I remember an episode of Futurama, where they had a tour of "ancient [1990s] New York". When they went by Wall Street, there was a sign with the DOW avg. It would plummet, people would all jump out of windows. It would go up, they would all fly back in.
steelpeg:As stocks fell, investors moved to safer assets like the dollar...
God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!
What??? The Canadian dollar has been doing very well and there are plenty of good investments that trade on the Toronto exchange. All my investments were down today. Though I bought them for the dividends, not the share price.
"crap they don't need" = stuff some douchbags don't approve of me spending my money on. It warms the cockles of my heart that it bugs certain people that I own a 58" plasma TV.
Phil Moskowitz:You engineered this impossible social stratification expecting money to appear out of nowhere in the consumer base. Enjoy your fail.
You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.
Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?
Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
Stock market plummets on the preposterous realization that consumers are saving their money rather than spending it on crap they don't need have to spend more money on gas because it's gone up 30 cents a gallon in three weeks
Opiate of the Lasses:Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from?
The MSM falls into further disgrace. Every night they hound on the message that we are in recovery. They are nothing but a mouthpiece for the state and corporate interests. Its non stop: "Happy days are here again. Join your neighbors at the mall, citizen. Get out and shop. Join the fun!". They must think we are maroons.
jfsimpson:Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.
Even if this is unfortunate, I think it's somewhat true. However, look what income inequality hath wrought. Think back 40 years or so, ignore the racism and other shiat and just look at relative incomes. People could make a decent living, and there were still rich as shiat people living lives the commoners could never dream of. But people just had to have more and more. Lay off more, outsource more, gut businesses to pay CEOs, deregulate, consolidate, bribe, suppress, stifle etc. All so people with 8- and 9- figure fortunes could have ten-figure fortunes. It sucks. The worst part is that people seem just dazed and immune. Back in the day, the guillotine woulda been busy. Sadly the only set of people with the moxie to rise up and gut some muthafarkers are dumber than rocks and busy railing against imagined evils instead of the very real ones manipulating them even as they are sucking away their lifeblood.
tallguywithglasseson:I remember an episode of Futurama, where they had a tour of "ancient [1990s] New York". When they went by Wall Street, there was a sign with the DOW avg. It would plummet, people would all jump out of windows. It would go up, they would all fly back in.
These kinds of headlines remind me of that.
That episode was on last night. They flew back up with jetpacks.
Opiate of the Lasses:In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody. Perhaps some children, the old and the mentally ill. The food bank here in Grand forks has to throw food away. If you're going by the nationammaster.com statistics I would remind you that they use the statistics that the government reports.
Why should there be no billionaires? Life is not fair, the sooner a person realizes that, things makes allot more sense. Some people are poor because they were unlucky. Many are poor because they made bad decisions in life and them being poor is their punishment. These people love to blame everyone but themselves. Some people are rich because they were lucky, others are rich because they made good decisions in life and were rewarded for it.
Opiate of the Lasses:a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue.
Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.
Opiate of the Lasses:Phil Moskowitz: You engineered this impossible social stratification expecting money to appear out of nowhere in the consumer base. Enjoy your fail.
You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.
Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?
Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
/call me socialist if you want, I don't care
the banks aren't loaning out money anyways because of several reasons: 1) it's in their own survivalist interest not to after losing so much to begin with (reminder: over 100 banks have failed this year), 2) it's getting much much much harder for people to get loans, that loaning is no longer an incentive for either the borrower or the loaner, with the exception of gov't mandated exceptions to the rule which does not apply to most people looking to borrow, and 3) there's nothing for the borrowers to invest in
jobs won't come, companies won't earn, employees won't get paid, money won't be spent, on top of all the massive consumer/individual debt you're looking at a system that is running out of oxygen because the only driving force left is simple needs like food/water/shelter and a mild-dose of entertainment
i think inevitably companies will prosper, but that's like saying when spring comes around that if you wait 8 months you won't have to cut the grass
i think the cold-hard fact of the matter is that the government cannot make the economy get better, they can attempt to dangle money in front of it but everytime that has happened it's lead to unsustainable growth
False. One anecdote of a food bank throwing away food in one city does not mean people elsewhere are not starving and dying. Come to inner California sometime.
True. Does not mean we should cheerily accept constant assrape of the many by the few.
Crosshair:Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.
Partly true. The thing is, they didn't HAVE to do jack shiat. Close the loopholes and leave the rate the same. Your statement reflects a casual acceptance of the fact that the rich own the government. If you want nice things, you have to pay for it. You wanna be a first world super power, then taxes are gonna be high, deal. The problem with America in general nowadays (trying not to be mean but mostly the republicans and libertarians), is that no one gives a flying fark about how the worst-off live, so long as it isn't them. Society should be judged not by how well its richest live, but by how well its poorest live.
Does anyone ever really stop and think why large volumes of stock rise and fall quickly?
It sure ain't some daily collective "consumer" epiphany as reported by the Rothchilds AP. More like the the sound of millions trying to get something for nothing being fleeced.
Opiate of the Lasses:Sadly the only set of people with the moxie to rise up and gut some muthafarkers are dumber than rocks and busy railing against imagined evils instead of the very real ones manipulating them even as they are sucking away their lifeblood.
I think what's happened in the last 40 years has actually been good, I think you might notice that adjusted for inflation, real wages are roughly the same as they were back then - except the workforce is over three times bigger thanks to women and other races entering the workforce in larger numbers. I don't know if I would lament this as a failure. The problem I think is that there's a far wider range of goods and services available and a MUCH wider availability of credit - this means people buy things they can't afford which tends to drive prices up.
But what I really like is your comment above. I fully agree with you here but would just go one step further - I would say that this is capitalism's greatest strength, that nearly anyone with the will and drive to succeed can; the ones who regularly fail tend to lack this will and drive. So your chance of a revolution shrinks dramatically.
steelpeg
2009-10-30 05:59:53 PM
God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!
An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name
2009-10-30 06:06:05 PM
Snarfangel
2009-10-30 06:34:28 PM
God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!
As long as you didn't laugh off your a$$et$, you should be fine.
/$la$hie$!
tallguywithglasseson
2009-10-30 06:56:26 PM
These kinds of headlines remind me of that.
Crosshair
2009-10-30 07:43:48 PM
God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!
What??? The Canadian dollar has been doing very well and there are plenty of good investments that trade on the Toronto exchange. All my investments were down today. Though I bought them for the dividends, not the share price.
BKITU
2009-10-30 07:50:48 PM
Phil Moskowitz
2009-10-30 08:09:14 PM
You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.
jjorsett
2009-10-30 08:21:16 PM
/And a baby seal coat
Opiate of the Lasses
2009-10-30 08:22:01 PM
You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.
Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?
Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
/call me socialist if you want, I don't care
CornFedIowan
2009-10-30 08:26:28 PM
are saving their money rather than spending it on crap they don't needhave to spend more money on gas because it's gone up 30 cents a gallon in three weeksFTFY
jfsimpson
2009-10-30 08:27:05 PM
I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.
chicagogasman
2009-10-30 08:30:50 PM
I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.
jfsimpson: Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.
Very true. CIrcle of life my Ann Randian brother would say...
GoodasGold
2009-10-30 08:35:05 PM
The MSM falls into further disgrace. Every night they hound on the message that we are in recovery. They are nothing but a mouthpiece for the state and corporate interests. Its non stop: "Happy days are here again. Join your neighbors at the mall, citizen. Get out and shop. Join the fun!". They must think we are maroons.
Opiate of the Lasses
2009-10-30 08:37:27 PM
I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.
Even if this is unfortunate, I think it's somewhat true. However, look what income inequality hath wrought. Think back 40 years or so, ignore the racism and other shiat and just look at relative incomes. People could make a decent living, and there were still rich as shiat people living lives the commoners could never dream of. But people just had to have more and more. Lay off more, outsource more, gut businesses to pay CEOs, deregulate, consolidate, bribe, suppress, stifle etc. All so people with 8- and 9- figure fortunes could have ten-figure fortunes. It sucks. The worst part is that people seem just dazed and immune. Back in the day, the guillotine woulda been busy. Sadly the only set of people with the moxie to rise up and gut some muthafarkers are dumber than rocks and busy railing against imagined evils instead of the very real ones manipulating them even as they are sucking away their lifeblood.
SurahAhriman
2009-10-30 08:39:23 PM
These kinds of headlines remind me of that.
That episode was on last night. They flew back up with jetpacks.
GaryPDX
2009-10-30 08:42:15 PM
/oh wait
GaryPDX
2009-10-30 08:46:12 PM
holy crap.
Crosshair
2009-10-30 08:51:00 PM
Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody. Perhaps some children, the old and the mentally ill. The food bank here in Grand forks has to throw food away. If you're going by the nationammaster.com statistics I would remind you that they use the statistics that the government reports.
Why should there be no billionaires? Life is not fair, the sooner a person realizes that, things makes allot more sense. Some people are poor because they were unlucky. Many are poor because they made bad decisions in life and them being poor is their punishment. These people love to blame everyone but themselves. Some people are rich because they were lucky, others are rich because they made good decisions in life and were rewarded for it.
Opiate of the Lasses: a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue.
Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.
AdamK
2009-10-30 08:53:35 PM
You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.
Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?
Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.
/call me socialist if you want, I don't care
the banks aren't loaning out money anyways because of several reasons: 1) it's in their own survivalist interest not to after losing so much to begin with (reminder: over 100 banks have failed this year), 2) it's getting much much much harder for people to get loans, that loaning is no longer an incentive for either the borrower or the loaner, with the exception of gov't mandated exceptions to the rule which does not apply to most people looking to borrow, and 3) there's nothing for the borrowers to invest in
jobs won't come, companies won't earn, employees won't get paid, money won't be spent, on top of all the massive consumer/individual debt you're looking at a system that is running out of oxygen because the only driving force left is simple needs like food/water/shelter and a mild-dose of entertainment
i think inevitably companies will prosper, but that's like saying when spring comes around that if you wait 8 months you won't have to cut the grass
i think the cold-hard fact of the matter is that the government cannot make the economy get better, they can attempt to dangle money in front of it but everytime that has happened it's lead to unsustainable growth
Opiate of the Lasses
2009-10-30 09:02:14 PM
False. One anecdote of a food bank throwing away food in one city does not mean people elsewhere are not starving and dying. Come to inner California sometime.
Crosshair: Life is not fair
True. Does not mean we should cheerily accept constant assrape of the many by the few.
Crosshair: Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.
Partly true. The thing is, they didn't HAVE to do jack shiat. Close the loopholes and leave the rate the same. Your statement reflects a casual acceptance of the fact that the rich own the government. If you want nice things, you have to pay for it. You wanna be a first world super power, then taxes are gonna be high, deal. The problem with America in general nowadays (trying not to be mean but mostly the republicans and libertarians), is that no one gives a flying fark about how the worst-off live, so long as it isn't them. Society should be judged not by how well its richest live, but by how well its poorest live.
alsih2o
2009-10-30 09:14:39 PM
Fark Me To Tears
2009-10-30 09:24:45 PM
"Why did you buy this?"
"Because it was on sale."
"But we don't use this... And we certainly we certainly don't need it."
(*exasperated look and pissy tone*) "I said it was on sale!"
/God, help me...
//Please...
sparkmysmeg
2009-10-30 09:24:58 PM
It sure ain't some daily collective "consumer" epiphany as reported by the Rothchilds AP. More like the the sound of millions trying to get something for nothing being fleeced.
highwayrun
2009-10-30 09:38:42 PM
"Why did you buy this?"
"Because it was on sale."
"But we don't use this... And we certainly we certainly don't need it."
(*exasperated look and pissy tone*) "I said it was on sale!"
/God, help me...
//Please...
Why did you marry this person?
jfsimpson
2009-10-30 09:41:46 PM
I think what's happened in the last 40 years has actually been good, I think you might notice that adjusted for inflation, real wages are roughly the same as they were back then - except the workforce is over three times bigger thanks to women and other races entering the workforce in larger numbers. I don't know if I would lament this as a failure. The problem I think is that there's a far wider range of goods and services available and a MUCH wider availability of credit - this means people buy things they can't afford which tends to drive prices up.
But what I really like is your comment above. I fully agree with you here but would just go one step further - I would say that this is capitalism's greatest strength, that nearly anyone with the will and drive to succeed can; the ones who regularly fail tend to lack this will and drive. So your chance of a revolution shrinks dramatically.