Not sure if this deserves hero tag, Cap One is just trying to lock people in so they can continue to get over limit fees. Anyone stupid enough to fall for this deserves to pay fees anyway.

The smarter thing to do is never get to the point where your credit/debit limits could ever be declined, but then that would make too much sense huh?

ac982000: The smarter thing to do is never get to the point where your credit/debit limits could ever be declined, but then that would make too much sense huh?

WaMu didn't even let that happen. They accidentally triple-posted a bunch of purchases to my card. After about the fifth duplicate post, I started generating overdraft fees of $39 each -- for their mistake. There were 6 overdrafts, so that's $234 in bogus fees. There's also a daily "assessment fee" of $39 for having an overdrafted card, so that was another few hundred bucks. All in all I "owed" just shy of a grand for their mistake.

The conversation of me complaining went like this:

Me: But this was your mistake.
WaMu: Sir I understand but your card is over the limit.
Me: But it's over the limit because of your mistake, not my usage.
WaMu: Sir your card is over the limit.
Me: My purchases came nowhere near my limit. Your repeated mistakes caused this.
WaMu: But sir your card is over the limit.

Three certified letters later they still hadn't fixed it. I filed suit at the local District Justice and a few days after being served they "helpfully" credited my account for the fees. Then they had the audacity to not only close my account, but list it on my credit report as "closed by credit grantor".

So banks can suck it. They had a chance to play fair. If they don't want to, they can feel the pain of a government beatdown.

Seems to me they should be prevented from even verbally offering this as a "sales pitch" - stick it in that 8 point font on page 97 of that book they send out when you get a new account about how you can "opt in" to screweing yourself over - that way anyone bitten in the ass by this can clearly be labled a dumb ass instead of someone who said "uh-huh" at the wrong time during a phone call.

I say. I don't need any farking Nanny state to tell me when to say "Uh no" to a bad deal. Anybody who makes a bad deal gets what they bargained for. Hydrogen is not the most plentiful element in the universe, it's stupidity. And I am unwilling, yea dead opposed to giving my hard-earned money to keep stupid people "safe."

floor9: So banks can suck it. They had a chance to play fair. If they don't want to, they can feel the pain of a government beatdown.

Wow, that sucks, but not the first I have heard of such things. Got to love the simple minded receptionist on the other end that can only respond with, "but you were over your limit" Guess its no shock that bank collapsed.

ac982000: Guess its no shock that bank collapsed.

I take great pleasure in this fact. Fark you, WaMu.

If only there was some way to deny charges when there's not adequate funds to cover said charges.

ac982000: The smarter thing to do is never get a Cap One card.

/FTFY

CPT Ethanolic: If only there was some way to deny charges when there's not adequate funds to cover said charges.

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention that - I asked why they even allowed the charges in the first place, and I swear I am not making this up, her response was:

"Sir, do you know how many customers we have? There's no way we can possibly keep track of all the money at one time."

Apparently not.

Expect to see this same story with debit cards soon. When all of those broke college kids and poor folk can't overdraft a card 7 times for a total of $11.50 in purchases and $245 in overdraft fees, the banks' bottom lines are gonna start hurting.

Also, when they can't play 'a hold is on your account until the merchant processes the transaction' games to assist in said overdrafts, they're also going to have a problem.

whistleridge: Expect to see this same story with debit cards soon. When all of those broke college kids and poor folk can't overdraft a card 7 times for a total of $11.50 in purchases and $245 in overdraft fees, the banks' bottom lines are gonna start hurting.

Also, when they can't play 'a hold is on your account until the merchant processes the transaction' games to assist in said overdrafts, they're also going to have a problem.

Captive customers are very lucrative. Nearly three-quarters of banks' total service charges of $34.3 billion in 2008 came from overdraft or NSF (not sufficient funds) fees.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-02/how-big-banks-fleece- y ou/?cid=hp:mainpromo3

All I can say at this point is I'm glad I paid my Cap One card off.

floor9: "Sir, do you know how many customers we have? There's no way we can possibly keep track of all the money at one time."

My response would have been, "How do you know that I even owe you money now?" If there is a system for approval of charges then it can also be used for denials.

floor9: ac982000: The smarter thing to do is never get to the point where your credit/debit limits could ever be declined, but then that would make too much sense huh?

WaMu didn't even let that happen. They accidentally triple-posted a bunch of purchases to my card. After about the fifth duplicate post, I started generating overdraft fees of $39 each -- for their mistake. There were 6 overdrafts, so that's $234 in bogus fees. There's also a daily "assessment fee" of $39 for having an overdrafted card, so that was another few hundred bucks. All in all I "owed" just shy of a grand for their mistake.

The conversation of me complaining went like this:

Me: But this was your mistake.
WaMu: Sir I understand but your card is over the limit.
Me: But it's over the limit because of your mistake, not my usage.
WaMu: Sir your card is over the limit.
Me: My purchases came nowhere near my limit. Your repeated mistakes caused this.
WaMu: But sir your card is over the limit.

Three certified letters later they still hadn't fixed it. I filed suit at the local District Justice and a few days after being served they "helpfully" credited my account for the fees. Then they had the audacity to not only close my account, but list it on my credit report as "closed by credit grantor".

So banks can suck it. They had a chance to play fair. If they don't want to, they can feel the pain of a government beatdown.

I appreciate your problem there - that truly sucks - but I'm going to have to say that fropm here it sounds like some of the blame lies with you. Bear with me.

Customer service is a simple industry manned by simple folks who live by only 2 credos: the customer is always right, and never ever give back any money you don't have to. I know, because for 9 hellish months in grad school I had to work for one of those places.

Common caller mistakes: getting mad, not being pleasant, not understanding that the person on the other end HAS to say certain things - they're either obligated by law, or they know all of their calls are being recorded and monitored and they could lose their jobs for even a moment's deviation from the script. When you call, be pleasant. Use their name. Thank them for their time. It doesn't matter how mad you are, being nasty with the person on the other end of the line will NEVER help. Just briefly explain your problem, and ask them nicely if they can help. Usually, they WANT to help you - their pay is tied to their ability to demonstrably resolve calls favorably. If they can't (or won't) help, ask to speak with someone who can (their boss). Keep doing this until you speak with someone who solves your problem.

Make sure you get the names and direct lines or ID numbers of everyone you speak to. As a last resort - when they won't pass you on or resolve your problem, ask for the number to the legal department.

I'm not saying these are fail-safe procedures, and maybe you used them all, but I do know I've *never* had to get nasty with a bank to get fees that weren't my fault reversed, and I've only rarely had to get nasty to get fees that WERE my fault reversed. I'm not saying you're to blame - clearly, WaMu got what it had coming to it - but typically customer service 'disasters' like yours are at least partly a product of the customer not using the system properly.

/sorry if you did all those things...and yes, I know, you shouldn't HAVE to do them in the first place
//that sounds really really irritating either way

floor9: but list it on my credit report as "closed by credit grantor".

If you have the evidence, you can actually sue them for slander since that action on their part has damaged your reputation and caused you financial harm. Like the higher interest rates you'll qualify for with that on your record. Lawyer up.

Diogenes: All I can say at this point is I'm glad I paid my Cap One card off.

Same here -- after some hard labor mine is riding at zero, but I still get paranoid and check it online every two weeks or so to make sure I didn't get a sudden "$79 Zero Balance Convenience Fee" and a "$69 No Need to Send a Statement Charge" or a "$49 Because Just FARK YOU Assessment."

Don't want to cancel it and dent the credit score. I think I'll use it about once every two months to buy gas or something and pay it off immediately.

Wish I could say my Chase card was empty.

And this "Oh, I can save some money?" pseudo-offer from Cap One is pure ass. An ex of mine fell for the "Limited Tort Option" to save a few bucks on her car insurance, then got slammed by a drunk woman who blew a red light (and a .17) and ended up financially hosed. When a company offers you a "great deal" be sure to read the fine print and keep your ass-cheeks clenched.

My limited knowledge of contract law is making me think this whole scheme is all sorts of illegal, but I want to ask somebody who has more legal background to verify it.

From what I understand, you cannot make a legal contract that involves breaking the law -- e.g., the hitman can't sue the mob boss for not paying up after committing the murder, claiming they had a verbal contract for services. Therefore, two private entities (the CC company and the cardholder) cannot make a verbal or written agreement to ignore the protections provided by federal law. Am I right about that, or is there some loophole here?

Donnchadha: My limited knowledge of contract law is making me think this whole scheme is all sorts of illegal, but I want to ask somebody who has more legal background to verify it.

From what I understand, you cannot make a legal contract that involves breaking the law -- e.g., the hitman can't sue the mob boss for not paying up after committing the murder, claiming they had a verbal contract for services. Therefore, two private entities (the CC company and the cardholder) cannot make a verbal or written agreement to ignore the protections provided by federal law. Am I right about that, or is there some loophole here?

You can waive rights though. Sort of like when you waive yours rights to plead the 5th for a police interrogation, or when you waive certain rights to a bailbondsman in order to get out of jail.

damageddude: ac982000: The smarter thing to do is never get a Cap One card.

/FTFY

What's in your wallet?

whistleridge: I appreciate your problem there - that truly sucks - but I'm going to have to say that fropm here it sounds like some of the blame lies with you. Bear with me.

Oh bullshiat. The bank screwed up, they should reverse the charges and put his account right. End of story.

If you're stupid enough to take this deal you deserve to get farked hard by Capital One and everybody else.

Gamer Grrrl: whistleridge: I appreciate your problem there - that truly sucks - but I'm going to have to say that fropm here it sounds like some of the blame lies with you. Bear with me.

Oh bullshiat. The bank screwed up, they should reverse the charges and put his account right. End of story.

I agree. But when you're dealing with an incompetent organization - as WaMu was - you have to make sure they *know* about the error. If they see no error, why would they reverse the charges?

Sure, it would be nice if you didn't have to do that, but he did. And it sure sounds like he didn't get the message through to someone who could do something about it.

whistleridge: Sure, it would be nice if you didn't have to do that, but he did. And it sure sounds like he didn't get the message through to someone who could do something about it.

You appear to be saying that the blame rests with him because the blame should rest with WaMu, but they're too incompetent to actually do anything, so we can't blame them.

That doesn't make much sense. WaMu is supposed to get this right. It's what they do.

Alacritous: If you have the evidence, you can actually sue them for slander since that action on their part has damaged your reputation and caused you financial harm.

And probably for violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act as well. Unfortunately, WaMu is no more.

Capital One can suck my big toe.