I have long believed community colleges to be one of the most underrated economic engines in the country. It's also one of our most democratic institutions. I wouldn't have been the first member of my entire family to graduate from college if it weren't for CC.

CC's are government services at their most cost-effective and best.

"Communisty Colleges"? Ugh...

Nabb1: "Communisty Colleges"? Ugh...

Someone needs a cut of those billions, apparently.

Can we call them what they are - vocational schools?

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Nabb1: "Communisty Colleges"? Ugh...

Someone needs a cut of those billions, apparently.

That's what I thought at first, but then I looked and I thought about:

communisty colleges.

Hence, my "ugh."

HenryFnord: Can we call them what they are - vocational schools?

Well, since that's not what they are, I would advise against it. I think community college captures the gist.

Nabb1: That's what I thought at first, but then I looked and I thought about:

communisty colleges.

Hence, my "ugh."

Yeah, well let's hope they chuck a fist full of those billions into Social Studies or History programs, then. Or at least rhetoric.

Howie Spankowitz: I have long believed community colleges to be one of the most underrated economic engines in the country. It's also one of our most democratic institutions. I wouldn't have been the first member of my entire family to graduate from college if it weren't for CC.

CC's are government services at their most cost-effective and best.

But then you don't get the knowledge and experience that comes from partying for four...er, six...years while going a hundred thousand dollars in debt.

Could you dump that into the real colleges first Obama? Thanks. Two straight years of 20% increases as I finish up isn't nice.

GAT_00: Could you dump that into the real colleges first Obama? Thanks. Two straight years of 20% increases as I finish up isn't nice.

Because a sure way to keep the price of something down is to subsidize it.

Community College is a very underrated institution. A lot of people that go and hang out at university because it's the "in" thing to do would be much better served with a trade skill

I'm having my doubts about the credibility of Major Universities(Non hard science majors of course) but these local community colleges and degree mills? Come on, I would rather have the billions spent on some kind of free T.V. stations that show educational programming or something. This is just feeding the already outrageous education racket here. This government truly is a one trick pony. Bad form Obama BAD FORM!

Completely agree with the President on this one. Community colleges are perhaps the most cost-effective ways to get higher education. The credits transfer to most 4 year schools, and even many graduate schools recommend community colleges to incoming students who need to make up some undergraduate prerequisites.

Howie Spankowitz: HenryFnord: Can we call them what they are - vocational schools?

Well, since that's not what they are, I would advise against it. I think community college captures the gist.

True--community colleges are like grades 13 & 14. For when you can't get into a real college.

/Went to community college for 1 year because, although I got accepted into the university I wanted, I couldn't get housing that year.
//Besides, since my father was a head of security @ the CC, tuition was free.
///Classes were a joke. Got a 4.0 and never bought a book.

letdown102: Completely agree with the President on this one. Community colleges are perhaps the most cost-effective ways to get higher education. The credits transfer to most 4 year schools, and even many graduate schools recommend community colleges to incoming students who need to make up some undergraduate prerequisites.

Nail. Head.

All of you denigrating CC's as "degree mills" or somehow not being "real" college are beyond ignorant. Look at the transfer stats to four year colleges from CC's in California. Most of these students might not have had an opportunity to go to college if not for CC's.

Bored Horde: Community College is a very underrated institution. A lot of people that go and hang out at university because it's the "in" thing to do would be much better served with a trade skill

Absolutely. In fact, I've often advocated letting kids who are so inclined to trade off the last two years of high school for some serious vo-tech training to learn a skilled trade. A certified welder can make way more than a Starbucks barista with a BA in English, anyway.

Death to New Rome: I'm having my doubts about the credibility of Major Universities(Non hard science majors of course) but these local community colleges and degree mills? Come on, I would rather have the billions spent on some kind of free T.V. stations that show educational programming or something. This is just feeding the already outrageous education racket here. This government truly is a one trick pony. Bad form Obama BAD FORM!

so if you're having your doubts about majors, and consider locals bad too ... then where do you feel you get a good education? small private schools that are about 2,000 enrollment and cost 45k a year?

please, subsidizing education is the first thing we need to do to get our country competitive globally again. and some of the best institutions in america are public, major universities.

sure, thousands of idiots slog their way through with a C average and party the whole time, but it's not like they find jobs easily. blame a subsection of america for their behavior, not universities. we need to be more pro-education in our mindsets.

Howie Spankowitz: All of you denigrating CC's as "degree mills" or somehow not being "real" college are beyond ignorant. Look at the transfer stats to four year colleges from CC's in California. Most of these students might not have had an opportunity to go to college if not for CC's.

Yeah, but it's still basically a glorified 13th grade.

brigid_fitch: Howie Spankowitz: HenryFnord: Can we call them what they are - vocational schools?

Well, since that's not what they are, I would advise against it. I think community college captures the gist.

True--community colleges are like grades 13 & 14. For when you can't get into a real college.

/Went to community college for 1 year because, although I got accepted into the university I wanted, I couldn't get housing that year.
//Besides, since my father was a head of security @ the CC, tuition was free.
///Classes were a joke. Got a 4.0 and never bought a book.

Yeah...you went to a shiatty community college. They do exist. You chose a bad one. I have had involvement with CC's as a student, staff person, consultant and United Way exec and have seen first hand the positive impact they have had.

Donald_McRonald: Howie Spankowitz: All of you denigrating CC's as "degree mills" or somehow not being "real" college are beyond ignorant. Look at the transfer stats to four year colleges from CC's in California. Most of these students might not have had an opportunity to go to college if not for CC's.

Yeah, but it's still basically a glorified 13th grade.

Stop spouting cliches and stereotypes. That was funny 15 years ago. Wait...it wasn't funny then, either.

Well Donald_McRonald has one of the most egotistical profiles I've ever seen on Fark, so it's possible that he really does think he's the world expert on college and that it's ivy league or bust.

Howie Spankowitz: Stop spouting cliches and stereotypes. That was funny 15 years ago. Wait...it wasn't funny then, either.

Acutally, it looks like it's going to be very funny this fall:

Bored Horde: Well Donald_McRonald has one of the most egotistical profiles I've ever seen on Fark

You sound like a muppet.

Howie Spankowitz: Yeah...you went to a shiatty community college. They do exist. You chose a bad one. I have had involvement with CC's as a student, staff person, consultant and United Way exec and have seen first hand the positive impact they have had.

Oh, I'm not denying I went to a shiatty CC. I'd never been so bored in my life. But it is true that all my credits transferred w/ease, even if I didn't learn anything.

Hopefully that's changed over the past 20 years since I was there.

WaltzingMathilda: sure, thousands of idiots slog their way through with a C average and party the whole time, but it's not like they find jobs easily. blame a subsection of america for their behavior, not universities. we need to be more pro-education in our mindsets.

As I stated I have great respect for some parts of the U.S. University system they are still the best in the world for hard sciences and such, but from what I have seen the other sides of the school have turned into some kind of a racket. I completely agree with you that America needs to be more pro education in our mindsets but what gets beamed into most of American's brains everyday? That's right our T.V. sets and that is why I said I would rather have some programs introduced that provides educational programming. Some idiot flashing around his online degree in Computa Teknogy and Bizznazzz doesn't impress me and it sure as hell doesn't make me feel confident in the direction our country is heading.

ne2d: Because a sure way to keep the price of something down is to subsidize it.

You clearly aren't aware of how state schools work.

Bored Horde: Well Donald_McRonald has one of the most egotistical profiles I've ever seen on Fark, so it's possible that he really does think he's the world expert on college and that it's ivy league or bust.

I don't see anything egotistical about a 7000 word profile, including "submissions" and "threads I've won."

Death to New Rome: WaltzingMathilda: sure, thousands of idiots slog their way through with a C average and party the whole time, but it's not like they find jobs easily. blame a subsection of america for their behavior, not universities. we need to be more pro-education in our mindsets.

As I stated I have great respect for some parts of the U.S. University system they are still the best in the world for hard sciences and such, but from what I have seen the other sides of the school have turned into some kind of a racket. I completely agree with you that America needs to be more pro education in our mindsets but what gets beamed into most of American's brains everyday? That's right our T.V. sets and that is why I said I would rather have some programs introduced that provides educational programming. Some idiot flashing around his online degree in Computa Teknogy and Bizznazzz doesn't impress me and it sure as hell doesn't make me feel confident in the direction our country is heading.

sure, i guess i took offense at the exception only being for hard sciences as business degrees from great institutions are still very necessary in this country (especially if we're going to crop leaders to keep america economically healthy).

besides, a business degree is a BS isn't it?

/has a BA and a JD from major US unis, feels very educated and a contributing member of society

Howie Spankowitz
Well, since that's not what they are, I would advise against it. I think community college captures the gist.

From TFA it looks like the President's plan includes vocational schools. At least that's what I thought they were referring to by "training certificates: "Community colleges are two-year schools that generally grant associate degrees or training certificates." I could be wrong though.

Nabb1
Absolutely. In fact, I've often advocated letting kids who are so inclined to trade off the last two years of high school for some serious vo-tech training to learn a skilled trade. A certified welder can make way more than a Starbucks barista with a BA in English, anyway.

Certainly we need to be advocates of these schools. Around here the state chain of schools is called Ivy Tech. You can get your tech training there of course. You can also take core curriculum courses there at a low tuition rate then transfer the credits to any public university in the state. The tuition is barely more than half what the university down the street charges.

At any rate, not everyone should be trying to get a traditional four year degree. I certainly agree that some are best served by vocational training.

brigid_fitch: True--community colleges are like grades 13 & 14. For when you can't get into a real college.

Community colleges vary in quality much in the same way 4-year schools do.

While I find that the community college classes I'm taking now are easier than those I took as an undergraduate 10 years ago, it's a far cry from being 13th grade.

And actually, since many more community college instructors are industry professionals rather than theorists, the 'average' student may even be better served by a community college education.

brigid_fitch: Hopefully that's changed over the past 20 years since I was there.

Hey Brig, didn't you you go to Montclair State after CC?
/fellow Montclair State College alumni 81, before it became a university

GAT_00: ne2d: Because a sure way to keep the price of something down is to subsidize it.

You clearly aren't aware of how state schools work.

What exactly did you mean by "dump that into the real [sic] colleges first"?

I took some math courses from my local CC a while back in order to save money at the big Uni I was going to, and I found them to be quite challenging. Not quite what I'd get from the Russians teaching the courses at the 4-year, but enough so that I made it through the pre-req requirements with ease.

The CC system where I am (north san diego county) is pretty strong, and so popular that it's insanely difficult to get a seat unless you're in a degree program. Funny how the market hasn't made up for this apparently very high demand and limited supply.

America needs more ditch diggers too.

i make more money and have a better job than all of the people i know who have 4 year degrees. that said, most of the people who go to cc's are idiots.

WaltzingMathilda: Death to New Rome: WaltzingMathilda: sure, thousands of idiots slog their way through with a C average and party the whole time, but it's not like they find jobs easily. blame a subsection of america for their behavior, not universities. we need to be more pro-education in our mindsets.

As I stated I have great respect for some parts of the U.S. University system they are still the best in the world for hard sciences and such, but from what I have seen the other sides of the school have turned into some kind of a racket. I completely agree with you that America needs to be more pro education in our mindsets but what gets beamed into most of American's brains everyday? That's right our T.V. sets and that is why I said I would rather have some programs introduced that provides educational programming. Some idiot flashing around his online degree in Computa Teknogy and Bizznazzz doesn't impress me and it sure as hell doesn't make me feel confident in the direction our country is heading.

sure, i guess i took offense at the exception only being for hard sciences as business degrees from great institutions are still very necessary in this country (especially if we're going to crop leaders to keep america economically healthy).

besides, a business degree is a BS isn't it?

/has a BA and a JD from major US unis, feels very educated and a contributing member of society

Great, can you represent me on my future public drunkenness charge this weekend in CT? I'm going to a 3-day party and I'd like to know I have legal representation beforehand. I can pay a retainer of a 22-oz bottle of Southern Tier Iniquity Black Ale.

doublesecretprobation: that said, most of the people who go to cc's are idiots.

I know many people who went to community college for a year or two to stock up on transferable credits as a cheaper alternative to taking the plunge at a university for four years. Like many things, it is what you make of it.

cameroncrazy1984: Great, can you represent me on my future public drunkenness charge this weekend in CT? I'm going to a 3-day party and I'd like to know I have legal representation beforehand. I can pay a retainer of a 22-oz bottle of Southern Tier Iniquity Black Ale.

since i'm a transactional attorney, i probably don't command much more than a bottle of beer as a retainer for a criminal case.

Nabb1: doublesecretprobation: that said, most of the people who go to cc's are idiots.

I know many people who went to community college for a year or two to stock up on transferable credits as a cheaper alternative to taking the plunge at a university for four years. Like many things, it is what you make of it.

I did this many years ago and only had about 5 credits not transfer to the University - I took those 5 non-transferable credits for my A.A. degree.

cameroncrazy1984: Great, can you represent me on my future public drunkenness charge this weekend in CT? I'm going to a 3-day party and I'd like to know I have legal representation beforehand. I can pay a retainer of a 22-oz bottle of Southern Tier Iniquity Black Ale.

Paying a lawyer with alcohol for a public drunkenness charge...

Oh, and Community Colleges aren't so bad. I went to a 4 year university but probably wouldn't have graduated in 4 years if I didn't take some of my core classes at a CC. Switching from Electrical Engineering to Business Computer Systems and then to a Math degree gives you a few classes you don't end up needing.

Though I do wish I went to a CC my first year or two. It would have given me a cheap way to figure out what profession I wanted to pursue.

Howie Spankowitz: I wouldn't have been the first member of my entire family to graduate from college if it weren't for CC.

If it weren't for my horse, I would have never spent that year in college.

CC's are a great transition step for those who graduate from a sub-standard high school that didn't exactly do a good job of teaching many of the basics. You know, like pre-calc algebra.

I would give that headline nine marx out of ten.

Hopefully, my SO will receive a pay raise because of this.

/She works at a CC.

I can't believe that bastard is putting this money into education when it could be used to kill people.

Our local CC is so bad we call it Montgomery Kollege. Maybe it's different other places.

Nabb1: "Communisty Colleges"? Ugh...

Oh come on, I chuckled.

My wife went for two years to CC, got her BA at a state school and her Masters from a private school. She now teaches at a CC. She contends that CC instructors care more than any other professors she'd had during her years in school. So, now she's one of them. CC is just like anything else, you get out what you put in.

letdown102: Completely agree with the President on this one. Community colleges are perhaps the most cost-effective ways to get higher education. The credits transfer to most 4 year schools, and even many graduate schools recommend community colleges to incoming students who need to make up some undergraduate prerequisites.

Completely agree. I knew some people in high school who didn't get into their college of choice, so they went to CC, did extremely well and eventually transferred. Definitely a good thing. I mean look at Rudy.

Nabb1: Bored Horde: Community College is a very underrated institution. A lot of people that go and hang out at university because it's the "in" thing to do would be much better served with a trade skill

Absolutely. In fact, I've often advocated letting kids who are so inclined to trade off the last two years of high school for some serious vo-tech training to learn a skilled trade. A certified welder can make way more than a Starbucks barista with a BA in English, anyway.

In Mexico and other countries they do that, you get into trade school instead of HS.