obzerver: Did he put that "2-by-4" in his 4-by-4 truck next to the 6-by-6 joist?

/2x4
//2x farking 4
///They are actually 1.5x3.5 though
////I got wood

You probably know this but that's because it starts at 2" x 4" (or did historically) and the planing brought it down to the measurements. All wood sizes are given in the pre-planed stage AFAIK. I suppose this one could have been rough cut though and been a true 2x4...

I have my doubts as to it starting at 2" x 4" these days. It would seem to me that we've probably gotten pretty good at maintaining kilns and planing wood and we've also been pretty adept at cutting costs so finding out that they're really starting with a smaller piece and then shaving only 1/8" off per side would not surprise me.

*looks at pic in article*

Wow, Todd Bridges has really let himself go.


/whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Jesus?

Crewmannumber6: When did he leave Chicago?

/this Halloween I'm going as Jesus 'tap dancing' Christ

If you can somehow incorporate a cracker to be dancing on, that would be the best :)


I'm going as the Goblin King from the Labyrinth

Lenny Kravitz?


Aw'right kiddies, I've got a 2x4, I've got 'ta, got 'ta know: are you gonna' go my way?

maxwellhauser....

Biff was still trying to figure out how to fit into that wine amphora.

/hot like Joy's yin-yang poison

aagrajag: I know what the word means, genius

Classy!

Guess you were trying to Troll after all, And here I was trying to defend ya.....

boobsrgood: vertiaset: SOME Christians, a small minority of Evangelicals, believe this. The rest of the TWO BILLION Christians, do not.

Get it you ignorant atheist asshat?

Newsflash you fundie twatwaffle, there are nowhere near two billion christians, and that is what it says in their little book of bronze age mythology, so if they DON'T believe that crap, they're heathens.

Nice job Zamboro. Hilarious.
Get it?

Don't worry, Vertiaset, most people here think as you...

...we're all just Zamboro's alts... yes, the whole site! All those who disagree with you...

Vertiaset may be an established "athiests are the true fundies," 'tard, but he does raise an interesting question.

How many christians believe in The Rapture™?

Actually, boobsrgood, the "official estimate" of Christians worldwide would be 2.1 billion.

/TMYK

CrazyCracka420: [Pic: I suck ...]

AikiHawkeye: CapitolG: the Rapture is in the bible

[citation needed] Chapter/verses?

/X-tian
//Don't believe in the Rapture

Go get Big Book of Mythology, and read Revelations 4:1, 3:10. Corinthians 15:51-52. Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Amongst others.

CapitolG: aagrajag: I know what the word means, genius

Classy!

Guess you were trying to Troll after all, And here I was trying to defend ya.....

Ah. Sorry...

//Drunk

For many, this is Christianity:

Fritriac: CrazyCracka420: [Pic: I suck ...]

LOL nice

AikiHawkeye: CapitolG: the Rapture is in the bible

[citation needed] Chapter/verses?

/X-tian
//Don't believe in the Rapture


John 14:1-3 - "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

Revelation 3:10 - " Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth."

Thessalonians 4: 16-17 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Gyrfalcon

Englebert Slaptyback: HotWingConspiracy

Carpenters know how to wield 2x4's. Just be glad he didn't have his hammer on him.


You nailed it.


(Tell me you saw that one coming. Hope I didn't screw it up)


I didn't, but thank you.

The veal was great.


Glad to hear it - otherwise I'd have felt like a tool.

:-)

What part of this is wrong?

vertiaset: Fundie atheists like to paint all believers as young earth creationists, evangelical zealots or Christians of the "God said it, I believe it and that settles it" bumper sticker variety. Similarly, all Muslims are wild eyed militants just waiting to crash an airplane into your favorite tourist attraction.

The reality of course is much more complex. Individuals vary to a great degree in background, education and intelligence. Our understanding of man and his position in the universe within the framework of belief, evolves as we evolve as individuals. Many Christians do firmly believe in heaven and hell, in the virgin birth and the resurrection. Many others, such as myself, have little use for the miracle stories of the Bible and focus on the moral teachings of Christ.

I am of the belief that the miracle stories were grafted on to the teachings of Jesus at a later date. In any case, walking on water, raising the dead or turning water into wine are just so much window dressing for the real message of Jesus which was as simple as it was beautiful. Love one another. Forgive your enemies. Share what you have. The purpose of the law is to serve the interests of mankind not the other way around. You may know God individually and without the need for priests or temples and above all, live a life of righteousness.

If you get your understanding of Christian theology exclusively from Jack Chick tracts or Fark threads, you cannot expect your criticisms to be taken very seriously by anyone of education or intelligence.

If you want to live by the teachings, fine. I respect that. You can take a message away from something and live by that. But the Christian church bases itself on the fact that they think Jesus was a real guy and there's a clean line of succession from him to the current pope. Ignoring all the anti-popes and such during the medieval era, there's still the fact that Jesus never existed. He's as real as Red Riding Hood. The Gospels can't give a clear time and place of birth, which is weird considering they were supposed to be his closest friends and the details of his birth, death and resurrection seem to be tailored to absorb pagan sun worshippers.

/"I am a false prophet. God is a superstition."

Jesus could be on Fark right now.



He lured kids to him with mints.

CrazyCracka420: Fritriac: CrazyCracka420: [Pic: I suck ...]

LOL nice

The gun Jesus would use...

1)Perhaps he is the Jesus of Suburbia?

2)How the hell did this turn into a VtM thread? Awesome.

3)Zombie Jesus is a colloquial reference to Easter, aka, Jesus rising from the dead.

vertias: "I always suspected that you were entirely ignorant of Christianity and relied upon your cut and paste skills and bookmarked atheist blogs to form your "arguments".

Cut and paste from bookmarked blogs? What the fark are you talking about? Specific examples, please. I might point out that my questions were rhetorical as I was a Christian for most of my life.

vertias: "Thank you for admitting it. Christians are a diverse group and within each group, individuals believe as their consciences dictate."

Christianity isn't a generic belief in a vaguely defined God, that's Deism. If someone doesn't believe certain central doctrines such as the resurrection, they cannot meet the criteria to be called a Christian.

vertias: "You, like all fundamentalists see only black and white with no shades of gray."

But I'm not a fundamentalist. That word has a specific definition and you're using it to bludgeon atheists knowing full well it's not applicable. Your hope is that in falsely equivocating atheists with Christian fundies you can present them both as extremes, and moderate Christianity as a more reasonable middle ground.

vertias: "You see your perceived "enemy" as a monolithic entity with no room for individual thought or conscience. Like all fundies, you are intolerant of others who may disagree with you and your mind is firmly closed."

There's the fundie accusation again. Do you think anyone with all of their marbles takes it seriously? Could I say "No, I do not think of Christians as a monolithic entity and acknowledge the variety of denominations and personal interpretations it encompasses while nonetheless asserting that a few central doctrines are essential to Christianity if that word is to mean anything"? Would you pay attention or would you plow right ahead pretending you'd never heard it, unashamedly putting words in my mouth?

vertias: "In addition, you, as is also the case with fundamentalists of all stripes, have convinced yourself that you have a direct pipeline to the "Truth", that your particular brand of snake oil is the only true brew."

So you believe science is "snake oil" and that there are other methodologies for sorting fact from fiction? By all means, share these alternatives with the rest of the class!

vertias: "You are an unintentional caricature of the very "fundies" you like to mock."

EVERYONE! LOOK HOW CLEVER VERTIAS IS! You see, what he's done here is to turn the tables on those mean 'ol atheists by....wait for it.....equating them to the very "fundies" they like to mock! Because atheists don't like fundies, you see? So the comparison will be offensive to them! I didn't get it at first either but once the simple brilliance dawned on me it was like a whole new page had turned in the annals of formal debate!

vertias: "This makes you a figure of ridicule."

Read all of the posts after our initial exchange. Look how many people are ridiculing you.

That's not the Jesus I took a bath with.....

http://www.datejesus.com/

John 12
14 And Jesus found a young ass and sat upon it

**picture deleted**

StilettosandSkills: Actually, boobsrgood, the "official estimate" of Christians worldwide would be 2.1 billion.

You know how I can tell where that number comes from? Because of all the shiat stuck to it.

Besides, Vertias is here to inform us that most of them do not believe what it says in the bible anyway, so there goes that estimate all to hell.

CygnusDarius:

Ever played Vampire: The Masquerade?.



/Ok, that's not Caine
//Hot as a Toreador stripper

Well, I know what my next VTM character is going to be beyond the germ-paranoid Malkavian.

/I miss my gaming group

vertiaset: Zamboro is a fundie, pure and simple.

OK what is your Real login? Your posts stink of socks......

is this a new personalty for the poster formly known as Czar?

Vertiaset Many Christians do firmly believe in heaven and hell, in the virgin birth and the resurrection. Many others, such as myself, have little use for the miracle stories of the Bible and focus on the moral teachings of Christ.

Hold on there, Tex; you don't get to rewrite 2,000 years of Christian theology just to suit your own prejudices. Despite doctrinal differences over the True Presence in the Eucharist, universal salvation vs. the Election of Saints, the nature of the Trinity, and so on, Christians of all denominations are united in belief in the Atonement and the Resurrection. St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verses 13-17
If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised.
And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith.
Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.
For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised,
and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.

If you deny the remission of sins through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and His Resurrection, you cannot call yourself a Christian. That's THE central tenet of the Christian faith.

I am of the belief that the miracle stories were grafted on to the teachings of Jesus at a later date. In any case, walking on water, raising the dead or turning water into wine are just so much window dressing for the real message of Jesus which was as simple as it was beautiful. Love one another. Forgive your enemies. Share what you have. The purpose of the law is to serve the interests of mankind not the other way around. You may know God individually and without the need for priests or temples and above all, live a life of righteousness.

Thomas Jefferson beat you to it. What he didn't get is that Jesus's teachings aren't special; teachings of love and forgiveness are found in religious texts throughout the world. C. S. Lewis called this "the Tao", what he believed was God's imoprinting His natural law into human consciousness. Knowing the law is not a key to doing the law, according to Christian theology. A believer is justified through faith in Jesus Christ, not in frolicking in meadows.

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST.

You guys are REALLY arguing about whether or not Christianity is legit.....

...... in a thread that started out as something we can all agree on? That someone claiming to be the SON OF JESUS is BEATING PEOPLE WITH A FARKING PLANK OF WOOD?

Not to play moderator, but y'all are batshiat.

/ Atheist
// Loves religious folks and atheists, if they're cool
/// Thinks the real problem are people who like to intellectually bludgeon each other. It's a personality disorder. Get help.

veedeevadeevoodee

Dynamite! FTW.

I had forgotten all about that.

Who Would Jesus Drub?

Elektrohed: You guys are REALLY arguing about whether or not Christianity is legit.....

NO, maybe you need to start looking harder, Folks are arguing about wether or not Christians are legit, With the whole pick and choose the parts I like outlook.

Elektrohed: ..... in a thread that started out as something we can all agree on? That someone claiming to be the SON OF JESUS is BEATING PEOPLE WITH A FARKING PLANK OF WOOD?

Sorry, I meant..... that the above "IS HILARIOUS!"

vertiaset: "Not all atheists are fundies. Fundamentalism is not solely a Christian phenomena. Fundamentalists share common characteristics regardless of the brand of snake oil they are selling."

Fundamentalist atheist is meaningless as atheism has no fundamentals. It's not an ideology, it's a binary descriptor. There exist several organizations serving the interests of atheist voters, perhaps you could derive some sort of slur from one of their names?

I understand that atheists are often jerks to you. You retalliate by misrepresenting them as fundies because you imagine this will cause them offense. You know it's inapplicable just as I do but you've become so embittered and combative that you don't care anymore so long as you can get in your jabs.

vertiaset: "These are:

Simplistic black or white thinking.
Intolerance to the point of aggressive hostility to view points of the others.
Insistence that their views are the only right views.
Closed minds.

This could apply to Christians, Muslims Atheists or Linux users. A fundie is a fundie. Zamboro is a fundie, pure and simple."

I don't meet any of those criteria, though. I've explained over and over and over that your perception of me is mistaken. I acknowledge the variety of beliefs Christianity encompasses, the variety of denominations and of personal interpretations. This statement contradicts everything you've said about me.

I understand full well that there are shades of grey involved. Many of my favorite fellow farkers are deists, pantheists and so on, they're all over the map. I'm familiar with the sophisticated theology favored by more liberal Christians and while it's an interesting philosophical exercise, until it's supported by evidence it's no more credible than six day creationism.

As for hostility to other views, why do you make your views out to be undeserving of hostility? You imply that I'm simply enraged by any disagreement with my position, but that isn't so. You're presenting wild claims without a shred of evidential support, that doesn't fly in formal debate, in research science, or in the courtroom. I'm ready to agree with you, all I'm waiting on is evidence. You'll have a legitimate position when it's supported by evidence and not before. That's not intolerance, it's critical thinking.

CapitolG: NO, maybe you need to start looking harder, Folks are arguing about wether or not Christians are legit, With the whole pick and choose the parts I like outlook

I think you're right and I'm right, there are about twelve different back and forths going on right now.

Just sayin', I settled the "pick and choose" thing with my friends when I was 14 on the frickin' playground.

Hypocrisy is a very meaningless word. I don't give a shiat how a person chooses to live their own life vs. their beliefs. Really, how does that impact me? All I care about is how they act toward other people.

Immature = Attacking people for what they believe.

And, since I didn't get in on the first part of the thread:

BeefyT FTW :)

vertiaset: "It is a fringe belief among Christians although there is no way of knowing how many people actually believe in the rapture it is certainly a small minority."

I've heard the same said of creationism. I hope you'd agree that a creationist is likely to believe in the rapture as well?

vertiaset: Fundie atheists like to paint all believers as young earth creationists, evangelical zealots or Christians of the "God said it, I believe it and that settles it" bumper sticker variety. Similarly, all Muslims are wild eyed militants just waiting to crash an airplane into your favorite tourist attraction.

The reality of course is much more complex. Individuals vary to a great degree in background, education and intelligence. Our understanding of man and his position in the universe within the framework of belief, evolves as we evolve as individuals. Many Christians do firmly believe in heaven and hell, in the virgin birth and the resurrection. Many others, such as myself, have little use for the miracle stories of the Bible and focus on the moral teachings of Christ.

I am of the belief that the miracle stories were grafted on to the teachings of Jesus at a later date. In any case, walking on water, raising the dead or turning water into wine are just so much window dressing for the real message of Jesus which was as simple as it was beautiful. Love one another. Forgive your enemies. Share what you have. The purpose of the law is to serve the interests of mankind not the other way around. You may know God individually and without the need for priests or temples and above all, live a life of righteousness.

If you get your understanding of Christian theology exclusively from Jack Chick tracts or Fark threads, you cannot expect your criticisms to be taken very seriously by anyone of education or intelligence.

Ahhhhhhhh, you're a cherry picker. You refine your delusion just enough so that you can throw out all the extremely ridiculous bits still hang onto the merely ludicrous parts that make you feel good about yourself.

Elektrohead: "Thinks the real problem are people who like to intellectually bludgeon each other. It's a personality disorder. Get help."

Yes, let's ban argument. How will good ideas supplant bad ones? How will progress be made? Well never mind all of that, so long as we can have some peace and quiet! Am I right, or am I right?

Zamboro: Yes, let's ban argument. How will good ideas supplant bad ones? How will progress be made? Well never mind all of that, so long as we can have some peace and quiet! Am I right, or am I right?

Lol.... no, obviously not. Not argument. But there are certain arguments that are productive:

- Whom should we elect president?

- What type of sandwich would I like?

- Is it wrong to kick a homeless person in the nuts?

.... and then certain arguments that are 100% subjective.

- What is in another person's brain, and would I feel good if that were in MY brain?

Just farking pointless.

I'm an atheist, myself, but at least I'm conversant with Christian history and theology, which is far more than Vertiaset can claim. Now if he were to say that there are serious variations between Biblical codices that could affect the validity of certain doctrines or that because we don't have the original holographs of the scriptures we can't be certain that modern-day beliefs were ever intended by the original authors, he might have a decent argument.

But to say that belief in the Atonement is optional for Christians is nuts. Despite the earlier disputes between competing schools of thought about the nature and mission of Jesus (a human who became God? a God who pretended to be human? An emanation of God who was fully divine but not equal to the Father? Both God and Man at the same time? Two wills or one
will?), the issue was settled by the Council of Nicea in 325.

vertiaset: [A fundie is characterized by ...]

Insistence that their views are the only right views.


Uh... Hum. Okay, let's think this through. Take several propositions:
1) There is no god. There is no afterlife.
2) There is exactly one god. He will someday send the Messiah to Earth to free his chosen people. You must follow the laws he set down to be saved from (hell? Oblivion? Help me Tatsuma, I'm fuzzy here.)
3) There is exactly one god. He long ago sent his his Messiah to Earth, and you must accept that to be saved from Hell.
4) There are a buttload of gods. You'll end up in the same afterlife no matter what you do, but you'll get a better seat if you're good.
5) There are a buttload of gods. You'll go to Hel if you die like a coward, or Valhalla if you fall in battle.
6) There are a buttload of gods, except they're all really one god. You will be reincarnated after death, though you may spend some time in a temporary heaven or hell, and the quality of your next life is determined by your actions in this one.
7) It's irrelevant whether there are zero or a million gods. You'll be reincarnated when you die, and that sucks. Eventually you can free yourself from this cycle of suck.


Now, take any one of those propositions. "Believe" it for the sake of argument. Now, take any other one and believe that also.

Congratulations, you're insane. So, by your measure, everyone is either a fundamentalist, believes nothing at all, or believes several things which directly contradict each other?

vertiaset: The "Rapture" is a belief, rejected by mainstream Christianity, but accepted by a minority of Evangelicals mostly in the United States that the "elect" will be transported bodily into heaven in the "end times". It is based upon, not any teachings of Christ


Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

You sure about that, are you?

CrazyCracka420: Crewmannumber6: When did he leave Chicago?

/this Halloween I'm going as Jesus 'tap dancing' Christ

If you can somehow incorporate a cracker to be dancing on, that would be the best :)


I'm going as the Goblin King from the Labyrinth

I have Johnny Cash on in the next room. Jesus is dancing to "Walk the Line" and I'm cleaning coffee off of the keyboard.

vertiaset: Zamboro

vertias: "I always suspected that you were entirely ignorant of Christianity and relied upon your cut and paste skills and bookmarked atheist blogs to form your "arguments".


Cut and paste from bookmarked blogs? What the fark are you talking about? Specific examples, please.

Many of your posts in various atheist threads are word for word, with sometimes small variation to your posts in other threads. Do you deny this? Moreover, I have called you out before on your knowledge of, not just the Bible and Christian theology, but on the writings of Dawkins and Dennett. It is clear that you have either not read them or just gleaned the rough outline from the writings of others. This is why I often make fun of you.

I might point out that my questions were rhetorical as I was a Christian for most of my life.

Yes, you have the small minded zealotry of the recently converted. This makes sense.

You're really not helping out your image with the ad hominem attacks.

Somebody fix my photoshop butchery

Elektrohead: "Lol.... no, obviously not. Not argument. But there are certain arguments that are productive:

- Whom should we elect president?

- What type of sandwich would I like?

- Is it wrong to kick a homeless person in the nuts?

.... and then certain arguments that are 100% subjective.

- What is in another person's brain, and would I feel good if that were in MY brain?"

I agree, but I don't think that the religion debate belongs in the latter category. Over the past ten years the number of "unaffiliated" rose from 8 to 15% nationwide, while the number of Christians dropped from 86% to 76%. The number of self identified atheists rose in every state over that same period. It was the only group to show growth in every state.

Believers may pretend to be immovable, but they have the same rational faculties as anyone else. They may refuse to budge during argument but evidently a great many research the matter privately and are disconvinced of their religious convictions. Fruitless though it may appear to the casual observer, the religious debate has been very productive indeed.

vertiaset: "Yes, you have the small minded zealotry of the recently converted. This makes sense."

Recently? I'm 25. It was my education in anthropology and neurobiology at a private Episcopalian academy that disconvinced me of my beliefs. I was 18 at the time.