A tax by any other name still smells the same.

i feel so bad for rich people. it's so hard to be them with all these pesky peasants around.

All the independently wealthy Fark Independents™ are going to be hit hardest.

I've got your wealth redistribution right here.

I am more than willing to pay the extra tax if I can get $1 million a year, I won't even biatch about it.

Let me get this straight....

Wealthy people create jobs.

Taxing the wealthy to cover health care will reduce the number of jobs they can create. Ohnoes!

But wait.....this means that health insurance isn't something they need to pay for through payroll when they hire folks. Bottom line stays near the same. Yay!

And the taxes stay a flat percentage of your profits no matter how many people you employ, so maybe you can hire more workers because it won't increase your overall health insurance costs unless profits are going up, and then by a predictable amount? Maybe this isn't so bad after all!

And what's that you say? Health costs are likely to be lower because the government program won't be profit-taking or paying for advertising? Even better!

And no more situations where one of the workers falls sick with something really nasty and they come close to maxing out their insurance benefit and the insurance company raises rates on the employer for _everyone_ to recoup the loss and apply pressure to get rid of the worker in question so they can cancel the policy on them?

The problem isn't the tax exactly - it is that it is not indexed to inflation. So we will end up with a situation similar to the AMT we have now - a tax which is intended to hit only a small percentage of people gradually hits more and more as inflation pushes wages closer to the point at which the tax takes effect. Not that I'm a huge fan of large tax increases, but this particular problem is a bigger one than the tax itself.

misplaced apostrophes make baby jesus cry.

EatHam: The problem isn't the tax exactly - it is that it is not indexed to inflation. So we will end up with a situation similar to the AMT we have now - a tax which is intended to hit only a small percentage of people gradually hits more and more as inflation pushes wages closer to the point at which the tax takes effect. Not that I'm a huge fan of large tax increases, but this particular problem is a bigger one than the tax itself.

This is similar to issues that I have with all the healthcare proposals. This idea that if you make $250k/year you're somehow "rich" is just stupid. I'm all for raising taxes on the "rich", but by rich I'm talking $1million/year and up. $250k/year is just not that much money after taxes.

Whoa man, those poor, down trodden rich people. When, oh when, will they get a government that passes policies in THEIR favor?

Ahhh yes...a tax on the 'rich' that will have no effect whatsoever on the 'not so rich'.

Dancin_In_Anson: Ahhh yes...a tax on the 'rich' that will have no effect whatsoever on the 'not so rich'.

Surely the rich will then have less to trickle down on everyone else, leaving us destitute as a result of their lack of charity.

CPT Ethanolic: $250k/year is just not that much money after taxes.

seriously. that 0.9% of the population might might as well be on welfare.

CPT Ethanolic: This is similar to issues that I have with all the healthcare proposals. This idea that if you make $250k/year you're somehow "rich" is just stupid. I'm all for raising taxes on the "rich", but by rich I'm talking $1million/year and up. $250k/year is just not that much money after taxes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes, $250,000 a year is in fact rich. That's over $20,000 each month.

If that's not rich, then I'd like to be "not rich" too, because wow what a tough life.

Those poor rich people.

That's the problem with this country. Too many idiots refuse to tax the rich, no matter how much it will help them, because they are deluded enough to believe that one day they will be rich.

Dancin_In_Anson: Ahhh yes...a tax on the 'rich' that will have no effect whatsoever on the 'not so rich'.

...except help ensure they no longer are being bankrupted by medical expenses, reduce the cost of employment so more jobs are possibly created, allow them to move jobs without fear of losing their health insurance, and improve their general health by making sure they receive decent preventative care, you mean?

What this website really needs is a new meme poster that can just be inserted right at the top of these threads. I'm thinking about something along the lines of that "omg sharp knees I would not hit that" image, with the hapless nerd's face picture attached to his post, except that this time it would be some pimply-faced high school kid in a McDonald's uniform or something like that peering out from beneath his "XXX dollars isn't that high of a salary I don't think that's rich at all" comment.

Gamer Grrrl: CPT Ethanolic: This is similar to issues that I have with all the healthcare proposals. This idea that if you make $250k/year you're somehow "rich" is just stupid. I'm all for raising taxes on the "rich", but by rich I'm talking $1million/year and up. $250k/year is just not that much money after taxes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that yes, $250,000 a year is in fact rich. That's over $20,000 each month.

If that's not rich, then I'd like to be "not rich" too, because wow what a tough life.

It is a comfortable salary, but not a fabulously wealthy one.

horse-pheathers: Dancin_In_Anson: Ahhh yes...a tax on the 'rich' that will have no effect whatsoever on the 'not so rich'.

...except help ensure they no longer are being bankrupted by medical expenses, reduce the cost of employment so more jobs are possibly created, allow them to move jobs without fear of losing their health insurance, and improve their general health by making sure they receive decent preventative care, you mean?

No no no. If we tax the rich, say increase the top bracket by 3% (those making 373k will now be taxed at 38% instead of 35%) and use the added revenue to pay for health care for others, those others will not go bankrupt due to medical bills and therefore remain productive members of society (as everyone knows those making less put a larger percentage of their income into the economy and money moving is the driving force behind our economy).

That all sounds well and good to those of us with even the narrowest concept of what the f*ck we're discussing, but think of that poor, poor, wealthy fellow who went from an after federal tax amount of 242k to 231k. This person is out 11k. That could ruin him if he's terrible with money (which of course he isn't, because as we all know every wealthy person earned their wealth by working harder and being smarter than the rest of us) and it's 11k less that he has to pay his employees (because as we all know everyone running a business pays their employees out of a sense of charity, not because having employees is actually profitable if you know what the f*ck you're doing).

So in summation: any tax increase on the rich, for any reason, is basically raping the poor. The end.

EvilEgg: It is a comfortable salary, but not a fabulously wealthy one.

This is semantics.

But unlike other income tax rates, the new tax would not be indexed for inflation. As incomes rise over time because of inflation, more families - and more small business owners - would be hit by the tax.

If you vote for that, or if you support that plan, then you are an idiot. No, really - a certifiable idiot.

I Said: Surely the rich will then have less to trickle down on everyone else, leaving us destitute as a result of their lack of charity.

Newton's third law of motion can be applied to the tax code as well. Your hyperbole notwithstanding, it has been proven time and again that the target of punitive taxes are the least affected.

Pocket Ninja: this time it would be some pimply-faced high school kid in a McDonald's uniform or something like that peering out from beneath his "XXX dollars isn't that high of a salary I don't think that's rich at all" comment.

You should also make one that says "Because I don't make that much, nobody should!"

Since the Reagan Revolution, rich people have been REALLY reaming the shiat out of the lower classes on a daily basis. They get 3 trillion without any strings, but universal healthcare is some kind of bad idea because it's going to effect the bottom lines of these rich people's companies. They'll let taxpayers die of curable illnesses, and spend all the saved money buying Congressmen to represent their twisted world view in halls paid for by those taxpayers. Where are they losing out? Why are we supposed to relate to that kind of selfish, sociopathic behavior, subby?fark the rich.

Dancin_In_Anson: I Said: Surely the rich will then have less to trickle down on everyone else, leaving us destitute as a result of their lack of charity.

Newton's third law of motion can be applied to the tax code as well. Your hyperbole notwithstanding, it has been proven time and again that the target of punitive taxes are the least affected.

you'd figure people would have learned their lesson after that whole AMT mess....

*sigh*

But no. Despite the fact that NONE of the people targeted by the AMT got caught in it's web, people still wanna 'tax the rich'.