ijason: that is the dumbest suggestion i have EVER heard. i can't begin to imagine the disaster of trying to use a length of rough pipe filled with fricking bottle caps. you do understand than a bullet needs to pass through this pipe and exit at exactly the location you drilled the second hole, don't you? and what do you think happens when the bullet deforms or fragments or deflects off any of these umpteen bottle caps you've stuck in this thing?

Just because you can't fabricate for shiat doesn't mean the rest of us can't. Baffling is the key.

Also, just because someone will likely say something to this effect, it only works on subsonic rounds.

@ buckler, i find it intriguing that the people who seem to be most interested in stock-piling weapons, and with the need to go and take control of resources before others can, most often (and there are always exceptions) seem to be the same individuals who are hardly physically fit enough to live a nomadic life-style, or socially adept enough to negotiate themselves into a group dynamic.

i think you have a very good point, across the board people knit to form a tighter community in the face of adversity. especially if there is a readily identifiable antagonist or threat. humans are naturally a pack animal, teaming up with others is almost always the best chance for survival.

/ exception would probably be if you were trying to elude other humans.

buckler: taurusowner: I guess what I'm saying is, yeah you can be dehydrated and in desperate need of water to live. OK. How are you going to get that water without getting shot by other survivors first?

You take a pessimistic point of view. In my experience, people who've suffered communal disaster tend to help one another out. I would expect that survivors would work together to assemble the manpower and tools to dig a well and install a pump; furthermore, they would build and share shelters and food supplies to insure the common good. People aren't as mercenary as you might think.

That may very well happen after a few months of survival when most of the world population is dead, cities are mostly empty, and people are thinking about the long term future. What I mean is the first few hours after the big event starts. Whatever causes this outbreak of chaos is going to look like the LA riots, only globally. People are not going to be thinking about digging wells and building a new life. They are going to be dodging rioters, gangs, buildings on fire, police and national guard trying and failing at regaining control, looting, theft, murder, and an "every man for himself" attitude. The working together for a new life only comes after you survive that.

ijason: another observation would be that as much as we would all like to think that a superior rifle with obnoxious range and kick-ass stopping power is the best... but the reality of it is that a .22 rifle with a decent scope is going to be the best bet for 99% of the shooters out there. the load is wicked accurate, and can easily pop the skull of a person at a longer range than you're probably going to be able to accurately aim.

Have you ever hunted with a .22? It's a lousy stopper on prairie dogs and tree squirrels, I certainly wouldn't want to depend on it for anything that was bigger and more of a threat to me.

Not to mention that outside lubricated bullets don't travel well, rimfire primers aren't noted for reliable ignition, rimmed cartridges don't feed as well as rimless in autoloaders, and rimfire autoloaders tend to be a lot more sensitive to dirt than gas operated centerfires.

I know, tons of people love to tell about their 10/22 or Marlin 60 that's run flawlessly since 1973. I won't call them liars, but I don't want to count on myself having that kind of luck.

Nobody ever seems to take crowds into consideration when forming their apocalypse plans. It's always "I'm gonna go to Cabela's to get some guns, then over to the grocery store for supplies" or "I'm gonna drive to my cabin in the woods. I know I can make it out there". But what do you do when you find 400 other people looting Cabela's? 10,000 cars gridlocking all the roads to your cabin? What kills faster? Dehydration or a brick to the head from another looter?

@ ronaprhys, since when is dumping a handful of metal bottle caps into a pipe "baffling". the critical step you're missing is that the baffling needs to be done in a way that DOES NOT OBSTRUCT THE BULLET.

also, a hollow pipe filled with hard impermeable objects and only a single hole would most likely blow apart when you fired the gun. silencers do not work by absorbing the gasses, they dampen and slow it to reduce the volume. a silencer needs to have vents adequate to allow for all of the gasses they have absorbed to escape... they can't simply negate the produced gasses.

if you do a few minutes research you'll find silencers are usually filled with a soft absorbent material, often saturated in oil to absorb as much gas as quickly as possible. metal bottle caps have no capacity to absorb gas as far as i recall.

/but then again, i might just not be fabricatin' them right.

@ JesseL, i have to admit, i don't hunt. just use the 10/22 at the range. ha! good point about reliability, i seriously blame the fact that the only loads i can find are hollow point. wtf, i just want a FMJ round to plunk some targets. i think it's the HP that jams the autoloader.

/but were you hitting the squirrel in their little squirrel BRAINS?

OK, I've got a few questions:

1) What caused the apocalypse?
2) How did central LA not turn into glass or a plague-yard?
3) Did they have any warning?

I'd probably head for a Super Wal-Mart with 15-20 people in this situation. The local one has a Sam's on the same ground for even more fun. Lots of basic tools, easily fortified building, food on site, and enough space you could grow things on the roof or in the store while signalling for help. Also the auto departments and sportsman sections give you plenty of quick access to ammunition and petrochemicals, and with a still or basic distillation set you could get very creative with the chemicals inside. Radios on site would allow for communication and electricity would not be so hard to come by once generators and batteries were used, they also store lots and lots of water in the food section. Get a few engineers, a doctor or two (with the pharmacy right there for extra points), along with some cops/fighters and about a metric ton of toilet paper as a trade item then you're set for a while.

@ JesseL, your familiarity with the advantages of rimfire/center etc exceeds my own. i take it that .22 ammunition is ONLY available in the rimfire? or is that just the one that ruger uses?

when you're talking about rifle munitions, seems like .223 is almost as light as .22. and should be nearly as plentiful.

my motto is: how much do i have to carry? how much is there out there once they stop making it?

ijason: /but were you hitting the squirrel in their little squirrel BRAINS?

Not usually, no. I do know though that human skulls aren't always that easy to get through with a soft, low-velocity bullet (especially the forehead). Even when the bullet does get through the skull, don't count on it doing a lot of damage. Don't buy the myth about .22s bouncing around inside the skull like a Ronco Inside-The-Shell Electric Egg Scrambler.

ijason: @ ronaprhys, since when is dumping a handful of metal bottle caps into a pipe "baffling". the critical step you're missing is that the baffling needs to be done in a way that DOES NOT OBSTRUCT THE BULLET.

also, a hollow pipe filled with hard impermeable objects and only a single hole would most likely blow apart when you fired the gun. silencers do not work by absorbing the gasses, they dampen and slow it to reduce the volume. a silencer needs to have vents adequate to allow for all of the gasses they have absorbed to escape... they can't simply negate the produced gasses.

if you do a few minutes research you'll find silencers are usually filled with a soft absorbent material, often saturated in oil to absorb as much gas as quickly as possible. metal bottle caps have no capacity to absorb gas as far as i recall.

/but then again, i might just not be fabricatin' them right.

I simply don't think you're picturing this correctly. You've also got to think of twist offs like those on alcoholic beverages. The pipe needs to be sized such that there's not movement of the caps themselves. The caps need to have a hole punched in them larger than said bullet. The caps are also nested in to each other (spooning and all). In the short period of time that the bullet is actually in the silencer, the worry of splintering doesn't bother me too much*. Additionally, the extra space between said round and the diameter of the pipe will help dissipate the noise. It probably won't work nearly as well as an actually designed and manufactured silencer - I'll give you that. But it'll do better and likely last longer than a 2 liter bottle taped on the front.


*Note that this is only something I'd be doing as a last resort.

JesseL: Not usually, no. I do know though that human skulls aren't always that easy to get through with a soft, low-velocity bullet (especially the forehead). Even when the bullet does get through the skull, don't count on it doing a lot of damage. Don't buy the myth about .22s bouncing around inside the skull like a Ronco Inside-The-Shell Electric Egg Scrambler.

I think it would IFF you managed to go through soft tissue first and then impacted the back of the brain cavity.

@ JesseL,. Really? Since when?

since you're trying to have a silencer that's effective as possible. and, depending on how large your silencer is going to be. if you want a single-port silencer you'll need one with enough room in it to drop the pressure from several thousand psi down to under 100. you'll need several multiples of the air-capacity of the barrel to do this. so if you want a small silencer, they're often filled with a soft and oil-soaked material.



and, the previous statement was about building one "on the run" out of things you could find at a hardware store. i think we can both agree simply filling a bit of pipe with metal bottle-caps is a poor idea. and that's being generous.

you could easily fudge a silencer by cross drilling a length of pipe big enough to fit over the front of the gun (we're assuming rifle). and then wrap that drilled pipe in steel wool and spray it down with light machine oil, then sleeve a bigger length of pipe over the whole thing. and i'd go with pvc instead of steel for the outside pipe, to keep the weight down.

ijason: the thing i never see properly addressed in the zombie apocalypse scenarios is who the FARK is running the power plants? anyone who thinks that they're going to survive any kind of "doomsday" situation better get out a map real quick of the local and up-wind nuclear power plants are.

This was actually mentioned in "the world without us." Electric goes out, machinery that relies on either electric power (for cooling pumps, etc) or a nice shutdown of the electric to power off, will go haywire, overheat/burn/whatever, and cause issues.

taurusowner: Nobody ever seems to take crowds into consideration when forming their apocalypse plans. It's always "I'm gonna go to Cabela's to get some guns, then over to the grocery store for supplies" or "I'm gonna drive to my cabin in the woods. I know I can make it out there". But what do you do when you find 400 other people looting Cabela's? 10,000 cars gridlocking all the roads to your cabin? What kills faster? Dehydration or a brick to the head from another looter?

Also this, but usually it comes up in the "what would you do if the world is to end tomorrow?" scenarios. In that case, it really all depends on "who exactly knows that's the situation?" Because all the "I'd go home and see my mom in another state" "I'd call all my relatives" "I'd go to Six Flags" stuff goes out the window when everyone is (1) mass panicking and more basically (2) not going to work to run any infrastructure.

Seems to me that "hole up silently where I am and wait a few days" might be a good plan (assuming you've got basic water/earthquake food, etc) THEN start with the rest of the stuff. Let that first day utter mass panic calm down.

ijason:
and, the previous statement was about building one "on the run" out of things you could find at a hardware store. i think we can both agree simply filling a bit of pipe with metal bottle-caps is a poor idea. and that's being generous.

you could easily fudge a silencer by cross drilling a length of pipe big enough to fit over the front of the gun (we're assuming rifle). and then wrap that drilled pipe in steel wool and spray it down with light machine oil, then sleeve a bigger length of pipe over the whole thing. and i'd go with pvc instead of steel for the outside pipe, to keep the weight down.

Yeah - cause that's exactly how I've explained it. I think I've gone into further detail since then, no?

@ Ron,. well, if you change the description of what you're talking about, of course it changes how it will function.

bah, stupid fark ate my picture, so here it is again.


/not mine, but a good example of how small a multi-ported silencer can be.

ijason: @ JesseL, your familiarity with the advantages of rimfire/center etc exceeds my own. i take it that .22 ammunition is ONLY available in the rimfire? or is that just the one that ruger uses?

When people say ".22", they're almost always talking about rimfire .22 Long Rifle and it's the same thing used in just about any "22" you'll find today. The closest centerfire cartridge would be .25 ACP, which is more reliable in functioning but generally even worse for terminal performance and is pretty well exclusively chambered by pocket pistols.

.223/5.56x45mm is quite a bit heavier/bulkier than .22 long rifle, but it is still easy to find and vastly outperforms .22lr every way, and is still a lot smaller, lighter, and cheaper than stuff like .308 or .30-06.

I've got more .22 rifles than I can keep an accurate count of (see my profile for most of them), but they'd be among my last choices for fighting.

itazurakko: Seems to me that "hole up silently where I am and wait a few days" might be a good plan (assuming you've got basic water/earthquake food, etc) THEN start with the rest of the stuff. Let that first day utter mass panic calm down.

It really depends on the situation. I think that's a big problem with all of these arguments we see here. Everyone wants to break it down into a, "If you don't do this, you're farked.". That's not necessarily always correct. If you live on the outskirts of town and don't plan on taking major highways, you might be able to get to your cabin. If it's a zombie-thing where almost everyone's a zombie, Cabelas could be an option (since almost everyone is dead, no worry of looters).

If you're in the city and egress isn't possible, then holing up would be a good idea. In the burbs, however, there are way too many windows in everyone's home that need to be boarded up (and therefore advertise your presence to looters and potentially zombies).

I think running through the scenarios of:
1 - get safe
2 - get water
3 - get food
4 - get shelter
5 - get armed

not a bad order. As stated in this very thread, however, the situation at hand can change that order. Shelter may be more important if the weather's bad. Safety is of utmost importance if you're likely be attacked. If it's zombies everywhere, shelter may equate to safety (temporarily).

ijason: since you're trying to have a silencer that's effective as possible. and, depending on how large your silencer is going to be. if you want a single-port silencer you'll need one with enough room in it to drop the pressure from several thousand psi down to under 100. you'll need several multiples of the air-capacity of the barrel to do this. so if you want a small silencer, they're often filled with a soft and oil-soaked material.

Can you find an example of a silencer filled with a soft and oil-soaked material? I've seen plenty of them that can run with some water, oil, or grease squirted in for extra effect (the gas is cooled by the evaporation of the added stuff), and I've heard of some that use tough plastic "wipes" that are pierced by the bullet the first time it's used instead of machined baffles.

Interesting sidenote, I got to try out a suppressed H&K USP 45 last Saturday. It had a little too much oil added before I used it. It was really quiet, but very smoky and messy.

ijason: @ Ron,. well, if you change the description of what you're talking about, of course it changes how it will function.

bah, stupid fark ate my picture, so here it is again.


/not mine, but a good example of how small a multi-ported silencer can be.

Dude - I didn't change my description, I went into more detail. In fact, I addressed the post to you with a quote of your post. Scroll down (or up) and see the additional detail.

jdog71: jdog71: I'll just leave this here. Anyone interested in post apocalyptic epic fiction should check it out. Its a fantastic series.

Emberverse Series (new window)

ftfm

I read the first one...I have a few lazy weeks this summer maybe I'll read the rest
/Have knowledge and skills to trade (emergency first aid/ practical herbal coumpounding skills and chemistry, spinning and weaving, farming)
// the war with the feudal thugs was interesting. Forgot to cover the sky...
///we are a social animal after all

Question for you Ballistic Farkers^TM:
I have many shot guns however my only rifles are .22's. Would it be better to bring the .22 and a brick or two? A 1000 rounds only weight a pound or two and the range is MUCH better than my shotguns. Would a .22 round penetrate a zombie's skull (enough to drop it)? I heard a weapon expert once say that if a .22 isn't dead it can either spin off or glance off the average human skull. Would it be better to take my 6 shell Mossberg for close combat [buckshot] and the .22 for long range engagements? I mean, if the people from Dawn of the Dead had a case of .22 bricks they could drop every zombie in that parking lot over the span of a few days right?

buckler: taurusowner: The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Gotta re-order your priorities. Water first, then shelter, then food. Sanitation is nice after that, but not required. If you can establish a community after that, more power to you. After that, you worry about sharing or scavenging weapons.

Oo, no, sanitation is top of the list. If your latrines are too close to your water supplies, everything else will be a moot point when your people are all doubled over from e coli poisoning and the raiders come through and decimate your compound.

Although your idea might have been that "sanitation" is more of a discipline than an item, so in that case you're correct. In a crisis situation, it will be necessary to tell idiots not to crap in the water supplies, if you're using a well or stream and not bottles or a cistern.

lilbordr: Question for you Ballistic FarkersTM:

A .22 is better than a sharp stick, but your Mossberg is definitely a better choice when dealing with any kind of close range engagement.

@ Ron, adding more detailed description to what you previously simply described as "a bunch of bottle caps down a pipe" (paraphrased) IS changing the description. if i first tell you i saw a large brown thing, and then later explain that i saw a large brown bear... i have changed the description even though the bear is indeed large and brown.

i admit i did assume you were describing an 'on the run' type situation, since you described the silencer without mentioning any machining or real planning. and, this IS a zombie attack thread, so i would assume most ideas proposed are somewhat ad hoc.

i readily admit that your more detailed explanation sounds much less likely for calamity. but i still would be concerned about such flimsy metal as bottle-caps deforming after a few shots.

@ JesseL, currently my google-fu is failing me to find you some good examples of the filled silencers. the first place i saw them was on a tv show about SAS troops doing wet-works during ww2, and they found that filling the silencers let them drastically reduce their size, while increasing their effectiveness. on that show the insert looked almost like a scrubbing pad, or very thin sponge. it was a metal mesh about a 1/4" thick and sized to wrap completely around the inner barrel of the silencer without overlapping. and then the outer housing would sheath over it and keep it in place.

i would imagine if you could slow the exhaust, without needing as much expansion room, you'd be able to use the silencer without modifying the gun... whereas normal guns (gas operated, anyways) would need modification to use a standard expansion silencer.

/lay opinion.

Gyrfalcon: Although your idea might have been that "sanitation" is more of a discipline than an item, so in that case you're correct.

That's pretty much what I was getting at, yeah. Teaching folks to dig a cat-hole far away from the settlement when they have to poo, as opposed to building a huge isolated latrine and bathing facility.

Olddinosaur's quick and dirty cheapie silencer:

1. Procure a length of 2" PVC pipe 2' long.

2. cap the ends with sliced off sections of an old inner tube.

3. Secure the edges with radiator clamps or duct tape.

4. Cut a slit in one end much smaller than your gun barrel, so it will have to stretch.

4. Practice with it so you know how to apply it when the time comes.

5. Use it once and throw it away, taking pains to dismantle it first.

The programs on Discovery have gone to shiat.

That is all.

because good is dumb: would like to show you how to survive

found you a sponsor

The last Cormac McCarthy book I read had a scene giving the term "baby back ribs" an entirely new meaning...

/good book tho', if bleak
//understatement both ways

Two Nifty Zip Guns From Olddinosaur:

1. Procure a length of 3/4" schedule 80 pipe, threaded on one end.

2. Drill a hole 1/16" diameter dead center in a schedule 80 pipe cap.

3. trim off a 6d common nail so it will just barely make contact with a 12 ga. shotgun shell screwed into the pipe. Leave about 1/8" of travel for the nail/firing pin.

4. For a hammer, take any heavy object and wrap it to the handle with rubber bands, so that it strikes the firing pin when the time comes.

5. For safety, wrap the whole thing in several layers of duct tape, so it will not cause injury when (not if) it blows up in your hands.

6. Test it from a distance by tying it to a tree, and firing it with a rope or cord before using it for real.

7. Build several of these guns and practice with them, then dismantle them and hide the pieces somewhere they will not be found.

ZIP GUN II:

1. A good little pistol can be made about the same way.

2. Procure a length of 1/4" schedule 80 pipe, threaded on one end.

3. Follow the same steps for the big gun but use .25 cal. bullets instead of 12 ga. shotgun shells.

4. If quiet detonation is required, you might want to use a pipe threaded on both ends, and expand the barrel by adding a 6" length of pipe 1 and 1/2" or larger. Cover the business end with rubber from an inner tube, and tape it or secure with radiator clamps.

5. As with the big gun, build several and practice with them, keep it dismantled until you need it, and throw it away after the first use. Take it apart forst, and discard the pieces one at a time in various places.

For more information, download :U.S. ARMY TRAINING MANUAL TM-210; "IMPROVISED WEAPONS." Available on the Innertubes through many sources, free.

It is simple, easy to understand---and loaded with good information.

ijason: @ Ron, adding more detailed description to what you previously simply described as "a bunch of bottle caps down a pipe" (paraphrased) IS changing the description. if i first tell you i saw a large brown thing, and then later explain that i saw a large brown bear... i have changed the description even though the bear is indeed large and brown.

i admit i did assume you were describing an 'on the run' type situation, since you described the silencer without mentioning any machining or real planning. and, this IS a zombie attack thread, so i would assume most ideas proposed are somewhat ad hoc.

i readily admit that your more detailed explanation sounds much less likely for calamity. but i still would be concerned about such flimsy metal as bottle-caps deforming after a few shots.

It seems that others had no real problem figuring out what I was talking about. Ad hoc and on the run don't imply a complete lack of prep, though. Knowing how to do so prior to needing to do so is a critical skill, though illegal as hell in the States. However, I'll say that my description initially, with a bit of forethought, only leads to one possible solution and that's the one I described in greater detail.

PMJB or the AC, can't remember which had it.

Need to buy both, though I do have the US Army's field manual for survival and years of being in the Scouts. Probably a good idea of the BSA handbook as well. Lots of practical survival stuff in that, too.

http://www.infinitearms.com/images2/d/6564-1/BSP_SMG_9mm.pdf


This is my favorite zip gun or more accurately zip schmeisser. Link is a 10 megabyte PDF so try save link as if you don't like waiting forever. (new window) Pretty cool instructions on how to build it with parts patterns.

http://www.infinitearms.com/images2/d/6564-1/BSP_SMG_9mm.pdf


This is my favorite zip gun or more accurately zip schmeisser. Link is a 10 megabyte PDF so try save link as if you don't like waiting forever. (new window) Pretty cool instructions on how to build it with parts patterns and fabrication tips.

Note that zip guns are pretty much illegal everywhere.

What, no spidergoats? I won't be turning in then.

/or insert Gamma World snark - your choice

ichiban: Note that zip guns are pretty much illegal everywhere.

As is cannibalism. There's never an apocalyptic cop around when you need one.

way south: .22LR works great, on small stuff.

A properly employed .22 carbine will drop a human being at 100 yards. I posted this in another thread, my little Ruger 10/22 was putting rounds through a steel wheel rim at 50 yards.

I understand the allure of full sized .30 caliber assault rifles, but the Zombie Apocalypse will not be sponsored by the Magical Ammunition Fairy Association and 500 rounds of 7.62mm NATO is HEAVY.

ijason: @ JesseL, i have to admit, i don't hunt. just use the 10/22 at the range. ha! good point about reliability, i seriously blame the fact that the only loads i can find are hollow point. wtf, i just want a FMJ round to plunk some targets. i think it's the HP that jams the autoloader.

/but were you hitting the squirrel in their little squirrel BRAINS?

With the 10/22 it's not usually the shape that causes problems, it's usually bullet/powder weights. I've had bad luck with the lightweight "super velocity" loads. You're not really going to find jacketed non-hollowpoint rounds. Most solid .22LR rounds are just lead or silicone coated lead. I've had the best luck with 40gr loads.

Guysmiley: A properly employed .22 carbine will drop a human being at 100 yards. I posted this in another thread, my little Ruger 10/22 was putting rounds through a steel wheel rim at 50 yards.

Be aware that the difference between 50 yards and 100 yards in not insignificant when speaking of .22 lr ballistics. It may drop a human being at 100 yards, but I wouldn't count on it.

Guysmiley: I understand the allure of full sized .30 caliber assault rifles, but the Zombie Apocalypse will not be sponsored by the Magical Ammunition Fairy Association and 500 rounds of 7.62mm NATO is HEAVY.

Which is why I still like intermediate rifle rounds such as 5.56x45 and 7.62x39.

Guysmiley: With the 10/22 it's not usually the shape that causes problems, it's usually bullet/powder weights. I've had bad luck with the lightweight "super velocity" loads. You're not really going to find jacketed non-hollowpoint rounds. Most solid .22LR rounds are just lead or silicone coated lead. I've had the best luck with 40gr loads.

You want the CCI Mini-Mag HV.

IWood: krispos42: Zombies?

Cool. Let me get my 10/22 with a dozen 50-round magazines ready.


Head shots, I got them. PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW.

A 10/22? The zombies will find your brains tasty, friend.

A .22 will punch through both sides of a steel drum at point-blank range. More than enough to penetrate a zombie skull at 50 yards or so then ricochet around inside the brain case. The Swiss Cheese effect.

And I can carry 3 or 4 .22 rounds for one .223 or 7.62x39 round. You'll run out long before I will!

Luthiel: krispos42: Zombies?

Cool. Let me get my 10/22 with a dozen 50-round magazines ready.


Head shots, I got them. PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW.

Despite what Max Brooks keeps saying in his books, I really don't think anything firing .22 LR rounds is a good choice for the zombie apocalypse. Great for zombies, perhaps, but against hostile, living targets... not so much.

That's why God made handguns... :-)


Although another possibility is something like a Ruger PC9 9mm carbine and a Ruger P95 teamed up... they both shoot 9mm ammo from the same 15-round magazines, so I would just need one type of ammo and one type of mag. Compatability.

Or something like a lever-action .357 Mag teamed up with a .357 revolver. Those Marlins hold 10 rounds, which isn't too bad.

/I think about this too much

wh0mprat: Tastes Like Chicken: In the event of a zombie apocalypse I'd rather a suit of full-plate or chain mail, or at the very least some kind of SWAT combat armor, and a sledge hammer or other bludgeoning weapon. I'd carry a shotgun for safety and last resort scenarios, but most of the time I'd just bludgeon their brains out. A hammer's quieter than a gun, it never runs out of ammo, and it's hella easier to find than ammo will be.

Motocross boots, hockey or football pads and a goalie mask :)

Casey Jones?

duly noted, thanks subby

eas81: History channel already covered this:

Life after people (new window)

And National Geographic Channel covered this a year before History jumped on the bandwagon.

Aftermath: Population Zero (new window)

krispos42: A .22 will punch through both sides of a steel drum at point-blank range. More than enough to penetrate a zombie skull at 50 yards or so then ricochet around inside the brain case. The Swiss Cheese effect.

And I can carry 3 or 4 .22 rounds for one .223 or 7.62x39 round. You'll run out long before I will!

Do you ever wonder if there's a reason that police, military, and hunters of medium game don't use .22s?

Maybe they know something you don't.

JesseL: Do you ever wonder if there's a reason that police, military, and hunters of medium game don't use .22s?

Maybe they know something you don't.

I don't get the issue here and why folks don't seem to understand. If one round of 7.62x39 is roughly equivalent to 4 rounds of .22LR, but it takes 4 rounds of the .22LR to drop said target in most instances, all you've done is waste time and increased your need for reloads - all while exposing yourself to more danger. That doesn't mean don't have them - it means don't prefer them over something more reliable.

While the .22LR may be more available, it's not like the 7.62x39 isn't everywhere, either.

I predict lots of unnecessary drama to boost ratings. This will be Discovery's next step toward becoming a trashy entertainment channel.