theMightyRegeya: Some days I wish I'd just said "screw it" and went the vocational route, though. The guys who went for heating/AC are doing a lot better than I am.

I've been toying with going back, but right now have no idea what I'd go for. Nursing pulls in decent money, but I'd probably end up on the news.

Maybe I'll just become a blogger.

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the things you were trained in don't actually get any training at the university level, as you're expected to pick them up in about half an hour by reading the six-page manual and maybe some online supplementals. Except for pre-professional radio broadcasting, which doesn't even require that.

It seems kind of unfair to judge real college negatively on the grounds that they teach things you have to have some minimal intelligence to absorb. The entire world cannot be geared toward the dumbest individual possible, we'd get nowhere.

//Admittedly I do have a lot more welding knowledge than can be absorbed in 30 minutes, but somehow I'm doubting that your MIG/TIG class covered quantitative effects stemming from molecular adhesion and variable corrosion and expansion coefficients in welded zones.

//Also welding properly does takes some practice. Not training... just practice.

You'd be surprised . . . the full welding course of study is a two year Applied Science degree - Many Boeing welders are sent to that program. And a large number of commercial underwater welders start from the Northwest first start at that CC.

Degree overview (new window, pdf)

Program Overview (new window)

It's not a intellectually taxing program, but it's also not a 30 minute read either.

theMightyRegeya: I'll point out, though, that I probably count as one of those people who wouldn't have made the cut if I'd gone straight to uni, though...'twas a big help.

The salutatorian at my high school partied out of Stanford his first semester. I bumped into him at the local CC second semester, and he was really embarrassed to caught at the loser school that took him in even though he was an idiot and blew his chance at a real education. Lulz

IXI Jim IXI: o5iiawah: The lessons i learned being 1,000 miles from home and doing things on my own far outweigh the few grand I could have saved by living at home for 2 years and transferring. The life/business skills that I picked up from being anonomyous at a 4-year school are worth far more, IMO.

In other words, the drinking.

I have to agree with o5iiawah. I learned more by going to a 4 year out of state school than my 124 credits show.

Also, there are more hot girls and the parties are better.

tacks: Major Universities are quickly becoming, if not already, outside of the average Americans ability to go to them.



You hit the nail on the head - average isn't their ideal candidate.

So you're saying that if a kid's parents are not in the upper income brackets they are not qualified to go to a four-year university?

andrewskdr: IXI Jim IXI: o5iiawah: The lessons i learned being 1,000 miles from home and doing things on my own far outweigh the few grand I could have saved by living at home for 2 years and transferring. The life/business skills that I picked up from being anonomyous at a 4-year school are worth far more, IMO.

In other words, the drinking.

I have to agree with o5iiawah. I learned more by going to a 4 year out of state school than my 124 credits show.

Also, there are more hot girls and the parties are better.

You probably could have learned that shiat in 2 years instead of 4 and saved yourself several thousands of dollars.

WaltzingMathilda: Death to New Rome: I'm having my doubts about the credibility of Major Universities(Non hard science majors of course) but these local community colleges and degree mills? Come on, I would rather have the billions spent on some kind of free T.V. stations that show educational programming or something. This is just feeding the already outrageous education racket here. This government truly is a one trick pony. Bad form Obama BAD FORM!

so if you're having your doubts about majors, and consider locals bad too ... then where do you feel you get a good education? small private schools that are about 2,000 enrollment and cost 45k a year?

please, subsidizing education is the first thing we need to do to get our country competitive globally again. and some of the best institutions in america are public, major universities.

sure, thousands of idiots slog their way through with a C average and party the whole time, but it's not like they find jobs easily. blame a subsection of america for their behavior, not universities. we need to be more pro-education in our mindsets.

No, I think he's saying that everyone should major in engineering and science, because that's all we need in society.

Fun fact -- the University of Iowa used to get about 50% of its funding from the state. Now it gets about 9%. Universities are running on a shoestring because we don't believe in education anymore. This news about Community Colleges is nothing but a good thing -- maybe the same thing will happen on the university level.

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, the things you were trained in don't actually get any training at the university level, as you're expected to pick them up in about half an hour by reading the six-page manual and maybe some online supplementals. Except for pre-professional radio broadcasting, which doesn't even require that.

Ahem (new window, pdf)

Versus 4 year University broadcasting program . . . Link (new window)

The Madd Man: Our local CC is so bad we call it Montgomery Kollege. Maybe it's different other places.

Gaaaaaaaaaaah not MCJC!

/ Graduated from RMHS in '90
// Did a semester @ MCJC before hopping a Greyhound to FLA

blindpreacher: That's funny. I was talking with a friend about this the other day. Can you give an example what engineering degree that would be?


Software engineering? That's the only one I see on their website. So I guess fenianfark is right, you would be laughed at by engineers.

Gamer Grrrl: andrewskdr: IXI Jim IXI: o5iiawah: The lessons i learned being 1,000 miles from home and doing things on my own far outweigh the few grand I could have saved by living at home for 2 years and transferring. The life/business skills that I picked up from being anonomyous at a 4-year school are worth far more, IMO.

In other words, the drinking.

I have to agree with o5iiawah. I learned more by going to a 4 year out of state school than my 124 credits show.

Also, there are more hot girls and the parties are better.

You probably could have learned that shiat in 2 years instead of 4 and saved yourself several thousands of dollars.

And you can also see the world by looking at pictures on the internet! That can also save you many thousands of dollars, as well as time. But sometimes getting the experience is money well spent.

Pxtl: Depends what you go to college for. CCs have their own moronic useless disciplines on par with the Liberal Arts degrees of university, but with none of the prestige.

On the other hand, a diploma and apprenticeship in plumbing or a similar trade will net you a good job in the real world.

About the Liberal Arts degrees: This. I mean, who wants to spend many thousands of dollars to get a BA in...French Literature and Philosophy? I mean, I cannot imagine a more useless degree than one in reading and thinking.

That being said, I'm a little biased because I'm working on an AAS (Electronic Engineering Technician program) in a community college, and I love it there. I don't pay a dime thanks to Pell Grants, and my instructor is an experienced technician who has been teaching for about... 30 years, I think. More money for CC's could be a very very good thing. Our lab is filled with primarily 10 year old test equipment which is essentially all donated from Fluke (though I've heard that some Universities don't do much better.)

So, you CC-haters, get down from your ivory tower, any education is better than no education, and community colleges seem to be more concentrated on making people intelligent and employable, rather than just the former.

Wulfman: blindpreacher: That's funny. I was talking with a friend about this the other day. Can you give an example what engineering degree that would be?


Software engineering? That's the only one I see on their website. So I guess fenianfark is right, you would be laughed at by engineers.

I always thought engineers laughed at 'software engineers' because the later made more money for less rigorous course work.

WCHeadhunter: tacks: Major Universities are quickly becoming, if not already, outside of the average Americans ability to go to them.

You hit the nail on the head - average isn't their ideal candidate.

So you're saying that if a kid's parents are not in the upper income brackets they are not qualified to go to a four-year university?

I'm not saying they're unqualified I'm just saying they would prefer to have candidates coming from a higher net worth family - in theory they can consume more college services and have the ability to contribute more.

Most of the people who rag on CC are just pissed because they wasted tons of money on the same thing from a University. Nearly every class I've taken from CC has been great. Smaller classes, with teachers who actually take the time to help you learn what you need. I completed A&P 231-234 with with a class of about 15 people. My teacher was reputably the hardest tester on campus, but she took more time than any other teacher I've had to answer your questions and pound the science into your head to make sure you connect the dots.

Best part? I've got 2 years and about 50 credits that count the same at nearly every oregon university and I worked part time during school. I don't owe a penny.

My friends are still changing majors three years in, and they've racked up debt at least into the 50k range.

dlime16: As someone going to a CC I have to say they are pretty hit or miss. I went on the advice that a lot of you are repeating here. However, I'm currently taking classes that are about HS level, most of the people are barely literate, and my professors range from barely competent to annoying liberal douchebags who think the classroom is a soap box (yeah, I know a 4 year has those too but they just feel so much less appropriate at a 2 year). I'm sure there are good ones but I'm not at one.

/Not sure if I can finish without kicking one of the unwed mothers in the stomach.


Let me guess something here. When you write a paper that goes against those 'liberal' values and you get a poor grade it's because they're 'liberal douchebags", correct?

Mighty Taternuts: dlime16: annoying liberal douchebags who think the classroom is a soap box

This is why I like engineering. It is hard to convey a liberal or conservative bias when teaching thermodynamics or finite element analysis.

Hehe. That's the joy of getting past the core classes, period, imho. I was so glad to get the core classes out of the way; for some reason, English instructors think it's their job to remind you that, if you're a white male and you're taking the class, you're part of the problem. If you express a problem with that, well, you weren't hoping for an A or B out of the class, were you?

My opinion was always this: I'm on your side. However, don't expect me to express the opinion, and don't make my grade dependent upon the opinion that the world would be a better place if we always gave preferential treatment, if all the positions of power were held by minorities, and if all those guys would just recognize that women are superior. My opinion, rather, is that the world would be a better place if we'd stop bleating about continued expansion of "equal" opportunities laws and just work on making society color- and gender-blind. Sorry; I was brainwashed by Gene Roddenberry. ;-)

I work at a community college, and we've not gotten a raise in several years, and we're underpaid compared to non-educational jobs doing the same stuff, so I'd really get a kick out of it if some of those billions made it into my paycheck...

theMightyRegeya: Hehe. That's the joy of getting past the core classes, period, imho. I was so glad to get the core classes out of the way; for some reason, English instructors think it's their job to remind you that, if you're a white male and you're taking the class, you're part of the problem. If you express a problem with that, well, you weren't hoping for an A or B out of the class, were you?

I took a Women Studies class at a cal state because it filled my elective requirement faster. The amount of BS I had to sling and endure in that class was so mind numbing. That class is what made me realize that all higher learning has large amounts of BS to slog through, and that people who say one form of higher learning is better then another are typically elitist snobs who need to feel some sense of entitlement in exchange for all the money and time they spent.

At this point I think a cc or vocational school is better time and money spent when you're looking to train for a job. Unless you're going into law or med. Other then those two, you can earn your degree to go and teach so the circle of BS can continue.

I work in a CC IT department... and the sad part is I don't think that I'll see dollar one of any of that... especially now that our raises are frozen for three years.

ArtemisGoldfish: Pxtl: Depends what you go to college for. CCs have their own moronic useless disciplines on par with the Liberal Arts degrees of university, but with none of the prestige.

On the other hand, a diploma and apprenticeship in plumbing or a similar trade will net you a good job in the real world.

About the Liberal Arts degrees: This. I mean, who wants to spend many thousands of dollars to get a BA in...French Literature and Philosophy? I mean, I cannot imagine a more useless degree than one in reading and thinking.

That being said, I'm a little biased because I'm working on an AAS (Electronic Engineering Technician program) in a community college, and I love it there. I don't pay a dime thanks to Pell Grants, and my instructor is an experienced technician who has been teaching for about... 30 years, I think. More money for CC's could be a very very good thing. Our lab is filled with primarily 10 year old test equipment which is essentially all donated from Fluke (though I've heard that some Universities don't do much better.)

So, you CC-haters, get down from your ivory tower, any education is better than no education, and community colleges seem to be more concentrated on making people intelligent and employable, rather than just the former.


I have a political science degree and think it was worth it.

Even if I never get a job as a professor, teacher or go to law school, it helps me with my debating skills and throught processes.

theMightyRegeya: Mighty Taternuts: dlime16: annoying liberal douchebags who think the classroom is a soap box

This is why I like engineering. It is hard to convey a liberal or conservative bias when teaching thermodynamics or finite element analysis.

Hehe. That's the joy of getting past the core classes, period, imho. I was so glad to get the core classes out of the way; for some reason, English instructors think it's their job to remind you that, if you're a white male and you're taking the class, you're part of the problem. If you express a problem with that, well, you weren't hoping for an A or B out of the class, were you?

My opinion was always this: I'm on your side. However, don't expect me to express the opinion, and don't make my grade dependent upon the opinion that the world would be a better place if we always gave preferential treatment, if all the positions of power were held by minorities, and if all those guys would just recognize that women are superior. My opinion, rather, is that the world would be a better place if we'd stop bleating about continued expansion of "equal" opportunities laws and just work on making society color- and gender-blind. Sorry; I was brainwashed by Gene Roddenberry. ;-)

Um, as a white male and an English instructor I take offense at your stereotype of us. Also, I'll let you in on a secret -- what I say in class to get a rise out of you and get your lazy ass to talk and think may nor may not be what I actually think. And I've never graded a student down for having an opinion I disliked. I grade based on the ability to support that opinion from sources and the development of a logical argument, even if the argument makes me grit my teeth at the narrowness of the viewpoint expressed.

My personal take on Identity-based departments (Women's studies, Black Studies, etc) is that they're a bad idea. I like the idea of working groups that deal with gender and race made up of people from across the curriculum and I like the idea of courses that provide non-canonical viewpoints, but departments tend to either have really kick-ass people or folks that are content to play in the intellectual ghetto their identity provides them with and don't move beyond that.

CCs are really good for two things. First, some people just aren't ready for college or don't have the money for a 4-year school. Spending time at a CC is cheaper than wasting money at a four year school, plus people usually show off the name of the 4-year school they then transferred to.

Second, they are good when a person realizes they want to change career paths and don't have the training expected in that field. It's not uncommon for people who were liberal arts throughout college to suddenly want to go into medicine or another field that makes money, but lack the credits to be accepted. Credits from CCs are usually acceptable. My older brother has a master's in education, but needs a couple of credits in science and social studies to become a state-certified teacher in science or social studies. Since it would be too expensive to go back to a 4-year school for a few measly courses, he's going to get them from a CC in the fall.

The President's idea is a good one since CCs are still useful, particularly when 4-year schools are so expensive and the economy is in the crapper. It lets people become educated and gain the skills to be a contributing citizen at a low cost, while a "selective" school might have rejected them for having low SATs and GPA.

Most employers these days want Bachelor's or Master's degrees.

A college degree means nothing if there are no jobs in those fields.

What do these people live on while they are attending college? We are talking 2 - 4 yrs if they attend Full Time. More welfare?

New Democrat Meme:

GET A COLLEGE DEGREE OR DIE!!!

Hrmm....Obama drove past my house about 15 min. ago. You could kinda see him in the armored-prez-mobile, but there he went.

Interesting.

spcefrk: (Cue the 'but I was the first to graduate in my family thanks to CC' whiners. Yeah? So was I. And you assholes are making me get a Ph.D sooner or later.)

Much anger in you. And class- based douchebaggery.

I have two degrees, one from a university and one from a private school and I find it interesting that the richer the kids are and the more they brag about where they went to school, the more anti-intellectual they are (except for the engineering, science and math students). Anecdotal, of course.

/mostly talking about MBAs

Community colleges are the smartest way to go these days> Example:

The local CC in california is still $20.00 a unit. you need 60 units or better to transfer to a CSU or state, and most CC's have guaranteed transfer. 60 units = $1200.00, plus another $400.00 for fees, books etc. makes the cost of all your lower division requirements only $1600.00 over two years. Plus, if you're poor enough, some CC's waive tuition and most of the fees.

SDSU is $3,754 per year (2009), plus up to $35 in lab fees per class. 4 years is $14,296 for tuition alone - CC saves you over $7500 dollars

UCSD is $8,906 a year for tuition, 4 years is $35,624. CC saves you $17,812.

CSU San Marcos is $3,011 a year, 4 years is $12,044. CC saves you over $6000.

If you're local and don't take advantage of deals like this, you're an idiot. CC works.

Let's recognize this for what it is: another handout to another union. Community colleges and junior colleges are really extensions of High School. Their faculties have a tendency to be very much unionized. A lot of the money flowing from the government into these institutions will go right to union members and the unions.

Community and Junior colleges are wonderful institutions that serve a very useful purpose. But don't believe for a minute that Obama gives a rip about educating any students. Just before he announced this massive windfall for CCs and Jucos he told the audience that automotive jobs weren't coming back. I guess he knows that as CEO of the auto companies. His cap and trade legislation, should it be passed, will drive any manufacturing jobs overseas faster than we've ever seen. What he's talking about here is making the proles believe he is spending money on them while he's really funneling it into the pockets of his supporters and delaying the day the proles figure out there is no future for them other than government servitude.

Maybe he should pump money into some jobs for all those CC degrees.

/only 23 years old
//already eternally bitter
///farking useless Inspection Technology degree

matrygg:
Um, as a white male and an English instructor I take offense at your stereotype of us. Also, I'll let you in on a secret -- what I say in class to get a rise out of you and get your lazy ass to talk and think may nor may not be what I actually think. And I've never graded a student down for having an opinion I disliked. I grade based on the ability to support that opinion from sources and the development of a logical argument, even if the argument makes me grit my teeth at the narrowness of the viewpoint expressed.

I think too many people refuse to believe that teachers are capable of that. They'd much rather take solace in thinking the only reason they got a poor grade is because they went against 'your viewpoint'. Never mind that they didn't have a thesis statement and wouldn't know a primary source if it bit them on the arse, it's that the professor hates me. (oh and they think Word's grammar check is up to college level writing)

spcefrk: Community Colleges are good for one thing: shafting the system back by not paying your own university for those bullshiat core classes. Almost everyone I know that went to community college went there because they couldn't hack it in a four-year school. The remaining few realized that credit hours were accepted by our university but cost half as much and were at least twice as easy.

Community Colleges are a festering boil on the higher education system. It's why I had to get a Masters to make sure I don't get some shiat job right out of school. It's why I have to get my Ph.D to keep competitive. Undergraduates are a dime-a-dozen and just as inept with a degree as they were stumbling out of high school. CC's cheapen the whole system. What's going to happen when we've all got at least one Ph.D in some menial task? Something's gotta break.

\Made the mistake of actually taking all my courses at my university
\\Paid out of state tuition -- assholes
\\\Engineer laughing at all these Philosophy and Business majors serving me lunch today. College is for higher education, not fark around 'till I find something I want to do. That's called high school.

(Cue the 'but I was the first to graduate in my family thanks to CC' whiners. Yeah? So was I. And you assholes are making me get a Ph.D sooner or later.)

Don't you have to be at the gym in 26 minutes?

azazyel: matrygg:
Um, as a white male and an English instructor I take offense at your stereotype of us. Also, I'll let you in on a secret -- what I say in class to get a rise out of you and get your lazy ass to talk and think may nor may not be what I actually think. And I've never graded a student down for having an opinion I disliked. I grade based on the ability to support that opinion from sources and the development of a logical argument, even if the argument makes me grit my teeth at the narrowness of the viewpoint expressed.

I think too many people refuse to believe that teachers are capable of that. They'd much rather take solace in thinking the only reason they got a poor grade is because they went against 'your viewpoint'. Never mind that they didn't have a thesis statement and wouldn't know a primary source if it bit them on the arse, it's that the professor hates me. (oh and they think Word's grammar check is up to college level writing)

The general consensus seems to be that it's part of the culture of blame kids are surrounded with these days. It's never their fault; instead, it's the fault of some external, because they are special and unique snowflakes.

I'm generalizing, of course, but that seems to be the general thrust of things. It even goes so far as what the conception of a grade is. A grade is earned by the student, but most of my freshmen (or first-years, if you're sensitive -- I think that term is clunky but I understand why it's there) seem to think that I give them the grade. It's a rhetorical trick that puts the blame on the instructor for the grade rather than the student. And since the grade is the thing for them, rather than the knowledge gained, they get upset.

Maybe, in one of these threads, I'll tell the story of the girl who begged me to give her a C without doing the work, then accused me of abandoning her because I refused to do so.

CC's are great. I started at one and managed to get all of my Trig and Calc out of the way along with a ton of other non-core classes for about half the price. I was pretty poor. The second Calc class didn't transfer but I ended up testing out of it anyway thanks to my CC classes. I did take some core classes that did transfer. I then ended up at well respected university. One thing that I like about CC's (at least where I am from) the profs were actually people in the industry and were teaching in their known subjects, my accounting teacher was a CFO at a local Corporation. The VP at my company now teaches at a CC in business and management. My C++ teacher was Lead Programmer at the corporation he worked at during the day. I was in a pretty good league of people. I was somewhat disappointed at some of my profs at the uni when I went, they were lifetime profs and most didn't have real world experience that was relevant within 20 years, they just taught by the book (or at least their TAs did).

BlorfMaster:
University Level College: Learn Kepler's law and calculate the orbits of various planets. Learn Newtonian physics and calculate various things. Exams were almost all math.

HUGE difference.

You went to the wrong CC... I got Kepler, Copernicus, newton, Fermi and Einstein in the 100 level Physics course at the CC I attended... and this wasn't even the physics course for chemistry, physics or engineering majors. That 200 level class was down the hall, by the dents in the wall where students would beat their heads before class.

The instructor for the class I took knew that for most of his students, this would be the only hard science they took for their AA or AS, or when they transferred... so he made his hard science HARD, with most of the math not in the tests, but in the labs, which counted for half the grade... and his classes were always full. It's all in what you make of it.

"Give to the united negro college fund... because a mind is a
terrible thing to waste on a negro"

/must be over 30 to remember those commercials

Gamer Grrrl: o5iiawah: IXI Jim IXI: o5iiawah: The lessons i learned being 1,000 miles from home and doing things on my own far outweigh the few grand I could have saved by living at home for 2 years and transferring. The life/business skills that I picked up from being anonomyous at a 4-year school are worth far more, IMO.

In other words, the drinking.

Budgeting, responsibility, networking, ethic.

Yes, drinking too

I knew too many snowflakes, unwed mothers, or kids with helicopter parents who are 25 and dont act a day over 17 because they went to CC or a school a stones' throw from where they live.

Right, it's the community college's fault, not the douche parents' or the douche kid's.

/Might I suggest an English Grammar class next semester? Or heck, summer school?
//I really don't think unwed mothers don't act a day over 17. And if they are at your college, you should applaud them and kiss their feet because they are working hard to improve their lives.

putting psychology 101 texbooks on one's credit card does not a better life make. Im an engineer, I dont need grammar classes for the interwebs.

fenianfark:

U of Phoenix is a joke. Anyone that is hiring will not so much as look at a U of Phoenix graduate. Try getting an engineering degree there and then telling other engineers that you are also an engineer. You will be laughed at.

I agree with a lot of your post, but that school scams the poor and ignorant into taking out student loans for worthless degrees.

Ditto ITT Tech. Proprietary education does not equal community college.

o5iiawah: putting psychology 101 texbooks on one's credit card does not a better life make. Im an engineer, I dont need grammar classes for the interwebs.

Amazon dude, Amazon

Solar Plexus!: fenianfark:

U of Phoenix is a joke. Anyone that is hiring will not so much as look at a U of Phoenix graduate. Try getting an engineering degree there and then telling other engineers that you are also an engineer. You will be laughed at.

I agree with a lot of your post, but that school scams the poor and ignorant into taking out student loans for worthless degrees.

Ditto ITT Tech. Proprietary education does not equal community college.

Yet that's the model that insisting that a college education must map directly to a career is following. Why the logical disconnect, since that seems to be the motive behind a lot of the 'liberal arts is for losers, omg comp-sci 4 life!' mentality I see on the internet.

o5iiawah:
/Might I suggest an English Grammar class next semester? Or heck, summer school?
//I really don't think unwed mothers don't act a day over 17. And if they are at your college, you should applaud them and kiss their feet because they are working hard to improve their lives.

putting psychology 101 texbooks on one's credit card does not a better life make. Im an engineer, I dont need grammar classes for the interwebs.

First off, philosophy is interested in what makes a better life. Psychology is concerned with the study of the mind and how it functions.

Secondly, the notion that an engineer doesn't need to be able to communicate to others is bullshiat. I can, and have, gotten programming gigs in part because I could communicate to the salespeople what we needed as IT to do our jobs. Without the ability to communicate, you're just a robot who gets mad at the bad info you get from the operators.

/Yes, I used to be a web developer/DBA.
//I hated it, now I'm working on my PhD in English.
///it takes all kinds.

Haruko_Haruhara: Hrmm....Obama drove past my house about 15 min. ago. You could kinda see him in the armored-prez-mobile, but there he went.

Interesting.

I want your Vespa. And your guitar. ;-)

Having gotten one degree through a community college (one that's nicknamed "Harvard On the Hill" - yes it's tough) and being a person that's in a paramedic program conducted by a community college (the way it's done in most - if not all- states), I have a little insight in to what some of you are saying. True there are some bad community colleges out there (the ones that aren't sanctioned by the state are the ones that are diploma mills) but for the most part they are wonderful. Those of you bashing community colleges obviously have no idea what you're talking about and I will thusly thank you to shut it.

wee beastie: All of you putting down 2-year, public colleges really need to re-assess your belief that everyone who could, should go to a traditional 4-year institution. Community colleges and for-profit colleges (ITT / U of Phoenix) are the ones training your nurses, lab techs, mechanic, HVAC repairman, plumber, electrician, paralegals, etc. I could go on and on; the list of jobs they train for is mindnumbing. The fact of the matter is that over 50% of the jobs in the world do not need a 4-year college education.

These schools have tremendous job placement rates. Don't believe me? For-profit ed providers (ITT / UofP / Lincoln) are mandated to provide this data to the govt (including starting salaries) or they can't participate in Federal lending programs to the students. Show me any 4-year college that will publish that hard data. Fact of the matter is they won't.

Community colleges provide a necessary service at a cheap cost, and it represents a sector that has been shunned and ridiculed for decades while the economy has boomed. Now that the market is turning around and traditional 4-year students are having difficulty finding jobs, we are beginning to realize that we've been overeducating below average individuals who would have been better served with a 2-year degree and less student debt.

Well said.
/Spent too much $ on a liberal arts degree (though it's technically a BS, just to make us feel better)
//Spending a shiat ton on law school.
///Do they have community college law school?

artvsscience: wee beastie: All of you putting down 2-year, public colleges really need to re-assess your belief that everyone who could, should go to a traditional 4-year institution. Community colleges and for-profit colleges (ITT / U of Phoenix) are the ones training your nurses, lab techs, mechanic, HVAC repairman, plumber, electrician, paralegals, etc. I could go on and on; the list of jobs they train for is mindnumbing. The fact of the matter is that over 50% of the jobs in the world do not need a 4-year college education.

These schools have tremendous job placement rates. Don't believe me? For-profit ed providers (ITT / UofP / Lincoln) are mandated to provide this data to the govt (including starting salaries) or they can't participate in Federal lending programs to the students. Show me any 4-year college that will publish that hard data. Fact of the matter is they won't.

Community colleges provide a necessary service at a cheap cost, and it represents a sector that has been shunned and ridiculed for decades while the economy has boomed. Now that the market is turning around and traditional 4-year students are having difficulty finding jobs, we are beginning to realize that we've been overeducating below average individuals who would have been better served with a 2-year degree and less student debt.

Well said.
/Spent too much $ on a liberal arts degree (though it's technically a BS, just to make us feel better)
//Spending a shiat ton on law school.
///Do they have community college law school?

Well, we know there's a GED in Law...

artvsscience: wee beastie: All of you putting down 2-year, public colleges really need to re-assess your belief that everyone who could, should go to a traditional 4-year institution. Community colleges and for-profit colleges (ITT / U of Phoenix) are the ones training your nurses, lab techs, mechanic, HVAC repairman, plumber, electrician, paralegals, etc. I could go on and on; the list of jobs they train for is mindnumbing. The fact of the matter is that over 50% of the jobs in the world do not need a 4-year college education.

These schools have tremendous job placement rates. Don't believe me? For-profit ed providers (ITT / UofP / Lincoln) are mandated to provide this data to the govt (including starting salaries) or they can't participate in Federal lending programs to the students. Show me any 4-year college that will publish that hard data. Fact of the matter is they won't.

Community colleges provide a necessary service at a cheap cost, and it represents a sector that has been shunned and ridiculed for decades while the economy has boomed. Now that the market is turning around and traditional 4-year students are having difficulty finding jobs, we are beginning to realize that we've been overeducating below average individuals who would have been better served with a 2-year degree and less student debt.

Well said.
/Spent too much $ on a liberal arts degree (though it's technically a BS, just to make us feel better)
//Spending a shiat ton on law school.
///Do they have community college law school?

If you're going to a two-year for-profit school like ITT Tech, you'll spend as much as you would for a 4-year degree at some state schools. I was shocked; my Bachelor's at a State School was cheaper and carried more value than an Associate's at ITT Tech.

Juniper Jupiter: You probably should HAVE used your college education to further your grammar skills.

/What? I'm just saying!
//I only had ONE year of college...and that's just because the college kept having technical "problems" getting my high school transcripts through...yeah, right.
///If it makes you feel any better, I've long forgotten how to use punctuation! :D

I'll admit me grammer skills ain't the best. This is why I'm not an English major.

matrygg: o5iiawah:
/Might I suggest an English Grammar class next semester? Or heck, summer school?
//I really don't think unwed mothers don't act a day over 17. And if they are at your college, you should applaud them and kiss their feet because they are working hard to improve their lives.

putting psychology 101 texbooks on one's credit card does not a better life make. Im an engineer, I dont need grammar classes for the interwebs.

First off, philosophy is interested in what makes a better life. Psychology is concerned with the study of the mind and how it functions.

Secondly, the notion that an engineer doesn't need to be able to communicate to others is bullshiat. I can, and have, gotten programming gigs in part because I could communicate to the salespeople what we needed as IT to do our jobs. Without the ability to communicate, you're just a robot who gets mad at the bad info you get from the operators.

/Yes, I used to be a web developer/DBA.
//I hated it, now I'm working on my PhD in English.
///it takes all kinds.

my language whilst farking is different than the language I use at work. I actually have my BA in what some might consider a "liberal" discipline.

Give the man a break.

He is a first-term Democratic president who has inherited a catastrophic economy including, among other things, a failing domestic auto industry from a highly criticised Republican predecessor. And he has to deal with political turmoil and a possible revolt in Iran, plus an increasingly belligerent Russia. And his religion is widely misunderstood by the public.

My God.

He's Jimmy Carter.

accelerus - I won't knock Community colleges - i got a couple of credits in on the cheap that transferred to A&M for my main degree... it was easy, effective, and one of the only reasons i graduated on time.

That being said -- if you want to increase the quality of education and students coming out of any higher education... start toughening up middle and high schools.

Sweet and Sour Jesus, THIS! High school may be as far as many people get in their education and sometimes the "little things," like how NOT to plagiarize research for a paper, needs to be hammered in and NOT allowed to slide.

Came for the community college hate wharrgarbl, and thought for the first 1/10th of the thread that I might be among reasonable people who don't have a chip on their shoulders.

But then they showed up, waiving their pricier degrees that they're so proud to be paying off for the next 20 years.

Some community colleges leave something to be desired. But most serve their students well. Granted, some of those students are barely literate idiots. But most are not.

I have an AA in journalism (from a program that wins national awards almost annually and, many alumni have informed me, provided a better education than the 4-year programs they transfered to later). I have no other collegiate education.

I went on to a very successful 10-year career as a journalist, with syndication in dozens of newspapers and on even more web sites. Afterwards I embarked on a new career in software and website QA, and am having success in this field as well. My lack of a 4-year degree has not made one scrap of difference.

Community college isn't the right place for everybody. But to look down on these schools only goes to show that your 4-year+ education didn't teach you some of the more important things in life, like the fact that earning letters to put after your name doesn't make you special. It just means you took a particular path in life.