What a Fagg.

FTFA: Wayne Fagg

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fagg.

His ancestors were Roman. The family name was Biggus Dickus.

Mr Fagg said....
LOL'd

Sounds like a legit case, though. You can easily hurt yourself lifting that much weight.

If you're a lardass and you die on the second floor of a building, know that your mortal remains are going to be rolled down the stairs with your fat head bouncing on every step on the way down because science has not yet invented a device sufficient for moving an 800lb corpse down a flight of stairs.

If you want to die with dignity, don't die fat.

120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".

If he's been doing this for 40 years, it looks to me like he's trying to grab a retirement payoff.

Last week on "Nurse Jackie" they had an orderly threaten to do just this because of the fatties.

/Yeah, watching the show makes you a fag, unless you came to watch the drug abuse. Thanks to Jackie I've started crushing my vicodin.

120 kg = 265 pounds. Big, but not beached whale lard-ass by any means.

What. The. Hell.

I have lifted a 260lb. patient in to the back of the ambulance before. I realize that was a poor decision and I probably should have asked for help, but whatever. I lifted his big ass.

The more prudent decision, which I have also done with bigger patients, would be to go in to the emergency room and inform them that I can't lift the patient and say that I'm not leaving until I have lift help.

265 pounds? Not horribly obese, but what kind of support did this guy have? Was he lifting 265 pounds of dead weight? Was there someone else there to assist him? I know that I couldn't lift that weight by myself.

Assumed risk. That is all.

/not a chance this case will go anywhere

FrancoFile: 120 kg = 265 pounds. Big, but not beached whale lard-ass by any means.

Only if she's 5' 2"

bluesbox: Fagg.

His ancestors were Roman. The family name was Biggus Dickus.

He had a wife, you know.

FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".


264 lbs is obese if you are under 6'7". It is morbidly obese if you are below 5'8". (Obesity = BMI>30, Morbid Obesity = BMI > 40)

Seriously, why wouldn't you change your name?

Red Beard: Seriously, why wouldn't you change your name?

Cause he's not a pansy-ass fag.

Riffington: FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".


264 lbs is obese if you are under 6'7". It is morbidly obese if you are below 5'8". (Obesity = BMI>30, Morbid Obesity = BMI > 40)

BMI, known flawed system, etc.

I pulled my rotator cuff helping a large patient walk across the room when I used to work at a hospital. They suddenly decided they couldn't walk anymore, and suddenly I had several hundred pounds pulling down on my shoulder. Luckily there were two of us helping the guy, otherwise a pulled cuff would be a torn cuff. First and only time I've been on workers comp, not fun.

I've put bigger pt's in the ambulance and the one who caused my only back injury weighed 565lbs. 260lbs I'd load easily alone with a one man stretcher. Unless his service is using the old "qwuat & grunt" 2 man stretchers he did something wrong.

TsukasaK: Riffington: FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".


264 lbs is obese if you are under 6'7". It is morbidly obese if you are below 5'8". (Obesity = BMI>30, Morbid Obesity = BMI > 40)

BMI, known flawed system, etc.

It is flawed insofar as it's a bit simplistic and may incorrectly consider very muscular people to be obese. There is no suggestion that this patient was a football player.

/The real "flaw" you think is present is that it calls most Americans overweight/obese. The flaw there is not with the BMI.

BMI isn't a flawed system. Why do fat people insist upon saying that?

Unless you are a bodybuilder or a professional athlete BMI *works for you*.

I can't even count how many times an overweight computer programmer who played 2nd string high school football 10 years ago has said that BMI doesn't work because it doesn't account for excessive muscle mass.

BMI works. You are fat.

I exercise daily and am constantly putting on muscle weight. My waist is a little pudgy at 36" (still have some left to burn off), but I'm nearly 220 pounds.

260 is a problem?!? That's not good.

no HERO tag?

Fark_Guy_Rob: BMI isn't a flawed system. Why do fat people insist upon saying that?

Unless you are a bodybuilder or a professional athlete BMI *works for you*.

you're wrong-

"The person who dreamed up the BMI said explicitly that it could not and should not be used to indicate the level of fatness in an individual. "

NPR's mathematician would like a word with you
(hint this is relavant as the BMI was invented by a 17th century mathematician-NOT a doctor.)

that's the top 10 reasons why the BMI is flawed:



"It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then."

pic in profile if your "convinced" I'm a fattie

BMI works just fine on populations. Individuals can vary, populations don't. There are some variations for ethnicity maybe. 260 lbs is fatass. Even if they weren't, it's still too much to carry.

I think Mr. Fagg sounds pretty reasonable. He was transporting a person of somewhat large proportions (260 lbs), when he realized he could not handle that much weight. Then, when he asked for assistance, he was refused, and so he did it on his own and was hurt.

That being said, those dinosaurs who think the BMI is a big load are misinformed. Yes, it doesn't work for bodybuilders, the squat, and the tall. Like any indicator, it's not perfect for 100% of people 100% of the time. But a vast majority of people are not of extreme proportions - they are fairly statistically normal, and for those people the BMI works as an excellent indicator more often than not.

Just because a person is an exception to the rule doesn't mean the rule is meaningless.

As an EX health-care professional I advise you not to get very fat if you ever plan to wreck your car. Especially at night in a snow storm. It pisses off the EMT's.

BlaqueKatt: Fark_Guy_Rob: BMI isn't a flawed system. Why do fat people insist upon saying that?

Unless you are a bodybuilder or a professional athlete BMI *works for you*.

you're wrong-

"The person who dreamed up the BMI said explicitly that it could not and should not be used to indicate the level of fatness in an individual. "

NPR's mathematician would like a word with you
(hint this is relavant as the BMI was invented by a 17th century mathematician-NOT a doctor.)

that's the top 10 reasons why the BMI is flawed:



"It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then."

pic in profile if your "convinced" I'm a fattie

Well you're fatter than me if that counts for anything.

Without getting into the BMI argument, 265 lbs is 265 lbs, regardless of whether it is fat or muscle. And, for many people, lifting 265lbs would be quite a burden, if not down right impossible (for wimps like me). Imagine if the person was severely disabled or unconscious. It would be hard to lift/transfer that weight by yourself.

Lamune_Baba:

I see your engine hoist, and raise you:

Transubstantive: Assumed risk. That is all.

/not a chance this case will go anywhere

fireman's frickin rule

In BC, they had to get larger planes to keep moving their ever-fatter patients from the rural "stop you from bleeding to death" hospitals to the metropolitan "put everything back together" hospitals. I shiat you not, for a while there with the "large" patients, the EMTs had to grease the patient and the doorframe, then shove the patient inside one blubbery handful at a time.

Now, one could argue that they needed a new fleet anyway and thus the rising obesity rates did them a favour--but still, if you are so fat that the EMTs saving your ass (and your belly, and your gunt, and your cankles) have to shove you through the door one lubed-up handful at a time, you have more problems than whatever heart attack or chainsaw accident landed you in their care in the first place.

If Mr. *snicker* Fagg here says he needed help to deal with the fatty and was denied that help, then injured because of the denial... call me biased, but I'm all for his suit.

Riffington: FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".


264 lbs is obese if you are under 6'7". It is morbidly obese if you are below 5'8". (Obesity = BMI>30, Morbid Obesity = BMI > 40)


Wrong you are. When I was in the service, I weighed 257 pounds. I'm 6'1". I was in the "fat boy" program the entire 43 months I was in the Army due to their weight charts. I had to get a body fat content evaluation every 6 months.

BMI = bullshiat. At 257 pounds, my body fat content hovered between 16-18%. Not fat. You fail.

I'm just very heavy. Noone ever guesses anywhere near the correct weight, even in summer with my shirt off. Most people looking at me guess in the 170-180 range. I'm 6'1 and 230lb.

/shrug

He should sue the patient for being obese. Had he been a more normal weight, the ambulance driver never would have suffered injury.

Why are there obese or overweight people?

a) too much high-fructose corn syrup in everything.

b) a lot of obese and overweight people simply BS themselves. Like the people who say BMI is not representative.

If your BMI is on the upper end, OK. If it's way over, you're fat. Fat. Fat. FAT. fat. FAT.

FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".

If he's been doing this for 40 years, it looks to me like he's trying to grab a retirement payoff.

The thing is you usually have help. The problem was in this case he didn't get any.

Tumunga: Riffington: FF Mac: 120kg is fat? Really? It isn't small, but 260 lbs is not exactly obese...unless you're 5'0".


264 lbs is obese if you are under 6'7". It is morbidly obese if you are below 5'8". (Obesity = BMI>30, Morbid Obesity = BMI > 40)


Wrong you are. When I was in the service, I weighed 257 pounds. I'm 6'1". I was in the "fat boy" program the entire 43 months I was in the Army due to their weight charts. I had to get a body fat content evaluation every 6 months.

BMI = bullshiat. At 257 pounds, my body fat content hovered between 16-18%. Not fat. You fail.

The thing is BMI assumes normal muscle mass. It fails with those at a high level of fitness.

The American Heart Association recommends BMI and waist circumference as the two best measures of overweight/obesity. All measures are flawed, but these are the least flawed. If you are heavily muscled, have an artificial leg, etc, then ignore your BMI. Otherwise, your BMI has clinical significance.

BlaqueKat, when a measure is first invented, it should be treated with skepticism. BMI has been repeatedly validated since as an indicator of cardiac risk. Its correlation with attractiveness has not been as well studied.

BMI is useless as a metric because it fails to account for increased muscle mass, 19 extra organs, cybernetic implants, and divine fury.



/ Hot as a purge

valencia:
Well you're fatter than me if that counts for anything.

at 5'5" and 125 pounds really? (I have a 28 inch waist=size 4)

Riffington did you even read the article I linked?

The BMI was introduced in the early 19th century by a Belgian named Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet. He was a mathematician, not a physician. He produced the formula to give a quick and easy way to measure the degree of obesity of the general population to assist the government in allocating resources. In other words, it is a 200-year-old hack. Quetelet had to square the height to get a formula that matched the overall data. Insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums for people with a high BMI. Among such people are all those fit individuals with good bone and muscle and little fat, who will live long, healthy lives during which they will have to pay those greater premiums. Continued reliance on the BMI means doctors don't feel the need to use one of the more scientifically sound methods that are available to measure obesity levels.

It is embarrassing for one of the most scientifically, technologically and medicinally advanced nations in the world to base advice on how to prevent one of the leading causes of poor health and premature death (obesity) on a 200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then.

BlaqueKatt: ]pic in profile if your "convinced" I'm a fattie

Well, you certainly aren't fat, but you might want to consider putting on clothing that actually covers you.

Miss Smartass:
Well, you certainly aren't fat, but you might want to consider putting on clothing that actually covers you.

It was halloween

BlaqueKatt: Miss Smartass:
Well, you certainly aren't fat, but you might want to consider putting on clothing that actually covers you.

It was halloween

How are YOU doin'?

BlaqueKatt: Miss Smartass:
Well, you certainly aren't fat, but you might want to consider putting on clothing that actually covers you.

It was halloween

Yeah, I don't really agree with BMI or what I see on the scale. If you're at all athletic or anything other than fine-boned, you'll find that BMI values, or even your weight, doesn't agree with what you see in the mirror, or what clothing size you wear, or the rest of your health statistics.

I've always weighed 10-20 pounds more than I look. Won quite a few prizes that way at the "Guess Your Weight" booths at the state fair. I guess I'm just dense.

/now if we could just get everyone to wear clothes that FIT, no matter the size
//lost cause, I'm sure

BlaqueKatt:
Riffington did you even read the article I linked?

It doesn't matter if it was invented by a doctor, a mathematician, or a drunken Templar. What matters is that it has since been validated by repeated studies, and is considered one of the best estimates of overweight/obesity by physicians and medical researchers (see AHA guidelines). Invent a better measure and we'll switch.

<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4519332&IDComment=52874968#c528 74968">Riffington</a>:</b> <i>BlaqueKatt:
Riffington did you even read the article I linked?

It doesn't matter if it was invented by a doctor, a mathematician, or a drunken Templar. What matters is that it has since been validated by repeated studies, .</i>

..which were in no way affected by a confirmation bias, I'm sure. Let's take 100 fat people, assign them a fat guy number and measure quantitatively whether or not they're fat. This is the same scale that calls Michael Jordan "obese".

BlaqueKatt: valencia:
Well you're fatter than me if that counts for anything.

at 5'5" and 125 pounds really? (I have a 28 inch waist=size 4)



5 feet, 106 pounds, 26 inch waist = size 1 so yes. Yes really.

valencia: BlaqueKatt: valencia:
Well you're fatter than me if that counts for anything.

at 5'5" and 125 pounds really? (I have a 28 inch waist=size 4)



5 feet, 106 pounds, 26 inch waist = size 1 so yes. Yes really.

You sound like a biatch.

valencia:
5 feet, 106 pounds, 26 inch waist = size 1 so yes. Yes really.

you're also shorter-so apples/oranges-I was a size zero until I joined the army

flakeloaf-"..which were in no way affected by a confirmation bias, I'm sure. Let's take 100 fat people, assign them a fat guy number and measure quantitatively whether or not they're fat."


you are correct

The CDC says on its Web site that "the BMI is a reliable indicator of body fatness for people." This is a fundamental error of logic. For example, if I tell you my birthday present is a bicycle, you can conclude that my present has wheels. That's correct logic. But it does not work the other way round. If I tell you my birthday present has wheels, you cannot conclude I got a bicycle. I could have received a car. Because of how Quetelet came up with it, if a person is fat or obese, he or she will have a high BMI. But as with my birthday present, it doesn't work the other way round. A high BMI does not mean an individual is even overweight, let alone obese. It could mean the person is fit and healthy, with very little fat.

I like how this thread has degenerated into a "I'm skinnier than you so therefore I am right and everyone must give a raging shiat" argument.

Riffington: What matters is that it has since been validated by repeated studies, and is considered one of the best estimates of overweight/obesity by physicians and medical researchers (see AHA guidelines). Invent a better measure and we'll switch.

of what "studies" do you speak?

and there are better methods-body fat calipers, waist circumferance-when I had just gotten out of the army I weighed 160 pounds-the BMI classified me as "Obese", my body fat percentage was actually dangerously low(under 10%), I was no longer menstruating. I was the same size I am now, but due to my high and therefore dangerous weight problem-I had to pay higher insurance premiums even though I was in great shape.

Miss Smartass:
Well, you certainly aren't fat, but you might want to consider putting on clothing that actually covers you.

by the way who died and made you the morality police-I'll wear what I'm comfortable in-FYI-my closet looks like a hot topic exploded, and I have purple hair. What I wear does not affect you in any manner, just as what you wear does not affect me-so let's just agree to not say anything about each other's wardrobes m'kay?

That's it, all catty women get naked and into the jello pool. We'll settle this the old fashioned way.

BlaqueKatt: by the way who died and made you the morality police-I'll wear what I'm comfortable in-FYI-my closet looks like a hot topic exploded, and I have purple hair. What I wear does not affect you in any manner, just as what you wear does not affect me-so let's just agree to not say anything about each other's wardrobes m'kay?

Oh, wow. Hot Topic? What are you, 15?
Also, I don't think you'd rage if you weren't dressing like that for attention ;]

According to BMI, I am off the charts at 5'11 and 293 lbs. I have a bit of a spare tire but am far from fat. I wear 2XL-3XL tshirts but my pants are 38's. I do not know my exact body fat percentage but I am sure it is lower than your average Farker. Also spent entire Army career on the fat boy program even though my percentage back then was always about 8%.

BlaqueKatt: and there are better methods-body fat calipers, waist circumferance-when I had just gotten out of the army I weighed 160 pounds-the BMI classified me as "Obese", my body fat percentage was actually dangerously low(under 10%), I was no longer menstruating. I was the same size I am now, but due to my high and therefore dangerous weight problem-I had to pay higher insurance premiums even though I was in great shape.

Because having a dangerously low amount of body fat means you are in "great shape."

Damn, thats on the low end of patients I've been hauling. We actually have ramps and a winch on one of our ambulances. FFS

Snakeophelia: /now if we could just get everyone to wear clothes that FIT, no matter the size
//lost cause, I'm sure

omg, THIS!!!! I hate when people wear clothes that are too big, too small, a style that's not shaped right for their body type, or just overall unflattering. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Of course the other issue is that certain body types are harder to fit than others, but if you look hard enough, you can find well fitting clothes somewhere!

BlaqueKatt: of what "studies" do you speak?
BMI correlates well with cardiovascular risk, development of diabetes, and other "obesity-related" diseases.

Bardia, A, Holtan, SG, Slezak, JM, Thompson, WG. Diagnosis of obesity by primary care physicians and impact on obesity management. Mayo Clin Proc 2007; 82:927.
Clinical Guidelines on the Identification, Evaluation, and Treatment of Overweight and Obesity in Adults--The Evidence Report. National Institutes of Health. Obes Res 1998; 6 Suppl 2:51S.
Janssen, I, Katzmarzyk, PT, Ross, R. Body mass index, waist circumference, and health risk: evidence in support of current national institutes of health guidelines. Arch Intern Med 2002; 162:2074.


and there are better methods-body fat calipers, waist circumferance

BMI correlates to cardiovascular risk about as well as waist circumference, and better than body fat calipers. There are superior methods such as MRI and Dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry; these are significantly more expensive.

(see Lohman, TG, Roche, AF, Martorell, R. Anthropometric standardization reference manual. Human Kinetics Books, Champaign, Ill 1988. )