Ust?

I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

I can't afford my own corporate mercenary army either, but I would just as soon the government stayed out of that.

COUGH, COUGH: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion...

feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Congratulations. That has nothing to do with TFA.

DamnYankees: Ust?

Sounds like a code word. I bet we'll be invaded by the end of the week.

bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

My insurance costs way less than a tank, but is not nearly as cool? Is that what you were looking for?

bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

DamnYankees: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Congratulations. That has nothing to do with TFA.

Oh, I'm sorry is there a new rule at Fark?

feckingmorons: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

My insurance costs way less than a tank, but is not nearly as cool? Is that what you were looking for?

Not exactly... how do you determine which goods and services the government best provides versus those best provided by private markets?

Capitalist1: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

There are many who believe that access to health care is a human right. In fact, this includes nearly every developed country in the world.

Private markets? - we don't have any private markets anymore. We've been owned . . .

Capitalist1: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

So the Erie Canal was unconstitutional?

Capitalist1: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

Cool, please don't call my fire department when your house catches fire, or use my educational system for your children, or expect your money to be given back to you when your bank collapses, or collect social security, or use medicare, or drive on the roads, or buy any product or food that has been tested or certified safe by the government.

Of course, since your either an just ignorant or a hypocrite, your gonna do all that stuff but then biatch about it, instead of doing what you should do if you truly believe that junk you just spewed and pack your butt up and move to a country with no central government like Afghanistan.

Fototark: COUGH, COUGH: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion...

Over a decade, not a year. Need something for that cough?

Fototark: COUGH, COUGH: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion...

That's the point. They refer to bills like health care in terms of their 10-year cost. What would the political conversation be like if we had a big debate over whether we should be spending $6.8 trillion (over the next 10 years) for the Defense Department? And another $2.5 trillion or whatever on the wars?

Barney Sombrero Hussein's America, on full display.

But the military spending bill includes health care for the troops, right?

feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Then congratulations! Not only are you paying for the military to have an Abrams Tank but you're also paying for the military to have healthcare. You get jack.

Capitalist1: Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

Heh. Randians with no conception of the rational response to collective action dilemmas are so cute.

Capitalist1: Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles.

No. No it doesn't.

Here's why so much money is spent on the military: it protects the rich and their assets. The cannon fodder comes from the lower classes, almost for free.

What amazes me is how easy we all throw this $$$ around like it just came out of a piñata

feckingmorons: There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

And why should I be forced AT GUNPOINT to pay for something I DON'T CONSENT TO????

If national defense is SO IMPORTANT to you TAX AND SPEND LIBERALS why don't you START A BUSINESS?!?!?

\am I doing it right?

Can we please drop the "its not the government's role" for this discussion? It's really not relevant.

The point is that our politics is so screwed up that the military is sacrosanct. We've spent *months* wrangling over this health care thing, with tons of Congresspeople saying they will not vote for it because it costs too much, and because our deficit is too big. But none of them bat an eye at a bill which costs more than 5 times as much. No one even debates the thing. It's rotting, stinking hypocrisy.

If we're ever going to address the deficit, let alone the national debt, we're going to have to cut the military budget by half. How do you think we got a budget surplus in the 90's? Magic?

Smaller, harder, faster, stronger...

feckingmorons: There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

They should not waste our money on unnecessary military expenditures.

We don't need a new fleet of jets to take out the Taliban.

We won't be using a new fleet of jets if China or Russia decides to mix it up with us. Those wars will go nuclear in a heartbeat.

SchlingFocker: We won't be using a new fleet of jets if China or Russia decides to mix it up with us. Those wars will go nuclear in a heartbeat.

The Chinese and the Russians are both major trading partners. I expect that if they want to "mix it up with us" we'll have plenty of lead time to buy some jets.

SchlingFocker: They should not waste our money on unnecessary military expenditures.

The Air Force and the Navy just declared war on you.

Do you honestly expect me to believe that we could do without a few of these things?




Nice try, Benedict Arnold.

bronyaur1: feckingmorons: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

My insurance costs way less than a tank, but is not nearly as cool? Is that what you were looking for?

Not exactly... how do you determine which goods and services the government best provides versus those best provided by private markets?

Oh, somebody wrote it down. Read it as it is written and you have no problem. If you think you have to parse the words and add your own meaning you're mistaken.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

feckingmorons: Oh, somebody wrote it down. Read it as it is written and you have no problem. If you think you have to parse the words and add your own meaning you're mistaken.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Hey, what do you know? You're right.

bronyaur1: Capitalist1: bronyaur1: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Just curious... what are the criteria you suggest for making this distinction?

Easy. Government exists to take violence out of human interactions, and make the use of force subject to very strict principles. Governments do not have the right to commit acts of violence against anyone who has done nothing wrong. That means no social engineering, no government-run health care plans, no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

In terms you might be more familiar with: government exist to protect and enforce the principles of individual rights. That is all. End of list.

There are many who believe that access to health care is a human right. In fact, this includes nearly every developed country in the world.


Access to healthcare is a right. You have it.
Having someone (or everyone) else pay for your health care is not a right.

You have a right to eat lunch too, but you have to pay for that as well.

feckingmorons: Having someone (or everyone) else pay for your health care is not a right.

Is having someone else pay for my fire department a right?

Abagadro: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I'd like to see a case in Southeastern Reporter that cited the Preamble as being enforceable law.

ToxicMunkee: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Then congratulations! Not only are you paying for the military to have an Abrams Tank but you're also paying for the military to have healthcare. You get jack.

I also pay a little bit of the UPS guy's health care when I send a package. I get great benefit from the military, and some benefit from UPS so I am OK with both.

Do you suggest that nobody who works for the government get health insurance through their job?

DarthBrooks: I'd like to see a case in Southeastern Reporter that cited the Preamble as being enforceable law.

It's not. That wasn't really the point.

Abagadro: feckingmorons: Oh, somebody wrote it down. Read it as it is written and you have no problem. If you think you have to parse the words and add your own meaning you're mistaken.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Hey, what do you know? You're right.

Ah, but you are parsing the meaning and interpereting it to mean what you want it to mean. Giving healthcare to individuals is not general welfare. That argument is trite, and I tried to persuade farkers not to make it, but you did anyway.

You people just get silly when you argue for socialized medicine, so I'll leave you people to it.

feckingmorons: Ah, but you are parsing the meaning and interpereting it to mean what you want it to mean. Giving healthcare to individuals is not general welfare. That argument is trite, and I tried to persuade farkers not to make it, but you did anyway.

Actually, it is you who is parsing. "general welfare" is a pretty elastic concept, deliberately so.

feckingmorons: ToxicMunkee: feckingmorons: I'll pay for my own insurance. I can't afford my own M1A1 Abrams Tank.

There are some things the government should do, and some that they should not.

Then congratulations! Not only are you paying for the military to have an Abrams Tank but you're also paying for the military to have healthcare. You get jack.

I also pay a little bit of the UPS guy's health care when I send a package. I get great benefit from the military, and some benefit from UPS so I am OK with both.

Do you suggest that nobody who works for the government get health insurance through their job?

UPS isn't USPS.

NewportBarGuy: Do you honestly expect me to believe that we could do without a few of these things?

You're right.

I'm not sure what I was thinking. We need to go ahead and get those guys upgraded ASAP :)

bronyaur1: There are many who believe that access to health care is a human right. In fact, this includes nearly every developed country in the world.

We already have access to healthcare here in the US. The issue we have is cost. The uncomfortable reality is that health care is a scarce resource and there is not enough for everyone to receive top-notch care. No matter what system we choose people are going to be denied care, be it because of dollars, waiting lists, or shortages.

I've said it before, the system in the US has problems. We have to ask ourselves if the problem is too much government or not enough. Too much capitalism or not enough. Right now there is no capitalism in the system because the prices are all fixed, be it by the government or by insurance companies. There is no competition. Half of health care spending in the US is already done by the government and those systems hardly inspire confidence.

The prices of contact lenses, LASIC, and cosmetic surgery have been falling for the last decade at least. Why is this when all other medical procedures seem to be rising? Insurance and government are not involved in these areas and thus providers have to compete because people pay out of pocket.

Rights do not incur an expense or penalty upon another. I have a right to free speech, I do not have a right to force others to pay for the printing or broadcasting of that speech. I have a right to bear arms, but no right to force others to buy me guns and ammo. The "Right" to health care is a political perversion of the term. Why not a right to food, a right to able TV, and a right to a car? The vast majority of medical procedures are non-emergency where people have the time to shop around were there actual competition in the system.

I guaran-damn-tee I can find $90B, or hell if Fototark would prove that $1.2T number, 120B, of pointless, wasteful spending in that bill for one year. Gut anything left related to Star Wars. There's going to be another plane as expensive and worthless as the F-22 in development that can be cut, there always is. What's a carrier group cost, around $5-10B a year? I'm sure we can cut one without the world falling to Communism. Start shutting down international bases that are completely unnecessary, like Germany. Leave the hospital of course, but no reason for the troops. Decommission a few ships, some of the older LA subs, a couple frigates and cruisers.

Seriously, I could take out a third of the budget and the safety of America wouldn't drop at all. We need to stop being the damn world police.

Crosshair: We already have access to healthcare here in the US. The issue we have is cost.

Hint: cost is *part of* access.

DamnYankees: Hint: cost is *part of* access.

Shhhh....you don't want to confuse them with such complexities.

Abagadro: promote the general Welfare

feckingmorons: ... so I'll leave you people to it

You got your ass handed to you this time, feck.

Action Replay Nick: Barney Sombrero Hussein's America, on full display.

Sombrero? That's a new one. :P

SilentStrider: Action Replay Nick: Barney Sombrero Hussein's America, on full display.

Sombrero? That's a new one. :P

and how he got that from "barney frank" i'll never know.

Capitalist1: no proscriptive regulation of businesses, etc.

take your Randian ass and jump off a cliff, thanks.

Fototark: COUGH, COUGH: House health bill totals $1.2 trillion...

shiat for brains, that figure is for 10 years, this $680 billion is one single appropriation, not spread out over many years.

feckingmorons: You have it.

No, a great many people do not have it. Just ask the next homeless schizophrenic you see about their access to health care.