How funny. You criticize "the government" when it's really "the government" that makes this all happen. When a disaster strikes, the first responders are the victims. I assume you are trying to criticize FEMA, who takes on mitigation and recovery. Preparedness & response are to be handled on the local level. I think your idea of what FEMA is supposed to do is incorrect.

Also, this is a fantastic idea and I hope the other 49 states follow suit.

Either sign up or expect to be looted.

"Civic Guard comin!"

Weird. I would have thought a Maryland governor was part of the government.

Close, Ward, close.

But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hmmmmm where I live they are called the Fire Department.

Huh. I'd be interested to see how this turns out. I can think of a lot of obstacles and organization issues that would have to be solved before I put any hope in this scheme. Still... Interesting idea, and give it a shot (over there first, please).

I read the article and this is... actually a decent idea. How odd.

/got nothing

Why does this have to be a "program"? Isn't looting easier/less costly to the gummint?

/I mean hell, the cops even do it

So spiffy is good then.

Eh, wal-mart knows they'll get looted anyway, might as well make it look like charity.

Seriously, though, emergency management should be emphasized on the state level, and a part of the national guard. Take the federal out of FEMA - that's why it's slow and unwieldy.

Man, the headline for this thread made it seem like the second coming of OCP.

Also, how is Walmart going to help out when they will most likely be getting looted during the disaster?

Mongo cut wood: Hmmmmm where I live they are called the Fire Department.

Yep, the FD, law enforcement and some city gov't get trained yearly for this type of stuff. Heck, every county has an appointed 'head of emergency response person' to help quickly coordinate things between local and gov actions.

If it involves farking Wal Mart you can count me out. I will wait the extra couple days for the government to show than utilize anything involving that shiat bag company. Fark Wal Mart.

What a concept... people taking care of their own instead of waiting for the federal government to do it.....

Doing their part, Pooky, JayJay and P-nut will be offering discounted heroin to disaster victims in baltimore.

as a county government EOC person, i see this as awesome - they can have a list of liaisons for various needs and quickly get food and water to affected areas. that takes a huge burden off the Red Cross in terms of getting Disaster Services staff into the area in significant numbers.

i worked several Red Cross shelters during Isabel and saw how hectic the logistics can get trying to move needed items into an area. if the items are already in the area at a store, the can just grab those and get things going that much quicker.

hopefully businesses will see the win in this and sign up

AnubisMan: If it involves farking Wal Mart you can count me out. I will wait the extra couple days for the government to show than utilize anything involving that shiat bag company. Fark Wal Mart.

They're one of the most efficient companies in the world (and one of the few to weather this recession). I wouldn't mind them helping out with disaster relief.

AnubisMan: If it involves farking Wal Mart you can count me out. I will wait the extra couple days for the government to show than utilize anything involving that shiat bag company. Fark Wal Mart.

You say that now, but when your home is blown off its foundation by a tornado or shakes to bits during an earthquake, you'll be thankful SOMEONE was there to help, and you won't care who it was.

lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Wal Mart farking awful. not because of anything ethical, but because the place sucks. I'd just bear it and go before but I've only had to go twice this year, which is awesome. being in there feels like rolling around in the mud with the rest of the piggies. it smells, it's usually always junky (and no, I don't live in the ghetto) and full of weirdos. call me a prick, but I'd prefer to just shop somewhere that wasn't stuffed full of hillbillies no matter what state I'm in.

hate wal mart. hate hate hate hate

Di Atribe: Also, this is a fantastic idea and I hope the other 49 states follow suit.

Who the hell allowed good ideas to show up in Maryland state politics. I fully expect bi-partisan bickering to render such creative thinking impotent.

Shrinkwrap: They're one of the most efficient companies in the world (and one of the few to weather this recession). I wouldn't mind them helping out with disaster relief.

THIS.

It seems to me to be quite cost effective *and* smart to stage supplies at/near Wal-Mart distribution centers then have one of the most advanced logistics systems in the world deliver it where needed on demand.

Things like water, canned food, etc., could even be sold when nearing expiration through the retailer so that the stock could be kept fresh without wasting a ton of money. For that matter, just pay Wal-Mart to purchase and manage a certain stock level on their own. They'll know when/how to rotate it.

I remember a story where a couple of college kids from Vermont or New Hampshire loaded up their car with a crapload of bottled water that they finagled from local businesses. They forged press passes and got into New Orleans within a couple days after driving non-stop and passed the water out to people.

FEMA (FARK YOU FEMA!) took a couple of weeks to do the same thing.

When a couple of college kids can do a better job than the government, you know something is wrong.

Samwise Gamgee: Seriously, though, emergency management should be emphasized on the state level, and a part of the national guard.

For the most part, it is. However, that being said, it is up to the individual states to make the declaration of a "state of emergency" and to start using the NG and ANG as first responders to a natural or man-made disaster. No agency can outright go in and start doing shiat without authorization; it leads to problems with jurisdiction, broken communications channels and financial support.

Yes, I am a trained first responder for the state of CT. But, that being said, if I come across an incident, I am allowed to act within my boundaries to save life, environment and property but only in a defensive manner. Unless authorized, however, I cannot act as an agent of the government due to the many liabilities that come along with acting as a first responder. Once that authorization is granted to me by the state of CT, I am allowed to do more than just sit by and watch bad things happen.

What Maryland seems to be doing is partnering with businesses to include them in the process of acting as first responders, even if they are only acting as a source for requisition of materials. For an example of what they seem to want to achieve... hmmm... Say a tanker rolls over near a river and the fuel inside of it starts to head towards it. Walmart, being a member of this proposed 'Civic Guard', can provide the necessary materials to stop the flow of fuel into the river, without causing me to take out my credit card and wait in line to get the essentials materials to stop the flow of the tanker's contents.

awesome. now we can directly feed public money into walmart. who gets to choose what partner corporation? this sounds like its tailor made for corruption and graft.

maybe fema wouldn't be such a bad idea/agency if we appointed people that knew what they were doing to head it. instead of failed horse racers.

Di Atribe: Also, this is a fantastic idea and I hope the other 49 states follow suit.

Except we already have it - its called Infraguard.

/member

As a Florida state EOC person, I can tell you a few interesting things:

1. Florida is way ahead of these folks. We have ESF-15, volunteers, and ESF-18, business, taking care of these partnerships.

ESF = Emergency Support Function. http://www.floridadisaster.org/bpr/emtools/esf.htm

2. Wal-Mart follows our lead about responding to disasters. We've worked with them for years, and have a tight partnership with them.

3. The feds won't get involved until enough damage has been done, and that number is in the tens of millions. Don't criticize them for not being fast enough -- it's government bureaucracy, and if they didn't do it this way, they'd be derided wasting money responding to a few streets getting flooded.

4. Budweiser is a major business partner. They ship water to disaster victims directly.

Corporations with armies...

Can't wait for cyber eyes and a deck built into my brain.

IamMike: Corporations with armies...

Can't wait for cyber eyes and a deck built into my brain.

Just remember, don't get involved with anything called Screaming Fist.

IamMike: Corporations with armies...

Can't wait for cyber eyes and a deck built into my brain.

Arnold is already Governor, the great Ghost Dance isn't far behind.

bob_justice: 4. Budweiser is a major business partner. They ship water to disaster victims directly.

Soo... they ship cases of their beer?

/rather drink from the flooded streets, thanks
//the dysentery is worth not drinking another can of that crap

AnubisMan: If it involves farking Wal Mart you can count me out. I will wait the extra couple days for the government to show than utilize anything involving that shiat bag company. Fark Wal Mart.

You go ahead and drink that non-potable water instead of the bottled stuff they'll be giving out. That'll show 'em!

Shrinkwrap:
They're one of the most efficient companies in the world (and one of the few to weather this recession). I wouldn't mind them helping out with disaster relief.

If by efficent you mean they sell cheap chinese garbage, while cutting their costs by treating their employees like shiat and forcing their moral viewpoint on their customers, then yeah it is efficent. Good for them, but I'll have nothing to do with this pack of rat bastards.

Architecture Of Aggression: lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Wal Mart farking awful... call me a prick, but I'd prefer to just shop somewhere that wasn't stuffed full of hillbillies no matter what state I'm in.



You're better than the rest of us.

Came for the "I don't have to get dressed up like I'm going to Wal-Mart or something" pic of the newspaper article, and leaving disappointed.

Also, this is a great idea. Read more evidence about how well this worked right after Hurricane Katrina. While the government entities bickered and were busy hassling people and violating citizen rights wholesale, Wal-Mart was busy helping out by supplying medicine, water and food.

/don't necessarily love Wal-Mart
//just acknowledging reality

*rimshot*

No, they ship actual water:

Sounds like a decent idea, until I thought about this.

yogsothoth: awesome. now we can directly feed public money into walmart. who gets to choose what partner corporation? this sounds like its tailor made for corruption and graft.

I feel like during any "emergency" now, most are likely to arm themselves and sit in their living rooms after seeing the mayhem that happened in New Orleans. I know that's what I'd be doing. Fresh food and water is nice, but I don't think I want to shack up at a wal-mart with the "people" that live in my area. Superdome rape anyone? People won't call my thousands of cans of food, bottled water, and makeshift barriers crazy when something like that happens again.

Walmart has been a great help over the last several years in providing disaster relief assistance. I heard they had truckloads of bottled water (among other things)into NOLA before FEMA could scratch their asses.

gretzkyscores: Also, this is a great idea. Read more evidence about how well this worked right after Hurricane Katrina. While the government entities bickered and were busy hassling people and violating citizen rights wholesale, Wal-Mart was busy helping out by supplying medicine, water and food.

Agreed but where I live its companies like Target and Wells Fargo. Public/private partnerships tend to work very well if they are managed correctly and companies like Target and WalMart are usually the first to deliver needed supplies and personal when needed.

And by efficent I actually mean efficient.

bob_justice: As a Florida state EOC person, I can tell you a few interesting things:

1. Florida is way ahead of these folks. We have ESF-15, volunteers, and ESF-18, business, taking care of these partnerships.

ESF = Emergency Support Function. http://www.floridadisaster.org/bpr/emtools/esf.htm

2. Wal-Mart follows our lead about responding to disasters. We've worked with them for years, and have a tight partnership with them.

3. The feds won't get involved until enough damage has been done, and that number is in the tens of millions. Don't criticize them for not being fast enough -- it's government bureaucracy, and if they didn't do it this way, they'd be derided wasting money responding to a few streets getting flooded.

4. Budweiser is a major business partner. They ship water to disaster victims directly.

I can vouch for all of this. I was in a disaster response situation, and our state agency called on Florida for assistance. Those guys have their shiat down pat.

LMAO at half the people in this thread not even reading the article.

Di Atribe: How funny. You criticize "the government" when it's really "the government" that makes this all happen. When a disaster strikes, the first responders are the victims. I assume you are trying to criticize FEMA, who takes on mitigation and recovery. Preparedness & response are to be handled on the local level. I think your idea of what FEMA is supposed to do is incorrect.

Wow, over in one.

Seriously, why create a "bigger" government with "more bloat" by creating an entirely new agency? Why not sign a government contract with private suppliers like Wal-Mart to equip first responders in a disaster?

Oh that's right, because political grandstanding against moderate capitalist policies by doing essentially the same thing with more libertarian-friendly window dressing impresses antigovernment types.

I wish I used Firefox so I could Farky you. You're smart.

I'll echo the FARK YOU FEMA for turning away Wal-Mart trucks at New Orleans just because they weren't on the VIP List Clipboard!!

FARKING DISGUSTING.

Sure, why not let the corporations run the country openly? They all ready do anyway.

Can you imagine what a disaster it would be if the government ran the military?

Two by two, hands of blue, efficient corporations doin' what government can't do...I for one would like to welcome my new OCP overlords.

The general rule is that when a disaster happens, NO ONE is coming to help you. FEMA generally lets things play out then comes by in a few days to help rescue and relocate. The reality of NO/Katrina will happen again, the exact same way.

So, ordinary people in your own neighborhood trained to help in an emergency is a very good idea and probably the best you're going to get should something terrible happen.

puddleonfire: I'll echo the FARK YOU FEMA for turning away Wal-Mart trucks at New Orleans just because they weren't on the VIP List Clipboard!!

FARKING DISGUSTING.

This can never be repeated too often. You have private citizens and corporations (whom I normally criticize heartily) willing to help and they get turned away. WTF?

lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hey, The Autobahn and Volkswagen were great for the people of germany, I guess that means we can give hitler a pass on the genociding and world warring thing. Not really, but to claim 1 ideal excuses poor business practices, poor employee relations, and monopplism that forced many small business out of business is equally retarded.

AnubisMan: And by efficent I actually mean efficient.

This correction fails to make your argument any better. You are a blind, easily manipulated, partisan hack. Get off of Mom's teat and live a little. Mingle with people different from you, you may learn something.

Bender The Offender: lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hey, The Autobahn and Volkswagen were great for the people of germany, I guess that means we can give hitler a pass on the genociding and world warring thing. Not really, but to claim 1 ideal excuses poor business practices, poor employee relations, and monopplism that forced many small business out of business is equally retarded.

Nice godwin. Fail.

vonster: Walmart has been a great help over the last several years in providing disaster relief assistance. I heard they had truckloads of bottled water (among other things)into NOLA before FEMA could scratch their asses.

They tried to get in and FEMA told them to turn around.

On Monday, September 5, 2005, Army and Marine troops arrived in New Orleans to take over the disaster response. "Wal-Mart offered to help the Department of Defense with logistics, Jackson says, but the offer was not accepted. It was still hard to know who was in control; FEMA head Michael Brown still hadn't set up the joint field office intended to coordinate the federal, state and local response. 'Is it the city? Is it the state? Is it the DOD?" asks Jackson. 'We found ourselves trying to make inroads into a lot of different organizations...The joint field office was finally established 12 days after Katrina hit." (21)

I wouldn't put my trust into a group that the government may sweep aside during an event. I'm not counting on the government either to be honest. Supplies, basic planning and getting educated on what to do is your best bet. Groups like the Red Cross have classes and advice about what to have on hand.

FLMountainMan: AnubisMan: And by efficent I actually mean efficient.

This correction fails to make your argument any better. You are a blind, easily manipulated, partisan hack. Get off of Mom's teat and live a little. Mingle with people different from you, you may learn something.

How does my hate of Wal Mart make me a partisan hack? So you say if I go to Wal Mart I may encounter people different than me, what makes you so sure they will be different?

eddyatwork: You have private citizens and corporations (whom I normally criticize heartily) willing to help and they get turned away. WTF?

The thing is with that, is that if you allow people to go into the "hot zone", even to provide relief, they themselves can become victims. Where would they start with the relief? What plan of action do they have? Who would they "report" to? Where would they stay, eat and bathe? Who would be responsible if something happened to them, or they get injured and needed medical care? Looking at NO specifically, there were people just roaming the streets with guns and firing upon the military and other first responders. What would happen if Joe Helpsalot got gunned down? He would become another unnecessary victim in a scenario that was already pretty bad.

Look, I understand that people want to help, and welcome them, which is why Maryland is proposing this group. Good for them, I say. Give the people who want to help the training and involve them in the process.

The main goal of a first responder is protect life, environment and property, but also #1 right along with that is to not become a victim yourself.

Bender The Offender: lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hey, The Autobahn and Volkswagen were great for the people of germany, I guess that means we can give hitler a pass on the genociding and world warring thing. Not really, but to claim 1 ideal excuses poor business practices, poor employee relations, and monopplism that forced many small business out of business is equally retarded.

Are we talking about Starbucks?

penthesilea: I wouldn't put my trust into a group that the government may sweep aside during an event. I'm not counting on the government either to be honest. Supplies, basic planning and getting educated on what to do is your best bet. Groups like the Red Cross have classes and advice about what to have on hand.

Dammit, you're married.

bob_justice: 4. Budweiser is a major business partner. They ship water to disaster victims directly.

If I were a disaster victim, I might prefer beer to water.

/actually, I prefer beer to water anyway

farking Carcetti. If only Clay Davis had run.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

lefdeee: Bender The Offender: lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hey, The Autobahn and Volkswagen were great for the people of germany, I guess that means we can give hitler a pass on the genociding and world warring thing. Not really, but to claim 1 ideal excuses poor business practices, poor employee relations, and monopplism that forced many small business out of business is equally retarded.

Nice godwin. Fail.

Hey, you started the whole retarded line of thought. You imply the media has demonized Wal-mart and then offer one instance of socially resposible behavior as proof of the media's inaccuracy. If you're going to be that intellectualy dishonest, I'm going to break out the godwin.

RoxtarRyan: The thing is with that, is that if you allow people to go into the "hot zone", even to provide relief, they themselves can become victims.

The thing is they took it on themselves to do this. Frankly I'd tell FEMA to fark off and rather rely on some random joe-schmoe than deal with them. At least Joe-Schmoe might help me rather than tell me to go in the SuperDome with the rest of the savages. I'll stick to my own place thanks.

Bender The Offender: lefdeee: Bender The Offender: lefdeee: But Walmart is the worst thing in the world. Someone told me that once. I think they were on TV.

Hey, The Autobahn and Volkswagen were great for the people of germany, I guess that means we can give hitler a pass on the genociding and world warring thing. Not really, but to claim 1 ideal excuses poor business practices, poor employee relations, and monopplism that forced many small business out of business is equally retarded.

Nice godwin. Fail.

Hey, you started the whole retarded line of thought. You imply the media has demonized Wal-mart and then offer one instance of socially resposible behavior as proof of the media's inaccuracy. If you're going to be that intellectualy dishonest, I'm going to break out the godwin.

Methinks you need to get your snark-o-meter fixed, because his Boobies was just dripping with it.

eddyatwork: with the rest of the savages.

...Wow.

eddyatwork:

The thing is they took it on themselves to do this. Frankly I'd tell FEMA to fark off and rather rely on some random joe-schmoe than deal with them. At least Joe-Schmoe might help me rather than tell me to go in the SuperDome with the rest of the savages. I'll stick to my own place thanks.

Uh oh, somebody isn't a people person

Wal-Mart would be more than happy to turn over their bottled water, food, diapers, and in-store supply of other emergency provisions in exchange to make sure the rest of the store wasn't looted or "appropriated". I don't want Wal-Mart to decide who gets assistance and who doesn't.

Their warehouse people might be ok with logistics, but I don't want any "help" from their in-store staff. They make FEMA look like Speedy Gonzales.

How many times do I need to go to Wal-Mart to know they suck? I can find a lot of evidence of that from the parking lot -- carts everywhere, and a fire lane full of cars driven by "entitled" customers who think their "running in for a few things" is more important that the ability of a fire truck to park in front of the building.

stinky_pete: Their warehouse people might be ok with logistics, but I don't want any "help" from their in-store staff.

I'm pretty sure Walmart would be used mainly for resources. Training every single one of their employees as a first responder and to get them all HAZMAT Ops trained (hell, even HAZMAT Awareness trained) would never happen.

Translation = These guys are getting bookoo tax write-off's

Molavian: penthesilea: I wouldn't put my trust into a group that the government may sweep aside during an event. I'm not counting on the government either to be honest. Supplies, basic planning and getting educated on what to do is your best bet. Groups like the Red Cross have classes and advice about what to have on hand.

Dammit, you're married.

You just want space in my bunker.

Mongo cut wood:
Hmmmmm where I live they are called the Fire Department.

They will do a similar job. Just without all the extensive training, equipment, support and pay.

Of course it going to take a couple of years ago to rebuild FEMA. Everytime a Bush gets into office, it is the first organisation torn apart.

DROxINxTHExWIND: Architecture Of Aggression: lefdeee:
You're better than the rest of us.

yeah, because that's what I was saying. thanks for letting us know that you love wal mart though.

it's not like I shop at some stores that only rich celebrities know about in Grenyarnia. I apologize that I think wal mart is about as enticing as a trip through a pig farm. I hope for a speedy recovery of your delicate sensibilities.

Wal-Mart declares martial law, which makes it Wal-Martial Law.

Samwise Gamgee: Eh, wal-mart knows they'll get looted anyway, might as well make it look like charity.

Seriously, though, emergency management should be emphasized on the state level, and a part of the national guard. Take the federal out of FEMA - that's why it's slow and unwieldy.

I thought we were supposed to like it when the federal government puts its fingers into everything?

Oznog: Wal-Mart declares martial law, which makes it Wal-Martial Law.

stinky_pete: How many times do I need to go to Wal-Mart to know they suck? I can find a lot of evidence of that from the parking lot -- carts everywhere, and a fire lane full of cars driven by "entitled" customers who think their "running in for a few things" is more important that the ability of a fire truck to park in front of the building.

While you're upset about parking during the Zombie Apocalypse, I'll be eating Doritos and Food-In-A-Can to keep my butt alive.

Seriously.. if my apartment complex was destroyed in a disaster and I could not drive to my parent's place, I would accept any help that didn't ask for a BJ for payment.