mattharvest: JusticeandIndependence: The work on the first completed car began on April 17 and required the hiring of 52 new workers, many of whom had lost their jobs at the former Chrysler plant in Newark and the General Motors plant near Newport, which will close later this month. Others had been laid off from their unions because of lack of work. About half the cost of each car's $1 million refurbishing goes toward workers' salaries, officials said.


Boy that sounds terrible.

Wait, let me make sure I understand your point: are you saying that it's more important that people are employed, as opposed to whether the work they're doing is of any value whatsoever?

This is akin to hiring people to dig and re-fill ditches. It's not going to help anyone longterm, and it's doing simultaneous damage to Amtrak's reputation while wasting stimulus money.

You want to hire those people? Great. Hire them to get the existing trains up to snuff (instead of having engines that fail when the train is full in the summer). Hire them to rebuild tracks to be more reliable. Hire them to set up a bullet train.

This is nonsense.

Don't worry you guys, noted business expert mattharvest is here to tell us which jobs are worthwhile and to give the railroad industry heads some pointers on the proper way to spend money.

PsyLord: What can you say... some rides need to be pimped...

Yo dawg, we knew you liked ridin' in trains so we put a locomotive in your car so you could ride while you're ridin'.

theorellior: BunkoSquad: /not to mention Journey

Don't stop believing.

I lol'd
Took the midnight train going anywhere

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?
Train kept a rolling
Train in Vain
Wire Train -
Train

Amtrak has a severe need for more cars. They have a large backload of cars that need to be refurbished, but havn't been because there was no monaey. Amtrak's existing repair shops are in Delaware and in Indiana.

So they are using there existing shops to repair there existing cars for far less than a new one. Isin't that besomewhat efficent for once?

/The NEC into Manhattan is the only way to go.

Here is a nice map of the US rail system, though i dont know how up to date it is because im pretty sure that route in the lower US from florida to california is no longer operating.

mattharvest:
Wait, let me make sure I understand your point: are you saying that it's more important that people are employed, as opposed to whether the work they're doing is of any value whatsoever?

This is akin to hiring people to dig and re-fill ditches. It's not going to help anyone longterm, and it's doing simultaneous damage to Amtrak's reputation while wasting stimulus money.


I would argue that fixing up a train gets you a fixed-up train, not nothing. The technology isn't obsolete or anything, scheduled trains are still cheaper than cars if run near capacity and cars can't haul freight or mail as well.

Something being old doesn't mean it's worthless, note how NASA is going over the old Atlas series rockets and intending to recycle much of the design.

//Would be nice if they worked on the track and getting it everywhere instead, though.

Jubeebee: I'm really hoping the Midwest line wins; I'd love to be able to ride up to Minneapolis for the weekend, drink myself stupid at their brewpubs, and not have to worry about driving all the way back on Sunday.

It's not about winning, it'll be divided up based on ready to go projects. I know Washington and Oregon are requesting money to grade separate busy crossings, finish renovations that ran out of funding at stations, add sidings and passing tracks, etc. Projects like that are more likely to get funding since they're more likely to already have impact statements completed.

dammit

http://mapmashapp.appspot.com/amtrak.html

MasterThief: mattharvest: (instead of having engines that fail when the train is full in the summer)

That's the thing. Aside from local commuter rail (which Amtrak doesn't handle) and the Acela between NYC and DC, these trains are nowhere close to being full. Intercity passenger rail has not turned a profit since air travel became available.

I take the NYC to DC (and back) regular Amtrack train a few times (admittedly only a few) a year and it's generally very crowded (most seats full). Might just be the time of day though.


You do realize that Amtrak only owns a small section of track for themselves up in the Northeast. This is one of the best taken care of sections of track in the country as it is maintained for high speed service (sorta). As for the rest of the country, well Amtrak runs on freight railroad's tracks which do not prioritize Amtrak at all. So all the delays, track problems, etc are on the shoulders of the parent freight railroad. Locomotive difficulties are another issue all together.

This. The train slows to a few miles an hour in parts of CT because of a couple of really old bridges that no one is allowed to expand. Also, in NJ, freight lines dominate the tracks so it's actually the most time consuming part of a trip from NYC to DC. Just plain silly.

/Still prefer the train to flight as long as the trip is 6 hours or less.

asmodeus224: mattharvest: JusticeandIndependence: The work on the first completed car began on April 17 and required the hiring of 52 new workers, many of whom had lost their jobs at the former Chrysler plant in Newark and the General Motors plant near Newport, which will close later this month. Others had been laid off from their unions because of lack of work. About half the cost of each car's $1 million refurbishing goes toward workers' salaries, officials said.


Boy that sounds terrible.

Wait, let me make sure I understand your point: are you saying that it's more important that people are employed, as opposed to whether the work they're doing is of any value whatsoever?

This is akin to hiring people to dig and re-fill ditches. It's not going to help anyone longterm, and it's doing simultaneous damage to Amtrak's reputation while wasting stimulus money.

You want to hire those people? Great. Hire them to get the existing trains up to snuff (instead of having engines that fail when the train is full in the summer). Hire them to rebuild tracks to be more reliable. Hire them to set up a bullet train.

This is nonsense.

Hur, you're dur

The work has value. It is cheaper to rebuild the rail car than get a new one.

Ya know, I can actually get behind this.

I have taken a train in the US exactly once. It was a great experience and I would totally do it again. I just don't travel between cities that are optimal train-distance from one another very often. My only complaint about the trip was that the first class car was pretty damn old and dingy. It could certainly have used some pimpin'.

And no wifi. WTF? I was shocked to discover that the train did not have wifi. It's not the 1800s any more, Amtrak!

theorellior: WWII good enough for you?

no. too many variables.

Seeing the results of the current budget tsunami will be enough to show whether it works or not. (so far, not)

gustakooka: Oh noes! .005 percent was used on something other than what you hoped for?

Floods start with one drop of rain.

TheRedMonkey: Floods start with one drop of rain.

I completely agree. We need to stop rain! I propose that we fire nukular missles at the clouds. Who's with me!

"Still donning their hard hats and safety goggles, the workers crowded in the main shop"

They gathered in the shop while they were still putting on their safety equipment? Why weren't the already wearing it?

I think you meant "Still wearing their hard hats..."

Don is a verb.

//pickety-pick-pick
//maybe the meeting happened at start-of-shift...

mrmustard11: You do realize that Amtrak only owns a small section of track for themselves up in the Northeast. This is one of the best taken care of sections of track in the country as it is maintained for high speed service (sorta). As for the rest of the country, well Amtrak runs on freight railroad's tracks which do not prioritize Amtrak at all. So all the delays, track problems, etc are on the shoulders of the parent freight railroad. Locomotive difficulties are another issue all together.


Some of the worst delays occur with the Pacific Starliner (which actually runs pretty full trains) where it runs over Union Pacific track. UP refuses signals & track status leave a lot to be desired and the controllers don't give a rats ass how long an Amtrak train waits. UP has consistently refused to upgrade that section (in & around Northern California IIRC) in order to alleviate the bottleneck.

theorellior:

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?
Train kept a rolling
Train in Vain
Wire Train -
Train

Crazy Train
Got run over by a damned old train
The Gambler (on a train bound for nowhere)

BlorfMaster: http://mapmashapp.appspot.com/amtrak.html

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/national.pdf

MasterThief: That's the thing. Aside from local commuter rail (which Amtrak doesn't handle) and the Acela between NYC and DC, these trains are nowhere close to being full. Intercity passenger rail has not turned a profit since air travel became available.


That's not the impression I got standing on the concourse at Union Station here in Chicago.

Amtrak after peak oil.

Pants_Optional:

This. The train slows to a few miles an hour in parts of CT because of a couple of really old bridges that no one is allowed to expand. Also, in NJ, freight lines dominate the tracks so it's actually the most time consuming part of a trip from NYC to DC. Just plain silly.

/Still prefer the train to flight as long as the trip is 6 hours or less.

Amtrak owns the entire NEC. Most of old bridges are being slowly replaced south of New Haven.

I want to take the amtrak to NC where they have a BBQ festival where the train just stops and they make an impromptu station for people.

Dafatone: Amtrak sucks!
We need more rail transit!
Amtrak sucks!
We need more rail transit!
Amtrak sucks!
We need more rail transit!

Or simple competition. If we had it not only would the cost of using it go down but jobs in that sector would go through the roof a few gaps in routes might get filled too!

I miss living in Europe being able to hop a train and get anywhere I want to.

I live in San Diego, have 5 kids and would love to take a train to the Granparents in Colorado Springs but there is no way to get there directly. I can get to NM then it's a bus to COS.

OR...if I can get myself to Sacramento or Emeryville I can take the direct route to Denver. Either way the added bus, air or car crap sucks.

I can't even take a train from San Diego to San Francisco or Sacramento it all involves bus rides one way or another. Unless they give me a Brazillian Leito bus...I do not do overland busses.

mattharvest: Wait, let me make sure I understand your point: are you saying that it's more important that people are employed, as opposed to whether the work they're doing is of any value whatsoever?

This is akin to hiring people to dig and re-fill ditches. It's not going to help anyone longterm, and it's doing simultaneous damage to Amtrak's reputation while wasting stimulus money.

You want to hire those people? Great. Hire them to get the existing trains up to snuff (instead of having engines that fail when the train is full in the summer). Hire them to rebuild tracks to be more reliable. Hire them to set up a bullet train.

This is nonsense.

FTA: "A new car would cost about $3 million, whereas to refurbish a car costs about $1 million"

So, they are keeping people employed, and saving money on purchasing of new rolling stock?

How is that nonsense?

*sigh*

Who is John Galt?

I take Amtrak because they don't look through your luggage too well. It's not like you can hijack a train and drive it into the Pentagon.

Kinda glad my father left Amtrak & went back to CSX before he retired. He was two people away from having to be the one to tell Congress why Amtrak was important and needed another pile of money to keep going.

/do miss the free train rides though

Woo Woo!!!

Pants_Optional:
in NJ, freight lines dominate the tracks so it's actually the most time consuming part of a trip from NYC to DC. Just plain silly.


the issue isn't freight trains - the are the tenant on the line - Amtrak owns it. the problem is congestion. there are dozens of commuter trains all traveling the line and using the same stations. there is only so much capacity. i bet you really notice the problem around Linden, right?

Phosphorus: Who is John Galt?

Some strawman character in a goofy-ass book, why do you ask?

Davey Croquette: I take Amtrak because they don't look through your luggage too well. It's not like you can hijack a train and drive it into the Pentagon.

That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train. Not so much with drinking it straight from the bottle, but at least you can bring a half-empty bottle and a tube of toothpaste without worrying about it. Or you can mix drinks in the bathroom.

dj_swim: gustakooka: Oh noes! .005 percent was used on something other than what you hoped for?

Came for this!

and that is just the FIRST .005% but wait there's more. It's a Government stimulus package meant to be abused and used like that.

davidphogan: Davey Croquette: I take Amtrak because they don't look through your luggage too well. It's not like you can hijack a train and drive it into the Pentagon.

That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train. Not so much with drinking it straight from the bottle, but at least you can bring a half-empty bottle and a tube of toothpaste without worrying about it. Or you can mix drinks in the bathroom.

Or in your seat as I have done on quite a few occasions. I dont know if there is a rule against that but the employees dont seem to care.

davidphogan: filth: How much stimulus money would we need to shut down Amtrak entirely?

Way too much, airport and roadway expansion is quite expensive.

It is in the few areas in which Amtrak is popular. Personally, I love the NE. I could spend almost any amount of time in NYC. I'm less fond of subsidizing the locals' morning commutes.

davidphogan:
That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train. Not so much with drinking it straight from the bottle, but at least you can bring a half-empty bottle and a tube of toothpaste without worrying about it. Or you can mix drinks in the bathroom.

you know you can take it to the club car and drink it there, right? i went threw two six packs on my way back to DC from Pittsburgh and not a single person said word one.

amylou: theorellior:

How many Train reference songs and Bands are there?
Train kept a rolling
Train in Vain
Wire Train -
Train

Crazy Train
Got run over by a damned old train
The Gambler (on a train bound for nowhere)

Southern Pacific (Neil Young)
Night Train (Bruce Cockburn)
City Of New Orleans
About 1/4th of Bluegrass songs, etc...

Devin172:
The Starliner used to be called the Coast Starlight (Starlate), that train has always been delayed thanks to UP. The California Zephyr has a better track record of being on time.

One of my favorite experiences on a train was riding the Zephyr from Salt Lake City back to Sacramento, Ca. About 75 miles east of Sparks, NV a locomotive broke down and we had to creep into a siding to wait for UP to send a locomotive to assist. This was in the late summer and the locomotive that was down supplied the HEP (Head End Power) so the train itself lost power. Sitting in the heat of the day, in the middle of nowhere there were few complaints and we musicians got together to play guitar for the other travelers in our car. Despite sitting there for a few hours, we all managed to have a great time and received a free meal from it all.

The greatest thing about a train is that unlike an airplane you're encouraged to walk around, socialize, eat, drink and just relax. Back when you used to have smoking sections you could walk down there late at night while others slept and join the late night crowd passing a bottle, sharing stories and enjoying the night.

asciibaron: the issue isn't freight trains - the are the tenant on the line - Amtrak owns it. the problem is congestion. there are dozens of commuter trains all traveling the line and using the same stations. there is only so much capacity. i bet you really notice the problem around Linden, right?

I have taken the train from dc to boston (not the express) and frankly I loved it. Its not the fastest way to get from point a to b, but the train has plenty of room and I don't have to deal with airport BS or traffic bs. If only they could extend the line further north, because I really dont enjoy taking the bus...

GT_bike: and that is just the FIRST .005% but wait there's more. It's a Government stimulus package meant to be abused and used like that.

Wait... so refurbishing old train cars, at a cost significantly lower than buying new ones, counts as "abusing" the stimulus package?

Is there anything the stimulus plan can't do?

Davey Croquette: I take Amtrak because they don't look through your luggage too well. It's not like you can hijack a train and drive it into the Pentagon.

YES they do...they friggin stole my whole bag on the Surfliner from LA to San Diego I'd forgotten that one, they gave me a small fraction of the money I lost in my stolen stuff!

mrmustard11: Back when you used to have smoking sections you could walk down there late at night while others slept and join the late night crowd passing a bottle, sharing stories and enjoying the night.

you mean interact with the other passengers. ewww.

sigdiamond2000: I read in another article somewhere else inside the internet that told me that half the money went towards the development of dining car menus written in Muslim.

You made my side hurt...

asmodeus224:
This is nonsense.

Hur, you're dur

Keyboard.
you owe me one

tweekster:
That's a pretty good deal. Also I like train travel so the sleeper car would be really fun for a longer trip. I use the Milwaukee to Chicago line about once a month.

You'll enjoy it. I took the Builder from Mpls to Whitefish Bay Montana. Sleeping car the whole way. The food was surprisingly good (I was expecting airline-style food, but we really enjoyed our meals). All meals are included in the ticket price, so all we had to do was tip the waiter and the porter. The staff is friendly and likes to just stop what they're doing and chat from time to time, which helps pass the miles on the boring stretches. And once you get into the mountains, the observation car has incredible views that you'll never see driving a car.


Oh, and to echo the majority, subtard is an idiot. He's biatching that amtrak is saving 2 million per car. I guess they should have spent that $120 million on shiny new cars that would do the exact same thing as the shiny old car.

I choo choo CHOOSE you

may have been said (didn't read all replies), but a highspeed line in the Dallas/Houston/Austin triangle, with a spur to San Antonio would be awsome.

/though I'm leaving Texas in December

That and they're okay with you bringing alcohol with you on the train.

Seriously?

I dont know if there is a rule against that but the employees dont seem to care.

What? An indifferent federal government employee? Impossible.

How about this- AMTRAK introduces "Booze Train to Nowhere" brought to you by AMTRAK, MADD, and Capt. Morgan.

joethebastard: Wait... so refurbishing old train cars, at a cost significantly lower than buying new ones, counts as "abusing" the stimulus package?

He prefers airlifting shrinkwrapped palettes of cash into Iraq for his governmental fiscal abuse.

asciibaron: you know you can take it to the club car and drink it there, right? i went threw two six packs on my way back to DC from Pittsburgh and not a single person said word one.

I think they just didn't want me mixing drinks in the club car. An employee suggested mixing it in the bathroom, and even gave me a cup with ice. I think it was just too obvious, given that it was a fifth of rum.