As stocks fell, investors moved to safer assets like the dollar...

God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!

Not spending money on crap you don't need is un-American and Obama wont like it!

steelpeg: As stocks fell, investors moved to safer assets like the dollar...

God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!

As long as you didn't laugh off your a$$et$, you should be fine.

/$la$hie$!

I remember an episode of Futurama, where they had a tour of "ancient [1990s] New York". When they went by Wall Street, there was a sign with the DOW avg. It would plummet, people would all jump out of windows. It would go up, they would all fly back in.

These kinds of headlines remind me of that.

steelpeg: As stocks fell, investors moved to safer assets like the dollar...

God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!

What??? The Canadian dollar has been doing very well and there are plenty of good investments that trade on the Toronto exchange. All my investments were down today. Though I bought them for the dividends, not the share price.

Crosshair: The Canadian dollar has been doing very well and there are plenty of good investments that trade on the Toronto exchange.

You engineered this impossible social stratification expecting money to appear out of nowhere in the consumer base. Enjoy your fail.

You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.

"crap they don't need" = stuff some douchbags don't approve of me spending my money on. It warms the cockles of my heart that it bugs certain people that I own a 58" plasma TV.

/And a baby seal coat

Phil Moskowitz: You engineered this impossible social stratification expecting money to appear out of nowhere in the consumer base. Enjoy your fail.

You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.

Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?

Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

/call me socialist if you want, I don't care

Stock market plummets on the preposterous realization that consumers are saving their money rather than spending it on crap they don't need have to spend more money on gas because it's gone up 30 cents a gallon in three weeks

FTFY

Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.

jfsimpson: Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.

jfsimpson: Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.

Very true. CIrcle of life my Ann Randian brother would say...

Opiate of the Lasses: Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from?


The MSM falls into further disgrace. Every night they hound on the message that we are in recovery. They are nothing but a mouthpiece for the state and corporate interests. Its non stop: "Happy days are here again. Join your neighbors at the mall, citizen. Get out and shop. Join the fun!". They must think we are maroons.

jfsimpson: Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

I don't think you can ever have a society where people don't starve and die.

Even if this is unfortunate, I think it's somewhat true. However, look what income inequality hath wrought. Think back 40 years or so, ignore the racism and other shiat and just look at relative incomes. People could make a decent living, and there were still rich as shiat people living lives the commoners could never dream of. But people just had to have more and more. Lay off more, outsource more, gut businesses to pay CEOs, deregulate, consolidate, bribe, suppress, stifle etc. All so people with 8- and 9- figure fortunes could have ten-figure fortunes. It sucks. The worst part is that people seem just dazed and immune. Back in the day, the guillotine woulda been busy. Sadly the only set of people with the moxie to rise up and gut some muthafarkers are dumber than rocks and busy railing against imagined evils instead of the very real ones manipulating them even as they are sucking away their lifeblood.

tallguywithglasseson: I remember an episode of Futurama, where they had a tour of "ancient [1990s] New York". When they went by Wall Street, there was a sign with the DOW avg. It would plummet, people would all jump out of windows. It would go up, they would all fly back in.

These kinds of headlines remind me of that.

That episode was on last night. They flew back up with jetpacks.

10000 oh yeah!!!

/oh wait

DJIA 9,712.73 -249.85 -2.51%

holy crap.

Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody. Perhaps some children, the old and the mentally ill. The food bank here in Grand forks has to throw food away. If you're going by the nationammaster.com statistics I would remind you that they use the statistics that the government reports.

Why should there be no billionaires? Life is not fair, the sooner a person realizes that, things makes allot more sense. Some people are poor because they were unlucky. Many are poor because they made bad decisions in life and them being poor is their punishment. These people love to blame everyone but themselves. Some people are rich because they were lucky, others are rich because they made good decisions in life and were rewarded for it.

Opiate of the Lasses: a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue.

Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.

Opiate of the Lasses: Phil Moskowitz: You engineered this impossible social stratification expecting money to appear out of nowhere in the consumer base. Enjoy your fail.

You can't have downward pressure on wages, increasing cost of living rising consistently and expect anyone to buy anything.

Exactly. Party's over pretty much. I don't know what the hell people are basing the idea that there's going to be any kind of a recovery on. Where's the money gonna come from? To combat flat/falling real wages, people sucked all the money out of their houses and credit cards, and now there's no more because the rich farks won't eat the losses on their bad investments. The government should have bailed out the consumers instead of the bank, just wiped the slate clean, and watch demand surge. The premise of TARP was such incredible FAIL. Even if the banks would have taken the govt cash and lent it instead of using it to shore up their corpse-like balance sheets, why in the bloody hell did govt assume that consumers wanted to take on further debt?

Plus the US doesn't MAKE anything anymore. Consumer spending and selling debt to foreigners are a house of cards. The only things that will result in any economic growth are a foreign war, or a return to the 91% top marginal tax rate, which is long overdue. In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

/call me socialist if you want, I don't care

the banks aren't loaning out money anyways because of several reasons: 1) it's in their own survivalist interest not to after losing so much to begin with (reminder: over 100 banks have failed this year), 2) it's getting much much much harder for people to get loans, that loaning is no longer an incentive for either the borrower or the loaner, with the exception of gov't mandated exceptions to the rule which does not apply to most people looking to borrow, and 3) there's nothing for the borrowers to invest in

jobs won't come, companies won't earn, employees won't get paid, money won't be spent, on top of all the massive consumer/individual debt you're looking at a system that is running out of oxygen because the only driving force left is simple needs like food/water/shelter and a mild-dose of entertainment

i think inevitably companies will prosper, but that's like saying when spring comes around that if you wait 8 months you won't have to cut the grass

i think the cold-hard fact of the matter is that the government cannot make the economy get better, they can attempt to dangle money in front of it but everytime that has happened it's lead to unsustainable growth

Crosshair: Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody.

False. One anecdote of a food bank throwing away food in one city does not mean people elsewhere are not starving and dying. Come to inner California sometime.

Crosshair: Life is not fair

True. Does not mean we should cheerily accept constant assrape of the many by the few.

Crosshair: Here is a nasty little secret. Nobody paid those rates. The tax code was full of loopholes at the time that everybody, even those in the middle class, exploited them. The reason they dropped the rate so sharply was because they closed up those holes and had to drop the tax rate as a result.

Partly true. The thing is, they didn't HAVE to do jack shiat. Close the loopholes and leave the rate the same. Your statement reflects a casual acceptance of the fact that the rich own the government. If you want nice things, you have to pay for it. You wanna be a first world super power, then taxes are gonna be high, deal. The problem with America in general nowadays (trying not to be mean but mostly the republicans and libertarians), is that no one gives a flying fark about how the worst-off live, so long as it isn't them. Society should be judged not by how well its richest live, but by how well its poorest live.

As a consumer being refused because my honors degree is not good enough for an $8 an hour job I am seeing lots of Mad Max in our future.

Apparently, subby hasn't seen my wife shopping.

"Why did you buy this?"

"Because it was on sale."

"But we don't use this... And we certainly we certainly don't need it."

(*exasperated look and pissy tone*) "I said it was on sale!"

/God, help me...
//Please...

Does anyone ever really stop and think why large volumes of stock rise and fall quickly?

It sure ain't some daily collective "consumer" epiphany as reported by the Rothchilds AP. More like the the sound of millions trying to get something for nothing being fleeced.

Fark Me To Tears: Apparently, subby hasn't seen my wife shopping.

"Why did you buy this?"

"Because it was on sale."

"But we don't use this... And we certainly we certainly don't need it."

(*exasperated look and pissy tone*) "I said it was on sale!"

/God, help me...
//Please...

Why did you marry this person?

Opiate of the Lasses: Sadly the only set of people with the moxie to rise up and gut some muthafarkers are dumber than rocks and busy railing against imagined evils instead of the very real ones manipulating them even as they are sucking away their lifeblood.

I think what's happened in the last 40 years has actually been good, I think you might notice that adjusted for inflation, real wages are roughly the same as they were back then - except the workforce is over three times bigger thanks to women and other races entering the workforce in larger numbers. I don't know if I would lament this as a failure. The problem I think is that there's a far wider range of goods and services available and a MUCH wider availability of credit - this means people buy things they can't afford which tends to drive prices up.

But what I really like is your comment above. I fully agree with you here but would just go one step further - I would say that this is capitalism's greatest strength, that nearly anyone with the will and drive to succeed can; the ones who regularly fail tend to lack this will and drive. So your chance of a revolution shrinks dramatically.

Gosh, back when credit card rates were 7 or 8 percent, people could go out and buy a new TV or a new refrigerator. Now, with credit cards at 30 percent and limits cut to the bone, people aren't going to buy anything on credit.

Too bad.

Well, housing prices and rent still need to come down a ton too. Here in Dallas they keep building luxury apartments that cost upwards of $1000 for a 400sqft studio apt. Who the fark can afford to live there? Better question, why do they keep building them when there are hundred of other empty overpriced "luxury" apts?

Crosshair: Opiate of the Lasses: In no society should there exist such a thing as a billionaire while people starve and die.

Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody. Perhaps some children, the old and the mentally ill. The food bank here in Grand forks has to throw food away. If you're going by the nationammaster.com statistics I would remind you that they use the statistics that the government reports.


It's always tricky to keep enough food on hand until the first frost of August wipes any homeless people dumb enough to seek shelter in the middle of a barren arctic tundra. You always end up overshooting a bit.

BKITU: i139.photobucket.com

That was a classic thread...

"Consumer spending" is just happy-talk for "The poorest 99% handing more money over to the richest 1%". So the fact that that is happening less should be comforting to us normal 99%ers.

GaryPDX: DJIA 9,712.73 -249.85 -2.51%

holy crap.

And it was up 2% yesterday. Were you saying 'holy crap' then?

Technically, October ended as the 4th straight calendar month of DJIA gains. But, yeah, it's a little volatile right now.

stiletto_the_wise: "Consumer spending" is just happy-talk for "The poorest 99% handing more money over to the richest 1%". So the fact that that is happening less should be comforting to us normal 99%ers.

Shut up and buy your toilet paper. You'll buy it from those evil capitalists or pay taxes for government issued. The difference is one has lower prices, the other forces you by law and police.

Lawnchair: GaryPDX: DJIA 9,712.73 -249.85 -2.51%

holy crap.

And it was up 2% yesterday. Were you saying 'holy crap' then?

Technically, October ended as the 4th straight calendar month of DJIA gains. But, yeah, it's a little volatile right now.

It's volatile because it's speculators playing it. It has no solid underlying stability. In fact, the whole game has changed. People are either sitting on the sideline because of "uncertainty" or hunkering down. The economy isn't getting better by the old standards, it's getting worse, shrinking.

Fark Me To Tears: Apparently, subby hasn't seen my wife shopping.

"Why did you buy this?"

"Because it was on sale."...etc.

One of my favorite anecdotes is "Elephants two for a quarter is a good deal - if you have a quarter and if you need elephants." I don't know where I got it. I heard it somewhere years ago. It's very simple, but very true.

Wait a minute... the stock market goes up AND down?!

Wall street is going to be trading in food stamps soon if they keep this crap up.

9 more banks failed today...

There will be growth in the Spring.

Fuggin Bizzy: Fark Me To Tears: Apparently, subby hasn't seen my wife shopping.

"Why did you buy this?"

"Because it was on sale."...etc.

One of my favorite anecdotes is "Elephants two for a quarter is a good deal - if you have a quarter and if you need elephants." I don't know where I got it. I heard it somewhere years ago. It's very simple, but very true.

My favorite: "Buy one get one free sounds great until you realize you didn't need even one."

GaryPDX: Lawnchair: GaryPDX: DJIA 9,712.73 -249.85 -2.51%

holy crap.

And it was up 2% yesterday. Were you saying 'holy crap' then?

Technically, October ended as the 4th straight calendar month of DJIA gains. But, yeah, it's a little volatile right now.

It's volatile because it's speculators playing it. It has no solid underlying stability. In fact, the whole game has changed. People are either sitting on the sideline because of "uncertainty" or hunkering down. The economy isn't getting better by the old standards, it's getting worse, shrinking.

It's just as volatile thanks to a good 10+ years of significant growth based on nothing, worse than that really but 'nothing' is less outright offensive. And when that realization of everything that was assbackwards was truly upside down and inside out (truly kind of macabre) finally struck home, whoopsie, people lost their collective shiat.

People are less panicky now. In the same way that a guy with a nasty hang over is less drunk.

Patience, when people feel their own debt is low enough (ie, gone or near enough to it) then the spending will ramp up.

steelpeg: As stocks fell, investors moved to safer assets like the dollar...

God I laughed my a$$ off on that one!!

As more debt implodes it means there are fewer dollars around. As dollars disappear it makes the dollars left worth more. If the crisis continues and debt to GDP ratio continues to fall the dollar will strengthen.

GaryPDX: stiletto_the_wise: "Consumer spending" is just happy-talk for "The poorest 99% handing more money over to the richest 1%". So the fact that that is happening less should be comforting to us normal 99%ers.

Shut up and buy your toilet paper. You'll buy it from those evil capitalists or pay taxes for government issued. The difference is one has lower prices, the other forces you by law and police.

Your crazy seems more crazy lately. Are the pundits getting to you?

/when you finally cross the line, we'll all be happy you've isolated yourself

Cinaed: GaryPDX: Lawnchair: GaryPDX: DJIA 9,712.73 -249.85 -2.51%

holy crap.

And it was up 2% yesterday. Were you saying 'holy crap' then?

Technically, October ended as the 4th straight calendar month of DJIA gains. But, yeah, it's a little volatile right now.

It's volatile because it's speculators playing it. It has no solid underlying stability. In fact, the whole game has changed. People are either sitting on the sideline because of "uncertainty" or hunkering down. The economy isn't getting better by the old standards, it's getting worse, shrinking.

It's just as volatile thanks to a good 10+ years of significant growth based on nothing, worse than that really but 'nothing' is less outright offensive. And when that realization of everything that was assbackwards was truly upside down and inside out (truly kind of macabre) finally struck home, whoopsie, people lost their collective shiat.

People are less panicky now. In the same way that a guy with a nasty hang over is less drunk.

Patience, when people feel their own debt is low enough (ie, gone or near enough to it) then the spending will ramp up.

Don't waste your time. When the economy is fully recovered, he'll just move on to something else. It's what he does.

alsih2o: As a consumer being refused because my honors degree is not good enough for an $8 an hour job I am seeing lots of Mad Max in our future.

I'm down with that. I'll have more fun serving Lord Humungus than working for the p*ssant Stanford MBA who laid me off...

Opiate of the Lasses: Crosshair: Life is not fair

True. Does not mean we should cheerily accept constant assrape of the many by the few.

Life is not fair - that's why the rich get taxed more.

Ta da!

listening to cbs news radio the other day they said that 20 years ago the savings rate was 10%. now we stand at 3-5%(compared to pretty much 0 the last few years). we shouldn't be celebrating a small victory of saving a little more money when we're still well short of what we're capable of

bhcompy: listening to cbs news radio the other day they said that 20 years ago the savings rate was 10%. now we stand at 3-5%(compared to pretty much 0 the last few years). we shouldn't be celebrating a small victory of saving a little more money when we're still well short of what we're capable of

Racist!

WHy do you hate our President because he's black!

Crosshair: Who honestly starves in the US? Nobody.

You joke, yes?

They're barely saving it either. The US needs more productivity. Unless people get cracking doing anything productive we'll continue to see a slide.

We're in a phase of our society where people expect things just to be done. The world doesn't work like that.

Mrbogey: They're barely saving it either. The US needs more productivity. Unless people get cracking doing anything productive we'll continue to see a slide.

We're in a phase of our society where people expect things just to be done. The world doesn't work like that.

Wut?

We can't all be TV stars and musicians?

WTF!