Bunk/dead link, subby.

click it from this thread - it works.

I expect this thread to be full of people vehemently defending these loyal police officers who are just doing their job.

Tr0mBoNe: I expect this thread to be full of people vehemently defending these loyal police officers who are just doing their job.

When even the DA thinks the charge is bogus, it's a pretty tough sell.

Nice article.

Not defending cops who use excessive force, but this article illustrates a common problem for the police: The law allows an officer to contact someone based on "reasonable suspicion" of a crime. Cops use that authority to contact a lot of people in high crime and gang infested areas of which San Jose has both. But what does the cop do when someone doesn't comply with lawful orders during one of those "reasonable suspicion" stops? If you order someone to postion themselves for a pat-down search, perfectly within the officers authority, and the person says "fark you," what can the cop do? You know that as soon as the cop goes hands on, there's going to be resistance, even when no crime was being committed.

The only option is to remove the cops' authority to make reasonable suspicion stops and live the the resulting rise in crime in already high crime areas.

How can someone be charged with "Resisting Arrest" with no other charges? There has to be a reason to make the arrest that the alleged perpetrator is resisting.

CruiserTwelve: Not defending cops who use excessive force, but this article illustrates a common problem for the police: The law allows an officer to contact someone based on "reasonable suspicion" of a crime. Cops use that authority to contact a lot of people in high crime and gang infested areas of which San Jose has both. But what does the cop do when someone doesn't comply with lawful orders during one of those "reasonable suspicion" stops? If you order someone to postion themselves for a pat-down search, perfectly within the officers authority, and the person says "fark you," what can the cop do? You know that as soon as the cop goes hands on, there's going to be resistance, even when no crime was being committed.

The only option is to remove the cops' authority to make reasonable suspicion stops and live the the resulting rise in crime in already high crime areas.

Reasonable suspicion means "articulable facts" that lead the officer to believe that a crime has been, is being, or is about to occur. A darkie with baggy pants walking on the sidewalks does not reasonable suspicion make. If you had decent reading comprehension you'd realize the whole point of this article is that "resisting arrest" is the principle charge in 70% of such cases. That means in 70% of cases there are no articulable facts to speak of and the searches, seizures, and beatings are not justified, either through abuse of power or stupidity at the hands of law enforcement.

R.A.Danny: How can someone be charged with "Resisting Arrest" with no other charges? There has to be a reason to make the arrest that the alleged perpetrator is resisting.

Because the disrespect or potential reaching for a gun or whatever the "uh-oh the guy is maybe getting violent" suspicion happens when the cop has stopped to question someone who isn't necessarily committing any crime, the "hey what's going on?" interactions. The law is technically "resisting arrest OR delaying or obstructing a police officer." So if they only question, and they think you're "obstructing," there ya go.

Like the guy fixing his car.

I thought TFA had an interesting point that when determining what actions the "suspect" maybe is taking, it's helpful to consider that what are the odds of someone who is just fixing his car, or even breaking some MINOR law like riding without a headlight or jaywalking, is going to just up and escalate things by attacking a police officer (much less shooting one).

Unless the suspicion on the police's part starts out "yeah, maybe you're only jaywalking now but surely if I run your license I'll find something bad enough in there that you might think to fight (or kill) me rather than answer questions about it." So, suspecting every encounter to be with some criminal, because the streets are rife with criminals. Us vs. them.

But then on the other hand, those people on the street KNOW damn well that people only get pulled over for lack of a bicycle light in certain neighborhoods. They know full well how those things are used as "pretext stops" and what that means. So they're already predisposed to be resentful of the police, and then when you have a refusal to look into these cases, it just cements that. So it's a bad cycle.

Very often there's talk of taking data to try and determine if the police are profiling or not, reading TFA it strikes me that it would be interesting to keep data on these "resisting arrest" cases along with (1) the original infraction, IF any, that the person was stopped for, and (2) the location, even if you ignore the race/sex of the suspects.

itazurakko: Because the disrespect or potential reaching for a gun or whatever the "uh-oh the guy is maybe getting violent" suspicion happens when the cop has stopped to question someone who isn't necessarily committing any crime, the "hey what's going on?" interactions. The law is technically "resisting arrest OR delaying or obstructing a police officer." So if they only question, and they think you're "obstructing," there ya go.

You do not need to ever show a cop respect. Ever. I honestly do not understand how minority gangs haven't already declared war on law enforcement, nor would I blame them if they did.

Of course I'm a fat, middle aged, upper middle class white guy, so my experiences with the cops are far different, but we're talking about groups that are being actively oppressed here.

Any interaction I have with police presupposes on my part that the officer just had a fight with his wife, has been drinking all day, and believes his wife is cheating on him -- with me.

I've developed this method because every kid I went to school with who later became a cop had that kind of personality.

I'm still alive, and my arms haven't been broken, so this strategy seems to work.

R.A.Danny: You do not need to ever show a cop respect. Ever.

I agree with you. In fact, I think the mention of "contempt of cop" in TFA says a lot.

Dissing is not resisting. Mouthing off is not a crime. Dropping an F bomb, or a string of MF bombs is not a crime.

Having a thick skin to keep the poker face in the face of such "dissing" (which is likely to happen in situations where someone is getting arrested, even lawfully) is a requirement of the job. The police can't let themselves be trolled, and should keep in mind that they have the power of the law on their side, whether someone calls them a name OR not.

Way too many of these cases end up boiling down to "well, he mouthed off and I needed to teach him a lesson." That's not okay.

But as to why these things end up happening on a "case" that didn't even involve a minor crime to start with, it's because in California the law covers the "hey what's up" "just asking" sort of situations, which happen without any actual suspicions half the time. They don't even require any actual arrest to be happening for you to "resist."

The police in San jose are pigs, each and every single one of them.
They run that city like a Gestapo police state and are constantly using excessive force.
Just a bunch of gung-ho thugs who decided they wanted to join the legal gang instead of the illegal one. But it's just a different emblem/color, the mindset and IQ level is all the same.

I wont go within 10 miles of SJ, in fact, I stay out of Santa Clara county all together.
The place is a low rent suburban shiathole and there's no reason to be there anyway.

When I first moved down to the Bay Area about 10 years ago, I was arrested by the SJ police for asking if there was a lot of violence or gang activity because I walked out of a club at 2am on 1st street to be met by a wall of over 20 police officers lined up in the middle of the street, a medivac unit, firetruck and a swat van. My jaw about dropped, I thought I was walking into the middle of a riot or gang war. But nothings going on... hardly anyone on the street isn't in uniform so I walk through that to the next street and see pretty much the same thing. I walk yet another street over and see reduced police presence. I see a cop sitting in his car doing nothing. I approach him and say "Excuse me officer, I just moved here from out of town and I notice an extreme level of police presence. Is it always like this? Is this a violent area? Or is this level of police presence uncommon?" Seriously, there was 3 police officers to every person on the street at the time... it was surreal to see that level of police presence with nothing, and I mean nothing going on. San Jose on a Saturday night is about as dull as dull can be.

Anyway, the cop asks if I've been drinking to which I reply "yes, it's saturday night, but I'm not drunk and I'm not driving, I'm just asking a legitimate question out of concern for my own safety since the police presence here is pretty overwhelming... I've only seen it this large at the WTO riots in downtown Seattle when I used to there. Seriously guy, I'm not farking with you, I just moved here from Seattle a couple months ago" And he says "well you can get the fark out of my face or I'll arrest you for being drunk in public" So I promptly ask for his name and badge number, and sure enough I was promptly arrested. The charges were dropped before anything ever went to trial, but I still got to sit in a holding cell for 4 hours.

As I said, in SJ they run it like a police state. Your citizenship and protections of the US and State Constitution do not apply according to them.

DarthBrooks: Any interaction I have with police presupposes on my part that the officer just had a fight with his wife, has been drinking all day, and believes his wife is cheating on him -- with me.

I've developed this method because every kid I went to school with who later became a cop had that kind of personality.

I'm still alive, and my arms haven't been broken, so this strategy seems to work.

Love it. Just added you to favorites.
Thanks for the laugh.

Hey, that's what they get for not picking up the can..

//stunbaton.
//it's fun to cheat and shoot the combine in the face when he says that.

Fark It: Reasonable suspicion means "articulable facts" that lead the officer to believe that a crime has been, is being, or is about to occur. A darkie with baggy pants walking on the sidewalks does not reasonable suspicion make. If you had decent reading comprehension you'd realize the whole point of this article is that "resisting arrest" is the principle charge in 70% of such cases. That means in 70% of cases there are no articulable facts to speak of and the searches, seizures, and beatings are not justified, either through abuse of power or stupidity at the hands of law enforcement.

Read my post again.

Nowhere in the article does it say that the cops did not have reasonable suspicion to detain the person in question. That's not a point of contention. My post explains the problem the police have when they're acting in that gray area between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. You'd know that if you didn't filter my post through your personal biases.

Somaticasual: Hey, that's what they get for not picking up the can..

//stunbaton.
//it's fun to cheat and shoot the combine in the face when he says that.

I never did pick up that farking can.

Whoa there! Isn't San Jose one of those bastions of liberalism in Fascist Amerika!

Hope and change indeed, Citizen!

"You're under arrest." 'For what?' "Resisting arrest and... well, that's pretty much it."

That's positively Nathan Fillion-esque.

Note to self: Before sudden movements that may or may not be mistaken for hostile, consider asking officers for wet nap.

Around the nation, many departments closely monitor cases of resisting arrest because of a concern that the loosely defined crime is a "cover charge" used by errant cops to justify unnecessary force.


Approves

/hot

I got about half-way through it when I started getting tat taste of bile in my throat. I respect officers, but this shiat is indefensible.

The PIGS ruin the reputation of the good ones

/Protect and Serve does not mean to only extend that to your own kind, asswipes.

Every single cop that is killed in America is a victory for Americans.

rcain: SJ they run it like a police state.

Monterey and Sacramento counties are the same way. I was once arrested and TAZED for resisting arrest. True story.

itazurakko: Tr0mBoNe: I expect this thread to be full of people vehemently defending these loyal police officers who are just doing their job.

When even the DA thinks the charge is bogus, it's a pretty tough sell.

Nice article.

That black guy isn't going to beat himself up. Someones got to do it. You know he did somthing to deserve it.

Fark It:

Reasonable suspicion means "articulable facts" seeing that the person isn't white

FTFY

The last time Fark had a cop thread someone posted the following link to a film detailing police abuse. I found it fascinating and depressing, and so I'm adding it to this thread, seeing as how it fits the topic:

The Largest Street Gang in America

If San Jose, Monterey, and Sacramento are all like this, why haven't things gone all Athens 2008?

So, basically the police are well paid, much more consistently dressed street gang. Violent, lying, scumbags don't become less so simply because they work for the police.

I wonder where all the good cops were when all this was going down.

Oakland A's FTW!: rcain: SJ they run it like a police state.

Monterey and Sacramento counties are the same way. I was once arrested and TAZED for resisting arrest. True story.

Ya, I should count myself lucky, I was not tazed nor given any sort of force.
Then again, as soon as he said he was going to arrest me, I just laughed, turned around with my back to him and my hands behind my back ready to be cuffed. With so many other cops around (3 others came to assist), he really had no reason to get violent. Of course, if there was no one else around, I'm sure he would have done something to "teach me some respect".

I never even so much as got a public defender, and it took all of 2 court appearances due to my lolligagging before we got to any sort of pretrial hearing. At which I was going to ask for a continuance while I obtained an attorney... stalling even further, but the DA promptly stood up and said the city moved to dismiss with prejudice as soon as my case was called.

I figure it must have cost them at least a thousand dollars in administrative fees.
Didn't cost me a penny, just a few hours of my time.

some of you got your wish (new window) last night

Don't get me started on how many Sac County Sheriffs involved shootings that have occurred in the last 15 years or so.

swahnhennessy: The last time Fark had a cop thread someone posted the following link to a film detailing police abuse. I found it fascinating and depressing, and so I'm adding it to this thread, seeing as how it fits the topic:

The Largest Street Gang in America

Thanks for that, hadn't seen it before.

R.A.Danny: How can someone be charged with "Resisting Arrest" with no other charges? There has to be a reason to make the arrest that the alleged perpetrator is resisting.

The charge- not sure if this is a Cali thing or SJ/Santa Clara specific- is actually 'Interfering with or impeding a police officer in the course of their duty', or some such thing. Basically 'inconveniencing a cop'.

DarthBrooks: Any interaction I have with police presupposes on my part that the officer just had a fight with his wife, has been drinking all day, and believes his wife is cheating on him -- with me.

THIS.

itazurakko: R.A.Danny:
Very often there's talk of taking data to try and determine if the police are profiling or not.

It's not illegal to profile - only racially.

one of Ripley's Bad Guys
some of you got your wish (new window) last night

One down, thousands and thousands to go.

In all honesty, any time there is violence between a police officer and a suspect it should be reviewed by an agency not related to that police district. If it is found that the officer used unnecessary violence, then they should be barred from being a police officer in this country. One strike, no exceptions.

Well, even more items to add to my big list of "Why the hell do we have cops anyway?"

Blah, blah, save your "cop hater" BS for someone who cares. I just don't see why we're wasting tax payer money on these cases, still paying these psychopaths with a badge - even letting them carry guns, when SCOTUS cases have affirmed several times that cops have no duty to protect us individually. Just some amorphous ill defined "protect society" which usually looks like this sort of crap in the wrong hands.

Are all cops bad? No, by no means. I just don't see why we have cops when we can and should (and according to the SCOTUS, have to) protect ourselves.

This is from a fiscal conservative. Getting rid of the cops and everything that goes with them (War on Drugs, excessive force settlements, racial profiling settlements, prison-industrial complex and high recidivism as a result of that) would save us probably billions a year and likely make us safer overall by removing these "legally ordained" criminals from off the street.

Meh, if you people want to rely on these types of people to "protect" you, more power to ya. I don't see the point given the evidence.

I had a bullshiat charge like this when I was in college many years ago. "Obstructing a peace officer". Cop asked me how old I was and I told him I was probably older than he was. (yup, learning experience)

Of course, no charges were pressed. But I did spend the night in the pokey. The endgame with these things are to justify their positions. Without all of these criminals, such as myself and others on this thread, there wouldn't be the need for so many cops, cars, and their farking toys.

They want more money for themselves and their departments. More people locked up equals more money for them. It's really as simple as that. It has very little to do with protecting the public or preserving the law.

R.A.Danny: You do not need to ever show a cop respect. Ever.

I guess you could argue that you don't have to watch for oncoming traffic when crossing the street in a crosswalk either.

You DO have the right of way, after all.

Oakland A's FTW!: rcain: SJ they run it like a police state.

Monterey and Sacramento counties are the same way. I was once arrested and TAZED for resisting arrest. True story.

I got arrested in sacramento county for walking down the street minding my own business, followed by being a little mouthy to the cops who came flying in like I was a well known serial killer on the loose.

I then made the mistake of insisting on getting my phone call, which resulted in getting thrown into a cell with a broken phone, followed by a trip to the drunk tank where the very, very drunk are deposited.

That'll teach me to expect to be treated lawfully by the lawmen.

According to my lawyer, Sacramento county gets reimbursed a fixed rate for every person jailed past midnight, I think its $20-something bucks.

So every night around 10:00 if the jail is a little short, they go round up people by "approaching" and looking for any basic reason to haul them off to the hoosegow.

Frankly, it appears to me that one almost needs to carry at least two voice recorders with them any where they go, a small video recorder would be helpful too. Why? you have got to have evidence that your rights were violated. WIthout proof it is one word against another, and guess who gets believed.

I engage in at least two risky activities, I ride a road bike for exercise, and I have a concealed handgun license. Both of these seem to make me suspect in the eyes of law enforcement officers, as well as much of the uninformed populace.

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: some of you got your wish (new window) last night

A procession of 31 law enforcement and Seattle Fire Department vehicles with lights on followed the unit carrying him to Harborview Medical Center.

/Cut these assholes' budget and maybe they'll stop getting shot

So many farking dirtbags in here...

"Yeah I can mouth off to a cop and they have to take it! HAW HAW"
"Just because I wasn't listening to a lawful order doesn't mean they can detain me! I know my rights."
"Why do we have cops? I've never been the victim of a crime so they must be a waste of taxpayer money."

They guy in the article was CLEARLY not listening to police and REACHED INSIDE HIS CAR in front of a cop. How the FARK do they know why he's reaching? And then he complains because they use NON-LETHAL force to obtain compliance?

FFS, we need more of a police state, not less. Too many hippy dirtbags walking around thinking they own the world.

DIAF, all of you.

I'll just leave this here.

I think a little PAID SUSPENSION will drive the lesson home. If you abuse your power to terrorize the populace, you're going to stay home and collect checks. How's that feel? Huh?

rcain: When I first moved down to the Bay Area about 10 years ago, I was arrested by the SJ police for asking if there was a lot of violence or gang activity because I walked out of a club at 2am on 1st street to be met by a wall of over 20 police officers lined up in the middle of the street, a medivac unit, firetruck and a swat van. My jaw about dropped, I thought I was walking into the middle of a riot or gang war. But nothings going on... hardly anyone on the street isn't in uniform so I walk through that to the next street and see pretty much the same thing. I walk yet another street over and see reduced police presence. I see a cop sitting in his car doing nothing. I approach him and say "Excuse me officer, I just moved here from out of town and I notice an extreme level of police presence. Is it always like this? Is this a violent area? Or is this level of police presence uncommon?" Seriously, there was 3 police officers to every person on the street at the time... it was surreal to see that level of police presence with nothing, and I mean nothing going on. San Jose on a Saturday night is about as dull as dull can be.


This display they put on is not done without reason, but it's not thought out very well either.

They do that quite a lot there. Many of the downtown night clubs are concentrated on that stretch of First Street, a mere block or two from the residential neighborhoods. They aim to keep the drunks and ruffians out of the neighborhood as the clubs shut down. Is the police presence excessive for this situation? Absolutely! and their reaction to your simple question was way out of line!

I had the misfortune to want to go to a downtown SJ club on what happened to be Mardi Gras night. There is no official observance of the day in SJ, so the police were in force pushing a riot line through the streets. I know my way around that area and was able to dodge the front, but I had to go 5 blocks out of my way to get to my destination that I had only parked half a block away from.

I have had three "contacts" with police in my entire life -- all of them taught me that the cops I dealt with were jerks.

Minor traffic related stops. Two of which I maintain were wrong. Happened in three different states. All unpleasant and not necessary.

/Used to respect police.
//Think they are all power hungy jerks now.

If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. You don't mouth off to cops, IRS auditors, people who make your food, fix your cars, etc etc etc. Only difference is that Police Officers can suspend freedom. Basically, if you're in public and you don't know what to say, read the first sentence.

Cryptic Farker: I have had three "contacts" with police in my entire life...Minor traffic related stops. Two of which I maintain were wrong...All unpleasant and not necessary..

Translation: WAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I got caught speeding three times so the cop who pulled me over is a douchebag! Rules don't apply to me!