JesseL: drunkenmidnight: Best way to get shot, get into a gun fight. Best way to avoid getting shot, avoid a gun fight. If you live in urban areas your hand gun is going to be your best weapon, and your weapon of choice. Most likely you will be up close and personal with your attacker.

A handgun may be your weapon of necessity since carrying a rifle around all the time is a PITA, but if it's your weapon of choice you chose poorly.

A handgun is what you carry when you don't think you'll be getting in a fight. If you think there's a good chance that you will get in a fight, do something to change that chance. If you think you may get in a fight and you can't avoid it, you want a rifle.

drunkenmidnight: While, sure my AK47 with my 30rd magazine would probably do alright in that situation but I can't say that it would be any better than my handgun in urban close quarters.

Try doing some shooting under stress with the handgun and with the AK. Tell me which one you think is more likely to hit your target, and which one is more likely to provide a decisive hit.

drunkenmidnight: You should google his blog and look it up, really insightful stuff.

I've already seen it several times.

I am not saying that a rifle is not viable but again if we did have SHTF here I am pretty sure the national guard would not allow for citizens to carry rifles on their backs.

In Brazil when SHTF no one was carrying around rifles or machine guns because it wasn't really allowed.

If someone already has you at a distance with a rifle there isn't much you can do and lugging around a rifle yourself doesn't make you any safer.

I carry a gun from time to time and I know it doesn't make me more safe nor does it mean that I won't get shot in the back and then robbed making the gun pointless to have. However, I do still have it.

I mean it would have to get really super bad for people to run around with rifles on their backs, and if it did get that bad sure I would be lugging around my AK instead of my 9mm.

Tastes Like Chicken: Also, doesn't much of this also depend on how the disease is passed?

I was assuming it was passed via zombites. If it's a disease like in 28 Days Later, then who knows.

Life After People is such a rip off of bear city

jdog71: bishop6042: Psumek: jdog71: kevinfra: scandalrag: eas81: History channel already covered this:

Life after people (new window)

I had a real problem with life after people: There was a cataclysm that kills all the people, but leaves their pets alive and locked in their houses?

I had a problem with only people disappeared yet every other species survived??

The show is called "Life After People." It doesn't even address how it happens, just that suddenly people are gone and looks at what happens next - mostly in terms of infrastructure.

I assume there are viruses that only affect humans...anyone know the answer to that? I'm too lazy to google infectious diseases at the moment. They probably skip the 'decaying corpses' episode because they would be quickly devoured by the house-pets and random wild animals.

They don't; they just disappear. It's like the rapture. Wake up one morning and we all just went up to Jesus.

If you want a good twist on the apocalypse based on the Rapture. If you can find it, pick up a RPG called "The End". The Rapture happens. God takes his share, Satan take his, and those who sat on the fence are left behind.

Sounds like Left Behind...no thanks, my ability to suspend disbelief ends with sci-fi, because good sci-fi uses realistic elements to fuel its fiction. Religion generally uses fear of death (and believe in an all-powerful invisible entity) as its catalyst, along with guilt and dogma. Lasers and spaceships exist. I can prove it.

That is the twist on it all. All the hell and heaven stuff is really true. But you find out too late. There is no afterlife for you now. The gates are closed. The world is turning back into Eden, man has lost the domination of the animals granted by God. "The meek shall inherit the Earth" was not a promise, it was a treat.

Are these the blackouts that happened in 2002-2003ish? A favela might be dangerous, no matter what else is going on in Brasil, but again, I'm pretty sure it never got that bad there, if it had it would have been related to me by any number of people who go there constantly for business. There was fear of looting and so some places closed up when the blackout happened. Other major thing was that people got stuck on the metro in sāo paulo.

Oops. *threat

itazurakko 2009-07-15 04:53:58 PM
Only tangentially related to the thread at best, I suppose, but...

Searching around zombie links, etc after reading "World War Z" I found someone had linked this little disturbing semi-animated comic book excerpt:

Shelter (link pops to YouTube)

Apparently it's some sort of "bonus feature" that was on the DVD of the "I Am Legend" movie with Will Smith. While that movie had some nice eye candy scenes, I wasn't really a fan (I hated the ending) - but this has nothing at all to do with the Will Smith story, it's just some other disturbing sequence that happens in New Delhi during the plague.

It's entirely possible I'm simply pussified, but I found it disturbing on a human level. Just can't imagine how horrible it would be for any of the characters, really.

Thanks, and will check out your link - but consider checking Youtube for the alternate (and vastly improved) ending to I Am Legend.

Public Call Box:

/Old School TSR FTW

Speaking of forgotten references, this thread needs more



/hot

Carry a handgun when you aren't expecting a gunfight.

If you ARE expecting a gunfight, bring a long gun. And lots of friends with long guns.



And some marines.



JesseL:

A handgun is what you carry when you don't think you'll be getting in a fight. If you think there's a good chance that you will get in a fight, do something to change that chance. If you think you may get in a fight and you can't avoid it, you want a rifle.

Jster422: Thanks, and will check out your link - but consider checking Youtube for the alternate (and vastly improved) ending to I Am Legend.

Will do...

JesseL: bhcompy: Meh.. M1 Garand. Millions in existence, stopping power of a mule kick to the face.

Yeah the Garand is great until you run out of en bloc clips because it spits them out all over the place, the oprod gets bent from using commercial ammo, you can't shoot accurately anymore because your shoulder has been hammered int hamburger by the pounding of .30-06, and you're overrun by zombies because 8 rounds at a time can't keep up.

Luthiel: I'd hate to be stuck scavenging for 5.7mm ammo in a post-apocalyptic situation, though. .22 LR may not be the best round for the situation, but at least it's easy to come by. Personally, I'd pick a carbine chambered for 9mm or .45 as my weapon for the zombie uprising.

I agree, for an individual trying to prepare for the zombie apocalypse; the logistics of obtaining 5.7x28 suck.

For someone (government, large corporation, or billionaire) putting together a well funded anti-zombie team, the 5.7 may be a worthwhile option.

For me, it's 5.56/.223 backed by 7.62x39. Pistol calibers are for pistols.

Why not 7.62x51 NATO (.308)? It's not like you're going to fly to Russia or China for the Apocalypse...

I sure like that round.

But in all truth, for a long gun most of the ammo you'll scrounge in the states will be .30-06

but if given my choice, and a surplus of any, I'd hope for:
.22wmr - small game (gotta eat)
9mm - self defense
12ga - self defense (or fowl hunting)
.308 - medium game/ZOMGBIES!!!!
.338 Lapua - large game / ZOMGBIE Brass

emocomputerjock: Wow, I haven't heard mention of that or Boot Hill in forever. You got any spare black ray guns?

Black ray pistols only had four shots per crystal, IIRC, and -- can't recall the precise description, but ISTR that they only affected organics. If it only affected living cells, vs. zthe undead you might be better off using something more destructive like slug throwers -- probably much easier to make more slugs than tech-level IV (or was it V) energy crystals.

Tastes Like Chicken: When you say Street-Sweeper I think you mean a gun, but I think the vehicle would be cool too.

If you truly knew it was coming and roughly when, you get a compound set up in the mountains. Sure, you've got a short growing season but zeds don't do well in the cold. Plus, you're away from their food sources so it's harder for them to get to you. Make sure you've got a decent glade on which to grow veggies. Hunting should take care of the meat.

And yes, 12ga shotgun with a 50 shell magazine, semi-auto IIRC.

drunkenmidnight: You should google his blog and look it up, really insightful stuff.

I would if you had mentioned who he was!

wh0mprat: Tastes Like Chicken: In the event of a zombie apocalypse I'd rather a suit of full-plate or chain mail, or at the very least some kind of SWAT combat armor, and a sledge hammer or other bludgeoning weapon. I'd carry a shotgun for safety and last resort scenarios, but most of the time I'd just bludgeon their brains out. A hammer's quieter than a gun, it never runs out of ammo, and it's hella easier to find than ammo will be.

Motocross boots, hockey or football pads and a goalie mask :)

Why not go the full Lord Humungus? Just skip the football pads and add some s&m spikes and a .357.

drunkenmidnight: I am not saying that a rifle is not viable but again if we did have SHTF here I am pretty sure the national guard would not allow for citizens to carry rifles on their backs.

In Brazil when SHTF no one was carrying around rifles or machine guns because it wasn't really allowed.

I figured we were talking about situations bad enough that there would be no National Guard.

drunkenmidnight: If someone already has you at a distance with a rifle there isn't much you can do and lugging around a rifle yourself doesn't make you any safer.

In that situation you're probably screwed. If you luck out though, a rifle is a much more effective means of fighting back than a pistol and way better than just waiting to die.

drunkenmidnight: I carry a gun from time to time and I know it doesn't make me more safe nor does it mean that I won't get shot in the back and then robbed making the gun pointless to have. However, I do still have it.

Me too, but I also tend to have a rifle nearby (locked in either the safe or car).

drunkenmidnight: I mean it would have to get really super bad for people to run around with rifles on their backs, and if it did get that bad sure I would be lugging around my AK instead of my 9mm.

Which was my whole point.

jdog71: I'll just leave this here. Anyone interested in post epic fiction should check it out. Its a fantastic series.

Emberverse Series (new window)

I was unable to get through more than a hundred pages or so of the first book.

The idea that a bunch of SCA nerds would rule the world because of a fondness for swords was no doubt a turn on for the LARP crowd but chainmail is hardly a defense against a group armed with supersoakers loaded with WD 40.

You could stop an army of thousands with the contents of a single Home Depot.

drunkenmidnight: He went into criminal activity later on in his blog and said that people were poisoning dogs, and breaking and entering homes with multiple people. While, sure my AK47 with my 30rd magazine would probably do alright in that situation but I can't say that it would be any better than my handgun in urban close quarters. I sure as hell wouldn't use my bolt action rifle.

Sure, but you're talking people. A pump action shotgun is one of the best civilian defense weapons against other humans because it has a non-lethal fear factor built into it. If someone was raiding my house, I'd want that extra fear induced by the cocking mechanism on top of the unparalleled ability to aim in someones general direction and be assured of some damage to the target, moreso than fully automatic assault weapon fire for sure. A hand gun won't scare anyone and while it may allow you a bit more stealth, if you're intending on defending your home, it lacks stopping power and fear factor as a primary weapon.

drunkenmidnight: I am not saying that a rifle is not viable but again if we did have SHTF here I am pretty sure the national guard would not allow for citizens to carry rifles on their backs.

Well, technically, isn't it legal to sport a legal gun as long as it's not concealed?

bishop6042: jdog71: bishop6042: Psumek: jdog71: kevinfra: scandalrag: eas81: History channel already covered this:

Life after people (new window)

I had a real problem with life after people: There was a cataclysm that kills all the people, but leaves their pets alive and locked in their houses?

I had a problem with only people disappeared yet every other species survived??

The show is called "Life After People." It doesn't even address how it happens, just that suddenly people are gone and looks at what happens next - mostly in terms of infrastructure.

I assume there are viruses that only affect humans...anyone know the answer to that? I'm too lazy to google infectious diseases at the moment. They probably skip the 'decaying corpses' episode because they would be quickly devoured by the house-pets and random wild animals.

They don't; they just disappear. It's like the rapture. Wake up one morning and we all just went up to Jesus.

If you want a good twist on the apocalypse based on the Rapture. If you can find it, pick up a RPG called "The End". The Rapture happens. God takes his share, Satan take his, and those who sat on the fence are left behind.

Sounds like Left Behind...no thanks, my ability to suspend disbelief ends with sci-fi, because good sci-fi uses realistic elements to fuel its fiction. Religion generally uses fear of death (and believe in an all-powerful invisible entity) as its catalyst, along with guilt and dogma. Lasers and spaceships exist. I can prove it.

That is the twist on it all. All the hell and heaven stuff is really true. But you find out too late. There is no afterlife for you now. The gates are closed. The world is turning back into Eden, man has lost the domination of the animals granted by God. "The meek shall inherit the Earth" was not a promise, it was a treat.

No afterlife for you



/what God may look like...he seems to have the same random temperament as the soup nazi.

jdog71: wh0mprat: Tastes Like Chicken: In the event of a zombie apocalypse I'd rather a suit of full-plate or chain mail, or at the very least some kind of SWAT combat armor, and a sledge hammer or other bludgeoning weapon. I'd carry a shotgun for safety and last resort scenarios, but most of the time I'd just bludgeon their brains out. A hammer's quieter than a gun, it never runs out of ammo, and it's hella easier to find than ammo will be.

Motocross boots, hockey or football pads and a goalie mask :)

Why not go the full Lord Humungus? Just skip the football pads and add some s&m spikes and a .357.

If there really were zombies...or even just well-armed crazy people, the Lord Humungus would be the first to go. He's all exposed targets and a good sniper could pick him off from 500 yards. Zombies would just chow down. Humungus only got away with it because for whatever reason his minions were all dumb and everyone else was scared of them.

Flt209er: /how's your reload time?

Not bad, but could be lots better. Mostly I try to avoid having to reload fast by doing tactical reloads when time allows.

Head_Shot: Why not 7.62x51 NATO (.308)? It's not like you're going to fly to Russia or China for the Apocalypse...

There is way more 7.62x39 around my area than there is 7.62x51/.308 and it's significantly cheaper. J&G Sales is less than two miles from home.

bhcompy: drunkenmidnight: I am not saying that a rifle is not viable but again if we did have SHTF here I am pretty sure the national guard would not allow for citizens to carry rifles on their backs.

Well, technically, isn't it legal to sport a legal gun as long as it's not concealed?

I think you're forgetting that in times of emergency, normal rights can and will be suspended.

And no, legal open carry isn't the case everywhere - even for rifles. Especially not if they're loaded (and what's the point of an unloaded weapon with zombies around?).

bhcompy: Well, technically, isn't it legal to sport a legal gun as long as it's not concealed?

I thought we were talking SHTF situations? It's not only the "regular people" who start behaving differently when that happens.

MrSteve007: ...Essentially it'll be: what will a group of exceptionally trained people do in a harsh, closed apocalypse simulation - while being messed with by producers?

I'm already excited for the show.

Hmmm. This actually sounds interesting and worthwhile.

This should teach me to read tfa before commenting...

Gyrfalcon: the Lord Humungus would be the first to go. He's all exposed targets and a good sniper could pick him off from 500 yards.

Dunno him, but it reminds me how I used to laugh at the various comic books full of voluptuous babes with guns wearing armored... bikinis. Like, okay, if someone shoots you directly in the BOOB, you're good, but otherwise...

It's all about suspension of disbelief.

Jument: That's a pretty weird post right there. I'm kinda speechless.

Yeah, it's pretty messed up, however the man died a decade before I was born, so I have zero emotional ties to him. It was used as a counter to people saying the .22LR doesn't have enough stopping power, which is, unfortunately, demonstratively false.

itazurakko: Gyrfalcon: the Lord Humungus would be the first to go. He's all exposed targets and a good sniper could pick him off from 500 yards.

Dunno him, but it reminds me how I used to laugh at the various comic books full of voluptuous babes with guns wearing armored... bikinis. Like, okay, if someone shoots you directly in the BOOB, you're good, but otherwise...

It's all about suspension of disbelief.

Lord Humungus was sort of like Xerxes in 300 - his minions were afraid, not of his whips, but of his divine power.

/in his leather underwear :)

BrynnMacFlynn: I'm actually really interested to see the first episode. I certainly won't continue to watch if it even hints of scripting - well, that's a lie. I'll probably continue to watch until Mythbusters gets some new episodes out, but what I'm really hoping they do is let these people roam around a small city section and force them to survive. Simply living in a warehouse sounds boring as hell, especially when you know that the producers are going to be planting things in the middle of the night.

Depends on what you mean by scripting. But its obvious from the summary's of the first few episodes that the scenarios they encounter are coming from producers/writers, and I would guess the items they build are being directed by a producer.

JesseL: Flt209er: /how's your reload time?

Not bad, but could be lots better. Mostly I try to avoid having to reload fast by doing tactical reloads when time allows.

Head_Shot: Why not 7.62x51 NATO (.308)? It's not like you're going to fly to Russia or China for the Apocalypse...

There is way more 7.62x39 around my area than there is 7.62x51/.308 and it's significantly cheaper. J&G Sales is less than two miles from home.

I believe that tactical shooting trainers advocate an immediate reload once all targets have been engaged even if you still have rounds in the magazine. Once there is a lull you can crossload and refill magazines.

MrSteve007: Jument: That's a pretty weird post right there. I'm kinda speechless.

Yeah, it's pretty messed up, however the man died a decade before I was born, so I have zero emotional ties to him. It was used as a counter to people saying the .22LR doesn't have enough stopping power, which is, unfortunately, demonstratively false.

There is a difference between stopping power and killing power.

Undercooked chicken has killing power.
A kick in the nuts has stopping power.
A .22lr has enough of both to deserve respect, but there are far better choices available.

MK-Ultra71: I'd have to go with a model 870 and a 1911a1. Proven, rugged stopping power.

Guns run out of ammo. I'm thinking along the lines of springals, ballistae, and fire. Lots and lots of fire.

Fire = bad idea. Zombies hav eno central nervous system. They feel no pain. Massive trauma to the head and torso is what it takes.

I've taken comabt/riot shotgun training. Reloading as you go with a 12 gauge pump is easy and fluid with some pratice. And the 870 is pretty much jam proof. Same with the 1911a1. So is the AK47 for that matter. I own or have owned all three and never experienced a jam of any kind even firing vintage ammo.

I believe that tactical shooting trainers advocate an immediate reload once all targets have been engaged even if you still have rounds in the magazine. Once there is a lull you can crossload and refill magazines.

Just be sure to practice the way you would shoot in a fire fight or as close as possible. Don't carefully remove mags because you are afraid to dent them. Release the mag and let it drop. In an emergency you will do what you practiced and if that was stopping to neatly place the spent mag in cargo pocket that's what you will do. Police officers have been found dead with empty mags or speed loaders in their pockets. They stopped to pocket the empty mag.

I am a node of SERVER.
Born of flesh and blood,
but enhanced by the power of it's web.
I have no use for pain or fear.
My scripts are a focus of my will.
My strength is my knowledge.
My weapons are my skills.
Information is the blood of my body.
I am part of the greater network.
I am host to the vast data of SERVER.
My flesh is weak, but my connection is eternal;
And therefore, I am a GOD.

\Obscure?

MK-Ultra71: I believe that tactical shooting trainers advocate an immediate reload once all targets have been engaged even if you still have rounds in the magazine. Once there is a lull you can crossload and refill magazines.

Just be sure to practice the way you would shoot in a fire fight or as close as possible. Don't carefully remove mags because you are afraid to dent them. Release the mag and let it drop. In an emergency you will do what you practiced and if that was stopping to neatly place the spent mag in cargo pocket that's what you will do. Police officers have been found dead with empty mags or speed loaders in their pockets. They stopped to pocket the empty mag.

Good point. I've personally just been concentrating on general marksmanship, and "panic" fire at 20 feet (dumping the magazine as quickly as possible). I have gotten to the point now where the entire magazine makes it into the chest. Reloads haven't been part of my practice yet.

krispos42: Zombies?

Cool. Let me get my 10/22 with a dozen 50-round magazines ready.


Head shots, I got them. PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW.

A 10/22? The zombies will find your brains tasty, friend.

emocomputerjock: Public Call Box:

/Old School TSR FTW

Speaking of forgotten references, this thread needs more



/hot

Get up. *wheeze* and bring me the whip!

drunkenmidnight: JesseL: drunkenmidnight: For those of you that think in a dire SHTF situation your long rifle is going to be used to pick off enemies from a distance have another thing coming. Remember you are also being hunted, by someone possibly smarter than you, possibly a better shot.

Stick to hand guns, stick to yourself and always be aware of your surroundings.

Spoken like someone with minimal firearms experience.

Outside of a phonebooth or maybe an elevator, a rifle is always better than a handgun. A pistol is for fighting your way to a rifle.

Best way to get shot, get into a gun fight. Best way to avoid getting shot, avoid a gun fight. If you live in urban areas your hand gun is going to be your best weapon, and your weapon of choice. Most likely you will be up close and personal with your attacker.

I read this guy's blog once who lived in Brazil when his country had no power for months at a time. They had a country wide black out. No power meant lots of things weren't available and he went through times where the government actually started to deteriorate. He lived through a SHTF scenario and in his own words the country didn't crumble to chaos. People still went about their business. Bartering became a more common way to trade for goods and services. People traded with in their community but no one ran around with rifles or machine guns. He did say everyone typically was packing a hand gun.

He went into criminal activity later on in his blog and said that people were poisoning dogs, and breaking and entering homes with multiple people. While, sure my AK47 with my 30rd magazine would probably do alright in that situation but I can't say that it would be any better than my handgun in urban close quarters. I sure as hell wouldn't use my bolt action rifle.

You should google his blog and look it up, really insightful stuff.

That was in Argentina, and that guy knows his SHTF planning. FerFal (new window)

The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Amen to this. Maybe a toss up between weapons and food FIRST, but the other one is a close second. Once you have protection, you can handle security and scavaging abilities. You can do ALL of this with candles / fires / torches, and stinking a bit... or move your camp once you have security to an area with flowing water and you can bathe... showers..really?? And then HOT showers? They won't be able to survive without the internets...that'll be a requirement episode one, season 2.

make them hunt game and field dress it for food...

btw, did the "motorcycle thug" get a board with a nail in it to the head? In my compound, if he was a thug, we put him in the slowcooker until he's tender.

That's because this is a show made by hollywood-yuppie types. The idea of picking up a handgun or AR-15 to survive clashes with everything they believe. The world ends and the first things they need to survive are...a solar shower and a coffee maker? Are you kidding me? As for the "motorcycle thug" if they don't have one character at least pretending to shoot him with a rifle, I'm turning it off for being a complete mockery of reality. If the world end, solar power and coffee are going to be the last thing in your mind forever. Guns for protection, killing for food and burning things for heat are the name of the game.


And what's with the cast? A cross section of society? So where is the McDonalds assistant manager? Soccer mom/receptionist? College kids? You know, regular people who don't really know shiat about survival and actually make up about 99% of the real population.

First step: Get the fark outta LA and to the boonies.

taurusowner: The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Gotta re-order your priorities. Water first, then shelter, then food. Sanitation is nice after that, but not required. If you can establish a community after that, more power to you. After that, you worry about sharing or scavenging weapons.

buckler: taurusowner: The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Gotta re-order your priorities. Water first, then shelter, then food. Sanitation is nice after that, but not required. If you can establish a community after that, more power to you. After that, you worry about sharing or scavenging weapons.

I don't agree. When whatever calamity happens occurs, the opening few hours/days are going to be full of everyone frantically looting and looking out for themselves. There is tons of food and water in houses, grocery stores, treatment plants etc. But everyone will be looking to grab it all. If you want the edge to survive in those first critical moments, weapons and trusted friends with weapons are the priority. Competing with nature comes later. First you have to compete with the rest of mankind.

taurusowner: buckler: taurusowner: The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Gotta re-order your priorities. Water first, then shelter, then food. Sanitation is nice after that, but not required. If you can establish a community after that, more power to you. After that, you worry about sharing or scavenging weapons.

I don't agree. When whatever calamity happens occurs, the opening few hours/days are going to be full of everyone frantically looting and looking out for themselves. There is tons of food and water in houses, grocery stores, treatment plants etc. But everyone will be looking to grab it all. If you want the edge to survive in those first critical moments, weapons and trusted friends with weapons are the priority. Competing with nature comes later. First you have to compete with the rest of mankind.

After shelter and water it comes down to beans and bullets. If if you have the bullets you can get the beans.

taurusowner: buckler: taurusowner: The6502Man: Everybody knows the first thing you scavenge is guns, ammo, hand weapons, water and food. Then you secure your shelter, secure your supplies, insure sanitation, establish a militia, and form a community. Power, showers, and other niceties come later not first.

Gotta re-order your priorities. Water first, then shelter, then food. Sanitation is nice after that, but not required. If you can establish a community after that, more power to you. After that, you worry about sharing or scavenging weapons.

I don't agree. When whatever calamity happens occurs, the opening few hours/days are going to be full of everyone frantically looting and looking out for themselves. There is tons of food and water in houses, grocery stores, treatment plants etc. But everyone will be looking to grab it all. If you want the edge to survive in those first critical moments, weapons and trusted friends with weapons are the priority. Competing with nature comes later. First you have to compete with the rest of mankind.

I don't think our viewpoints are contradictory. The priorities I mentioned are strictly biological in nature, and don't vary. Of course, the circumstances in which you have to carry out those priorities might vary; You might be battling an Arctic crevasse or an army of hungry fellow humans. In any event, your priorities are the same, and it's up to you to secure what you can when you can. You must have water first. If you happen to have a weapon to help you get it, then great. If not, you need to be more conniving, but your needs are the same.

the thing i never see properly addressed in the zombie apocalypse scenarios is who the FARK is running the power plants? anyone who thinks that they're going to survive any kind of "doomsday" situation better get out a map real quick of the local and up-wind nuclear power plants are.

my other 2c is that reliability and portability are far more important than most other factors in a rifle. presuming you're 'on the lamb' you better be in decent shape to lug around anything heavier than 30lbs for your total pack weight, and you don't want 95% of that to be your shooter and the bullets.

another observation would be that as much as we would all like to think that a superior rifle with obnoxious range and kick-ass stopping power is the best... but the reality of it is that a .22 rifle with a decent scope is going to be the best bet for 99% of the shooters out there. the load is wicked accurate, and can easily pop the skull of a person at a longer range than you're probably going to be able to accurately aim.

/once got laughed at while shopping for a heavier barrel for my 22 ruger. "do you _really_ think the barrel is the weak link?"

I see your point. From a purely physiological standpoint, the human body needs water every day. It does not need a weapon. But most of us do not live in the arctic. Most of us do live in cities and towns with thousands or even millions of other people in close proximity who are all going to be terrified, frantic, and looking for the physiological needs to survive, just like you. So while your body does need water first, then food, then shelter; getting these things without being killed yourself in those first few hectic hours/days is going to require you finding a weapon first.

Came for the Fallout 3 references. Got em - thanks!

ronaprhys : ... Also worth noting is that making a silencer isn't difficult. Illegal, but not difficult. Since you're going to be in a world full of zeds, I'm not thinking that illegal is going to be a concern.

A length of threaded pipe. Old bottle caps stacked inside of said pipe. Bit of a longer barrel to thread it on.

that is the dumbest suggestion i have EVER heard. i can't begin to imagine the disaster of trying to use a length of rough pipe filled with fricking bottle caps. you do understand than a bullet needs to pass through this pipe and exit at exactly the location you drilled the second hole, don't you? and what do you think happens when the bullet deforms or fragments or deflects off any of these umpteen bottle caps you've stuck in this thing?

I guess what I'm saying is, yeah you can be dehydrated and in desperate need of water to live. OK. How are you going to get that water without getting shot by other survivors first?

taurusowner: I guess what I'm saying is, yeah you can be dehydrated and in desperate need of water to live. OK. How are you going to get that water without getting shot by other survivors first?

You take a pessimistic point of view. In my experience, people who've suffered communal disaster tend to help one another out. I would expect that survivors would work together to assemble the manpower and tools to dig a well and install a pump; furthermore, they would build and share shelters and food supplies to insure the common good. People aren't as mercenary as you might think.