. It's not a perfect plan, but I came up with it in 3 minutes as a response in a farking Fark thread.