Yes, because the economy can just turn on a dime and Obama should have fixed it by now. I mean he has had 9 months already!

jbeatty: Yes, because the economy can just turn on a dime and Obama should have fixed it by now. I mean he has had 9 months already!

You didn't hear? Obama bends time and space. His Presidency exists in a vacuum where no prior history has any effect on today's events. That he didn't fix everything all at once immediately is a sure sign he is a failure.

The ONLY group that seems to have expected puppies and rainbows when Obama was elected is conservatives, the very group that mocked everyone else for unrealistic expectations.

Next spring is when the ball will really start rolling.

President Barack Obama said the U.S. economy has pulled "back from the brink" and the government must now "get serious" about reducing debt and helping spur job growth.

point the first - we're nowhere NEAR 'back from the brink' yet. In fact, we're only just now getting close to the edge. Obama isn't fooling anyone with this statement. 115 bank failures so far this year and CIT just imploded. How many more banks will the Fed seize this friday? 3? 10? we don't know. But odds are that more banks will go under because we're not stable yet.

point the second - so long as corporations can squeeze a few more pennies out of switching to cheap overseas labor, there will be little to no job growth in this country. Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth. But corporations themselves don't care - they are loyal only to their bottom line, not to this country or it's workers.

I am amazed he didn't do the infrastructure rebuild first. would have flown through congress, created jobs, boosted economy, put "active" money in accounts, etc. Then in about a year or so later brought forth the health care reform on a winning run.

Ugh, hope none of those big dams in the mid-west with a "D-" rating don't kill a town, ouch.
/this is above scenario was why i voted for him. kinda bothered that it is ALL in limbo now.

I know what will help reduce debt: massive new government programs.

Weaver95: President Barack Obama said the U.S. economy has pulled "back from the brink" and the government must now "get serious" about reducing debt and helping spur job growth.

point the first - we're nowhere NEAR 'back from the brink' yet. In fact, we're only just now getting close to the edge. Obama isn't fooling anyone with this statement. 115 bank failures so far this year and CIT just imploded. How many more banks will the Fed seize this friday? 3? 10? we don't know. But odds are that more banks will go under because we're not stable yet.

point the second - so long as corporations can squeeze a few more pennies out of switching to cheap overseas labor, there will be little to no job growth in this country. Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth. But corporations themselves don't care - they are loyal only to their bottom line, not to this country or it's workers.

3.5% GDP growth thanks almost entirely to the stimulus and cash for clunkers.

what would have happened otherwise? 500 bank failures? total farking catastrophe? probably. it's amazing you people don't see that.

dholway: I know what will help reduce debt: massive new government programs tax cuts.


Six o' one...

Weaver95: 115 bank failures so far this year and CIT just imploded.

So cute. You mixed up Citibank and CIT the other day, and you still act like you know what you're talking about.

Weaver95: Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth.

The US labor force is highly competitive. We have the greatest value-added-per-worker-hour of anywhere in the world. Otherwise known as "Most Indian programmers are cheap for a reason".

Weaver95: But corporations themselves don't care - they are loyal only to their bottom line, not to this country or it's workers.

That part's perfectly true.

i'm going to post this again:

a train full of drunk republicans is careening down the tracks out of control with george w. bush at the helm. in one of the baggage cars, surrounded by bound-and-gagged democrats, barack obama manages to wriggle free from his ropes. immediately aware of the danger, he sprints through the train, heading towards the locomotive, passing catatonic, vomit-and-piss-stained republicans in the coaches. once in the cab, he pushes aside bush, who is slumped over the wheel, passed out drunk. with all his might, he pulls the brake lever. the sound of squealing brakes rouses the republicans from their drunken stupor, who upon becoming aware of the situation start biatching and moaning to anyone who will listen about how obama hasn't stopped the train immediately.

sound about right?

jbeatty: Yes, because the economy can just turn on a dime and Obama should have fixed it by now. I mean he has had 9 months already!

We could always break out the with and without stimulus jobs graph.

WaltzingMathilda: 3.5% GDP growth thanks almost entirely to the stimulus and cash for clunkers.

that's not growth. in fact, it's not even a mild swelling. all that bailout money did was delay the inevitable crash. we bought time, not fixed the flaws in our economy. It remains to be seen if that was a wise strategy or not.

we're going to top 10% unemployment. Even with the Fed cooking the books and ignoring just how bad our unemployment data really is, we're going to top 10%. that is a LOT of people not kicking payroll taxes back into the Fed. we're in serious trouble, and Obama is finally starting to realize just how bad things really are for us little guys.

The worst part is that I don't think there's anything Obama can do about it. he didn't cause the mess and he has no real way to fix the problem but he'll catch hell for it just the same.

Weaver95: that's not growth. in fact, it's not even a mild swelling.

not a growth or a swelling after 4 consecutive quarters of contraction? ok negative nancy, keep telling the world the sky is falling. you surely can't be bothered to concede a point.

Weaver95: point the first - we're nowhere NEAR 'back from the brink' yet. In fact, we're only just now getting close to the edge. Obama isn't fooling anyone with this statement. 115 bank failures so far this year and CIT just imploded. How many more banks will the Fed seize this friday? 3? 10? we don't know. But odds are that more banks will go under because we're not stable yet.

Depends on where you define the brink. By some accounts we were three hours away from a complete collapse of our financial system. That's about as close to the brink as you can get. We're still too close to the edge, but we're not quite in Wile E. Coyote range anymore.

WaltzingMathilda: Weaver95: that's not growth. in fact, it's not even a mild swelling.

not a growth or a swelling after 4 consecutive quarters of contraction? ok negative nancy, keep telling the world the sky is falling. you surely can't be bothered to concede a point.

I don't see that we've done anything to correct the issues that put us into our current position. If we really wanted to fix underlying weaknesses in the market, we SHOULD have forced most of the 'leadership' out of their comfy chairs on various boards of directors and corporate officer positions. But we didn't do that. In fact, we told wall street that it was ok to make bad bets and poor management decisions - they were 'too big to fail' and that the taxpayers would cover the debt. So instead of weeding out the weak and stupid, we rewarded them for being stupid and weak.

And you somehow think we're out of the woods?

"carrin' signs.... mostly sayin' hooray for our side"

"signs"
Buffalo Springfield

/old thread is old

________ is a trailing indicator.

We actually recovered back in January. Don't be deceived by those liars who say they're "unemployed" --- they're just trying to make the President look bad.

Yeah, I'm still waiting on my magic ponies. Goddamit, the conservatives told me that Obama was promising magic ponies! So clearly he should be responsible!

WHERE'S MY MAGIC PONY?!

Just keep spending more money of the people.

'The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money'. Margaret Thatcher>/a>

TwistedIvory: Yeah, I'm still waiting on my magic ponies. Goddamit, the conservatives told me that Obama was promising magic ponies! So clearly he should be responsible!

WHERE'S MY MAGIC PONY?!

you misread- he said "magic penis" and one will be coming for you shortly, don't worry.

Weaver95: WaltzingMathilda: Weaver95: that's not growth. in fact, it's not even a mild swelling.

not a growth or a swelling after 4 consecutive quarters of contraction? ok negative nancy, keep telling the world the sky is falling. you surely can't be bothered to concede a point.

I don't see that we've done anything to correct the issues that put us into our current position. If we really wanted to fix underlying weaknesses in the market, we SHOULD have forced most of the 'leadership' out of their comfy chairs on various boards of directors and corporate officer positions. But we didn't do that. In fact, we told wall street that it was ok to make bad bets and poor management decisions - they were 'too big to fail' and that the taxpayers would cover the debt. So instead of weeding out the weak and stupid, we rewarded them for being stupid and weak.

And you somehow think we're out of the woods?

i never said we were out of the woods. i said we had growth after 4 consecutive quarters of contraction and wondered what you thought would have happened otherwise. how is it that upon a transition in government, "buying time" as you call it during the most severe recession in 70 years isn't exactly the right strategy until they figure out how to fix it and prevent it from happening again?

Weaver95: CIT just imploded

Which was pretty predictable. You could see that coming, so the options were let it die, or save it. You're just happy you can jump and scream either way, and keep going on about how we're all going to die.

You're reminding me more and more of the guy walking around with a "The End is Near" sign.

AmStatic1: Just keep spending more money of the people.

'The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money'. Margaret Thatcher>/a>

It's the governments money. It says so on every bill. It's only backed by the full faith in and of the government.

/not in favor of this line of thought, but you have to fight nonsense with nonsense.

WaltzingMathilda: i never said we were out of the woods. i said we had growth after 4 consecutive quarters of contraction and wondered what you thought would have happened otherwise.

that's just it - I don't think we've actually had 'growth'. I think we've artificially propped up the marketplace. So long as the money keeps flowing, the illusion of stability remains...but we can't sustain that illusion for much longer. I think the plan (which was semi-secret) was to have a series of 'controlled crashes' and to ease us through a period of restructuring. Good idea, since a full on uncontrolled crash would have been worse. But I think the rot has spread further than anyone realized and that we're going to still have a bigger/uncontrolled crash later on down the road. I just don't know yet if our attempts to control the slide downward were a good idea or not.

Well, the numbers don't lie. We do have higher unemployment than Obama predicted. But he did predict Armageddon if we didn't pass all those stimulus bills immediately...they passed...and no Armageddon. So, I guess he either is very prescient or has a magic rock...maybe even the one that kept terrorists from attacking the US on US soil after 9/11.

I wonder where politicians find all these magic rocks.

GAT_00: Weaver95: CIT just imploded

Which was pretty predictable. You could see that coming, so the options were let it die, or save it. You're just happy you can jump and scream either way, and keep going on about how we're all going to die.

You're reminding me more and more of the guy walking around with a "The End is Near" sign.

I still don't understand why my candidate didn't do the infrastructure repair first. instead of taking up all of congress' time on one of the most dividing issues i can think of when the "limited time" they are there is not spent on discussing and re discussing the next course of action on the economy.

GAT_00: You're reminding me more and more of the guy walking around with a "The End is Near" sign.

I think his name is GaryPDX.

somebody is in bizarro world.

Dusk-You-n-Me: GAT_00: You're reminding me more and more of the guy walking around with a "The End is Near" sign.

I think his name is GaryPDX.

I thought he had a "The new President is Near" sign.

I Said: The ONLY group that seems to have expected puppies and rainbows when Obama was elected is conservatives, the very group that mocked everyone else for unrealistic expectations.



So they guessed wrong. Big deal. Just guess again.

newaddict: I still don't understand why my candidate didn't do the infrastructure repair first. instead of taking up all of congress' time on one of the most dividing issues i can think of when the "limited time" they are there is not spent on discussing and re discussing the next course of action on the economy.

I didn't vote for Obama and don't care for his policies but I would have been extremely pleased if he had responded to the economic crisis with an infrastructure repair bill.

/President, I am dissapoint.

Take the $787 billion stimulus passed in February.

There are roughly 155 million Americans in the labor market. Assume that full-time work is 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year, or 2000 hours per person.

$787,000,000,000/(2000*155,000,000) equals roughly $2.54 per hour per person.

To use the same amount of money to more effectively stimulate the economy, over the next year give everyone a $2.50 per hour raise (you can use the remaining 4 cents per person per hour for administration or something). Then drop the national minimum wage to $4.75 per hour over that same period (since you are adding $2.50 per hour on top of it).

Those with marginal productivity would gain skills and job experience, direct labor costs for newly hired employees would fall, the underground economy would be less attractive (since it doesn't have the subsidy), and the export market would improve. It would also help state revenues, since there would be fewer people unemployed, and those currently employed would have a higher hourly wage.

/Compared to the current stimulus, the main drawback for politicians is the lack of government pork for campaign contributors and voting groups.

mcsestretch: newaddict: I still don't understand why my candidate didn't do the infrastructure repair first. instead of taking up all of congress' time on one of the most dividing issues i can think of when the "limited time" they are there is not spent on discussing and re discussing the next course of action on the economy.

I didn't vote for Obama and don't care for his policies but I would have been extremely pleased if he had responded to the economic crisis with an infrastructure repair bill.

/President, I am dissapoint.

it's funny because in this thread^ people are bouncing off the walls in anger that the government is spending stimulus money to improve our electricity infrastructure.

Mordant: Dusk-You-n-Me: GAT_00: You're reminding me more and more of the guy walking around with a "The End is Near" sign.

I think his name is GaryPDX.

I thought he had a "The new President is Near" sign.

I don't know about the sign, but he knows all about "statisticals".

thomps: mcsestretch: newaddict: I still don't understand why my candidate didn't do the infrastructure repair first. instead of taking up all of congress' time on one of the most dividing issues i can think of when the "limited time" they are there is not spent on discussing and re discussing the next course of action on the economy.

I didn't vote for Obama and don't care for his policies but I would have been extremely pleased if he had responded to the economic crisis with an infrastructure repair bill.

/President, I am dissapoint.

it's funny because in this thread^ people are bouncing off the walls in anger that the government is spending stimulus money to improve our electricity infrastructure.

If there is one thing on this planet that needs upgrading, it's the electricity infrastructure.

/followed by roads
//enough jobs to keep Americans busy for decades

Weaver95: Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth.

Make us into serfs living in company barracks, shopping from company stores. Pay us serfs wages like they do in China, and you'll see us become competitive.

That's the only way we'll be able to compete with people who are able and willing to work for a tenth of what we work for.

mcsestretch: thomps: mcsestretch: newaddict: I still don't understand why my candidate didn't do the infrastructure repair first. instead of taking up all of congress' time on one of the most dividing issues i can think of when the "limited time" they are there is not spent on discussing and re discussing the next course of action on the economy.

I didn't vote for Obama and don't care for his policies but I would have been extremely pleased if he had responded to the economic crisis with an infrastructure repair bill.

/President, I am dissapoint.

it's funny because in this thread^ people are bouncing off the walls in anger that the government is spending stimulus money to improve our electricity infrastructure.

If there is one thing on this planet that needs upgrading, it's the electricity infrastructure.

/followed by roads
//enough jobs to keep Americans busy for decades

not to mention the new technologies and industries that would piggy-back off of those improvements. it's amazing to me that some people see those two spending targets as partisan issues.

dholway: So they guessed wrong. Big deal. Just guess again.

Because it's oh so easy to make predictions during an unprecedented economic downturn.

I really don't think conservatives should be so eager to get into a debate about the accuracy of a Presidents predictions.

Without the stimulus unemployment would be 30%!

The stimulus created or saved 10,000,000 jobs. Try to prove otherwise!

The only jobs Obama are creating are the ones in his administration that will be open in three years and two months.

SchlingFocker: Weaver95: Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth.

Make us into serfs living in company barracks, shopping from company stores. Pay us serfs wages like they do in China, and you'll see us become competitive.

That's the only way we'll be able to compete with people who are able and willing to work for a tenth of what we work for.

Yeah, I don't see any way out of it either. I'm just saying that the corporations are manipulating the situation to their advantage. Until we find some way of stopping them, jobs aren't coming back to this country.

I guess what really gets me about all this is how the Republican voters can be so pro-corporate. NONE of those guys sitting up in the board of director seats give a damn about this country OR about the rank and file. they make decisions based on the largest profit for themselves and nothing else. Most CEOs don't even care about their investors either. They only care about what THEY make, not their responsibility towards stake holders or even their own employees.

GAT_00: Weaver95: CIT just imploded

Which was pretty predictable. You could see that coming, so the options were let it die, or save it.

"let it die" meant then, as it does now, that CIT would be allowed to declare bankruptcy. "save it" meant giving it government billions to prevent bankruptcy. The government "saved" CIT by giving it $2.3 billion a few months ago. Now CIT is declaring bankruptcy, and the $2.3 billion is now gone. This was Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner's decision.

johnbc5: The only jobs Obama are creating are the ones in his administration that will be open in three years and two months.

When America finally sees the light and votes for Sarah Palin? Or supports all of those awesomely non-existent plans proposed by the GOP? Or forgets that it was a GOP Pres that pushed through the first bailout, the one with zero accountability?

Weaver95: point the second - so long as corporations can squeeze a few more pennies out of switching to cheap overseas labor, there will be little to no job growth in this country. Find a way to make the US labor force competitive again and you'll have your job growth. But corporations themselves don't care - they are loyal only to their bottom line, not to this country or it's workers.

THIS THIS AND MORE THIS

This was the second time the full board has met to brief the president on ways to create jobs and encourage economic growth. Obama formed the advisory panel in February

They're workin' hard on this one people, don't have time to chat.

GIS for "post bubble"

choice and consequence: They're workin' hard on this one people, don't have time to chat.

'Full board'. I would imagine he's had more than 2 meetings on the subject since February, sans full board.

choice and consequence: This was the second time the full board has met to brief the president on ways to create jobs and encourage economic growth. Obama formed the advisory panel in February

They're workin' hard on this one people, don't have time to chat.

the project i'm currently working on is one of the biggest our firm has right now, yet in the last 6 months, my full team has only met once to discuss it. should i assume that nothing is being done on this project because we haven't had weekly full-team meetings?