I wouldn't mind taking the train if it were a bit faster. I looked into an Amtrak trip from Charleston, WV to Philly once. Twelve hours! I could drive it in eight. And I'd have to stop for red lights. I don't get it.

Three million per car? Seriously? What the hell are they made out of?

I have a hard time believing other rail-heavy countries like Japan dish out three million per train car.

Then again, our trains are slow-moving, enormous lumbering behemoths of awesome American power. Maybe that's why our trains keep losing money.

This gets a big FAIL for subby.

jaerik: Then again, our trains are slow-moving, enormous lumbering behemoths of awesome American power. Maybe that's why our trains keep losing money.

Yeah, if only trains could be like roads and airlines, which are money-making ventures existing without government support.

Davey Croquette: That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train.

Seriously?

I dont know if there is a rule against that but the employees dont seem to care.

What? An indifferent federal government employee? Impossible.

How about this- AMTRAK introduces "Booze Train to Nowhere" brought to you by AMTRAK, MADD, and Capt. Morgan.

Most of the employees I have met are very friendly and if they have time will chat.

A couple years ago I caught the last train to chicago on Halloween. Basically we had a party in one of the cars and a LOT of people were mixing drinks. The employees didn't care because everyone was having fun.

The reason we don't have high speed trains is because we don't have the track for it.

I took Amtrak between NYC and DC regularly for year while long distance dating, it was awesome. The workers were nice, there was plenty of room even in the non-Acela cars, you can make calls, get work done, charge your laptop. And no insane lines or security.

gustakooka: Oh noes! .005 percent was used on something other than what you hoped for?

I'd consider making the existing ones safer and less prone to fatal accidents, especially .005, a worthwhile investment.

/not arguing you, just saying

joethebastard: GT_bike: and that is just the FIRST .005% but wait there's more. It's a Government stimulus package meant to be abused and used like that.

Wait... so refurbishing old train cars, at a cost significantly lower than buying new ones, counts as "abusing" the stimulus package?

wait... cut off what I was responding to to imply that I said anything about the refurbishing vs. new cars comparison. Amtrak in general is a money sucking black hole of graft and payola. When have they turned a profit?

Phosphorus: *sigh*

Who is John Galt?

Awww Phosphorus is a cute little free market tool commenting on railroad travel, obviously unaware that no railroad system has turned a "profit" without government help in the history of..

wait for this...

EVER

Excepting the days when riding a train was more of a novelty than a form of transportation, rail travel (like most travel) is not highly profitable and was nearly always a public service. When the car began to dominate the landscape the railroads scaled back the service in an effort to get people to stop riding. This is also the reason trucking became a huge industry, shipping LCL (Less than carload) freight was not highly profitable either. When you strip out the public service aspect of a company you get left with the railroad system we have now; long distance runs hauling large quantities of raw materials or the same sort of freight.

Sadly all forms of transportation have some manner of government subsidy, airports are constructed with tax dollars, bailouts for airlines, roads and highways, etc etc.. We all pay for that, yet Amtrak gets the most recognition as a supposed waste despite receiving the lowest amount of funding of any of the other transportation costs. If Amtrak received a quarter of the public money that is spent on airports we'd have a far nicer system than we do now. Amtrak was designed to only survive a few years, the hope was that it would be unpopular and quiet the American people that asked for rail travel to be saved. Yes, we the people asked for it after the freight railroads decided passenger traffic wasn't worth the time or effort.

Pointing a finger and saying "ZOMG WASTE!! JOHN GALT!" without knowing the history of how or why we are at the point right now doesn't help your case.

Nice troll though. ;)

Came for the Bubb Rubb references, leaving mostly disappointed.

Dafatone: Amtrak sucks!
We need more rail transit!

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.
=Smidge=

mattharvest: JusticeandIndependence: The work on the first completed car began on April 17 and required the hiring of 52 new workers, many of whom had lost their jobs at the former Chrysler plant in Newark and the General Motors plant near Newport, which will close later this month. Others had been laid off from their unions because of lack of work. About half the cost of each car's $1 million refurbishing goes toward workers' salaries, officials said.


Boy that sounds terrible.

Wait, let me make sure I understand your point: are you saying that it's more important that people are employed, as opposed to whether the work they're doing is of any value whatsoever?

This is akin to hiring people to dig and re-fill ditches. It's not going to help anyone longterm, and it's doing simultaneous damage to Amtrak's reputation while wasting stimulus money.

You want to hire those people? Great. Hire them to get the existing trains up to snuff (instead of having engines that fail when the train is full in the summer). Hire them to rebuild tracks to be more reliable. Hire them to set up a bullet train.

This is nonsense.

That's what they're doing, refurbishing the stuff Amtrak already has at a 2/3 savings over buying new. RTFA

GT_bike: joethebastard: GT_bike: and that is just the FIRST .005% but wait there's more. It's a Government stimulus package meant to be abused and used like that.

Wait... so refurbishing old train cars, at a cost significantly lower than buying new ones, counts as "abusing" the stimulus package?

wait... cut off what I was responding to to imply that I said anything about the refurbishing vs. new cars comparison.

The refurbishing was the "FIRST .005%" that you were talking about.

Amtrak in general is a money sucking black hole of graft and payola. When have they turned a profit?

Never. Why in the world would we expect them to? The government subsidizes every other way we travel.

ColSanders: I wouldn't mind taking the train if it were a bit faster. I looked into an Amtrak trip from Charleston, WV to Philly once. Twelve hours! I could drive it in eight. And I'd have to stop for red lights. I don't get it.

Yeah, but you'd have to drive. In a train you just sit around and get hammered on your smuggled booze.

I made the mistake of driving from Chicago to Cincinnati a few years ago to watch a weekend's worth of Cubs games. On paper, driving was cheaper and faster. But figure in parking for 3 days plus the stress of traffic, and it would have been about the same cost with less hassle to take the train.

That's what they're doing, refurbishing the stuff Amtrak already has at a 2/3 savings over buying new. RTFA

It's not what the stimulus bill was meant to go towards. RTF ARRA.

Man, after re-reading the thread, I still can't decide whether mattharvest is just a simpleton who regurgitated anti-government WHARRGARBL without actually reading what he wrote and comparing it to the actual article... or whether he wins this thread's Most Successful Troll medal.

It's like reading a WSJ op-ed that's directly contradicted by a news article three pages earlier in the very same paper.

If it is a troll, I have to say it's very subtly executed. Excellent simulacrum of a mindless free-market Randroid, and yet contradicted almost in its own text, or at least in the quoted text - resulting in a post that any pro-gov (or at least pro-Amtrak) debater just can't resist the urge to curb-stomp.

Or to put it more simply: 10/10.

mrmustard11: amylou: theorellior:

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?
Train kept a rolling
Train in Vain
Wire Train -
Train

Crazy Train
Got run over by a damned old train
The Gambler (on a train bound for nowhere)

Southern Pacific (Neil Young)
Night Train (Bruce Cockburn)
City Of New Orleans
About 1/4th of Bluegrass songs, etc...

The Grateful Dead song that goes "riding that train, high on cocaine"

Ideally, I'd like to see a rail system closer to that of Japan's JR Group. But in the mean time, Amtrak could get a real boost by having dedicated passenger lines instead of the current rail sharing with freight lines arrangement that makes Amtrak a piece of shiat. Improving average speeds on lines to above 100 mph would be a good start as well, but is almost unrealistic since the freight lines have priority over passenger rail.

Where is my bullet train from Disney land to the Brothels in Nevada like the Republicans promised!!!!

ColSanders: I wouldn't mind taking the train if it were a bit faster. I looked into an Amtrak trip from Charleston, WV to Philly once. Twelve hours! I could drive it in eight. And I'd have to stop for red lights. I don't get it.

you don't make several stops along the route to pickup and de-board passengers, nor do you have to make a connection in DC. the Cardinal ends in DC and then you have to get on a new train in DC - i'm sure there is a bit of waiting for the connection to Philly in DC.

i'd take the train to Dayton every year if i could... that's 8 hours i hate to drive.

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?

Midnite Train to Georgia.

Woo-HOO!

jaerik: Three million per car? Seriously? What the hell are they made out of?

I have a hard time believing other rail-heavy countries like Japan dish out three million per train car.

they spend more actually.

This is great news. A rejuvenated Amtrak should be able to lose money at least twice as fast while being half as efficient.

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?:

I was drunk
The day My Mom
Got out of prison

And I went
to pick her up
In the rain

But before I
Could get to the station
In ma pick up truck
She got runned over by a danged 'ol train!!!!

jaerik:
Then again, our trains are slow-moving, enormous lumbering behemoths of awesome American power. Maybe that's why our trains keep losing money.
GT_bike: joethebastard: GT_bike: and that is just the FIRST .005% but wait there's more. It's a Government stimulus package meant to be abused and used like that.

Wait... so refurbishing old train cars, at a cost significantly lower than buying new ones, counts as "abusing" the stimulus package?

wait... cut off what I was responding to to imply that I said anything about the refurbishing vs. new cars comparison. Amtrak in general is a money sucking black hole of graft and payola. When have they turned a profit?

they aren't allowed to make a profit... they aren't a private business.

Germ78:

That is "Casey Jones", they also did "Freight Train" both are folk standards.
"Freight Train" is one of my favorites, among others are;

"Canadian Railroad Trilogy" by Gordon Lightfoot

"City Of New Orleans" was written almost as the epitaph for railroad travel in the U.S.

"Streamline Cannonball" by Doc Watson as well as "Wreck Of The Old Number 9" and "Greeville Trestle"

xtragrind: I know that they have been promised a couple hundred million here to develop a train that will connect Columbus to Cleveland.

The train ride will take 6 hours one way and cost 20 dollars a person... Actual drive time is 2.5 hours. Sounds like a winner!!!

Go Obama stimulus plan!

How much would it cost to drive that distance?
Assuming 60mph,$3 per gallon and a 30mpg car the cost is $36.

mrmustard11: obviously unaware that no railroad system has turned a "profit" without government help in the history of..

wait for this...

EVER


that's not true at all. please refine your statement.

jjorsett: This is great news. A rejuvenated Amtrak should be able to lose money at least twice as fast while being half as efficient.

yeah not like the road system that makes the government money.


Oh wait it doesn't.

Phosphorus: Who is John Galt?

The millionaire capitalist who doesn't know what to do when his toilet clogs because the "perfect" society only contains those who are wealthy and only poor people unclog toilets but since they aren't rich they aren't allowed into the "perfect" society.

Mostly off topic, but... I've seen Amtraks problems in the Midwest ( for example ) come from the catch 22 of the declining heyday of rail: Amtrak doesn't have dedicated tracks, so service can be hugely compromised if conflicts occur from freight and industrial carriers who share the line.

For instance, I've traveled the Indianapolis to Chicago "Hoosier" line several times, and it was really excellent ( $19 each way... a damn good deal even if it's shorter to drive ) except that often you can be stalled on the tracks for a hour or more waiting for some other idiot to get underway down the line.

A limited stop ( not even bullet train, just higher speed zones ) dedicated rail line for many cities in the midwest could be really well done. I don't know how profitable that would be though...

Smidge204: Dafatone: Amtrak sucks!
We need more rail transit!

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.
=Smidge=

In theory, no.

In practice, the only way to make them both true is if we need more rail transit that sucks.

There are private rail companies that run freight all over the country. Any of them is free to start a passenger service any time they want. Yet they do not. Why? Not profitable enough.

But the government can operate something poorly and lose money for as long as they want.

So how can we get more rail traffic? Well the only way seems to be by expanding the Amtrack service which sucks.

How can we get Amtrack to stop sucking? Well there is no way. Just look at the possibilities.

1) Does Amtrak suck because it loses money? Well the only part of Amtrak that does not lose money is the Boston-NY-Philly-DC section. So we could shut down everything but that. But then there would be no Amtrak anywhere else, and people would say that sucks.

2) Does Amtrak suck because of poor service? Well, we could improve service, at a cost. Then Amrtak would lose more money and people would say that sucks.

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude:

One of my favorite things to do when I'm waiting around in Zurich airport for the train is to watch all the American tourists who saunter down to the platform for their 8:03 train at 8:07 and wonder where their train is.

One of my favorite things to do when I'm waiting around JFK is to watch all the Swiss tourists wondering where the trains are.

Davey Croquette: How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?:

I was drunk
The day My Mom
Got out of prison

And I went
to pick her up
In the rain

But before I
Could get to the station
In ma pick up truck
She got runned over by a danged 'ol train!!!!

Best. David Allen Coe song. Evar.

/was the bar anthem for the Cellar in Normal, IL before it closed like 8 years ago
//RIP Stadium Club/The Cellar
///ISU repperzent

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?

Train, Train
Take me on out of this town...

That is "Casey Jones", they also did "Freight Train" both are folk standards.
"Freight Train" is one of my favorites, among others are;

"I know you Rider" is technically also a train/Dead/folk standard song.

Best. David Allen Coe song. Evar.

You probably haven't heard him and Willie do "Homo Truck Drivin' Man"

Lamune_Baby: For those that actually do use the trains in the States, what's the best way to go as far as a good balance of comfort an affordability for a long trip? (Maybe not coast to coast, but at least across a few states.) Do you have to book early like a plane? Certain times of year? Middle-of-the-weeks? I'm getting pretty good working the airlines for deals, but the trains still stump me.

Booking 14+ days early for travel between the northeastern cities (Boston, DC, NYC, Philly) is usually cheaper than the day of. Fridays and Sundays are the most expensive days usually.

I haven't really found the Acela to be worth it as it only saves around a half hourand the addition of the quiet (no cellphone or talking) car on the regular train has been phenominal.

theorellior:

And now a lot of those rails have been pulled out for hike and bike trails. Oh, well!

I know you're probably new to all this, but part of the plan in MA and NH is to build the trails in such a way that they could be converted to carry rolling stock again on "short" notice. The vast majority of these old railbeds were completely overgrown until Deval Patrick and the other NE governors started coming up with rail trail plans.

It's great for the rail owners like Boston & Maine because it's public financing to do what they were unwilling to pay for in the first place, namely maintaining their own railbeds.

Not to mention the one that goes right past my apartment is getting a brand new bridge over an existing road that could, in future, carry rail cars. That's how it was specced, and that's what is being built right now.

Davey Croquette: Best. David Allen Coe song. Evar.

You probably haven't heard him and Willie do "Homo Truck Drivin' Man"

Well, it's only marginally better than "I'd like to fark the shiat out of you", "Don't bite the dick", and "Cum stains on the pillow". But really, the song takes me to a happy time and place, which is why I rate it so highly.

Davey Croquette: That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train.

Seriously?

I dont know if there is a rule against that but the employees dont seem to care.

What? An indifferent federal government employee? Impossible.

How about this- AMTRAK introduces "Booze Train to Nowhere" brought to you by AMTRAK, MADD, and Capt. Morgan.

They sell beer and wine in the cafe car. I can't imagine they'd care (or even know) if you brought your own.

Doesn't seem so bad considering the Social Security Administration recently dropped $700k on a "motivational management conference" at an Arizona resort.

Davey Croquette: Best. David Allen Coe song. Evar.

You probably haven't heard him and Willie do "Homo Truck Drivin' Man"

And to clarify, I haven't heard "Homo Truck Drivin' Man", but was comparing the dirty DAC songs to YNECMBMN.

roboczar: I know you're probably new to all this, but part of the plan in MA and NH is to build the trails in such a way that they could be converted to carry rolling stock again on "short" notice. The vast majority of these old railbeds were completely overgrown until Deval Patrick and the other NE governors started coming up with rail trail plans.

That's interesting. I didn't know that someone actually thought ahead. I just saw all the rail trails and thought it was shortsighted.

Lou Cypher: Doesn't seem so bad considering the Social Security Administration recently dropped $700k on a "motivational management conference" at an Arizona resort.

How the F U * K do you blow 3/4 of a million dollars sitting around a pool with your thumb up your ass for four days?

/*sigh*

Well, it's only marginally better than "I'd like to fark the shiat out of you", "Don't bite the dick", and "Cum stains on the pillow". But really, the song takes me to a happy time and place, which is why I rate it so highly.

It was a standard in my regular hang-out jukebox also. That and Y-M-C-A. I still get a little misty every time I see an Indian, Construction Worker, Leather queen, Motorcycle cop and cowboy having gay sex.

I am afraid of the trains. It means more city slicker assholes can get further out into the country each year.

One of the benefits of oil-dependency is that people who haven't packed like sardines into an urban environment get to continue on living with a slight increase is manual labor, and our poor old draft horses will be at it again.

I'd take it though if large city populations and the destruction of the environment they cause were to disappear.

I love when people complain about Amtrak. Do you complain about your city bus service? It doesn't make your city any money! Do you think a subway system turns a profit?

GT_bike: Davey Croquette: I take Amtrak because they don't look through your luggage too well. It's not like you can hijack a train and drive it into the Pentagon.

YES they do...they friggin stole my whole bag on the Surfliner from LA to San Diego I'd forgotten that one, they gave me a small fraction of the money I lost in my stolen stuff!

Amtrak stole your bag? Or did you leave it on the train and biatched to them that you were and idiot? It's not there problem to give you money for your stolen property if it wasn't there fault.

theorellior:
That's interesting. I didn't know that someone actually thought ahead. I just saw all the rail trails and thought it was shortsighted.

It's part of the standard lease language that the MBTA presented to MA cities that wanted rail trail funding. The municipality is required to secure any additional funding, and must comply with MBTA requests to add signs, postings and other improvements that they require. There is also a clause that gives the MBTA the right to revoke the lease and any of its provisions if it deems it necessary.

Basically we get a pedestrian path as long as the MBTA decides they don't need to expand service, but if they do, they have a nice well-maintained and refurbished road bed to work with, not to mention new bridges and other expensive infrastructure improvements.

Do you complain about your city bus service? It doesn't make your city any money! Do you think a subway system turns a profit?

The difference b/w a Amtrak and your local bus/subway is that subsidizing a local bus or subway lets local gov'ts avoid building more automobile facilities. So they're spending a dime to avoid spending a dollar.

Not so much with Amtrak. There is no such corollary. Amtrak could never carry enough people for it to be a valid strategy.