Bauer: they would need lead shielding three feet thick to survive leaving the earths' protective barrier.

From the wikipedia article that you linked:

A satellite shielded by 3 mm of aluminium in an elliptic orbit passing through the radiation belt will receive about 2,500 rem (25 Sv) per year. Almost all radiation will be received while passing the inner belt.

I don't recall ever reading a paper from any scientific journal (or a real scientist) claiming that traversing the Belts would require enormous amounts of lead shielding. And if it were the case, the Soviets would have been all over that, and would have been the first to scream fraud. The existence of the Van Allen Belts has been known since the Fifties.

frankmanhog: Bauer: unless you understand what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of...and what effect they have on the earth and human tissue...you have no clue.

you cannot change the laws of physics.

-we never left low earth orbit.



If you knew anything about the Van Allen radiation belts, you'd know that the majority of the radiation can be stopped with a fairly thin sheet of plastic. Don't let facts stop your wild conspiracy fantasy fulfillment, though.

The only thing I know about Van Allen is that they sucked after David Lee Roth left.

rhiannon: Uh-oh, Bauer's back at it again.

It was just a matter of time...

A well written piece concerning the Van Allen Belt and the Apollo missions (new window).

Rockstone: Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

The race was to land a man on the moon.

We won.

Anyone play Buzz Aldrin's Race into space?

Yes, that game is impossible. You ever land on the moon before 1969 without cheating?

Bauer seems pretty clueless for someone who claims to know more about radiation than the rest of us.

News flash: High energy protons are easy as hell to shield. A thin layer of plastic will do the trick. Brief exposure to light levels of radiation isn't deadly.

incendi: Smarshmallow: Damn right we did, and it was a significant fact.

And the significance of that fact swings the other way when we're reduced to bumming rides off the Russians.

What's wrong with bumming rides? 50 million per launch is a lot cheaper then keeping the shuttle program going with its 400 to 600 million per launch. That's just counting the launch, we're not even talking about the shuttle program it self.

Having money to spend on a replacement is kind of the way you get anywhere with the replacement you know.

Space_Poet: If anyone is interested there is a complete re-enactment of the 1st moon shot/landing 40 years ago to the date happening on this site: WeChooseTheMoon (new window) There is still about 26 hours till the actual landing. They have tons of photos, video, the entire radio feed playing in real time (synched up to 40 years ago to the minute), and more. Click on the pop-up player for the audio feed, I've been listening to it for hours at a time in the background, really freaking cool.

Thanks. That one's better than the NASA one I've been listening too. I've been following along with the transcripts. I'm hoping to hell that they do the same with Apollo 13, because in all honesty the majority of the 11 mission audio is pretty damn boring. 13 would be pretty cool.

bbfreak: Rockstone: Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

The race was to land a man on the moon.

We won.

Anyone play Buzz Aldrin's Race into space?

Yes, that game is impossible. You ever land on the moon before 1969 without cheating?

Yes.

Once.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.


Sounds more like they won the first 75 meters of a hundred-meter sprint. No medals for that.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

They won eh? I don't see it that way. The goal wasn't so much to land on the moon but show ones technological superiority and the US did that in spades. The Russians tried till 1972 to get their moon rocket working, it just wouldn't and if you don't believe they lost I don't know what to tell you.

The Soviets could never A: Successfully land on Mars (Something only the folks that JPL have done). B: Never had consistent success. In many cases its like they just blasted stuff up there and hoped it stick. While the US meanwhile consistency in launch probes and men into orbit gradually improved over time.

Then once the Soviet Union collapsed, the Russians fell even further behind. Their first planetary probe being as miserable failure, and they haven't done science beyond earth since the Soviet Union. Though they do have an upcoming mission with the Chinese this fall.

NASA has put more humans into space, more hardware into space, more successful missions then anyone else and nobody is even close to the United States capability. Not even Russia, and they're the closest.

Rockstone: bbfreak: Rockstone: Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

The race was to land a man on the moon.

We won.

Anyone play Buzz Aldrin's Race into space?

Yes, that game is impossible. You ever land on the moon before 1969 without cheating?

Yes.

Once.

Impressive. I wish there were more games like that, and not horribly impossible to boot. :P Oh and anyone who doesn't know. I'm not biatching because the game was hard, I'm biatching because it was impossible. Even when you did everything right, things went to shiat or at the very least you wouldn't make it to the moon before or during 1969.

The long list above carefully omits the entire Gemini program, so here's a short list of its firsts:

Gemini V
August 21-29, 1965
First use of fuel cells for electrical power.

Gemini VII
December 04-18, 1965
13 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes 1 seconds (this was a record at the time) Primary objective was to determine whether humans could live in space for 14 days.

Gemini VI-A
December 15-16, 1965
First space rendezvous accomplished with Gemini VII, station-keeping for over five hours at distances from 0.3 to 90 m (1 to 295 ft).

Gemini VIII
March 16, 1966
Accomplished first docking with another space vehicle, an unmanned Agena stage.

Gemini IX-A
June 03-06, 1966
Three different types of
rendezvous, two hours of EVA. First EVA to actually do something, not just float in space.

Gemini XI
September 12-15, 1966
Manned spaceflight record altitude, 1,189.3 km (739.2 mi) reached using Agena propulsion system after first orbit rendezvous and docking. (Obviously record broken later by Apollo 8.)

I should have added:

First two-man crew in a spacecraft actually designed to carry two.
First three-man crew in a spacecraft actually designed to carry three.

The Voskhod was a Vostok with most of the equipment ripped out so they could cram extra guys in. A dangerous publicity stunt. But hey, it fooled you, right?

Broadside: TheDirtyNacho: Oh, I agree. Space is too complicated and damned expensive for any one nation to get far into. It'll take the efforts of the whole world cooperating to get much farther. All the more reason to continue manned space programs.

You know, on second thought, I think it more likely that the first person on Mars won't plant a American, Russian, or Chinese flag. No, it'll be a corporate logo for Google Spacecorp or something like that.


Unlikely. Private rockets and spacecraft haven't even achieved LEO with a human on board. Do you even realize the hurdles to a mission to Mars? Especially a two way trip with humans on board?

Just because its been done on some level, doesn't mean its easy. Assuming you survive the trip to Mars in the first place or don't go stir crazy.

Technology isn't all mighty and powerful, and capability is only half the battle. Have you ever considered that the first mission to Mars will be a horrible failure?

There is certainly the possibly, like I said in another thread, at the least the moon landing was a calculated risk. You could go there, and come back fairly quickly if you had any problems (as shown by Apollo 13).

On a Mars landing, even if you do everything right things could go to hell easily enough. Remember that crazy astronaut? I'm sure her psyche report said she was perfectly sane.

My goodness,still trying to perpetuate the fairytale of the US moon landing?
Oswald killing JFK ?
The virgin Mary popping Jebus?
The earth is flat?
The Easter bunny?

I figure the 1972 Olympic basketball gold medal would have made up for it.

40 year grudge: That works.

Warchild: They'll get over it

I came in here to say this, and:

STFU, Russia, and GBTW...

And, also:

Tough shiat...now, quit your farking whining. We beat you, fair and square.

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
Helped push along the technology but not a space achievement, no points

# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
Win, +2. USSR gets this one because its a first. However the first U.S. Satellite did more than just beep, Explorer 1 studied cosmic rays effect on the Earth and did a lot to dispell the boogieman myth of the Van Allen belt and that it might kill astro/cosmo-nauts.

# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
Laika didn't make it back alive and it really wasnt on the Soviets list of goals, -1


# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
Win, +1

# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
Win, +1

# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
near only counts in hand-grenades and horse shoes, lunar orbit would have counted, no points. Solar orbit does count +1

# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
There have been theories that Luna 2 was to orbit the moon but went very very wrong, still +1

# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
+1

# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
The primary goal here was human spaceflight and exploration, returning living beings still living should have been higher on the priority list, no points.

# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
+1

# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
+2, extra points for being the first space craft to be able to make mid course corrections, very important to human spaceflight

# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
+5

# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
no points, interesting but did little to advance the program

# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
+2

# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6

no points, interesting but did little to advance the program

# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
+1

# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
+10

# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
advanced the program no more than Venera or Marsnik did. no points

# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
+5, they could do this but they couldn't get a man there?

# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
+2

# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
Shows differing priorities. The US was all about manned spaceflight, the USSR was happy to focus on other things.

# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5
+5


US Achievements
1969: The brass ring. Man walked on the freaking moon, nuf said.
+1000

1970: Apollo 13
+1, Some called it a failure but those astronauts made it back alive, thats a success. If those were Russians in that capsule and behind those ground controllers, would they have made it back? We'll never know but the Americans proved that they could solve tough engineering problems on the fly.

1972: Pioneer 10, first probe to Jupiter
+1

1982: first reusable spacecraft
+100, the Buran was a dismal failure. flew only once, unmanned, and it was 7 years after STS-1. The one and only vehicle produced was destroyed in a building collapse.

1990: the Hubble Space Telescope
+50, first optical telescope outside of earths atmosphere. So much science has come out of this. Already kept in service about twice as long as originally planned.

1995: GPS
+100, you're welcome world. Yeah it's an Air Force project but this is a jingoistic list so it stays.

1996: Pathfinder
+1 first mobile probe to land on another planet

USSR: 34
USA: 1152

Almost forgot 2 of the USSR's achievements


1961: first astro/cosmo-nauts to die in a launch

1972: first astro/cosmo-nauts to die in space

The US followed shortly with the Apollo 1 tragedy killing 3 astronauts and has lost a total of 14 in shuttle accidents but the USSR is still the only program to lose an astro/cosmo-naut in space.

Bauer,
I see that you are the man with all the answers. Something's been bothering me about that whole "Van Allen" thing and maybe you can help me sort it out.
All of the astronauts that NASA claims to have sent through the Van Allen belt now have cataracts.
What kind of radiation were they exposed to to create that effect, a hopped-up x-ray machine or some nuclear waste? I'm thinkin' an x-ray machine...

itsfullofstars: Laika didn't make it back alive and it really wasnt on the Soviets list of goals, -1

itsfullofstars: The primary goal here was human spaceflight and exploration, returning living beings still living should have been higher on the priority list, no points.

I have to disagree, I think these were some of the more important developments in space exploration. The viability of living in space was proved with Laika, and Belka and Strelka demonstrated that a living thing could also survive re-entry. In hindsight that seems pretty obvious, but it needed to be done, especially after they euthanized Laika.

Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?

simpsonfan: Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?

Did you miss it?

itsfullofstars:...1982: first reusable spacecraft
+100, the Buran was a dismal failure. flew only once, unmanned, and it was 7 years after STS-1. The one and only vehicle produced was destroyed in a building collapse.

You're welcome

simpsonfan: Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?

There were reports that they were considering pulling it out of retirement before it was destroyed. It's lifter could put twice the tonnage into LEO than the Shuttle could. Buran was interesting, but it didn't have any real use, sadly.

Dr. Mojo PhD:
# 1969: First docking between two manned ....

GIS for docking turned up interesting results.

bown: Dr. Mojo PhD:
# 1969: First docking between two manned ....

GIS for docking turned up interesting results.

Doesn't it though? Don't search for navigation terms like "docking" or "sounding" with safe search off.

You would be pissed, too, if someone broke your attempt at perfect record.

simpsonfan: Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?

At one time it (or was it a test vehicle for it?) was on Ebay...

/yeah, it didn't fare well in the hanger collapse...

simpsonfan: Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?



You can make out the cockpit window there at the bottom.

bbfreak: Rockstone: bbfreak: Rockstone: Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

The race was to land a man on the moon.

We won.

Anyone play Buzz Aldrin's Race into space?

Yes, that game is impossible. You ever land on the moon before 1969 without cheating?

Yes.

Once.

Impressive. I wish there were more games like that, and not horribly impossible to boot. :P Oh and anyone who doesn't know. I'm not biatching because the game was hard, I'm biatching because it was impossible. Even when you did everything right, things went to shiat or at the very least you wouldn't make it to the moon before or during 1969.

http://www.raceintospace.org/

TADA! Freeware Version!

Btw- http://www.raceintospace.org/ is the free, windows compatible version of the game.

Bestbank Tiger: Dr. Mojo PhD: They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile

The Soviet Union didn't even exist until 1917, well after the automobile.

Analogies just sort of go right over your head, don't they?

belowner: If you view the whole thing as a game, then we won. The Russians led the with the offensive line for first three quarters, then we came in with a game winning field goal, banged the homecoming queen, and pissed on the mascot just because we could.

Depends what you consider victory. From my standpoint, flashy propaganda is irrelevant. It was the Soviets who took all the major, actual steps (including putting something down on a heavenly body) before the United States. Again, from my point of view, they did all the major work. Anybody biatching about failures and whatever -- not relevant. It may have been more elegant to do it with efficiency or grace, but that's not the purpose or the metric.

I'm not as impressed by the moon landings as most people. In terms of successes and test cases it proved nothing that couldn't already be demonstrated by deduction from existing test cases. In terms of propaganda, on the other hand, great success, equal to the fear Sputnik caused.

But it's not a game. It's just a steady progression. Everything the Russians and NASA did are just steps for further exploration. The good part about our uneasy truce in the Cold War is that we can share the learned information so we don't turn into a world of farking retards like Bauer.

Indeed. Never much understood the hoaxers. The viability of this has long since been proven. But hey, some people just want to be retarded.

When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the surface of the moon, it was a first for the Soviet Union - the first time the U.S. had beaten the U.S.S.R in the space race.

These guys disagree. (new window)

/U.S. Americans are the only ones to have left Earth orbit
//like, such as

bullwinkl: HowlingFrog: Cue the Old Negro Space Program.

I'm a huge Ken Burns fan...so that makes me howl with laughter every time I watch it...

Link (new window)

Great parody. I laugh each time I watch it.

simpsonfan: Whatever happened with that copy of the Space Shuttle they built?



"Why build one when you can have two at twice the price?"

Depends what you consider victory. From my standpoint, flashy propaganda is irrelevant. It was the Soviets who took all the major, actual steps (including putting something down on a heavenly body) before the United States. Again, from my point of view, they did all the major work.

A lot of what the Soviets did WAS flashy propaganda compared to the technical things that NASA did. The Soviets did do a lot of amazing things, but you seriously underestimate what the U.S.' Nazi scientists did.

Technical firsts for the Soviets were great, but NASA's missions laid a lot more scientific foundation & Apollo 11 was the culmination.

The things that came together for the Moon missions were really that impressive.

bown: Dr. Mojo PhD:
# 1969: First docking between two manned ....

GIS for docking turned up interesting results.



Thank you for not sharing.

No, no, really...*thank you*...

Dr. Mojo PhD: Anybody biatching about failures and whatever -- not relevant. It may have been more elegant to do it with efficiency or grace, but that's not the purpose or the metric.

There's a reason why the Soviets never made it to the moon. What you're defending as "progress" is pretty much that reason. The Soviets weren't progressing their technology with good experimentation. Their rush to get to the moon was doomed from the start. And interesting how you belittle the accomplishments of the US when the Soviets themselves could not even do it.

Oh...the USSR duct taped a dog into an ICBM...that's progress.

Mrbogey: Dr. Mojo PhD: Anybody biatching about failures and whatever -- not relevant. It may have been more elegant to do it with efficiency or grace, but that's not the purpose or the metric.

There's a reason why the Soviets never made it to the moon. What you're defending as "progress" is pretty much that reason. The Soviets weren't progressing their technology with good experimentation. Their rush to get to the moon was doomed from the start. And interesting how you belittle the accomplishments of the US when the Soviets themselves could not even do it.

Oh...the USSR duct taped a dog into an ICBM...that's progress.

And it worked. If the first Turing-complete machine was made of smooth stones on a beach, it would still be the first Turing-complete machine. Cry about the lack of transistors and electricity all you want. It worked.

Lots of people crapping on the Russian's accomplishments here. Strange. It's like the 1980's all over again aka that Family Ties episode where the Russians send a chess champion player to play Alex P. Keaton. I mean cold war is over. We won - remember?

Russians helped a lot on practical technologies - rockets, spacecraft and stations. Their people spent the most time in space, so such data was invaluable.

And so we won the moon space race, and then spent the next 40 years undoing that accomplishment by building a fleet of shuttles to nowhere and NASA budget cuts. So, we won. Big deal.

We landed on the moon? Cool!!!

/Look out for a young musical talent named Michael Jackson he and his brothers have a group called the Jackson 5
//if posting on the internet weren't free I wouldn't have bothered posting this
///can't wait for "free" health care

Yeah, whoopy !
Who cares ?
Even if the US won, what did they do with it ? Nothing...
So they planted a flag and left rubbish here and there and didn't go back for how many decades ?
Should be a thriving base on there by now...
Johnson had the Vison, Kenedy made the speech...
Who will champion the Moon and beyond ??

Dr. Mojo PhD: And it worked.

And it offered little advancement. Again, why bother duct taping dogs to rockets when you're only doing it for the glory of being first? And it offers little real advancement?

Look at it as this, someone posts an article on Fark. Who contributes the most to the thread? The guy who yells out "Boobies" or the guy who takes his time and actually fashions a worthwhile response?

Bauer: unless you understand what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of...and what effect they have on the earth and human tissue...you have no clue.

you cannot change the laws of physics.

-we never left low earth orbit.

if anyone has any doubts...let's see a modern day 'astronaut' wear his 60's style spacesuit into three mile island or the equivalency.

he would fry like a egg on a skillet.

better yet...let buzz aldrin do it.

this is the lynchpin in the whole affair.

their 'suits' were shiat...and would not protect them from a dental exam.

they know this...some of you do not, obviously.

-everything else aside.

look at the evidence concerning the van allen radiation belts.

they would need lead shielding three feet thick to survive leaving the earths' protective barrier.

i know some of you have strong opinions on this subject...but do yourself a favor and google "the van allen belts".

it may open your eyes to the many lies "your gov't" has told you...in your name, and with your tax dollars.

-flame on.


"The recent Fox TV show, which I saw, is an ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense. The claim that radiation exposure during the Apollo missions would have been fatal to the astronauts is only one example of such nonsense." -- Dr. James Van Allen

But hey... what could Dr. James Van friggin Allen possibly know about about the Van Allen belts?