There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

15 seconds? How in the heck do you manage to hang in there that long?

I have invented a move I call the "2PQ" 2 pumps and a quiver.

/giggity

phlegmmo: But their most severe criticism relates to the gulf between the benefits received by mothers who are already well-off financially and poorer mothers. Mothers earning £50,000 a year and taking six months' leave receive nearly £8,000 from the taxpayer, whereas a mother earning £12,000 would receive £4,500.

And this is not fair? If you earn 50,000 you get less than a sixth of your salary. If you earn 12,00 you get over a third.

That's exactly how it's not fair.

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Amen!!!!

/self employment is the ONLY way to go!

I was a self employed consultant. Now I am an employee. Both have their pros and cons.

But I mock the level of retard it take to think that your preference would be superior for everyone.

From_The_Year_2000: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Meh, the badge is a two times a day hassle, the clothes are pretty comfortable (and paid for by company), the paid time off is nice because I'm being paid even though I'm not working, and I enjoy the fact that my contributions towards retirement are being doubled and that my health insurance is pretty damn good. Ideally I'd like to come in to work whenever I want, but as far as work goes I think things are well. If things ever improve though I'll be sure to post on a message board to make fun of others not as lucky.

Because that's what a non-shiathead would do.

Crap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

aybara: My wife got one month maternity paid. She had to eat up vacation time to extend it.

I got nothing. I took two weeks just to be there to help out for the first kid.

Sometimes you gotta love the overly rigid, ridiculously pro-worker labor laws in my country:
- 5 day leave for the father
- 6 weeks off before the due date for the mother
- 12 weeks off after the baby's birth for the mother
- Mother can take 1 hour off each day for 24 months for breastfeeding. (though I'm not sure if this one is dependent on the amount/% of women on the office)
- subsidized daycare for 24 months
- Mother has protected job for about 24 months after returning to work: means she only can be fired if you pay her the 24 months of salary (decreases as the 24 months go by). In practice means she can't get fired.

That's what's legally mandated - some companies take it further (my current job has 1 extra day for father's leave, and mothers can return to work working a lighter schedule)

powerserge: There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

Spoken like a true Darwinian Reject.

Yes, you are. You aren't going to be procreating, so there must be something inherently defective with you.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Well, OK, but don't forget, if you're in the USA anyway, that you'll pay an extra portion of your income for SS benefits. Not sure how it's handled in other countries, but her they consider you both the employer and the employee. You get to match your own contribution.

the only leave i got when my girlfriend got pregnant was on a plane to mexico.

kb7rky: StonerbloopersCrap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

Let's see how chipper YOU are 18 months from now...

/unemployment sucks
//especially when the checks run out
///and the bastards make you repay EVERY FARKING CENT, despite NOT having a job
////bitter slashies

/preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...

Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

How's your pension plan coming along?

Pension plans????? MOCK!!!!

powerserge: There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

After you learn to construct proper and meaningful sentences, DIAF!

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

How's your pension plan coming along?

Pension plans????? MOCK!!!!

Yeah...but do you get ANY time off? Do you even get to take a vacation?

Not just one or two days, but a PROPER vacation? No cell phones...no laptops...I mean a real, get-the-fark-outta-Dodge vacation?

Well?

Not sure if this is in the labor laws, our contract or our benefits but IIRC parents here (Manitoba) can take up to 1 year between both parents. One guy from work just got back from 11 months off for paternal leave. I think you're entitled to the same income as either unemployment insurance (66%) or workmans comp (60-70%).

/actual figures estimated
//your results may vary

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Oh, here I was thinking that employment was an arrangement freely entered into by both the buyer and seller of labor, both of who have other options.

According to GAT_00, we all work for 'the nation,' and it treats us 'this bad.' Clearly we can't be trusted to work out employment arrangements that, while imperfect, are suitable enough, and 'the nation' needs to get all up in our business even more than it already does.

I am really unable to grasp what kind of entitlement mentality you must posess to post what I quoted. No one owes you a damn thing. Free men and women work out their own deals for both working for someone and employing someone. Free men and women leave or release someone when the relationship is no longer suitable.

Instead, we have infantalized adults demanding state action on their behalf because they can't imagine themselves earning a living doing anything other than they're currently doing, at anywhere else.

The thinking must go like this: The person or entity that created the job they get paid to perform is the enemy, the worker who collects the paycheck is a poor downtrodden sod chained to their workstation, and the glorious, heroic national employment beaurocracy must pass all manner of family leave regulations to minimize the pain of slavery.

People who think like you do are probably barely employable anyway.

kb7rky: kb7rky: StonerbloopersCrap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

Let's see how chipper YOU are 18 months from now...

/unemployment sucks
//especially when the checks run out
///and the bastards make you repay EVERY FARKING CENT, despite NOT having a job
////bitter slashies

/preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...

I'm really chipper right now =)
Its great getting to do what I want when I want. I'm not even bored yet, and I've got a lot of time left to draw. And as I was told by the bureaucracy, I don't have to pay any back. Since WV works as Unemployment Insurance system.

/everybody said I'd be bored in a month.
// I'm really just startin to feel GOOD

vertiaset: I remember, when my wife was giving birth and the doctor's treated me as if I were going to faint during the delivery. I told them I grew up on a farm and had seen much worse. Still, after her long labor my daughter's head was shaped like a cone. They popped her out, washed her off, put a cap on her pointy little head and handed her, not to me, but to my mother in law.

Your first mistake was allowing the mother in law to be in the room. If you couldn't muster the gonads required to chase her off, the nurses properly evaluated who was in charge.

\Just had a kid. The mother in law waited in the lounge where she belonged, because she knew that's what I required. She explicitly expressed utter faith that I had everything under control in that room, and I did.

\\I'm really being a blunt asshole tonight, aren't I? I should get back to work.

Never ever hire a woman younger than 40, or a woman older than 40 with young kids.

Don't ask age though, that could get you in potential discrimination trouble. Ask to see the drivers license for "verification purposes." No job candidate will refuse that.

Get a picture frame with a couple of stock photos of kids for your desk. Then use that to get them to admit if they have/want kids. And check a woman's car in the parking lot during the interview or while she is waiting because she will have a car seat or toys in it giving her away.

RembrandtQEinstein: Never ever hire a woman younger than 40, or a woman older than 40 with young kids.

Don't ask age though, that could get you in potential discrimination trouble. Ask to see the drivers license for "verification purposes." No job candidate will refuse that.

Get a picture frame with a couple of stock photos of kids for your desk. Then use that to get them to admit if they have/want kids. And check a woman's car in the parking lot during the interview or while she is waiting because she will have a car seat or toys in it giving her away.


Dear Sir -
I feel uniquely qualified to apply for employment with your fine organization.
Please post info so I may forward a resume'.

Sincerely,
Abbey "Smells a lawsuit" Someone

Playerslight: Speaking as a father of two young kids, I gotta say that heading back to work for an eight-hour break everyday is one of the perks of being a father. I'm (un)lucky enough to have a flexible job that allows me to be home for a couple hours in the morning with them and back early enough to help with dinner and putting them to bed, but that time in the office when all I have to deal with is phone calls and emails and reports and meetings is pure relaxation gold.


the real question is did you use the new coversheet on your tps reports.

I just noticed the "breeder crotch fruit" schnit didn't start until this went green.

vertiaset: Your statement was typical Fark. Farkers always go for the attack first. It is a odd aspect of the culture of this forum but I am used to it.

I bet, you've been posting for over a month now.

So, just had a kid, like late last year. Wife was off 6 mos, 80% pay. Went back to work 60%. Then I am working 50% -- started last month. I will be working 50% until August.

August, 2010.

Have fun with your Family Values (TM), America!

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Wow a self employed code monkey, I am so envious that I am going to cry myself to sleep in the pile of receipts from the past 4 weeks of constant drinking that I get reimbursement for.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

classy

Zippy_da_Midget: So, just had a kid, like late last year. Wife was off 6 mos, 80% pay. Went back to work 60%. Then I am working 50% -- started last month. I will be working 50% until August.

August, 2010.

Have fun with your Family Values (TM), America!

How's the unemployment rate in your country? I mean, it sounds like you've got a pretty sweet deal there.

The downside is that such state mandates increase the cost of employing everyone, so fewer people can be employed. You're not generating any wealth while you're on leave, but you're costing someone money. That has consequences.

But hey, at least you get to be smug on fark! That's gotta be worth someone being unemployed, right?

Oh, did I mention we are both getting 80-90% pay for the days we don't work?

...and the 200 bucks a month from the government for having a kid until the kid is 18. Per kid.

I will also be starting my vacation, of which I have 35 vacation days. Per year.

/albeit, the pay isn't something to write home about, but that is why you start your own biz making half your regular job salary in 15 minutes a week.

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Depends what you concern treating its citizens bad. I get over half my salary siezed by the kraut government every year. I think that is far worse than not giving paternity time.

dfenstrate

Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. It seems all the PhDs are unemployed or hard to employ (too many of them). All the construction workers have work.

I also have a job offer in hand right now. Means double pay, double work, no parental leave, lots of travel, company car, expense account, etc. But then I can't have my side biz, which basically can provide me those things if I want. Gee, what do you think I'll do? Working for da man is overrated.

Yes, I do have a sweet deal, although not all of it is perfect. Some things I have to do without, some things I have to do with. It just comes down to what some philosopher guy said one time "Freedom is the ability to feel comfortable in your chains".

Zippy_da_Midget: Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. It seems all the PhDs are unemployed or hard to employ (too many of them). All the construction workers have work.

I also have a job offer in hand right now. Means double pay, double work, no parental leave, lots of travel, company car, expense account, etc. But then I can't have my side biz, which basically can provide me those things if I want. Gee, what do you think I'll do? Working for da man is overrated.

Yes, I do have a sweet deal, although not all of it is perfect. Some things I have to do without, some things I have to do with. It just comes down to what some philosopher guy said one time "Freedom is the ability to feel comfortable in your chains".

And what country is this in? Seems even more generous than my socialist overlords here.

Didn't look at my profile? It's Uranus. Either that or Sweden. I hate to say it, but Germany really isn't that socialist in comparison. Isn't that DE has no minimum wage? Lots of unemployment, especially in the former East? Amazing amounts of good beer? Sweden has asswater for beer -- it's really, really bad.

The only medical related cost I had to pay for my kid until now is the 3 days I slept at the hospital in the queen size bed with my wife and kid. Even that was cheap.

Here in Norway, the mother gets 9 months maternity leave at 100% pay, or 12 months at 80% pay. If the father is around, he has to take at least one of those months instead of her, but can take up to half, I think it is.

Now, I lived in the US for 15 years, and while I enjoyed it in many ways, the feeling of safety we have here with socialized health care coupled with nearly free higher education is hard to beat. Yeah, we pay more in taxes than you do in the US, but it's affordable.

Zippy_da_Midget: Didn't look at my profile? It's Uranus. Either that or Sweden. I hate to say it, but Germany really isn't that socialist in comparison. Isn't that DE has no minimum wage? Lots of unemployment, especially in the former East? Amazing amounts of good beer? Sweden has asswater for beer -- it's really, really bad.

I am fairly sure DE has a minimum wage, but don't quote me on that. The unemployment is largely a problem with the east, and each month I pay a 'solidarity tax' to subsidize the ex communists who can't get their shiat together.

I wept when I saw how much of my first bonus I got to keep.

Beer is decent, although the Czechs have the best.

Anyways I made the socialist comparison to the US, simply saying that other than getting more time off here the taxes don't justify the extra work protections.

McMuttons: Here in Norway, the mother gets 9 months maternity leave at 100% pay, or 12 months at 80% pay. If the father is around, he has to take at least one of those months instead of her, but can take up to half, I think it is.

Now, I lived in the US for 15 years, and while I enjoyed it in many ways, the feeling of safety we have here with socialized health care coupled with nearly free higher education is hard to beat. Yeah, we pay more in taxes than you do in the US, but it's affordable.

I have to disagree with you about taxes. I lived in the US for 30+ years, Sweden for 4. Both countries have tax shelters. The US hides the taxes you have to pay one way or another. Sweden puts it up front.

Example: Day Care.

Just like in the US, there is a line to get a place. Once you get a spot, it costs maybe $100-200/month, depending on. Friends in the US pay $800/kid/month. My taxes go to that. Guess what? The kid stipend I get pays for daycare. Or whatever else I choose, since my kid won't be in day care until Fall 2010.

Parental Leave:

465 days, 365 of which are at 80% pay. You can spread them out however you want for the next 8 years. You have to prove you are "doing something" every day of the week, otherwise your Short Term Disability Income Value (magic number they decide how much you get) drops quickly. In the US, you have to work and drop your kid at daycare, or quit working. My taxes here go to that so I can keep working, and create a new taxpayer for my retirement.

Healthcare:

I don't pay insurance premiums. My employer doesn't pay insurance premiums. My taxes go to that. The concept of "not having coverage" doesn't exist here. I tried to explain it in my parent class (where they tell first time families how to handle a newborn -- basically an owner's manual). No one got it. The fact you could go under because of medical issues was just not fathomable.

I worked in US Healthcare. It's night and day different in how a person is considered a human here and a liability that may sue you in the US. My taxes go to that.


All in all, just like any system, you need to understand the ins and outs to see how it could work best for you. In my opinion, for my needs, the US tax system is broken and not worth the effort for me to fix it. Sweden has a better system.

I ultimately pay the same or similar amount of taxes -- possibly even less here -- than the US resulting from all the kid expenses I'd have in the US. You can live so damn cheap in Sweden. Norway, not so cheap, but the pay is higher.

Mind you, if I was a single dude, US homeowner (deductions) all the way. Sweden for procreation and retirement.

lilplatinum:


I'm pretty sure your bonus tax is similar to the US. 50%. Same here in Sweden. But then, you get it based on your income tax level at the end of the year. Pretty standard, really.

Work protections? Those are the biggest joke ever. Permanent employment here is so highly sought after that people think it's the best thing. "They can't fire me! First in, Last out! (swedish law)" Then the company just reorgs, puts you in your own division, then shuts the division down. You magically disappear. Then they hire someone cheaper doing the exact same thing, only not in your defunct division.

Sounds like the US, eh? At-will employment. The drawback is you have to give them 3-6 months notice that you are leaving. And you have to work 100% while you wait for your new job.

BTW, Belgian beer FTW

My mother was in labour with me for 24 hours and I came out at 10.5lbs. My dad spent the entire time drunk.

Even though on some level I sorta like the idea of equality meaning equality, I still go back to remembering the above.

Now I can have my side biz. Hmmm... Wonder if I can bump up the base pay 50% and see if wifey can be home 100%? That could be interesting, but it sure puts me in a risky situation having one income.

Amateur. I could do it in ten.

Zippy_da_Midget: dfenstrate

Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. (clipped stuff about how life is good for you)

Well, yes, things are good for you. My question was who can't be employed, because the generous leave benefits you enjoyed had to be paid for?

It's good you and your industry are doing well- but what about more marginal industries subject to the same regulations, but who have much smaller profit margins?

Who isn't getting employed so you and your countrymen can enjoy those benefits?

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

What about Zimbabwe, North Korea, or Exaggerastan?

I agree with you: 15 seconds,,,OK ladies, does that include foreplay??

What's foreplay?

/sounds like a waste of time when there might be something on television...

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Define "working class". Because I would consider working class to be "blue collar", but a lot of the people in this thread appear to be "white collar", and even white collar professionals in the US typically would not be able to take significant time off for such a thing.

Little.Alex: /sounds like a waste of time when there might be something on television...

But...but...stop watching TV while having sex? You're doing it wrong!

/doesn't even watch TV

If you can only hang in there for more than 15 seconds, you're truly pathetic. Anything less than 5 minutes and you're just a lazy K-Fed douche bag.

Anyhow. I told my girlfriend if she ever gets pregnant and tries to leave me, I'm taking the kid. I want my offspring, not the child-barer.

They make up for it by running the risk of being put in a chokehold by an exhausted wife if they don't wake up every time the baby cries.

When both of girls were born, I got NO time off at all.

AAAAnnnnd tuxq wins the award for bragging about somethng completely off-subject.

Canada has both maternity leave and parental leave. Maternity leave is 17 weeks I believe and is for the birth mother only, regardless of whether she intends to keep the child. Then parental leave is 35 weeks, and can be split between either parent, including the parents of adoptive children, or the non-married partner of the birth mother. I like this because it separates the two, with maternity intended to give the person who gave birth time to recover from the birth, and parental intended to give the caregivers time to bond with and care care for the infant.

At my current employer I got 4 weeks paid which was awesome... My last employer I got nothing and had to take a few vacation days. Current employer is a law firm, the one who gave me nothing was Compuware... Bastards.

lilplatinum
I am fairly sure DE has a minimum wage, but don't quote me on that.

At the moment it hasn't, it has been a popular topic for the upcomingelections.
Well, it sort of has in some sectors, it's somewhat complicated:

There are the "Tariflöhne" that get negotiated for certain sectors between employee associations (unions) and employer associations.

Since April there has been the "Entsendegesetz" that mainly covers construction work and postmen (German post lobbied hard to get those in there to ruin their private competitor PIN).

And there's a law that protects against wages that are against public policy, i.e. they can't be too low compared to what's considered the "usual pay" for the same work in that area (like paying 2 bucks if everyone else gets 6-8 for doing the same things).