If this goes on, people will have to live within their means. Scary stuff.

I tend to use this thing called CASH.

BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

How well does that work with chargebacks? If you pay for something with cash, and get ripped off, does the Treasury Department go to bat for you?

EatHam: BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

How well does that work with chargebacks? If you pay for something with cash, and get ripped off, does the Treasury Department go to bat for you?

Yeah...that's why I use my credit card for large purchases. That, and I get to use the bank's money for a few weeks until I pay it off.

BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

Please tell us more about this 'cash' thing.

EatHam: How well does that work with chargebacks? If you pay for something with cash, and get ripped off, does the Treasury Department go to bat for you?

How did we deal with it for the several hundred years before credit cards came about?

Crosshair: EatHam: How well does that work with chargebacks? If you pay for something with cash, and get ripped off, does the Treasury Department go to bat for you?

How did we deal with it for the several hundred years before credit cards came about?

In those days the merchant was usually local, which made things a bit simpler. Now, if I order something off the internet, chances are good that the merchant is not anywhere near me.

Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash. As ol' Mr. Burns said, "money is for the poor".

I don't live in debt and out of my means, but a credit card is still very useful.

I don't do this, but I think it makes a lot of sense:

Get a credit card with cash back with a limit equal to your monthly expenses or your monthly income. (The former is preferable.) Have your paychecks automatically deposited into a high interest savings account like a money market account.

If you get 1% cash back on purchases, you're effectively paying 99 cents on the dollar. And if you earn 1% interest on your savings, you have another 1% added to your income.

So while your income is earning interest over the month, you're also earning cash back. And since you pay your credit card off at the end of the month, you don't pay any interest.

The Icelander: I don't do this, but I think it makes a lot of sense:

Get a credit card with cash back with a limit equal to your monthly expenses or your monthly income. (The former is preferable.) Have your paychecks automatically deposited into a high interest savings account like a money market account.

If you get 1% cash back on purchases, you're effectively paying 99 cents on the dollar. And if you earn 1% interest on your savings, you have another 1% added to your income.

So while your income is earning interest over the month, you're also earning cash back. And since you pay your credit card off at the end of the month, you don't pay any interest.

Math is hard :(

Starryeyes: Math is hard :(

Don't worry yourself sweet cheeks. Let us men manage the money. You go bake some pies.

BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

I tend to trade salt and pelts for goods when I travel.

The Icelander: I don't do this, but I think it makes a lot of sense:

Get a credit card with cash back with a limit equal to your monthly expenses or your monthly income. (The former is preferable.) Have your paychecks automatically deposited into a high interest savings account like a money market account.

If you get 1% cash back on purchases, you're effectively paying 99 cents on the dollar. And if you earn 1% interest on your savings, you have another 1% added to your income.

So while your income is earning interest over the month, you're also earning cash back. And since you pay your credit card off at the end of the month, you don't pay any interest.

Fark all that noise broseph!! I just replaced my kitchen window with a 55 inch LCD cuz mother nature aint in no HD.

The Icelander: ....

Yeah, like I'm gonna take financial advice from someone called The Icelander.

I'm so &%?^*&$ sick of hearing about my CREDIT SCORE and how important it is that my CREDIT SCORE be good and that I should work hard on improving my CREDIT SCORE.

It's all a racket. The bankers have succeeded in linking their product directly to a number that a sick, decaying society is happy to equate with your worth as a human being. And, what's more, since they control the system anything you do that they don't like reflects negatively on that number. Too many cards? Too few? Close a card? Good lucky buying a house, jack! Oh, and guess what, if you don't play ball with us we'll kill it, and you might even have a problem getting a job!

Slaxl: Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash.

I have a Capital One Platinum card. It was the card I got freshman year of college. Platinum/Gold doesn't mean shiat anymore especially if a freshman in college with no credit history can get one.

St_Francis_P: Crosshair: EatHam: How well does that work with chargebacks? If you pay for something with cash, and get ripped off, does the Treasury Department go to bat for you?

How did we deal with it for the several hundred years before credit cards came about?

In those days the merchant was usually local, which made things a bit simpler. Now, if I order something off the internet, chances are good that the merchant is not anywhere near me.

If you order something from the internet, you're not paying with with actual, paper cash. You're using a money order, or PayPal, or a check, all of which offer some level of protection.

The Icelander: I don't do this, but I think it makes a lot of sense:

Get a credit card with cash back with a limit equal to your monthly expenses or your monthly income. (The former is preferable.) Have your paychecks automatically deposited into a high interest savings account like a money market account.

If you get 1% cash back on purchases, you're effectively paying 99 cents on the dollar. And if you earn 1% interest on your savings, you have another 1% added to your income.

So while your income is earning interest over the month, you're also earning cash back. And since you pay your credit card off at the end of the month, you don't pay any interest.

Every single cash back card I have ever seen have yearly subscription fee's(or whatever you want to call them its the same shiat). These fees amount to higher interest. Now if your one of the "but I pay it off before I get charged interest" crowd then you all have obviously done the math and realised that for you to break even on the yearly subscription fee for your 1% cash back that most of the time this amounts to 16000$ worth of charges going through that card Per year. JUST to make your subscription fee back.

PPL_Wannabe: BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

Please tell us more about this 'cash' thing.

Slaxl: Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash

Image? IMAGE? Who the fark cares about image when you're buying a cart full of groceries? Or anything else for that matter? Do you think the $9/hr clerk actually cares?

dofus: Slaxl: Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash

Image? IMAGE? Who the fark cares about image when you're buying a cart full of groceries? Or anything else for that matter? Do you think the $9/hr clerk actually cares?

I know its hard to believe but there ARE people out there who think exactly this. That they must impress every single person at all times even when 99% of the time nobody even pays attention to what they think is impressive.

poisonedpawn78:

Every single cash back card I have ever seen have yearly subscription fee's(or whatever you want to call them its the same shiat).

I've had three different cards that did cash back, and none of them had fees - two Discover cards and one Mastercard.

Whodat?: I'm so &%?^*&$ sick of hearing about my CREDIT SCORE and how important it is that my CREDIT SCORE be good and that I should work hard on improving my CREDIT SCORE.

It's all a racket. The bankers have succeeded in linking their product directly to a number that a sick, decaying society is happy to equate with your worth as a human being. And, what's more, since they control the system anything you do that they don't like reflects negatively on that number. Too many cards? Too few? Close a card? Good lucky buying a house, jack! Oh, and guess what, if you don't play ball with us we'll kill it, and you might even have a problem getting a job!

Sounds like you have credit problems. Good credit speaks for responsibility, jack. You pay your bills, your card off every month. You are a responsible human being. your insurance rates go down some. you get better rates on home loan/cards because you have a history of being responsible.

you miss payments, bye good rating. Learn this at an early age, youngin's.

Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

poisonedpawn78: Every single cash back card I have ever seen have yearly subscription fee's(or whatever you want to call them its the same shiat). These fees amount to higher interest. Now if your one of the "but I pay it off before I get charged interest" crowd then you all have obviously done the math and realised that for you to break even on the yearly subscription fee for your 1% cash back that most of the time this amounts to 16000$ worth of charges going through that card Per year. JUST to make your subscription fee back.

You obviously haven't looked very hard: Link (new window)

2% cash back on gas and grocery, 1% on everything else. No annual fee. If you have average credit, you can get a card with a $39 annual fee, meaning you'd have to purchase $3900 to make the fee back(entirely reasonable in a family). No where near $16000 worth.

phedex: Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

That all sounds good until you understand that the factors they consider is moving target and are changed to allow them the upper hand at any given moment.

closing an account is now considered bad...
no rolling balance is now considered bad...

Factors that were once considered as being financially responsible will be used negatively against you.

Starryeyes:

Math is hard :(

Your work is lovely, but it's so... spermy. I'm looking at all your pictures and it's like...sperm, sperm, that one looks like sperm too, sperm...it just keeps on going.

BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

I tried to fit my CASH into the slot in the side of my MacBook. Did not work. :(

Simple rule. I don't hand an 18-year-old cashier or waiter a card linked to the bank account that my mortgage expects to auto-debit on the first of the month.

Cash, fine. A separate day-to-day checking account/debit card, okay. Credit card (someone else's money), even better.

phedex:
Sounds like you have credit problems. Good credit speaks for responsibility, jack. You pay your bills, your card off every month. You are a responsible human being. your insurance rates go down some. you get better rates on home loan/cards because you have a history of being responsible.

you miss payments, bye good rating. Learn this at an early age, youngin's.

Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

I think you're missing the point, if you pay with cash/a debit card you are being responsible, in fact more responsible because you aren't borrowing anything. But banks don't like that so they won't give you as good a loan. If credit score reflected financial responsibility accurately it would take the fact that people without cards need to pay for things and clearly are able to do so.

Postal Penguin: poisonedpawn78: Every single cash back card I have ever seen have yearly subscription fee's(or whatever you want to call them its the same shiat). These fees amount to higher interest. Now if your one of the "but I pay it off before I get charged interest" crowd then you all have obviously done the math and realised that for you to break even on the yearly subscription fee for your 1% cash back that most of the time this amounts to 16000$ worth of charges going through that card Per year. JUST to make your subscription fee back.

You obviously haven't looked very hard: Link (new window)

2% cash back on gas and grocery, 1% on everything else. No annual fee. If you have average credit, you can get a card with a $39 annual fee, meaning you'd have to purchase $3900 to make the fee back(entirely reasonable in a family). No where near $16000 worth.

Link (new window)

I have done the research too, here is a handy article off the the top of my head.

Apparently in Canada the credit cards are much worse for the cash back rewards. The one thing this article doesnt mention is the yearly sub fees.

Additionally there are caps and miniums before the actual cash back rates kick in resulting in the majority of the time the amount needed to break even being significanly in the teens of thousands.

I guess this is because in canada we generally have less credit card debt so they had to find another way to punish the customer where as in the US there are larger average balances which makes them keep the rules to a minimum.

This "article" brought to you by Visa.

In 1966, in an effort to combat organized crime; the state of New York passed an updated anti-loan sharking law (or , using the technical criminal term Anti-usury) to clamp down on the outrageous interest rates at which mobster loaned out money. Under the law it was a crime to loan out money for more than the astronomically high interest rate of 25% per annum. Any loan made for a higher amount subjected the lan maker to criminal penalties and cancelled the debt of the person recieving the loan

Almost every state in the union had a similar law. With their caps generally falling between 20%-36%

then in 1978 something very significant happened-The US Supreme Court decided that national banks may export the state interest rate law of their home state into any state where they do business. In response, South Dakota eliminated its interest rate caps. Several credit card issuing banks moved to South Dakota and operated nationally with no interest rate cap.

And that's when it all fell apart Every other state raced to eliminate their interest rate caps too to attract credit card companies (this is the classic "race to the bottom") and the concept of "usury" as a crime- something that dated back to the Bible and the Code of Hammurabbi was sacrificed in pursuit of corporate profit.

and this is EXACTLY what would happen if the Republican "health care reform" proposal to allow insurers to operate across state lines subject only to the restriction of their home state were enacted.

Slaxl: Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash

Go into a large store like best buy or some other place with a wad of $100 bills and say, "I'm looking for a deal." You'll get a better response than waving around a piece of plastic. If you are not in a position to thumb a wad of $100 bills, then you shouldn't be in the store to begin with.

tricycleracer: This "article" brought to you bought by Visa.

ftfy

BillCo: I tend to use this thing called CASH.

Please have four pieces of ID and note from your Mother handy when paying by cash.

OOH! *Another* credit card thread!

Modified Cornstarch: If you are not in a position to thumb a wad of $100 bills, then you shouldn't be in the store to begin with.

You probably didn't get in that position by shopping at Best Buy, so why are you going there now?

I'll post a thought for you all - if you debit card gets stolen all the money in your checking account disappears. If your credit card gets stolen your credit is maxed out on that card.

Which is worse? Especially when the mortgage/rent comes due?

/not to mention that debit cards don't carry the same protections as credit cards
//DRTFA

bravian: I'll post a thought for you all - if you debit card gets stolen all the money in your checking account disappears. If your credit card gets stolen your credit is maxed out on that card.

Which is worse? Especially when the mortgage/rent comes due?

/not to mention that debit cards don't carry the same protections as credit cards
//DRTFA

Most banks allow you to put a daily limit(if its not already enforced by the bank itself) on the amount you can use from a debit card to help protect against this exact problem.

Set the limit, then when it gets stolen your only hit for that amount until the bank refunds it through investigation. The bank will still protect you on the same level that a credit card would. The only difference is a credit card company will be checking your spending habits more closely than debit cards because its not your money they are worried about.

In the end in both situations you still get it back and in most situations ive experienced(personal/friends) the debit will get refunded faster than the credit card.

Modified Cornstarch: Slaxl: Paying with a gold or platinum credit card gives you a much better image than paying with a debit card, or cash

Go into a large store like best buy or some other place with a wad of $100 bills and say, "I'm looking for a deal." You'll get a better response than waving around a piece of plastic. If you are not in a position to thumb a wad of $100 bills, then you shouldn't be in the store to begin with.

Bwhahahahahahahahah! You think Best Buy cares about your wad of cash? You think they can make you a "deal". You want a deal go to a place with sales folks and not glorified cashiers.

True story for my first house I was buying a washer, dryer, dishwasher, stove, and refrigerator from Best Buy, about $5K worth of appliances when at the same time I bought this video ripping device for my PC. I had just landed a freelance gig to transfer some five year old security videos to DVD.

Anyway the software that game with the video ripper totally trashed my PC. I had to reformat and reinstall the OS it was so bad. I did that twice before giveing up. So, I take the fraking thing back to Best Buy, before they were set to deliver the appliances and they refused to refund my money as they classified what I bought software not hardware, when the dam thing had a piece of hardware with it.

I pitched a fit took all the way to a guy who said he was the store manager, but he refused to refund my $200 for that pieceo of shiat. I pulled out my receipt for those appliances and put it to him that he could either refund my $200 bucks or I was canceling this order. He still refused to refund my money and I cancelled those appliances. I still can not belief he would rather lose a $5k sale then refund $200.

Found out later that the problem with the software was it did not run on XP it ran on Win 98 just fine, but totally farked up XPs drivers.

ILostMyPassword: phedex:
Sounds like you have credit problems. Good credit speaks for responsibility, jack. You pay your bills, your card off every month. You are a responsible human being. your insurance rates go down some. you get better rates on home loan/cards because you have a history of being responsible.

you miss payments, bye good rating. Learn this at an early age, youngin's.

Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

I think you're missing the point, if you pay with cash/a debit card you are being responsible, in fact more responsible because you aren't borrowing anything. But banks don't like that so they won't give you as good a loan. If credit score reflected financial responsibility accurately it would take the fact that people without cards need to pay for things and clearly are able to do so.

Well said.

And for the record, phedex, my credit is about as good as one can reasonably expect from a full-time Masters student. This may come as a shock to your system, but people can hold opinions that are not directly linked to their current financial/social/personal condition.

And FWIW, if a credit score was only about your credit risk I wouldn't have such a problem with it. But the simple fact that it has turned into a catch-all score for your trustworthiness as a citizen portends bad, bad things for our society. If the idea that your unwillingness or inability to do business with a segment of the private sector can be the basis on which you are denied employment doesn't chill you to the bone, I don't know what to say to you.

phedex: Whodat?: I'm so &%?^*&$ sick of hearing about my CREDIT SCORE and how important it is that my CREDIT SCORE be good and that I should work hard on improving my CREDIT SCORE.

It's all a racket. The bankers have succeeded in linking their product directly to a number that a sick, decaying society is happy to equate with your worth as a human being. And, what's more, since they control the system anything you do that they don't like reflects negatively on that number. Too many cards? Too few? Close a card? Good lucky buying a house, jack! Oh, and guess what, if you don't play ball with us we'll kill it, and you might even have a problem getting a job!

Sounds like you have credit problems. Good credit speaks for responsibility, jack. You pay your bills, your card off every month. You are a responsible human being. your insurance rates go down some. you get better rates on home loan/cards because you have a history of being responsible.

you miss payments, bye good rating. Learn this at an early age, youngin's.

Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

I have credit problems, however, it ALL stems from the simple fact that I am a graduate student with limited income living in Los Angeles. My first year living in LA I had to LIVE off of my cc's for food, gas, car maintance, etc. I didn't want to do this but I was getting very little financial aid to help with the basics like rent. 3 years later I am still paying off those cc's. It has been hell. Especially when I miss a payment and my phone starts to ring...

I haven't used a cc since in two years. I only use my debit card. Screw my FICO score for now. Until I am out of school and I have a real job with a steady income, I can not afford to use cc's.

/not everyone who has cc problems are irresponsible, sh*t happens.

The message is sponsored by all the major credit card companies

This is BS. Cash (debit) is good. Very similar to the oil companies you need to change your engine oil every 3 thousand miles.

Another thread where financial nitwits can brag about their spending habits.

Dance you stupid monkeys, dance!

raerae1980: I have credit problems, however, it ALL stems from the simple fact that I am a graduate student with limited income living in Los Angeles. My first year living in LA I had to LIVE off of my cc's for food, gas, car maintance, etc. I didn't want to do this but I was getting very little financial aid to help with the basics like rent. 3 years later I am still paying off those cc's. It has been hell. Especially when I miss a payment and my phone starts to ring...

I haven't used a cc since in two years. I only use my debit card. Screw my FICO score for now. Until I am out of school and I have a real job with a steady income, I can not afford to use cc's.

/not everyone who has cc problems are irresponsible, sh*t happens.

How so?

raerae1980: phedex: Whodat?: I'm so &%?^*&$ sick of hearing about my CREDIT SCORE and how important it is that my CREDIT SCORE be good and that I should work hard on improving my CREDIT SCORE.

It's all a racket. The bankers have succeeded in linking their product directly to a number that a sick, decaying society is happy to equate with your worth as a human being. And, what's more, since they control the system anything you do that they don't like reflects negatively on that number. Too many cards? Too few? Close a card? Good lucky buying a house, jack! Oh, and guess what, if you don't play ball with us we'll kill it, and you might even have a problem getting a job!

Sounds like you have credit problems. Good credit speaks for responsibility, jack. You pay your bills, your card off every month. You are a responsible human being. your insurance rates go down some. you get better rates on home loan/cards because you have a history of being responsible.

you miss payments, bye good rating. Learn this at an early age, youngin's.

Not a racket, probably a pretty effective means of calculating risks.

I have credit problems, however, it ALL stems from the simple fact that I am a graduate student with limited income living in Los Angeles. My first year living in LA I had to LIVE off of my cc's for food, gas, car maintance, etc. I didn't want to do this but I was getting very little financial aid to help with the basics like rent. 3 years later I am still paying off those cc's. It has been hell. Especially when I miss a payment and my phone starts to ring...

I haven't used a cc since in two years. I only use my debit card. Screw my FICO score for now. Until I am out of school and I have a real job with a steady income, I can not afford to use cc's.

/not everyone who has cc problems are irresponsible, sh*t happens.

I would say you irresponsibly went to school in a place you could not afford to live. Was there no other school that had the graduate degree you wanted? Say some where that you could afford to live and go to school at? You are as irresponsible as the dipshiats that just had to have the 4000 square foot houses on a 40K a year salary.

I pay for everything with cash/debit card. I don't give a crap about my credit either. If I can't afford it right then I save up and buy it later.

Crematia: I pay for everything with cash/debit card. I don't give a crap about my credit either. If I can't afford it right then I save up and buy it later.

You can do both you know. You can have the money, use a card, get the rewards, and then pay for it in full. You are aware that this is an option, correct?

raerae1980: not everyone who has cc problems are irresponsible, sh*t happens.

Isn't going to a school you cannot afford to go to without going into debt and then complaining about said debt is irresponsible? If going to school A costs $X and you make less than $X, you knew going in that you would be going into debt. Shiat didn't happen. Shiat happens when your insurance denies coverage and the only way to pay to keep Johnny alive is to max out the CC. Going to a school with known costs is not "shiat happens".

The reason articles exist warning you about over-using your debit card is because many banks charge a transaction fee when you use your card to make a point-of-sale purchase.

Imagine a scenario where you're paying off your expense credit card each month before billing charges are applied. You don't have to have a degree in math to see that automatic fees > unapplied finance charges. A credit card's stated rate of interest means fark-all if you pay the card off before the rate applies (so long as no annual fee is in place).


Now, if you really want to talk about the definition of a "racket"... consider the stories you've been reading about credit card companies charging annual membership fees for customers that don't carry month-to-month balances. That's a situation where you can do everything right and still get charged for it.

The banks have an interesting game running here. In order to be able to secure loans for large purchases (houses, cars) you need to show that you have a good credit score. The score proves you're an acceptible risk for a loan. In order to get a credit score you have to obtain credit of some sort (typically a credit card) and build up a credit history. You do this by making purchases and payments. Lots of people bought into this system and quite a few make sure they don't carry balances. That makes them excellent credit risks - and that's exactly what the banks want to start charging an annual fee for.

You might say "oh, but it's not fair to the banks for us to leverage their credit structure without any fee!" Banks already charge merchants for processing credit card transactions. They're already taking money on the front end of the exchange. Your finance charges are extra money on the back end, fees applied to cushion the risk they take by letting you pay back loaned funds at a slower rate. If you don't carry a balance, the bank still gets paid on your transactions - they just want more, and will take it if you will give it.


Here's where the racket part comes in.

One of the components of maintaining a good credit score is having a low ratio of debt to total credit. Another is having accounts of long standing. Closing down old credit cards can cause my FICO score to drop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_score_(United_States)


So over the barrel we go: If I get pissed at my bank for effectively slapping me with a "good customer" fee, my recourse is to close my account. Doing so can hurt my credit score, which makes it harder to make purchases in the future. If all the banks start charging fees this way, my option becomes to close all my accounts. I don't know what that will do to my credit score, though I imagine it won't be pleasant.

Older farkers all remember the catch-22 of being a college student: you need credit to get credit. You made it through that phase of your life, but are you willing to go through all that again in your 30s and 40s, when you need that credit score the most?

Not willing? Get used to paying that new fee, then.

Maybe they'll lube us up before they stick it in, but I doubt it.