I got a letter once from the Department of Child Support Enforcement.

"The father of your children [Mr. DARTH BROOKS] has admitted to their paternity, so no further court actions need to be made at this time."

What a relief.

/father of two.

/mother of none.

/and don't think "Mr. Mom" is some kind of compliment.

Men absolutely need more parental leave after the birth or adoption of a child. Unfortunately, the traditional role of women being considered the "more natural" parent is a stereotype that harms women in the workplace and harms men by belittling their parental contribution. The Patriarchy harms men as well as women.

If I remember correctly here you get 12 months between the parents and the mother has to take 3 of them. My brother-in-law took some parental leave for both of his kids.

Speaking as a father of two young kids, I gotta say that heading back to work for an eight-hour break everyday is one of the perks of being a father. I'm (un)lucky enough to have a flexible job that allows me to be home for a couple hours in the morning with them and back early enough to help with dinner and putting them to bed, but that time in the office when all I have to deal with is phone calls and emails and reports and meetings is pure relaxation gold.

What I would have considered "work" before having kids is a delightful break from what I now realize to be real work.

Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

My husband was supposed to get 2 weeks leave (his unused vacation time) when our son was born last year. His employer biatched at him for missing work the day I gave birth and demanded that he return to work the same day we were released.

/farkers laid him off last month shortly after promising him a transfer

Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

Putting on the condom doesn't count.

Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

HAHA! I'm a member of the Minute Club.

pestluvr: My husband was supposed to get 2 weeks leave (his unused vacation time) when our son was born last year. His employer biatched at him for missing work the day I gave birth and demanded that he return to work the same day we were released.

/farkers laid him off last month shortly after promising him a transfer

I sincerely hope he left them an upper decker on his way out the door.

My wife got one month maternity paid. She had to eat up vacation time to extend it.

I got nothing. I took two weeks just to be there to help out for the first kid.

While my husband was rather worthless during the birth because he was freaking out like an 80s movie, he was really freaking supportive the entire time I was pregnant. I couldn't drink so he didn't drink. He changed his diet with me, rubbed my feet, watched the two older kids so I could take naps. Held my hair back when I barfed. ran to the store at 2 am if I really wanted to eat something.

Gwendolyn: While my husband was rather worthless during the birth because he was freaking out like an 80s movie, he was really freaking supportive the entire time I was pregnant. I couldn't drink so he didn't drink. He changed his diet with me, rubbed my feet, watched the two older kids so I could take naps. Held my hair back when I barfed. ran to the store at 2 am if I really wanted to eat something.

Mine too. Well, I fortunately didn't get barfy, but he would run to the store when I needed Fruity Pebbles (my pregnancy craving) and put up w/ my mood swings w/out complaint. He cooked, and still does, whatever crazy thing I want/ed. Men are not given enough credit for their nurturing side, and that's a shame.

Abso-farking-lutely. I had to take paid vacation time off of my job as an Assistant Store Manager of a Home Depot store, and all they'd give me is a week. One. farking. week. And they wouldn't have even given me any if I hadn't had any PTO.

ragekage: Abso-farking-lutely. I had to take paid vacation time off of my job as an Assistant Store Manager of a Home Depot store, and all they'd give me is a week. One. farking. week. And they wouldn't have even given me any if I hadn't had any PTO.

That's sad, especially with the push to get fathers more involved in their lives' of their children.

Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

I'm hoping my husband gets some time off for the baby. As it is, I only get two weeks paid (what was once known as my sick & vacation time). Ugh, this has caused way much stress on us as far as time off, arranging care for after my time runs out, etc. I'd love to be able to stay home, but I'm the primary breadwinner and I know we can't survive on one income.

Oh well...at least I get breaks and summers off.

ragekage: Abso-farking-lutely. I had to take paid vacation time off of my job as an Assistant Store Manager of a Home Depot store, and all they'd give me is a week. One. farking. week. And they wouldn't have even given me any if I hadn't had any PTO.

I took a week of unpaid time when I was working the Commercial desk at Lowe's.

It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

I'm Canadian. Mothers get 12 months, fathers could take up to two months I think. Doesn't matter, I couldn't afford the 50% haircut I'd have to take.

Playerslight: GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

I'm Canadian. Mothers get 12 months, fathers could take up to two months I think. Doesn't matter, I couldn't afford the 50% haircut I'd have to take.

Yeah, I should have clarified that actually. I know without having to check that every single person in this thread who is talking about weeks, not months off is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

The fact of the matter is that if an American father tried to take off two months to help his wife with a child, he'd almost certainly be laughed out of the building. Hell, in most cases, the mother who asked for two months would be laughed out of the building.

Playerslight: I'm Canadian. Mothers get 12 months, fathers could take up to two months I think. Doesn't matter, I couldn't afford the 50% haircut I'd have to take.

12 months for moms and 2 months for fathers? It's better than what we have here, but it still seems wrong. Babies for only babies for so long, and men should get to experience it in full. Although, I guess it could really impact business if it were longer, and women are often nursing the first year while men obviously are not.

GAT_00: if an American father tried to take off two months to help his wife with a child, he'd almost certainly be laughed out of the building

My husband had a hell of a time when he tried to get paternity leave, but"fortunately" he got laid off shortly after our son was born.

Hagbardr: ragekage: Abso-farking-lutely. I had to take paid vacation time off of my job as an Assistant Store Manager of a Home Depot store, and all they'd give me is a week. One. farking. week. And they wouldn't have even given me any if I hadn't had any PTO.

I took a week of unpaid time when I was working the Commercial desk at Lowe's.

Yeah, but you pro-desk sprogs don't do anything, not since you stop being salaried and forced to work for Chinese overtime, anyhow. Bad management crew is what it was, nothing more- what made me decide to get my ass back to school, so I didn't spend the rest of my life working in a big, orange box.

I worked for Lowe's at one point, actually; ran Appliances/Cabinets/Flooring. I will never forget the speech our Ops ASM gave us. "I'm from Wilkesboro, North Carolina," he said, "I've worked for Lowe's since I was 16, never graduated high school, and now look at me! I'm an Ops manager for a Lowe's store; and someday I'll be a store manager, and maybe even a District Manager! See what you can accomplish with this company?"

Those are some of the most chilling words I've ever heard in my life.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Amen!!!!

/self employment is the ONLY way to go!

But their most severe criticism relates to the gulf between the benefits received by mothers who are already well-off financially and poorer mothers. Mothers earning £50,000 a year and taking six months' leave receive nearly £8,000 from the taxpayer, whereas a mother earning £12,000 would receive £4,500.

And this is not fair? If you earn 50,000 you get less than a sixth of your salary. If you earn 12,00 you get over a third.

ragekage: Hagbardr: ragekage: Abso-farking-lutely. I had to take paid vacation time off of my job as an Assistant Store Manager of a Home Depot store, and all they'd give me is a week. One. farking. week. And they wouldn't have even given me any if I hadn't had any PTO.

I took a week of unpaid time when I was working the Commercial desk at Lowe's.

Yeah, but you pro-desk sprogs don't do anything, not since you stop being salaried and forced to work for Chinese overtime, anyhow. Bad management crew is what it was, nothing more- what made me decide to get my ass back to school, so I didn't spend the rest of my life working in a big, orange box.

I worked for Lowe's at one point, actually; ran Appliances/Cabinets/Flooring. I will never forget the speech our Ops ASM gave us. "I'm from Wilkesboro, North Carolina," he said, "I've worked for Lowe's since I was 16, never graduated high school, and now look at me! I'm an Ops manager for a Lowe's store; and someday I'll be a store manager, and maybe even a District Manager! See what you can accomplish with this company?"

Those are some of the most chilling words I've ever heard in my life.

Amen again! Fat, drunk and stupid Working for the man is noooo way to go through life... Well, ok... maybe being drunk ain't all that bad...

obvious error is obvious

12,000

First kid I took 2 weeks off. Second kid I took off 2 weeks. After paying daycare for 2 kids I quit working.

Playerslight: GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

I'm Canadian. Mothers get 12 months, fathers could take up to two months I think. Doesn't matter, I couldn't afford the 50% haircut I'd have to take.

would you become bald? couldn't you donate it to "Locks of Love" or something?

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Meh, the badge is a two times a day hassle, the clothes are pretty comfortable (and paid for by company), the paid time off is nice because I'm being paid even though I'm not working, and I enjoy the fact that my contributions towards retirement are being doubled and that my health insurance is pretty damn good. Ideally I'd like to come in to work whenever I want, but as far as work goes I think things are well. If things ever improve though I'll be sure to post on a message board to make fun of others not as lucky.

Because that's what a non-shiathead would do.

You breeders need to chill. You have options. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

GAT_00: Playerslight: GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

I'm Canadian. Mothers get 12 months, fathers could take up to two months I think. Doesn't matter, I couldn't afford the 50% haircut I'd have to take.

Yeah, I should have clarified that actually. I know without having to check that every single person in this thread who is talking about weeks, not months off is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

The fact of the matter is that if an American father tried to take off two months to help his wife with a child, he'd almost certainly be laughed out of the building. Hell, in most cases, the mother who asked for two months would be laughed out of the building.

Here in California the law is something like 2 to 6 months off for the father with half pay. It's somewhere in that range, I believe. The best part, as a former cubicle dweller, is watching the preggo women get 6 months off with the employers having to hold their jobs available, taking the money and then quitting after the six months of sitting on their asses has expired.

Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

djkutch: Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

HAHA! I'm a member of the Minute Club.

If you two can do the deed in a minute, then gimme your girlfriends' names.

They'll think I'm a GOD.

I, a single male, have full custody of my 3 year old and...

parental leave is retarded.

/wish she would get a job so I could get get child support

Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

How you doin' stallion?

/wink

Ugh, babies. They're like hairless cats, but at least cats have the decency to shiat in a box.

Total threadjack.
The USGS has just agreed to foot the bill (w/ stipend) for #1's postgrad to Phd, in science! And I am jack elated. I took off thirty years to raise my kids. #2 just got his bacc. Does anyone need their lawn mown?

//Yep, I'm tellin' everyone
//I'm sure I cost the taxpayers of the good ol' USA a half hour of overtime bendin' the ear of my mailman
//Who is really, really cool, else operating under deep cover

Neither I nor my wife got any time off when my son was born. Zip. Zero. Nada.

To be fair, my wife had only been with her employer 13 years and I with mine 14, so it's not like we'd actually earned anything.

She decided to quit and be a stay at home mom.

Best decision evar.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Does self employment come with the self-importance and douchebaggery?

...cuz I'm pretty big on myself as it is, and you seem to have the douchebag angle locked up already. I wouldn't want to waste my time.

I asked to take all my vacation at once. My boss asked "Why?" and I answered "because I have it and it would be nice to have two weeks where I get paid but don't have to actually get dressed, and I have sick time incase I get sick and if someone dies I have that thing were I can take time off." She said, "Can't. Company can't let you have that much time off at once." I said, "Two women in our department got pregnant last year and were gone for over a month. If they can have that much time off, then damnit, I should get two weeks off all in one sitting."

If women can take time off for childbirth, then why the fark can't non-parents take that much time off?

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Amen!!!!

/self employment is the ONLY way to go!

I actually considered self employement last year when I was laid off of my last job. I had an interview for a company that was hiring for window washers. I figured I could wash windows while going back to school. Found out that it wasn't business windows it was finding people who would pay to have their windows washed at home. Found out how much they charged and how much they paid their employees I said "Fark that, I'll skip the company and find the work myself and set my own hours." Even figured out that I could pimp out the work corner Mexicans for cheap ass labor to maximize my profits. Too bad I was too lazy to actually execute my plan.

tudorgurl

...I'm the primary breadwinner...

Oh well...at least I get breaks and summers off.

Ouch

fusillade762: You breeders need to chill. You have options. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I know you're probably a troll, but this might help you save some cash!

Link (new window)

I told my boss we were having a baby and she laid me off on the spot. I love people.

Hey subdouche, the vast majority of work involved in having a kid comes after pregnancy.

/on average, Dad pays most of the money, for example

Note to anyone in the US - if you plan on having kids and want time off, get a job where you're covered by the Family Medical Leave act.

Under the FMLA you can take up to 12 weeks unpaid leave a year for stuff like birth of a child, adoption, caring for an ill family member, etc, and the company can't complain or fire you for it, unless they can prove you're faking it. Usually if you want the days paid, you can burn vacation or sick days during that time.
I took off an intermittent 6-8 weeks when my daughter was born last year and got paid for most of it - of course I saved as many vacation days as I could until her birth, and I had almost 4.5 years of sick days saved up.

At least with a pregnancy you have 6+ months of planning time to save up. You're sort of screwed with a sudden illness or injury.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

How's your pension plan coming along?

I8B4U: fusillade762: You breeders need to chill. You have options. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I know you're probably a troll, but this might help you save some cash!

Link (new window)

Why did I click that?

/I want that 30 seconds back, goddammit!

LUXURY!

Not to cry "poor me" but here goes... For kid #1 I could only take 2 weeks off. Kid #2 I was between jobs and that's the ONLY reason I could spend any time worth a flip. Kid #3 I could only take 1 week off, even despite the fact that he was hospitalized for a while due to breathing problems.

With the exception of #3 I wasn't worried about the kids, I wanted to be there to support my WIFE. I know I'd want some help and TLC nearby if I passed 6+ pounds of anything, let alone something for which I had to be the primary feeder/caregiver of afterward.

phlegmmo: But their most severe criticism relates to the gulf between the benefits received by mothers who are already well-off financially and poorer mothers. Mothers earning £50,000 a year and taking six months' leave receive nearly £8,000 from the taxpayer, whereas a mother earning £12,000 would receive £4,500.

And this is not fair? If you earn 50,000 you get less than a sixth of your salary. If you earn 12,00 you get over a third.

I think the point was that if you're making £50,000, you probably have significant savings in the bank (or could make them in the 9 months you're expecting), where as if you're making £12,000, you're possibly living paycheck to paycheck.

Bobby Teenager: Ugh, babies. They're like hairless cats, but at least cats have the decency to shiat in a box.

0/10 for hypocrisy, ya little threadshiatter.

15 seconds,,,OK ladies, does that include foreplay??

There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

15 seconds? How in the heck do you manage to hang in there that long?

I have invented a move I call the "2PQ" 2 pumps and a quiver.

/giggity

phlegmmo: But their most severe criticism relates to the gulf between the benefits received by mothers who are already well-off financially and poorer mothers. Mothers earning £50,000 a year and taking six months' leave receive nearly £8,000 from the taxpayer, whereas a mother earning £12,000 would receive £4,500.

And this is not fair? If you earn 50,000 you get less than a sixth of your salary. If you earn 12,00 you get over a third.

That's exactly how it's not fair.

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Amen!!!!

/self employment is the ONLY way to go!

I was a self employed consultant. Now I am an employee. Both have their pros and cons.

But I mock the level of retard it take to think that your preference would be superior for everyone.

From_The_Year_2000: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Meh, the badge is a two times a day hassle, the clothes are pretty comfortable (and paid for by company), the paid time off is nice because I'm being paid even though I'm not working, and I enjoy the fact that my contributions towards retirement are being doubled and that my health insurance is pretty damn good. Ideally I'd like to come in to work whenever I want, but as far as work goes I think things are well. If things ever improve though I'll be sure to post on a message board to make fun of others not as lucky.

Because that's what a non-shiathead would do.

Crap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

aybara: My wife got one month maternity paid. She had to eat up vacation time to extend it.

I got nothing. I took two weeks just to be there to help out for the first kid.

Sometimes you gotta love the overly rigid, ridiculously pro-worker labor laws in my country:
- 5 day leave for the father
- 6 weeks off before the due date for the mother
- 12 weeks off after the baby's birth for the mother
- Mother can take 1 hour off each day for 24 months for breastfeeding. (though I'm not sure if this one is dependent on the amount/% of women on the office)
- subsidized daycare for 24 months
- Mother has protected job for about 24 months after returning to work: means she only can be fired if you pay her the 24 months of salary (decreases as the 24 months go by). In practice means she can't get fired.

That's what's legally mandated - some companies take it further (my current job has 1 extra day for father's leave, and mothers can return to work working a lighter schedule)

powerserge: There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

Spoken like a true Darwinian Reject.

Yes, you are. You aren't going to be procreating, so there must be something inherently defective with you.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Well, OK, but don't forget, if you're in the USA anyway, that you'll pay an extra portion of your income for SS benefits. Not sure how it's handled in other countries, but her they consider you both the employer and the employee. You get to match your own contribution.

the only leave i got when my girlfriend got pregnant was on a plane to mexico.

kb7rky: StonerbloopersCrap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

Let's see how chipper YOU are 18 months from now...

/unemployment sucks
//especially when the checks run out
///and the bastards make you repay EVERY FARKING CENT, despite NOT having a job
////bitter slashies

/preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...

Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

How's your pension plan coming along?

Pension plans????? MOCK!!!!

powerserge: There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

After you learn to construct proper and meaningful sentences, DIAF!

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

How's your pension plan coming along?

Pension plans????? MOCK!!!!

Yeah...but do you get ANY time off? Do you even get to take a vacation?

Not just one or two days, but a PROPER vacation? No cell phones...no laptops...I mean a real, get-the-fark-outta-Dodge vacation?

Well?

Not sure if this is in the labor laws, our contract or our benefits but IIRC parents here (Manitoba) can take up to 1 year between both parents. One guy from work just got back from 11 months off for paternal leave. I think you're entitled to the same income as either unemployment insurance (66%) or workmans comp (60-70%).

/actual figures estimated
//your results may vary

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Oh, here I was thinking that employment was an arrangement freely entered into by both the buyer and seller of labor, both of who have other options.

According to GAT_00, we all work for 'the nation,' and it treats us 'this bad.' Clearly we can't be trusted to work out employment arrangements that, while imperfect, are suitable enough, and 'the nation' needs to get all up in our business even more than it already does.

I am really unable to grasp what kind of entitlement mentality you must posess to post what I quoted. No one owes you a damn thing. Free men and women work out their own deals for both working for someone and employing someone. Free men and women leave or release someone when the relationship is no longer suitable.

Instead, we have infantalized adults demanding state action on their behalf because they can't imagine themselves earning a living doing anything other than they're currently doing, at anywhere else.

The thinking must go like this: The person or entity that created the job they get paid to perform is the enemy, the worker who collects the paycheck is a poor downtrodden sod chained to their workstation, and the glorious, heroic national employment beaurocracy must pass all manner of family leave regulations to minimize the pain of slavery.

People who think like you do are probably barely employable anyway.

kb7rky: kb7rky: StonerbloopersCrap on you both... unemployment ROCKS! =)

/laid-off do to the "economy"

Let's see how chipper YOU are 18 months from now...

/unemployment sucks
//especially when the checks run out
///and the bastards make you repay EVERY FARKING CENT, despite NOT having a job
////bitter slashies

/preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...preview before post is my friend...

I'm really chipper right now =)
Its great getting to do what I want when I want. I'm not even bored yet, and I've got a lot of time left to draw. And as I was told by the bureaucracy, I don't have to pay any back. Since WV works as Unemployment Insurance system.

/everybody said I'd be bored in a month.
// I'm really just startin to feel GOOD

vertiaset: I remember, when my wife was giving birth and the doctor's treated me as if I were going to faint during the delivery. I told them I grew up on a farm and had seen much worse. Still, after her long labor my daughter's head was shaped like a cone. They popped her out, washed her off, put a cap on her pointy little head and handed her, not to me, but to my mother in law.

Your first mistake was allowing the mother in law to be in the room. If you couldn't muster the gonads required to chase her off, the nurses properly evaluated who was in charge.

\Just had a kid. The mother in law waited in the lounge where she belonged, because she knew that's what I required. She explicitly expressed utter faith that I had everything under control in that room, and I did.

\\I'm really being a blunt asshole tonight, aren't I? I should get back to work.

Never ever hire a woman younger than 40, or a woman older than 40 with young kids.

Don't ask age though, that could get you in potential discrimination trouble. Ask to see the drivers license for "verification purposes." No job candidate will refuse that.

Get a picture frame with a couple of stock photos of kids for your desk. Then use that to get them to admit if they have/want kids. And check a woman's car in the parking lot during the interview or while she is waiting because she will have a car seat or toys in it giving her away.

RembrandtQEinstein: Never ever hire a woman younger than 40, or a woman older than 40 with young kids.

Don't ask age though, that could get you in potential discrimination trouble. Ask to see the drivers license for "verification purposes." No job candidate will refuse that.

Get a picture frame with a couple of stock photos of kids for your desk. Then use that to get them to admit if they have/want kids. And check a woman's car in the parking lot during the interview or while she is waiting because she will have a car seat or toys in it giving her away.


Dear Sir -
I feel uniquely qualified to apply for employment with your fine organization.
Please post info so I may forward a resume'.

Sincerely,
Abbey "Smells a lawsuit" Someone

Playerslight: Speaking as a father of two young kids, I gotta say that heading back to work for an eight-hour break everyday is one of the perks of being a father. I'm (un)lucky enough to have a flexible job that allows me to be home for a couple hours in the morning with them and back early enough to help with dinner and putting them to bed, but that time in the office when all I have to deal with is phone calls and emails and reports and meetings is pure relaxation gold.


the real question is did you use the new coversheet on your tps reports.

I just noticed the "breeder crotch fruit" schnit didn't start until this went green.

vertiaset: Your statement was typical Fark. Farkers always go for the attack first. It is a odd aspect of the culture of this forum but I am used to it.

I bet, you've been posting for over a month now.

So, just had a kid, like late last year. Wife was off 6 mos, 80% pay. Went back to work 60%. Then I am working 50% -- started last month. I will be working 50% until August.

August, 2010.

Have fun with your Family Values (TM), America!

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Wow a self employed code monkey, I am so envious that I am going to cry myself to sleep in the pile of receipts from the past 4 weeks of constant drinking that I get reimbursement for.

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

classy

Zippy_da_Midget: So, just had a kid, like late last year. Wife was off 6 mos, 80% pay. Went back to work 60%. Then I am working 50% -- started last month. I will be working 50% until August.

August, 2010.

Have fun with your Family Values (TM), America!

How's the unemployment rate in your country? I mean, it sounds like you've got a pretty sweet deal there.

The downside is that such state mandates increase the cost of employing everyone, so fewer people can be employed. You're not generating any wealth while you're on leave, but you're costing someone money. That has consequences.

But hey, at least you get to be smug on fark! That's gotta be worth someone being unemployed, right?

Oh, did I mention we are both getting 80-90% pay for the days we don't work?

...and the 200 bucks a month from the government for having a kid until the kid is 18. Per kid.

I will also be starting my vacation, of which I have 35 vacation days. Per year.

/albeit, the pay isn't something to write home about, but that is why you start your own biz making half your regular job salary in 15 minutes a week.

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Depends what you concern treating its citizens bad. I get over half my salary siezed by the kraut government every year. I think that is far worse than not giving paternity time.

dfenstrate

Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. It seems all the PhDs are unemployed or hard to employ (too many of them). All the construction workers have work.

I also have a job offer in hand right now. Means double pay, double work, no parental leave, lots of travel, company car, expense account, etc. But then I can't have my side biz, which basically can provide me those things if I want. Gee, what do you think I'll do? Working for da man is overrated.

Yes, I do have a sweet deal, although not all of it is perfect. Some things I have to do without, some things I have to do with. It just comes down to what some philosopher guy said one time "Freedom is the ability to feel comfortable in your chains".

Zippy_da_Midget: Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. It seems all the PhDs are unemployed or hard to employ (too many of them). All the construction workers have work.

I also have a job offer in hand right now. Means double pay, double work, no parental leave, lots of travel, company car, expense account, etc. But then I can't have my side biz, which basically can provide me those things if I want. Gee, what do you think I'll do? Working for da man is overrated.

Yes, I do have a sweet deal, although not all of it is perfect. Some things I have to do without, some things I have to do with. It just comes down to what some philosopher guy said one time "Freedom is the ability to feel comfortable in your chains".

And what country is this in? Seems even more generous than my socialist overlords here.

Didn't look at my profile? It's Uranus. Either that or Sweden. I hate to say it, but Germany really isn't that socialist in comparison. Isn't that DE has no minimum wage? Lots of unemployment, especially in the former East? Amazing amounts of good beer? Sweden has asswater for beer -- it's really, really bad.

The only medical related cost I had to pay for my kid until now is the 3 days I slept at the hospital in the queen size bed with my wife and kid. Even that was cheap.

Here in Norway, the mother gets 9 months maternity leave at 100% pay, or 12 months at 80% pay. If the father is around, he has to take at least one of those months instead of her, but can take up to half, I think it is.

Now, I lived in the US for 15 years, and while I enjoyed it in many ways, the feeling of safety we have here with socialized health care coupled with nearly free higher education is hard to beat. Yeah, we pay more in taxes than you do in the US, but it's affordable.

Zippy_da_Midget: Didn't look at my profile? It's Uranus. Either that or Sweden. I hate to say it, but Germany really isn't that socialist in comparison. Isn't that DE has no minimum wage? Lots of unemployment, especially in the former East? Amazing amounts of good beer? Sweden has asswater for beer -- it's really, really bad.

I am fairly sure DE has a minimum wage, but don't quote me on that. The unemployment is largely a problem with the east, and each month I pay a 'solidarity tax' to subsidize the ex communists who can't get their shiat together.

I wept when I saw how much of my first bonus I got to keep.

Beer is decent, although the Czechs have the best.

Anyways I made the socialist comparison to the US, simply saying that other than getting more time off here the taxes don't justify the extra work protections.

McMuttons: Here in Norway, the mother gets 9 months maternity leave at 100% pay, or 12 months at 80% pay. If the father is around, he has to take at least one of those months instead of her, but can take up to half, I think it is.

Now, I lived in the US for 15 years, and while I enjoyed it in many ways, the feeling of safety we have here with socialized health care coupled with nearly free higher education is hard to beat. Yeah, we pay more in taxes than you do in the US, but it's affordable.

I have to disagree with you about taxes. I lived in the US for 30+ years, Sweden for 4. Both countries have tax shelters. The US hides the taxes you have to pay one way or another. Sweden puts it up front.

Example: Day Care.

Just like in the US, there is a line to get a place. Once you get a spot, it costs maybe $100-200/month, depending on. Friends in the US pay $800/kid/month. My taxes go to that. Guess what? The kid stipend I get pays for daycare. Or whatever else I choose, since my kid won't be in day care until Fall 2010.

Parental Leave:

465 days, 365 of which are at 80% pay. You can spread them out however you want for the next 8 years. You have to prove you are "doing something" every day of the week, otherwise your Short Term Disability Income Value (magic number they decide how much you get) drops quickly. In the US, you have to work and drop your kid at daycare, or quit working. My taxes here go to that so I can keep working, and create a new taxpayer for my retirement.

Healthcare:

I don't pay insurance premiums. My employer doesn't pay insurance premiums. My taxes go to that. The concept of "not having coverage" doesn't exist here. I tried to explain it in my parent class (where they tell first time families how to handle a newborn -- basically an owner's manual). No one got it. The fact you could go under because of medical issues was just not fathomable.

I worked in US Healthcare. It's night and day different in how a person is considered a human here and a liability that may sue you in the US. My taxes go to that.


All in all, just like any system, you need to understand the ins and outs to see how it could work best for you. In my opinion, for my needs, the US tax system is broken and not worth the effort for me to fix it. Sweden has a better system.

I ultimately pay the same or similar amount of taxes -- possibly even less here -- than the US resulting from all the kid expenses I'd have in the US. You can live so damn cheap in Sweden. Norway, not so cheap, but the pay is higher.

Mind you, if I was a single dude, US homeowner (deductions) all the way. Sweden for procreation and retirement.

lilplatinum:


I'm pretty sure your bonus tax is similar to the US. 50%. Same here in Sweden. But then, you get it based on your income tax level at the end of the year. Pretty standard, really.

Work protections? Those are the biggest joke ever. Permanent employment here is so highly sought after that people think it's the best thing. "They can't fire me! First in, Last out! (swedish law)" Then the company just reorgs, puts you in your own division, then shuts the division down. You magically disappear. Then they hire someone cheaper doing the exact same thing, only not in your defunct division.

Sounds like the US, eh? At-will employment. The drawback is you have to give them 3-6 months notice that you are leaving. And you have to work 100% while you wait for your new job.

BTW, Belgian beer FTW

My mother was in labour with me for 24 hours and I came out at 10.5lbs. My dad spent the entire time drunk.

Even though on some level I sorta like the idea of equality meaning equality, I still go back to remembering the above.

Now I can have my side biz. Hmmm... Wonder if I can bump up the base pay 50% and see if wifey can be home 100%? That could be interesting, but it sure puts me in a risky situation having one income.

Amateur. I could do it in ten.

Zippy_da_Midget: dfenstrate

Actually, the unemployment rate in my field, depending on your skills, is pretty low. (clipped stuff about how life is good for you)

Well, yes, things are good for you. My question was who can't be employed, because the generous leave benefits you enjoyed had to be paid for?

It's good you and your industry are doing well- but what about more marginal industries subject to the same regulations, but who have much smaller profit margins?

Who isn't getting employed so you and your countrymen can enjoy those benefits?

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

What about Zimbabwe, North Korea, or Exaggerastan?

I agree with you: 15 seconds,,,OK ladies, does that include foreplay??

What's foreplay?

/sounds like a waste of time when there might be something on television...

GAT_00: It's funny, I know without having to check that every single person in this thread is an American, because no other nation treats it's working class citizens this bad.

Define "working class". Because I would consider working class to be "blue collar", but a lot of the people in this thread appear to be "white collar", and even white collar professionals in the US typically would not be able to take significant time off for such a thing.

Little.Alex: /sounds like a waste of time when there might be something on television...

But...but...stop watching TV while having sex? You're doing it wrong!

/doesn't even watch TV

If you can only hang in there for more than 15 seconds, you're truly pathetic. Anything less than 5 minutes and you're just a lazy K-Fed douche bag.

Anyhow. I told my girlfriend if she ever gets pregnant and tries to leave me, I'm taking the kid. I want my offspring, not the child-barer.

They make up for it by running the risk of being put in a chokehold by an exhausted wife if they don't wake up every time the baby cries.

When both of girls were born, I got NO time off at all.

AAAAnnnnd tuxq wins the award for bragging about somethng completely off-subject.

Canada has both maternity leave and parental leave. Maternity leave is 17 weeks I believe and is for the birth mother only, regardless of whether she intends to keep the child. Then parental leave is 35 weeks, and can be split between either parent, including the parents of adoptive children, or the non-married partner of the birth mother. I like this because it separates the two, with maternity intended to give the person who gave birth time to recover from the birth, and parental intended to give the caregivers time to bond with and care care for the infant.

At my current employer I got 4 weeks paid which was awesome... My last employer I got nothing and had to take a few vacation days. Current employer is a law firm, the one who gave me nothing was Compuware... Bastards.

lilplatinum
I am fairly sure DE has a minimum wage, but don't quote me on that.

At the moment it hasn't, it has been a popular topic for the upcomingelections.
Well, it sort of has in some sectors, it's somewhat complicated:

There are the "Tariflöhne" that get negotiated for certain sectors between employee associations (unions) and employer associations.

Since April there has been the "Entsendegesetz" that mainly covers construction work and postmen (German post lobbied hard to get those in there to ruin their private competitor PIN).

And there's a law that protects against wages that are against public policy, i.e. they can't be too low compared to what's considered the "usual pay" for the same work in that area (like paying 2 bucks if everyone else gets 6-8 for doing the same things).

I'm just back to work after my second son was born. I was off for 3 weeks. My wife used 1 month of her vacation time to pad out her 1 year maternity/parental leave to 13 months. Her work also tops her up to 86% of her normal pay. EI pays only about $790 every 2 weeks which is pretty useless, so the top up is fantastic.

/Canadian

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

Having done both, I find your perspective really amusing.

Mock my business casual attire - attire I find more comfortable than the dressing up I had to do when dealing with clients when I was self-employed.

Mock my id badge - which is a HUGE impact to my life. Right.

Mock my paid time off - even though you know that every day you don't work is a day your business makes $0. zip. Nada. Vacations are lots of fun when you realize that your income has absolutely halted, and that if something with your business goes wrong you may have to end your vacation right then and there.

Mock my being controlled by someone else - if by controlled you mean given general direction about what tasks they'll give me money to complete, while assuming all financial and legal risk. As compared to before, when my financial future was on the line.

Self-employment works well for some people. Others not so much. My stress plummetted when I shut down my business and went corporate, and hasn't come close to that level since.

Have fun with your mocking, though. You need that outlet, huh?

brainiac-dumdum: Men absolutely need more parental leave after the birth or adoption of a child. Unfortunately, the traditional role of women being considered the "more natural" parent is a stereotype that harms women in the workplace and harms men by belittling their parental contribution. The Patriarchy harms men as well as women.

Word.

dfenstrate:

Well, yes, things are good for you. My question was who can't be employed, because the generous leave benefits you enjoyed had to be paid for?

It's good you and your industry are doing well- but what about more marginal industries subject to the same regulations, but who have much smaller profit margins?

Who isn't getting employed so you and your countrymen can enjoy those benefits?

This is a boring line of questioning, but I'll give you an answer.

Usually it is the people not willing to learn new skills and people with dependency problems, and those with social issues that have difficulties.

As with the US, there is discrimination. Those that look past discrimination, they usually get better employees at a lower price, oddly enough. Those that don't employ the same ole same ole.

Then there is the whole royalty/connected to the right family thing. It's similar to the "good ole boy" network in the US.

But, as you might surmise, the people who want a job, find one, the ones that don't don't. The ones that can't (incapable, ie, handicapped, etc.) find a job are taken care of by society.

Unfortunately, like CA in the 60's, mentally ill people seem to be released on the streets. That means you see a few homeless people around. However, it is nothing compared to the number of homeless people, especially without medical care or education opportunities, found in the US.

Why don't you try living abroad for a year or two in a different country? It could provide you the answers you are looking for...

How do you get it to last for 15 seconds?

Playerslight: Speaking as a father of two young kids, I gotta say that heading back to work for an eight-hour break everyday is one of the perks of being a father. I'm (un)lucky enough to have a flexible job that allows me to be home for a couple hours in the morning with them and back early enough to help with dinner and putting them to bed, but that time in the office when all I have to deal with is phone calls and emails and reports and meetings is pure relaxation gold.

What I would have considered "work" before having kids is a delightful break from what I now realize to be real work.

THIS!! My boss offered me a laptop in case I wanted to stay home and get some work done and I said "Are you kidding? I'll be sneaking in for some extra hours just for a break"

The mothers got shafted to make the babies in the first place, so it's only fair.

The Voice of Doom: And there's a law that protects against wages that are against public policy, i.e. they can't be too low compared to what's considered the "usual pay" for the same work in that area (like paying 2 bucks if everyone else gets 6-8 for doing the same things).

At that point its more profitable to just sit around and get harz 4..

LousyTourist: How do you get it to last for 15 seconds?

I usually break for a bout of coughing and wheezing halfway through.

trixter_nl: the real question is did you use the new coversheet on your tps reports.

PC LOAD LETTER. WHAT THE FARK IS THAT?

SuperChuck: THIS!! My boss offered me a laptop in case I wanted to stay home and get some work done and I said "Are you kidding? I'll be sneaking in for some extra hours just for a break"

My boss asked if I wanted to take a month of paternity leave and I think I actually snerked.

I love the little devils and I help out as much as I possibly can, but my two-year-old knows that he has to play on his own during the day. Daddy will play with him when he's home from work. If I was home from work for a month he'd become so dependent and needy it'd take weeks of beatings to make him independent again.

I'd definitely get in shape chasing him 10 hours a day, however. It might be worth the 50% paycut.

As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

brainiac-dumdum: vertiaset: Your statement was typical Fark. Farkers always go for the attack first. It is a odd aspect of the culture of this forum but I am used to it.

I bet, you've been posting for over a month now.

I think you just proved him right

When my second child was born, my boss begged me to come back to work that night to run our month end reports (something he could have done). And like an idiot, I drove an hour and 15 minutes into work, ran the reports, drove back to the hospital to be with my wife and child, drove back to work early in the morning, was forced to stay until noon, drove back to the hospital, came back to work that afternoon to run the daily reports. My wife is now due any day with our third child (and our first son). When we head up to the hospital (same one), I'm staying there. He can run the reports himself.

AbbeySomeone: Abbey "Smells a lawsuit" Someone

Greater chances of lawsuits with sympathetic plaintiffs is yet another reason not to hire a woman, particularly a woman with children. Sure you go through all the motions to create weasonable doubt but never actually go through with it.

Yes, just remember those 15 seconds of baby making...



Or look at this picture of a sandwich. Whatever.

UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

Congratulations! We had our first in June.

Sleep now. Fark your hobbies. SLEEP NOW!! You'll miss it once the little one's here.

UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

mcsestretch: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

Congratulations! We had our first in June.

Sleep now. Fark your hobbies. SLEEP NOW!! You'll miss it once the little one's here.

I'd say fark the wife and ignore your hobbies. Sleep is important, but you can't bank it so really, what's the use? I'd strongly suggest doing lots of stuff as a couple, maybe even spontaneously. Go to movies, shows, dinner, romantic walks, long drives through the country, etc as much as you possibly can from now until the new year. Because with the exception of the few days a year the grandparents take the kids, that'll be much more difficult in January.

powerserge
There was a woman at where I work recently who just went on paid leave of absence, because she is pregnant. This upsets me, getting pregnant in the 21th century is a fully controllable thing, yeah accidents happen, but to be paid because she made a choice to keep this baby, screw that. You wanna have kids you do it on your time.

I'm all for parental leave... as long as everyone else is likewise entitled to multiple months of paid leave for their respective lifestyle decisions.

rat_creature: I'm all for parental leave... as long as everyone else is likewise entitled to multiple months of paid leave for their respective lifestyle decisions.

You should run for congress and fight to have that implemented. Or, conversely, continue to anonymously post passive-aggressive morally-superior tripe on internet message boards.

Playerslight: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

mcsestretch: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

Congratulations! We had our first in June.

Sleep now. Fark your hobbies. SLEEP NOW!! You'll miss it once the little one's here.

I'd say fark the wife and ignore your hobbies. Sleep is important, but you can't bank it so really, what's the use? I'd strongly suggest doing lots of stuff as a couple, maybe even spontaneously. Go to movies, shows, dinner, romantic walks, long drives through the country, etc as much as you possibly can from now until the new year. Because with the exception of the few days a year the grandparents take the kids, that'll be much more difficult in January.

A ZILLION TIMES THIS!

djkutch: Solid State Vittles: Whatever, subby, I can go for almost TWICE that long.

HAHA! I'm a member of the Minute Club.

ha, 3 minute club member.

By the way, speaking of sex and the miracle of birth and all that, anyone have that iconic picture of a grilled cheese sandwich that evokes grandma's sexy time? Did a GIS and nothing.

I have to email it to someone who thought the sandwich above was disgusting.

The prude.

/They're not a Farker, obviously

The Icelander: Employees:

I mock you.

I mock your business casual attire.

I mock your ID badges.

I mock your paid time off.

I mock you being controlled by someone else.

I mock you.

Sincerely,
A self-employed person.

\P.S. - MOCK.

right on. it gets lonely at the top but you're the only one up there
/have pc repair buisness
//because i can

mwinberry: When my second child was born, my boss begged me to come back to work that night to run our month end reports (something he could have done). And like an idiot, I drove an hour and 15 minutes into work, ran the reports, drove back to the hospital to be with my wife and child, drove back to work early in the morning, was forced to stay until noon, drove back to the hospital, came back to work that afternoon to run the daily reports. My wife is now due any day with our third child (and our first son). When we head up to the hospital (same one), I'm staying there. He can run the reports himself.

Meh. When we had our kids we delivered at the hospital Mr. Chick works at. (He's in IT there) So we had his boss, his boss's boss and everyone else from his department in the delivery room asking him questions about work.

sotua: Playerslight: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

mcsestretch: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

Congratulations! We had our first in June.

Sleep now. Fark your hobbies. SLEEP NOW!! You'll miss it once the little one's here.

I'd say fark the wife and ignore your hobbies. Sleep is important, but you can't bank it so really, what's the use? I'd strongly suggest doing lots of stuff as a couple, maybe even spontaneously. Go to movies, shows, dinner, romantic walks, long drives through the country, etc as much as you possibly can from now until the new year. Because with the exception of the few days a year the grandparents take the kids, that'll be much more difficult in January.

A ZILLION TIMES THIS!

LOL! Thanks everyone, I'll keep that in mind. Luckily, the grandparents live close (~45 minutes), so we could have them watch the baby, but that won't be for a little bit.

/Glad I have 4 weeks of vacation starting January 1 :)

UHC2005: sotua: Playerslight: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

mcsestretch: UHC2005: As a person whose wife is due in January with our first, I'm really getting a kick (in the nuts) out of these replies... :)

Congratulations! We had our first in June.

Sleep now. Fark your hobbies. SLEEP NOW!! You'll miss it once the little one's here.

I'd say fark the wife and ignore your hobbies. Sleep is important, but you can't bank it so really, what's the use? I'd strongly suggest doing lots of stuff as a couple, maybe even spontaneously. Go to movies, shows, dinner, romantic walks, long drives through the country, etc as much as you possibly can from now until the new year. Because with the exception of the few days a year the grandparents take the kids, that'll be much more difficult in January.

A ZILLION TIMES THIS!

LOL! Thanks everyone, I'll keep that in mind. Luckily, the grandparents live close (~45 minutes), so we could have them watch the baby, but that won't be for a little bit.

/Glad I have 4 weeks of vacation starting January 1 :)

Congrats. I'd take that advice. Be a couple now, because you won't get a chance later.

//parent of two delightful chicklets.

Playerslight
You should run for congress and fight to have that implemented. Or, conversely, continue to anonymously post passive-aggressive morally-superior tripe on internet message boards.

You ought to post a rebuttal backed by valid arguments explaining why you disagree. Or, conversely, continue to anonymously resort to passive-aggressive ad-hominem attacks on internet message boards.

Seriously, though. It is not my intent to undermine the importance of paternity leave with regards to the welfare of the child - kids do better as adults the more active their parents' roles in raising them are, and, yes, a certain amount of replacement (though probably not as much as we're seeing) is necessary for the continuation of our species and progress of society. However, children come into the world solely by the decisions of their parents to have them, and it makes no sense to make employers fund employees for certain life decisions and not for others. It makes no difference to a company if an employee takes a year off to bear and raise a baby or to nip off to the steppes to study Buryat shamanism (and in the second case, the company won't even have to extend its share of offered health insurance premiums to cover a new dependent).
And, no, I admittedly do not have some awesome solution to propose here. Perhaps if the government were to cover parental leave costs for a company (for, say, up to the replacement level of two kids per family), since it is ultimately the government which benefits from welcoming new future taxpayers... far from a perfect idea (higher taxes and othersuch at the very least), but perhaps a bit more fair.

rat_creature
It is not my intent to undermine the importance of paternity leave

Whoops, make that parental leave. Sorry, still caffeinating...

vertiaset:
That little cone headed girl is now 15, bright, beautiful and everything I could have wished for.
You're from France, aren't you?

/meepps

Interesting that in a country that regularly passes idiotic legislation "for the children" and claims to be so family friendly, family oriented, family family family family, blah blah blah, that people still get so little time off to have/care for a new infant.

Makes our supposed commitment to children/parenthood/families look like something of a mockery. I wonder when either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to do something about that, rather than making sure we don't see a nipple during the Super Bowl halftime show or hear the word "fark" on an awards show.

RembrandtQEinstein: Never ever hire a woman younger than 40, or a woman older than 40 with young kids.

And some people, like dfenstrate, wonder why working folks view employers as assholes...

theoriginalslash: Interesting that in a country that regularly passes idiotic legislation "for the children" and claims to be so family friendly, family oriented, family family family family, blah blah blah, that people still get so little time off to have/care for a new infant.

Makes our supposed commitment to children/parenthood/families look like something of a mockery. I wonder when either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to do something about that, rather than making sure we don't see a nipple during the Super Bowl halftime show or hear the word "fark" on an awards show.

Let me explain it to you: freaking out over halftime football events is cheap. Putting your money where your mouth is, by supporting working fathers and mothers, is expensive. Controlling other people's sex lives is relatively cheap, too, and provides vicarious thrills for people who don't have a sex life or keep it on the down low.

OTOH, I have an employer that actually supports parents, and gives them parental leave for both childbirth and adoption. For moms AND dads. Good for them!

RembrandtQEinstein: AbbeySomeone: Abbey "Smells a lawsuit" Someone

Greater chances of lawsuits with sympathetic plaintiffs is yet another reason not to hire a woman, particularly a woman with children. Sure you go through all the motions to create weasonable doubt but never actually go through with it.


Asthmatic doubt?

I just finished my five weeks of paid paternity leave, so I'm getting a kick out of those replies...

/First day back at work
//1503 e-mails in the inbox. Dammit.

rat_creature: You ought to post a rebuttal backed by valid arguments explaining why you disagree. Or, conversely, continue to anonymously resort to passive-aggressive ad-hominem attacks on internet message boards.

The latter, of course.

I didn't respond with an argument because as a society we have accepted that childbirth and rearing is a necessary component to advancing civilization, whereas your three-month paid surfing trip may not be. But even that's not completely true, as there are certainly employers who provide for paid and unpaid sabbaticals which could be used for whatever ends you deem necessary.

To provide for mandatory extension of the benefit provided to parent to non-parents would require popular support, hence my 'congress' comment. Unless you don't actually want to change the rules and instead just wanted a debate, in which case this entire discussion is a little masturbatory.

Bobby Teenager: Ugh, babies. They're like hairless cats, but at least cats have the decency to shiat in a box.

This is, in all seriousness, exactly how I feel about children.

/doing my part not to overpopulate the planet

brainiac-dumdum: Men are not given enough credit for their nurturing side, and that's a shame.

This, italicized, bolded, underlined, embiggened enough to be seen from space.

My husband just ended his parental leave. He went on it in the first place because well... he could, but because our dr. recommended it because with our first child, I had terrible post partum depression, and he couldn't get time off then. So this time, he got to stay home for 9 months after our son was born, which I believe is the reason (or a big reason) why I'm not like I was last time. I couldn't even leave the house last time because I had agoraphobia. He went back to work in june, and got laid off the next day (thanks, boss) because of a "lack of work", so now he's back on EI until september. yay.

If he had simply impregnated me, and had say, some interest in the kid, but we didn't live together, then there is no way he would get parental leave (or at least he shouldnt). its there so you can stay home and take care of the kid. its not a vacation.

ciocia: Let me explain it to you: freaking out over halftime football events is cheap. Putting your money where your mouth is, by supporting working fathers and mothers, is expensive. Controlling other people's sex lives is relatively cheap, too, and provides vicarious thrills for people who don't have a sex life or keep it on the down low.

You forgot to mention that the motto of the United States used to be "E Pluribus Unum", then "In God We Trust" in the 50s, now we have a number of mottoes to choose from:

Not In My Backyard
Do As I Say, Not As I Do
God Said, It, I Believe It, That Settles It
Fark You

And my personal favorite:

A Conservative Is Someone Who Has No Moral Qualms About Other People Suffering For His Principles.

Kinda late to the party BUT... My husband lucked out. His name is Robin, so they took one look at his name, and gave him 6 weeks maternity leave with BOTH our babies. He said it was one of the best experiences, and 10 years later, he is still a hands on father, and the kids adores him.

aybara: My wife got one month maternity paid. She had to eat up vacation time to extend it.

I got nothing. I took two weeks just to be there to help out for the first kid.

I've got a seven-week-old, so I'm really not getting a kick out of these replies. My company is incredibly stingy with pay and vacation. They had a shutdown last Xmas that required me to take vacation from this year to cover last year. We have another shutdown this Xmas. This means I've got about 8 days to use for the entire year. I took a week off when my son was born. Now I have 3 days left. Of course, there's the Family Medical Leave Act, which allows me 12 weeks unpaid w/o losing my job, but it's unpaid. My wife is taking only 8 weeks FMLA (also unpaid). We just can't afford to take any more time unpaid. I've often wondered if any of the lawmakers have kids, because the whole FMLA is a farking joke. Yes, take time out to lay the proper foundation for America's next generation, but bend over and take it in the arse to do so. Something just doesn't seem right. No wonder kids become bratty shiats these days...

I want to work for Rembrandt. I hate carrying other employees, and their children, and all the other issues that come along with both.

Grackel: I want to work for Rembrandt. I hate carrying other employees, and their children, and all the other issues that come along with both.

You know what? You may be sorry for that someday. I am unmarried and childless, but my employer's generous benefits help me care for my mother, and helped when dad was alive and ailing. Unless you hatched from an egg, family leave benefits are your friend.