Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

Let us not forget thid first: On April 5, 1975, the second stage of a Soyuz rocket carrying 2 cosmonauts to the Salyut 4 space station malfunctioned, resulting in the first manned launch abort.

Their rush to be "first" came at a high cost including over 180 dead in three separate launch pad explosions (1960,1969 and 1980)and many other unreported deaths until after the collaspe of the Soviet Union

Link (new window)

/They may have won their conference championship but they lost the Super Bowl.

Vohnkar: I enjoy the story about NASA spending millions to develop a ball point pen that would write in zero gravity while the Russians just used a pencil

When I read that story the first time, I asked, Really?!? (new window)

Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race. They were the first to put an object in space, the first to put a living being in space, the first to bring a living being back from space, the first to put a man in space (and bring him back). They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile, the US just proved that with a good sense of direction acquired from others you could park it at the grocery store, pick up your groceries, and bring them back.

USSR space firsts up until '69:

# 1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
# 1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
# 1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
# 1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
# 1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
# 1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
# 1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
# 1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
# 1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
# 1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
# 1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
# 1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
# 1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
# 1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
# 1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
# 1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
# 1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
# 1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
# 1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
# 1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
# 1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5

I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

Here's the problem with all those first, had the US not had any intention of actually being safe and ensuring the survivability of their astronauts we could have beat them on several of those.

Laika was launched with all intentions of never being recovered. If we wanted to, we could have tossed a dog in an ICBM and beat them.

Ultimately their race to rack up accomplishments led them into being left behind in actual technology. Which when it got to the moonshot hurt them severely.

General Vayo: Almost all of their "firsts" were publicity stunts. Sputnik 1 and 2? Big nothings, had no science behind them whatsoever.

What a ridiculous comment. To think that Sputnik was not of technological importance. I suppose you're going to say it was completely irrelevant as well. Holy crap.

rhiannon: What a ridiculous comment. To think that Sputnik was not of technological importance. I suppose you're going to say it was completely irrelevant as well. Holy crap.

In all actuality, the US had the tech to put a satellite into orbit a year or two before Sputnik, but Eisenhower was afraid of the legal implications of putting a satellite over other nations airspace. He actually applauded the USSR launch, since it set legal precedent for spy satellites. Von Braun had been lobbying for a satellite launch for quite some time. If I remember correctly, the first launch of Redstone had a third stage filled with sand, so that it couldn't go into orbit. When the Navy's competing rocket (Vanguard) failed, the Redstone team said 'Hey, we happen to have this rocket sitting here, ready to go.'

Historically speaking, Sputnik was huge, gave the USSR the lead in the space race, and pushed the US to new heights. Technically? Not so much.

Dr. Mojo PhD: It was the time of innovation that the race meant anything though. Now even developing nations have the power that once belonged solely in the domain of two superpowers. Even the great powers of the time couldn't accomplish what the USA and USSR did. Canada sent the first commercial satellite into space, but they did it on the backs of the USA and the USSR. Now it's just a matter of course.

Nobody's been to the moon in over 30 years, seems to me somebody wants to get there again. And then there's Mars. Unfortunately (for myself and all fans of space exploration) nothing is happening fast, but it's going to happen. The question now is who, and it might not be the USA or Russia this time.

nekom: Nobody's been to the moon in over 30 years, seems to me somebody wants to get there again. And then there's Mars. Unfortunately (for myself and all fans of space exploration) nothing is happening fast, but it's going to happen. The question now is who, and it might not be the USA or Russia this time.

I don't care if it's North Korea. I'll be damned excited in any case.

Vohnkar: I enjoy the story about NASA spending millions to develop a ball point pen that would write in zero gravity while the Russians just used a pencil

I enjoy fake stories as well.

rhiannon: General Vayo: Almost all of their "firsts" were publicity stunts. Sputnik 1 and 2? Big nothings, had no science behind them whatsoever.

What a ridiculous comment. To think that Sputnik was not of technological importance. I suppose you're going to say it was completely irrelevant as well. Holy crap.


I think one of the largest differences in the USA vs USSR space race's effect on respective cultures was in how the technology was developed. The USSR system tended to classify anything done for space as military secrets. So their advancements stayed in house and for the most part, the general public didn't benefit much from it.

USA's space tech was all developed by public corporations who turned around and used the technology in commercial enterprises, many of which would benefit the general public in years to come. Computers, communications, materials etc...

I think this is why the USA ultimately "won". We let our secrets out and the rest of the world benefited. USSR's space technology never really captured the world's imagination the same way the USA's would.

But of course the Russians are having something of a last laugh, as the complicated space shuttles retire and rugged Russian capsules ferry astronauts back and forth...

Not to sound too dorky, but maybe we could think of ourselves as humanity as a whole instead of this country did this and that country did that. I think most astronauts and cosmonauts would agree.

And why would you say first to the moon Subby? Did anyone else walk on it? Or drive a car there?

Mercutio879: Historically speaking, Sputnik was huge, gave the USSR the lead in the space race, and pushed the US to new heights. Technically? Not so much.

The US was in catch-up mode after Sputnik. Spin it all you want, Sputnik was significant both in technology and historically. The fact that the US was working on the same technology does not take away from that.

Gen. Apathy: Not to sound too dorky, but maybe we could think of ourselves as humanity as a whole instead of this country did this and that country did that. I think most astronauts and cosmonauts would agree.

And why would you say first to the moon Subby? Did anyone else walk on it? Or drive a car there?


Oh, I agree. Space is too complicated and damned expensive for any one nation to get far into. It'll take the efforts of the whole world cooperating to get much farther. All the more reason to continue manned space programs.

Rockstone: The race was to land a man on the moon

errrr

yea thats totally why it was called the moon race right ? (*cough cough, SPACE race*)

those grapes were sour anyway ?

Get over it.
At least the Russians can be satisfied with inventing baseball.

rhiannon: The fact that the US was working on the same technology does not take away from that.

The US wasn't 'working on the same technology.' We had the technology, but couldn't use it because Eisenhower was afraid of an international incident. The USSR put a satellite up first because they weren't worried about it. There was a reason we had the first spy satellite, and the first science performing satellite up there.

Three words: The Nedelin Catastrophe

I don't think NASA ever had a disaster that bad.

TheDirtyNacho: Oh, I agree. Space is too complicated and damned expensive for any one nation to get far into. It'll take the efforts of the whole world cooperating to get much farther. All the more reason to continue manned space programs.

You know, on second thought, I think it more likely that the first person on Mars won't plant a American, Russian, or Chinese flag. No, it'll be a corporate logo for Google Spacecorp or something like that.

"Did Russia ever go to the moon? Nooooooo... You know why? 'Cause they're little space pussies! ...You really wanna impress us? Bring back our farkin' FLAG, asshole!"

Don't forget that the USA got to the moon first on the back of German rocket technology courtesy of Werner von Braun, the enthusiastic Nazi slave-driver.

Broadside: nekom: Nobody's been to the moon in over 30 years, seems to me somebody wants to get there again. And then there's Mars. Unfortunately (for myself and all fans of space exploration) nothing is happening fast, but it's going to happen. The question now is who, and it might not be the USA or Russia this time.

I don't care if it's North Korea. I'll be damned excited in any case.

well I wouldn't really bank on them getting there, but maybe China or India. I'd be thrilled too, whoever it was.

Came in to correct 'first nation' to 'only nation', but see it has already been done.

Suede head: Don't forget that the USA got to the moon first on the back of German rocket technology courtesy of Werner von Braun, the enthusiastic Nazi slave-driver.

"I aim for the stars - it's just that sometimes, I hit London."

Broadside: TheDirtyNacho: Oh, I agree. Space is too complicated and damned expensive for any one nation to get far into. It'll take the efforts of the whole world cooperating to get much farther. All the more reason to continue manned space programs.

You know, on second thought, I think it more likely that the first person on Mars won't plant a American, Russian, or Chinese flag. No, it'll be a corporate logo for Google Spacecorp or something like that.

National differences disappear when there is money to be made. For business interest, space has been low on priority because Initial cost is high, risk is high, return on investment is low. Exception to this is satellite communications - there's enough ROI to make it worthwhile, and there has been lots of innovation accordingly.

Eventually it will make sense to mine the asteroids and the moon. The moon has lots of fusionable helium, whereas the Earth has relatively little. Eventually it may make sense to mine helium on the moon to power the earth. After then, it may make sense to build a space elevator for launching and returning spacecraft. And then move on to Mars, and the asteroids and beyond...

Or some other scenario...

Total time in space:

1 Sergei Krikalev =804.3 Days Russia/Soviet Union
2 Sergei Avdeyev =747.5 Days Russia
3 Valeriy Polyakov =678.6 Days Russia/Soviet Union
4 Anatoly Solovyev =651.1 Days Russia/Soviet Union
5 Alexandr Kaleri =609.9 Days Russia
6 Viktor Afanasyev =555.7 Days Russia/Soviet Union
7 Yury Usachev =553.0 Days Russia
8 Musa Manarov =541.0 Days Russia/Soviet Union
9 Yuri Malenchenko =514.5 Days Russia
10 Alexander Viktorenko =489.0 Days Russia/Soviet Union
11 Gennady Padalka =501.7 Days Russia
12 Nikolai Budarin =444.0 Days Russia
13 Yuri Romanenko =430.7 Days Soviet Union
14 Alexander Volkov =391.4 Days Russia/Soviet Union
15 Yuri I. Onufrienko =389.2 Days Russia
16 Vladimir G. Titov =387.0 Days Russia/Soviet Union
17 Vasili Tsibliyev =381.6 Days Russia
18 Valery G. Korzun =381.6 Days Russia
19 Pavel Vinogradov =380.6 Days Russia
20 Peggy A. Whitson =376.7 Days United States

We barely crack the top 20!
/Spam in a can

zamboni: Probably. I don't think the Soviets will be spending any more on space programs.

Obvious to you and me perhaps, but unfortunately nobody seems to have told the US government.

"Russia still blueseeing red over moon landing 40 years later"

FTFTFA.

Musto: We barely crack the top 20!
/Spam in a can

Again, it's not for technical merits. The Soviets just didn't care about the health problems associated with long term space habitation.

The ISS could have kept Americans up there for a long long time. But why?

Smarshmallow: naptapper: This feat has not been duplicated by any other nation in the history of mankind.

The U.S. duplicated its feat five times (Apollos 12, 14, 15, 16, 17).

Dr. Mojo PhD: Why the hell are they depressed? The Soviet Union won the Space Race.

Because we had the better sherpa.

Mercutio879: The ISS is the head on a pin compared to the moon. Considering the territoriality of the US, taking along another country, or group of countries (the ESA) for the ride would stir up a lot of hate in Congress.

Probably. However, partnering with other nations would surely be popular due to two particulars:
i) someone else is paying for it
ii) someone else can be blamed when it goes wrong

Mrbogey:
Again, it's not for technical merits. The Soviets just didn't care about the health problems associated with long term space habitation.

The ISS could have kept Americans up there for a long long time. But why?

Doesn't interplanetary space travel require long term habitation?

Seems like Russia is ahead of the curve. Not that it matters, the Chinese will beat us back to the Moon then the race will be for Mars.

I wish they'd remake Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space with a start in 1950 or 1955 and a chance to go for a moon landing. In the original the endings for a Spring or Fall landing in '65 are great!

that should be mars landing and lunar colony, not "moon landing" in that last comment...

Mercutio879: rhiannon: The fact that the US was working on the same technology does not take away from that.

The US wasn't 'working on the same technology.' We had the technology, but couldn't use it because Eisenhower was afraid of an international incident. The USSR put a satellite up first because they weren't worried about it. There was a reason we had the first spy satellite, and the first science performing satellite up there.

As far as I can tell, it was still a work in progress for the US. Then again, when was it not. If you have anything that says the US had a fully capable system that was just sitting around, I'd love to educate myself.

While we argue merits and records the Chinese are going to the moon. (new window)

First the moon then on to Mars!
/red planet = red flag

Musto: Doesn't interplanetary space travel require long term habitation?

General time to Mars = ~130 earth days. Considering Mars is the nearest habitable rock other than the moon, I think we have the data we need, as long as it's not a 'Flags and Footprints'

The next nearest would maybe be a moon of Jupiter (Ganymede or Europa) or Titan of Saturn. Those would be horrifically long trips with current tech, probably not within this century.

rhiannon: As far as I can tell, it was still a work in progress for the US. Then again, when was it not. If you have anything that says the US had a fully capable system that was just sitting around, I'd love to educate myself.

I can't find a link at the moment, but a History Channel documentary said that von Braun and the other rocketeers in Alabama basically built an entire Redstone rocket in secret. They claimed it was for 'Long Term Storage testing.' When the military came to inspect the progress, one of the engineers literally took the satellite off the nose of the rocket and hid it in the trunk of his car. This was about a month before Sputnik. When that went up, the military let the Army (von Braun) and Navy bid for the first satellite launch. The Navy won, but their Vanguard rocket famously blew up on the launch pad. Von Braun then said, 'You know, I just happen to have this rocket in long term storage.'

Nem Wan: Smarshmallow: naptapper: This feat has not been duplicated by any other nation in the history of mankind.

The U.S. duplicated its feat five times (Apollos 12, 14, 15, 16, 17).

I'm aware, but I couldn't liked the simplicity of just crossing something out.

Broadside: Rockstone:

Really? There was an official race with objectives, rules and referees? Who did they send as officials? The Swiss? Did the U.S. win a trophy? Or at least a purple ribbon?



Actually, it was a blue ribbon.

unless you understand what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of...and what effect they have on the earth and human tissue...you have no clue.

you cannot change the laws of physics.

-we never left low earth orbit.

if anyone has any doubts...let's see a modern day 'astronaut' wear his 60's style spacesuit into three mile island or the equivalency.

he would fry like a egg on a skillet.

better yet...let buzz aldrin do it.

this is the lynchpin in the whole affair.

their 'suits' were shiat...and would not protect them from a dental exam.

they know this...some of you do not, obviously.

-everything else aside.

look at the evidence concerning the van allen radiation belts.

they would need lead shielding three feet thick to survive leaving the earths' protective barrier.

i know some of you have strong opinions on this subject...but do yourself a favor and google "the van allen belts".

it may open your eyes to the many lies "your gov't" has told you...in your name, and with your tax dollars.

-flame on.

Bauer: -we never left low earth orbit.

They took a medium level dose of radiation. On a 3.5 day trip to the moon, they would have been in and out of the van allen belts in a matter of hours. Source Badastronomy.com (new window)

The 60's era suits were superb suits. The US had a lot of experience with space suits from the U2 and SR-71 programs.

If they had loitered in the VAs for a few days, sure, but the craft, their suits and their speed protected them.

Bauer: -flame on.

You idiotic gum flapping baboon.

What if Russia had made it to the moon, decided to press on even though the US was there first. They land near one of our faked landing sites, and..... nothing there. The US would have been the laughing stock of the world. We would have lost face with everybody, gone from a superpower to a superdork. The loss of political power would have been crushing. After an embarrassment like that, it's doubtful we would have been able to win the Cold War.

Bauer: unless you understand what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of...and what effect they have on the earth and human tissue...you have no clue.

you cannot change the laws of physics.

-we never left low earth orbit.



If you knew anything about the Van Allen radiation belts, you'd know that the majority of the radiation can be stopped with a fairly thin sheet of plastic. Don't let facts stop your wild conspiracy fantasy fulfillment, though.

Uh-oh, Bauer's back at it again.

Bauer: unless you understand

Big words from someone who obviously didn't do well in physics. Go back to class, retard.

Dr. Mojo PhD: I'm not knocking the moon landings, but seriously. They won.

If you view the whole thing as a game, then we won. The Russians led the with the offensive line for first three quarters, then we came in with a game winning field goal, banged the homecoming queen, and pissed on the mascot just because we could.

But it's not a game. It's just a steady progression. Everything the Russians and NASA did are just steps for further exploration. The good part about our uneasy truce in the Cold War is that we can share the learned information so we don't turn into a world of farking retards like Bauer.

greycoat: Russia is still pissed that the U.S. was first to land on the moon

Sorry Ruskie. Tough govno. It's only closest in horseshoes. For everyone else. The U.S.A. got there first. Didn't mean squat in the long run, but, we did get there first.

What's my point again?

Channeling the base commander in Dr Strangelove who ordered the first nuke attack on Russia?

/Have you ever seen a Russian drink water?

Dr. Mojo PhD: They designed, built, and proved the viability of the automobile

The Soviet Union didn't even exist until 1917, well after the automobile.

If anyone is interested there is a complete re-enactment of the 1st moon shot/landing 40 years ago to the date happening on this site: WeChooseTheMoon (new window) There is still about 26 hours till the actual landing. They have tons of photos, video, the entire radio feed playing in real time (synched up to 40 years ago to the minute), and more. Click on the pop-up player for the audio feed, I've been listening to it for hours at a time in the background, really freaking cool.

According to the Bauer: what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of

The article you linked to says that a satellite loitering in the VAs with 3mm of aluminum shielding will receive 25,000 rems/year. The Apollos were only in the VAs for about 2 hours. Doing the math means the Astronauts got about 2.7 rems of radiation while in the VAs. You have to get more than 100 to get the slightest illness, or about 200 serious illness to death nearer to 1000.

Bauer: unless you understand what the van allen radiation belts actually consist of...and what effect they have on the earth and human tissue...you have no clue.

you cannot change the laws of physics.

-we never left low earth orbit.

if anyone has any doubts...let's see a modern day 'astronaut' wear his 60's style spacesuit into three mile island or the equivalency.

he would fry like a egg on a skillet.

better yet...let buzz aldrin do it.

this is the lynchpin in the whole affair.

their 'suits' were shiat...and would not protect them from a dental exam.

they know this...some of you do not, obviously.

-everything else aside.

look at the evidence concerning the van allen radiation belts.

they would need lead shielding three feet thick to survive leaving the earths' protective barrier.

i know some of you have strong opinions on this subject...but do yourself a favor and google "the van allen belts".

it may open your eyes to the many lies "your gov't" has told you...in your name, and with your tax dollars.

-flame on.

You commies lost. Get over it.