Here's an idea Whedon should try out, don't do business with Fox. How about doing that for a change?

Hell, after T3 and the one with Batman, I don't think there's any direction this franchise can go but up.

Whedon certainly has his problems ('character abuse', as they say -- he thinks it's not Art unless the characters suffer periodic agonies, whether the plot requires them or not), but c'mon. His hand would only improve 90% of Hollywood anything. Especially if he brings Ben Edlund along.


Here's an idea Whedon should try out

Forward that memo to Matt Groening and Seth MacFarlane, too. I mean, it should be obvious to everyone and anyone, but apparently some people are optimists.

Fox (as a TV network) was largely built on the backs of three shows: The Simpsons, Married . . . With Children, and COPS. All three were massive successes. And Fox kept trying to kill off The Simpsons and MWC, year after year.

Shostie: Hell, after T3 and the one with Batman, I don't think there's any direction this franchise can go but up.

Terminator vs. Batman!

$10,000 sounds about right. Although Whedon could turn the show into a twisty, character-driven series that people actually gave a shiat about, the Terminator idea is pretty played out.

Nathan Fillion *IS* The Pop Culture Terminator!

"Hasta la vista... KISS MAH GRITS!"

*KABOOOOOOOOOOM*

Shostie: Hell, after T3 and the one with Batman, I don't think there's any direction this franchise can go but up.

Terminator:Salvation would have been a much better movie with the last 5 minutes lopped off. Of course I say this about most movies I see lately.

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Nathan Fillion *IS* The Pop Culture Terminator!

"Hasta la vista... KISS MAH GRITS!"

*KABOOOOOOOOOOM*

Say what you will, but I still like Castle.

/this will be an interesting thread
//I can already tell

The English Major: Say what you will, but I still like Castle.

/this will be an interesting thread
//I can already tell


To be perfectly honest, I skipped over the show because I had a hunch that ABC would kill it off in five, six episodes, tops. It slipped out of my memory after a while.

I might have to give it a try now that it's on DVD.

Gwendolyn: Terminator:Salvation would have been a much better movie with the last 5 minutes lopped off. Of course I say this about most movies I see lately.

Not as bad as "The Matrix" where you have to lop off the last two movies to make it good.

Wooboy, this one is going to get flamey.

/loves Firefly and Castle, and likes Buffy and Angel to boot

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: The English Major: Say what you will, but I still like Castle.

/this will be an interesting thread
//I can already tell


To be perfectly honest, I skipped over the show because I had a hunch that ABC would kill it off in five, six episodes, tops. It slipped out of my memory after a while.

I might have to give it a try now that it's on DVD.

I like it. The detractors call it "Murder, He Wrote" but it's more than that. Fillion can definitely act.

Nathan Fillion as Terminator? Cool.

"I aim ta terminate ya. So you'd best make peace with your dear and fluffy lord."

Gwendolyn: Terminator:Salvation would have been a much better movie with the last 5 minutes lopped off. Of course I say this about most movies I see lately.

Salvation could have been a better movie if it adressed a few issues, correcting some of the fark-ups from T3.

What we basically have at the moment, is a series where you maybe could send someone back in time to change events sometimes, but not necessarily stop an event from occuring, only delay it, apart from the events that are prevented that is. And of course a few events that have to take place, in order for the past to have happened so the present could still be possible.

Also, John Connor has to find Kyle Reese in order to send him back in time in order for him to become his father, while simultaneously avoid getting killed by a T-850 model 101 that is specifically chosen due to Connor's close memories of a similar unit, except that Connor wont be killed by a T-850 model, because he has been warned by another T-850 model that was sent back from the future to prevent him from being killed by a T-X unit in the past while simultaneously warning him of a successful assassination in the future. (Of course, unless the encounter in "Salvation" was meant to be the event foretold in T3. Which was quite redundant because SkyNet also sent a T-X unit...) Except, when it comes to Kyle Reese, John Connor could pretty much have sat on his ass and waited for Kyle Reese to show up, because the existence of Connor proves that Reese shows up at some point, because Reese is Connor's father, because John sent him back in time to protect his mother and fark her at the same time (which, by the way, should cause a few issues that would have Siegmund Freud say "eeenteeereeesting" in the tone psychiatrists use to indicate that things just got expensive), although there is a distinct possibility that if Connor didn't save Reese in order to send him back in time to fark his mother, he might maybe have faded out of existence and thus ensuring that he never existed in the first place by not existing in the first place by recursion.


Basically, the next terminator movie needs to start with an explanation of how time actually farking works, which has to be only slightly more complex than as if Stephen Hawkins and Terry Pratchett got high together, in order to sort out how the hell this franchise works anyways.

AdolfOliverPanties: Nathan Fillion as Terminator? Cool.

"I aim ta terminate ya. So you'd best make peace with your dear and fluffy lord."

THAT is precisely what I'm talkin' about.


"You want me to self-terminate?"

"YEAH!"

"Well... I can't. :-/"


The English Major: I like it. The detractors call it "Murder, He Wrote" but it's more than that. Fillion can definitely act.

Duly and truly noted and quoted.

Your judgments seem to be on the money, so I'll give it a shot - thanks!

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: Nathan Fillion *IS* The Pop Culture Terminator!

"Hasta la vista... KISS MAH GRITS!"

*KABOOOOOOOOOOM*

The Hammer is his penis.

Cornwell: in the tone psychiatrists use to indicate that things just got expensive

ha-ha.

Continuity aside, I liked T3. I thought the ending was a bit... redeeming, actually. I still need to see Salvation. As soon as it's both free and convenient, it's done!

Tyler Perry is the ans...........

Wow......my fingers won't even allow me to continue writing that shiat.

I RTFA, and personally I think Terminator of the Rings could be, COULD be, the perfect movie.

/Music by Wagner, of course.

Loneman1: Tyler Perry is the ans...........

Wow......my fingers won't even allow me to continue writing that shiat.

Tyler Perry is the modern-day equivalent of blaxploitation. Only very, very dumb, very stereotypical people like Tyler Perry.

Cornwell: Basically, the next terminator movie needs to start with an explanation of how time actually farking works, which has to be only slightly more complex than as if Stephen Hawkins and Terry Pratchett got high together, in order to sort out how the hell this franchise works anyways.

Actually, we shouldn't call this a franchise because that's the exactly the problem: the first movie had a few good moments and the uncut version was a mindfark that revealed that Connor's interference with the past is what brought about Skynet's existence: by sending Reese, he allows the Terminator sent to be destroyed and its remains to be captured by Cyberdyne who reverse engineers it and creates Skynet.

The second resolves this. There is no need for another movie. The storyline is resolved. Yes, we can go on and on about how the battle continues, but there's nothing more to do. Salvation showed that there isn't much of a story when you're fighting the giant farking robots anyway. T3 was pathetic. And the show just retread the same old thing anyway, trying to turn the first two movies into a show that would have just turned into a Fugitive type chase show.

The premise is dead. You can keep beating the dead horse, but it's been about twenty years since Judgment Day and there's no real reason to revisit a badly-made franchise that ended every production it had its name attached to this year. Put it down, let it die, think of something else. And as for Whedon, the only thing he would do is recreate the TV show and add more psuedo-feminist whining and 'struggle' that anybody with the complete run of X-Men circa 1993 could recreate.

Not everything can be a franchise, especially something not as one-note as a Terminator movie could be.

For this, Joss is forgiven all of Dollhouse.

Fark you! I like Dollhouse. I'm sorry it is too dark, intellectually and morally challenging for you to follow. It does need a better lead though.

Steve Zodiac: Music by Wagner, of course.

LD approves.

Cornwell:
*BLOCK OF TEXT*

Basically everything you wrote can be summed up as: Time travel is awful, especially when left in the hands of Hollywood writers.

There has been exactly one movie that dealt with time travel properly, and that was Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

GraysonAC: Wooboy, this one is going to get flamey.

/loves Firefly and Castle, and likes Buffy and Angel to boot

Didn't we just do this headline bait last week, will it really work again?

\She'd never fall for a centuries-old guy with a dark past who may or may not be evil.

bberg: Cornwell:
*BLOCK OF TEXT*

Basically everything you wrote can be summed up as: Time travel is awful, especially when left in the hands of Hollywood writers.

There has been exactly one movie that dealt with time travel properly, and that was Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

Bogus.

Guntram Shatterhand: Cornwell: Basically, the next terminator movie needs to start with an explanation of how time actually farking works, which has to be only slightly more complex than as if Stephen Hawkins and Terry Pratchett got high together, in order to sort out how the hell this franchise works anyways.

Actually, we shouldn't call this a franchise because that's the exactly the problem: the first movie had a few good moments and the uncut version was a mindfark that revealed that Connor's interference with the past is what brought about Skynet's existence: by sending Reese, he allows the Terminator sent to be destroyed and its remains to be captured by Cyberdyne who reverse engineers it and creates Skynet.

The second resolves this. There is no need for another movie. The storyline is resolved. Yes, we can go on and on about how the battle continues, but there's nothing more to do. Salvation showed that there isn't much of a story when you're fighting the giant farking robots anyway. T3 was pathetic. And the show just retread the same old thing anyway, trying to turn the first two movies into a show that would have just turned into a Fugitive type chase show.

The premise is dead. You can keep beating the dead horse, but it's been about twenty years since Judgment Day and there's no real reason to revisit a badly-made franchise that ended every production it had its name attached to this year. Put it down, let it die, think of something else. And as for Whedon, the only thing he would do is recreate the TV show and add more psuedo-feminist whining and 'struggle' that anybody with the complete run of X-Men circa 1993 could recreate.

Not everything can be a franchise, especially something not as one-note as a Terminator movie could be.

Terminator could be a franchise just not one set in the happy fun land of California. It really needed to pick up where T3 left off with John Conner leading the resistance after a nuclear apocolypse. Yeah we know how it ends, but it could have been one hell of a ride getting there.

Crosshair: Gwendolyn: Terminator:Salvation would have been a much better movie with the last 5 minutes lopped off. Of course I say this about most movies I see lately.

Not as bad as "The Matrix" where you have to lop off the last two movies to make it good.

I actually really enjoyed the second movie when I watched it in the theater, and when I saw it again later. Only after watching the utter abomination that followed it did I begin to dislike Reloaded.

As it stands, if they had just dropped the whole Neo in a coma thing, it could have set up something epic. My whole thought going into the third movie was that Smith had now taken a human body and could therefore start taking over the remaining people in the real world.

Of course, they instead went for a CG crap-fest and a Dragon Ball Z fight in the rain.

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: The English Major: Say what you will, but I still like Castle.

/this will be an interesting thread
//I can already tell


To be perfectly honest, I skipped over the show because I had a hunch that ABC would kill it off in five, six episodes, tops. It slipped out of my memory after a while.

I might have to give it a try now that it's on DVD.

I am a fan of the series but I would say.. .try obtaining the first few via other means before you buy.

Slaves2Darkness: I like Dollhouse.

Yeah, me too. It's fun. Disco Victor made me laugh.

Anarchangel: Only after watching the utter abomination that followed it did I begin to dislike Reloaded.

That's the main problem with the Matrix trilogy IMO - the fact that most of the people who really liked the movie came up with their own mythos, especially after seeing the events of Reloaded, and their ending was better than what we got in Revolutions, i.e. the bullshiat explanation that "The One can affect the outer world because he can" to explain why he can destroy the machines in the real world

But my biggest problem with the trilogy is that, at the end of the first movie Neo could stop bullets, move faster than an Agent, and completely defy the laws of the Matrix by rewriting Agent Smith and blowing the crap out of him. So what happens at the start of Reloaded? He's back to kung-fu fighting Agents instead of willing them out of existence. Oh, and the Agents, who were feared as nigh-unstoppable in the first movie, are now being fought by Trinity, Morpheus, hell I think the Keymaker fought them for a few rounds.

The first Matrix was a full, complete movie detailing the Hero's Journey. The other two were shiat.

Anarchangel: I actually really enjoyed the second movie when I watched it in the theater, and when I saw it again later. Only after watching the utter abomination that followed it did I begin to dislike Reloaded.

Same here.

Reloaded on its own was an alright movie. They could have done a lot more than say "ZOMG NEO IZ JEEZUS!!!" at the end of Revolutions.

I looked at the Matrix from a CS perspective and tried to imagine the systems they were talking about. If I made allowances for them being able to talk to computers with their brains, as the movie is premised on it, I have one issue. Neo shouldn't have been able to stop the squiddies in real life and go into the matrix. IMO everything else works and I think it's absolutely spectacular.

Are people still doing the whole "We hate the Joss Whedon fans for their zealot-like devotion to him and his works so every time his name is mentioned we're going to put him down just to rile them up" thing? Cuz I gotta tell ya, folks, that routine's getting really old.

Whedon's no god, let me assure you. The man has his quirks when it comes to storytelling; there are no doubts about that. But I have to say, the stories he tells...pretty frakking entertaining.

bberg: The first Matrix was a full, complete movie detailing the Hero's Journey. The other two were shiat.

Bingo.

Loved the first movie, thought it worked fine as a standalone film.

Hated the second.

Didn't even bother with the third, but I've... *heard* things.


Clarence Potter: I am a fan of the series but I would say.. .try obtaining the first few via other means before you buy.

Gotcha on that, then.

Thanks for the head's-up!

The Icelander: They could have done a lot more than say "ZOMG NEO IZ JEEZUS!!!" at the end of Revolutions.

The only bit of Revolutions I remember fondly is when Trinity and Neo went above the clouds and saw blue sky and the sun.

Have any of you Matrix fans, sequel no fans, watched the animatrix? What did you think of that?

Uchiha_Cycliste: Have any of you Matrix fans, sequel no fans, watched the animatrix? What did you think of that?

That I did like, but I do have a fondness for SciFi anthologies and short stories in general. I did like learning how they got from here to there.

Clarence Potter: Uchiha_Cycliste: Have any of you Matrix fans, sequel no fans, watched the animatrix? What did you think of that?

That I did like, but I do have a fondness for SciFi anthologies and short stories in general. I did like learning how they got from here to there.

Can you illustrate what you disliked about the sequels?
\curious not combative

Yes, we don't want him undoing McG's hard work.

/Good lord, subby.

Flying Jester: Yes, we don't want him undoing McG's hard work.

/Good lord, subby.

I don't think McG is the culprit. It's more an issue of the studio letting Christian Bale do whatever he wanted with the script once they brought him aboard. McG is no James Cameron, obviously, but I'm guessing he'll be the first to tell you he's not happy with the way that movie turned out.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Can you illustrate what you disliked about the sequels?
\curious not combative

"Our only weapon against the machines is the EMP"

...

"Oh, and guns. Guns work too."

IgG4: Here's an idea Whedon should try out, don't do business with Fox. How about doing that for a change?

Wasn't Whedon's choice. Fox's deal is specifically with Eliza Dushku. She's the one who went to Joss.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Clarence Potter: Uchiha_Cycliste: Have any of you Matrix fans, sequel no fans, watched the animatrix? What did you think of that?

That I did like, but I do have a fondness for SciFi anthologies and short stories in general. I did like learning how they got from here to there.

Can you illustrate what you disliked about the sequels?
\curious not combative

Well it has been quite some time since I saw them, so this may seem more impressionistic than not. The 2nd one seemed like they tried to outmatch the manic energy of the first and seemed to substitute catch as catch can plot for extending the overall story arc. While I did not hate the 2nd one, it did not leave that much of an impression.

#3 was just... I honestly cannot remember that much from it save the scene I mentioned above where Trinity saw the sun (I am a sucker for stuff like that), and that Boyd from Dollhouse gave a quite rousing Alamo-type speech. When it ended I could not really remember much of the story, or how it fit into the overall franchise.

Wonderful eye candy, though.

quizkid8279: McG is no James Cameron, obviously

He's reluctant to steal others' ideas and pass them as his own?
No foot fetish?

Clarence Potter: The only bit of Revolutions I remember fondly is when Trinity and Neo went above the clouds and saw blue sky and the sun.

The best part of that was that she was blinded, so she never got to see the sunshine.

The Icelander: The best part of that was that she was blinded, so she never got to see the sunshine.

I thought that was Neo?

F42: quizkid8279: McG is no James Cameron, obviously

He's reluctant to steal others' ideas and pass them as his own?
No foot fetish?

Well, he might have the foot fetish, but "The O.C." suggests he has a thing for bushy eyebrows.

The Icelander: Clarence Potter: The only bit of Revolutions I remember fondly is when Trinity and Neo went above the clouds and saw blue sky and the sun.

The best part of that was that she was blinded, so she never got to see the sunshine.

Clarence Potter: Uchiha_Cycliste: Clarence Potter: Uchiha_Cycliste: Have any of you Matrix fans, sequel no fans, watched the animatrix? What did you think of that?

That I did like, but I do have a fondness for SciFi anthologies and short stories in general. I did like learning how they got from here to there.

Can you illustrate what you disliked about the sequels?
\curious not combative

Well it has been quite some time since I saw them, so this may seem more impressionistic than not. The 2nd one seemed like they tried to outmatch the manic energy of the first and seemed to substitute catch as catch can plot for extending the overall story arc. While I did not hate the 2nd one, it did not leave that much of an impression.

#3 was just... I honestly cannot remember that much from it save the scene I mentioned above where Trinity saw the sun (I am a sucker for stuff like that), and that Boyd from Dollhouse gave a quite rousing Alamo-type speech. When it ended I could not really remember much of the story, or how it fit into the overall franchise.

Wonderful eye candy, though.

I see, you are judging them as cinema... that's not fair ;).
Makes sense though.

The Icelander: Clarence Potter: The only bit of Revolutions I remember fondly is when Trinity and Neo went above the clouds and saw blue sky and the sun.

The best part of that was that she was blinded, so she never got to see the sunshine.

I especially liked that they were flying in a hovercraft.