Big business will always Pwn the home owner and mother nature.

?cowfarts

nice subby... golf clap

Are they not supposed to do that?

There's a youtube video out there of a similar, if not the same area, where residents can set their water on fire

Coincidence subby sheesh. The drilling company is doing good for the environment and are in no way responsible. The homeowners are ungrateful whiners and their worldview is blighted and retarded.

I feel dirty... I'm going to go shower. IN FIRE.

AbbeySomeone: Coincidence subby sheesh. The drilling company is doing good for the environment and are in no way responsible. The homeowners are ungrateful whiners and their worldview is blighted and retarded.

Further, it is apparent that they have been mooching free methane.

This thread is useless without pictures.

Ka-blammo. Excuse me. It must have been that bean I had for dinner.

vudukungfu: Big business will always Pwn the home owner and mother nature.

Over in 1.

From The Article:

"Petroglyph insists it's a good neighbor. Despite the methane mystery, it's trucking water to 14 area homes and has supplied 15 homes with methane alarm systems. "


So you ruin the tap water and cause methane to leak into the house, and you're a good neighbor because you truck in water and give me a detector for the methane?

I think our ideas of 'a good neighbor' differ substantially.

At least it's not this bad.

FTA:Colorado also is rewriting rules that had allowed Petroglyph to discharge water runoff from its drilling into streams and creeks.

Fourth-generation dairy farmer Brett Corsentino blames the discharges into the Cucharas River for ruining his corn crops. He uses river water to irrigate his crops just a few miles east of the homeowners having problems with their wells. He says the high levels of sodium in the wastewater has diminished his soil's ability to absorb water and stunted the corn's growth.

"They say, `Well, there's no proof,'" Corsentino said. "Well, we'd been getting along for generations just fine until they started pumping 8 million gallons out of this country."

Corsentino also says his herd suffered abnormally high birth and death rates and now numbers 400, down from 650. He believes the cows consumed too much sodium from the water and corn grown from it. His corn used to produce 6,000 tons of silage; this year's crop yielded 1,500 tons.


Holy crap, Colorado lets them run that ancient seawater right into the local streams and rivers?

Raton Basin - Bituminous coal mines opened in the Raton Basin in 1873. Walsenburg, Colorado, Trinidad, Colorado and Raton, New Mexico became coal-mining towns. The coal deposits are in the Vermejo Formation (Cretaceous) and overlying Raton Formation (Cretaceous and Paleocene).[3] Most of the mines were underground room-and-pillar, although in later years some mines in New Mexico used longwall mining. Some strip mining was done in New Mexico.

A number of wells have been drilled over the years seeking conventional oil and natural gas, but none has been produced in economic quantities in the basin. In April 2008, Pioneer Natural Resources announced that they were developing natural gas reserves in the Cretaceous Pierre Shale on their leasehold in the Raton Basin.

Coals in the Raton Basin were long known to be "gassy." During development of the Morely mine in the early part of the 20th century, two gas relief wells were drilled into the coal, as a safety measure to drain off gas ahead of mining.[6]

The first wells seeking to produce coalbed methane were drilled in the Raton Basin in 1982.[7] Thousands of wells have successfully extracted coalbed methane from the Vermejo Formation and Raton Formation coals. The productive coalbed methane area now covers the central part of the basin, and straddles the Colorado-New Mexico state line. The two major producing companies are Pioneer Natural Resources (on the Colorado side) and El Paso Corporation (on the New Mexico side). In 2007, the coalbed methane field of the Raton Basin produced 124 billion cubic feet of gas, making it the 17th largest source of natural gas in the United States.[8] (new window)





All of these new residents and retirees are drilling water wells into a shallow aquifer overlying a shallow, gassy, young coal formation. It's likely that these people would be having these problems even if CBM development never occurred in the Basin - and please note that CBM production has been going on for 27 years, and now all of a sudden there are these water well problems in new water wells.

The waste water discharge issue is separate and is being worked from a number of different angles. (new window)

30' flames? Kinda reminds me of the awesome curry I made on Sat.

Stupid whiny caribou.

Drill baby drill.

I heard there's oil in them there whales. Gonna set me up a derrick on Shamu, darn tootin (wink).

You betcha

FTFA "They say, `Well, there's no proof,'" Corsentino said. "Well, we'd been getting along for generations just fine until they started pumping 8 million gallons out of this country."

Correlation does not equal causation.

The most painful and rewarding part of building my house was putting a gas well in. I can concur with the guy in the article about it sounding like a freight train when we first hit it. I have heard stories about neighbors abandoning their water wells due to methane seepage and a couple about flaming glasses of water although I have never seen it.



/digging in the coal seams now

ThoughtSpy: From The Article:

"Petroglyph insists it's a good neighbor. Despite the methane mystery, it's trucking water to 14 area homes and has supplied 15 homes with methane alarm systems. "


So you ruin the tap water and cause methane to leak into the house, and you're a good neighbor because you truck in water and give me a detector for the methane?

I think our ideas of 'a good neighbor' differ substantially.

They're not charging them for the methane.

Bored Horde: There's a youtube video out there of a similar, if not the same area, where residents can set their water on fire

actually, that can happen naturally. Many springs throughoutNorthern New Mexico have naturally dissolved methane in the water. Bottle the water, shake it and slam it on the table, remove cap and light water and get a candle flame that can last for a few seconds or so.

/just make sure you sterilize it before drinking
//giardia is a biatch and a half.

canyoneer: Raton Basin - Bituminous coal mines opened in the Raton Basin in 1873. Walsenburg, Colorado, Trinidad, Colorado and Raton, New Mexico became coal-mining towns. The coal deposits are in the Vermejo Formation (Cretaceous) and overlying Raton Formation (Cretaceous and Paleocene).[3] Most of the mines were underground room-and-pillar, although in later years some mines in New Mexico used longwall mining. Some strip mining was done in New Mexico.

A number of wells have been drilled over the years seeking conventional oil and natural gas, but none has been produced in economic quantities in the basin. In April 2008, Pioneer Natural Resources announced that they were developing natural gas reserves in the Cretaceous Pierre Shale on their leasehold in the Raton Basin.

Coals in the Raton Basin were long known to be "gassy." During development of the Morely mine in the early part of the 20th century, two gas relief wells were drilled into the coal, as a safety measure to drain off gas ahead of mining.[6]

The first wells seeking to produce coalbed methane were drilled in the Raton Basin in 1982.[7] Thousands of wells have successfully extracted coalbed methane from the Vermejo Formation and Raton Formation coals. The productive coalbed methane area now covers the central part of the basin, and straddles the Colorado-New Mexico state line. The two major producing companies are Pioneer Natural Resources (on the Colorado side) and El Paso Corporation (on the New Mexico side). In 2007, the coalbed methane field of the Raton Basin produced 124 billion cubic feet of gas, making it the 17th largest source of natural gas in the United States.[8] (new window)

All of these new residents and retirees are drilling water wells into a shallow aquifer overlying a shallow, gassy, young coal formation. It's likely that these people would be having these problems even if CBM development never occurred in the Basin - and please note that CBM production has been going on for 27 years, and now all of a sudden there are these water well problems in new water wells.

The waste water discharge issue is separate and is being worked from a number of different angles. (new window)

Unless of course, a recent increase in water pressure fractured a frgile seam, as has happened many times before in this kind of mining, and opened up the seam to allow methane to escape into nearby ground water

Oh yeah? (Click for more info...)

cowfarts? wtf ap?

jph: Oh yeah?

Not even close to the same situation.

Damn, somebody light a match.

I wish my yard was that interesting.

Canyoneer
Good post. I would also like to know at what depth Petroglyph is drilling and the aquifer depth. If they are relatively far apart, I wonder if there is enough of a fracture network to have zonal communication? I am shocked that Colorado, as environmental as it is, has such lax rules about production/process water. I would figure that they would be all about the reinjection well. About the plume of flame, even shallow coals can have a hard initial kick.

Magorn: "Unless of course, a recent increase in water pressure fractured a frgile seam, as has happened many times before in this kind of mining, and opened up the seam to allow methane to escape into nearby ground water"

CBM wells reduce water pressure because lots of water is produced with the methane. Furthermore, all of this is produced through the production tubing within the well casing, meaning there is no avenue of escape from the well itself. If the casing is breached, you have a washout or loss of pressure and a non-producing well that has to be abandoned.

IOW, correlation is not causation, and the conclusion that Petroglyph's production is causing these water well problems is premature. Perhaps. perhaps only in part. pwerhaps petroglyph's production is totally unrelated to these problems.

I'm very familiar with this area. Cuchara has seen an explosion of vacation and retirement home building in the last ten years, with the attendant drilling of hundreds or thousands of new water wells in this shallow aquifer overlying shallow, gassy coal beds. This is a complex situation with high pressure CO2 production in the northwestern section of the basin, old shallow coal mines throughout the basin, CBM production across the basin going back almost 30 years, and now more conventional Pierre Shale plays - like have been drilled in the DJ Basin in NE Colorado for 60 years. Add the proliferation of shallow water wells, and you have a complex situation in the subsurface.

It isn't a slam dunk that Petroglyph's activities are causing these problems at all, but Petroglyph might be a lucrative target for some clown from Texas who had the bad luck to drill a gassy water well on his retirement ranchette.

Meh- call me when residents start seeing rainbows coming out of their garden hoses, then I'll panic.

coffeeshopgoth: I am shocked that Colorado, as environmental as it is, has such lax rules about production/process water.

it's possible the salinity of the waste was under estimated, or the first of it pumped out and used to determine whether it was safe to just dump, was less saline.

Cuchara (the general vicinity in question):



It's beautiful down there, and remote. But energy production has occurred in the Basin for well over 100 years. Now, thousands of retirees move in and suddenly there's a Big Problem. How about that?

Oh, and please remember that the Raton Basin is laced with tertiary volcanism - sills, dikes, plugs, and lava flows abound in the area (as you can see in the picture above). These features and the attendant fracturing and faulting provide yet more avenues for water and methane to move through the subsurface.

canyoneer: [well thought analysis]

you have a very good point - it could as easily not be there fault

all that increased drinking use pumping could have reduced pressure on the top of the formation and an impermeable layer could have fractured.


we drill water wells in this country like there will be no consequences.... then act all suprised when bad stuff happens

look at the Oglalla Aquifer (new window) for example

canyoneer: Cuchara (the general vicinity in question):



It's beautiful

you can say that again.


i live in friggen iowa.. have my entire life :(

canyoneer: Magorn: "Unless of course, a recent increase in water pressure fractured a frgile seam, as has happened many times before in this kind of mining, and opened up the seam to allow methane to escape into nearby ground water"

CBM wells reduce water pressure because lots of water is produced with the methane. Furthermore, all of this is produced through the production tubing within the well casing, meaning there is no avenue of escape from the well itself. If the casing is breached, you have a washout or loss of pressure and a non-producing well that has to be abandoned.

IOW, correlation is not causation, and the conclusion that Petroglyph's production is causing these water well problems is premature. Perhaps. perhaps only in part. pwerhaps petroglyph's production is totally unrelated to these problems.

I'm very familiar with this area. Cuchara has seen an explosion of vacation and retirement home building in the last ten years, with the attendant drilling of hundreds or thousands of new water wells in this shallow aquifer overlying shallow, gassy coal beds. This is a complex situation with high pressure CO2 production in the northwestern section of the basin, old shallow coal mines throughout the basin, CBM production across the basin going back almost 30 years, and now more conventional Pierre Shale plays - like have been drilled in the DJ Basin in NE Colorado for 60 years. Add the proliferation of shallow water wells, and you have a complex situation in the subsurface.

It isn't a slam dunk that Petroglyph's activities are causing these problems at all, but Petroglyph might be a lucrative target for some clown from Texas who had the bad luck to drill a gassy water well on his retirement ranchette.

You are in the natural gas business, right? Just guessing by your use of certain terms I've only ever heard from an energy company or a landman.

Something like this happened in Hutchinson, Kansas in 2001. They were storing gas in salt mines and it just exploded, causing brine and fire fountains all over town.

/from Modern Marvels: Engineering Disasters

God damn it, won't these people stop pretending their health and well being are more important than the huge profits to be gained by a small handful of already rich people?

canyoneer: ...and please remember that the Raton Basin is laced with tertiary volcanism - sills, dikes, plugs, and lava flows abound in the area (as you can see in the picture above). These features and the attendant fracturing and faulting provide yet more avenues for water and methane to move through the subsurface.

Did you get that from the Tourism Bureau pamphlet?

/Sounds like a fun place
//For me to poop on!

Waste water from gas production has been dumped in the West for decades. It's only in recent years that it's been recognized (or perceived) as an environmental problem. In the old days, ranchers in Wyoming (e.g.) welcomed it and they built stock ponds on drainages where such dumping happened in order to collect the water for their cattle. Now it's a big problem. Some companies have long disposed of the water through re-injection. This associated water is a big, expensive pain in the ass for the energy companies. The water in the Raton Basin is relatively clean.

The state of Colorado and the Federal government are building a pilot treatment project in the DJ Basin with the active encouragment of Colorado's (Democratic) Senators and Representatives and with the cooperation of energy companies. If economically feasible, it will be a win-win: More clean natural gas production and large additional supplies of potable water.

INFO (^)

Probably the same way the fossil fuel industry can't see how there's any connection between greenhouse gasses and global warming.

canyoneer: Waste water from gas production has been dumped in the West for decades. It's only in recent years that it's been recognized (or perceived) as an environmental problem. In the old days, ranchers in Wyoming (e.g.) welcomed it and they built stock ponds on drainages where such dumping happened in order to collect the water for their cattle. Now it's a big problem. Some companies have long disposed of the water through re-injection. This associated water is a big, expensive pain in the ass for the energy companies. The water in the Raton Basin is relatively clean.

The state of Colorado and the Federal government are building a pilot treatment project in the DJ Basin with the active encouragment of Colorado's (Democratic) Senators and Representatives and with the cooperation of energy companies. If economically feasible, it will be a win-win: More clean natural gas production and large additional supplies of potable water.

INFO (^)

Now that is an exceptionally cool idea if they can make it work. Especially since potable water may be scarcer than oil in a century or two.

This whole situation reeks of corporate greed and disregard for the well-being of the local community.

EatHam: AbbeySomeone: Coincidence subby sheesh. The drilling company is doing good for the environment and are in no way responsible. The homeowners are ungrateful whiners and their worldview is blighted and retarded.

Further, it is apparent that they have been mooching free methane.

I'm mooching free methane right now so I'm getting a kick out...*KABLOOOOOM!*

Without my oil, you got no automobiles. Without automobiles, you got no road construction, no sidewalks, no city lights, no gas stations, no automotive service, and no Berman subdivision stuck out in the tules, because nobody can get there. Then Mr. Berman's out of business, before he even gets in business. The name of the game is oil, John.

local resident's water wells

Apostrophe fail, subby. Happened to more than one resident.

What's everyone biatching about, FREE HOTWATER!!! Imagine showers that never turn cold, water that is pre-boiled making dinner prep that much quicker -- the possibilities are endless!

OK, I'll admit that Ice Tea will be a challenge -- but still...

austerity101: local resident's water wells

Apostrophe fail, subby. Happened to more than one resident.

THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Is primary school attendance still required in this country? WTF is wrong with people?

Apostrophe.

/Frank Zappa

...Reminds me of This Thread (new window) where a very similar thing happened in a very similar area.

vudukungfu: Big business will always Pwn the home owner and mother nature.