Memoryalpha: Ah, auto-tuned garbage music. Thought that was on it's way out? Honestly I'm surprised that they allowed a child to make such a life changing decision.

I concur. What kind of monster would allow their 16-year-old child to create an autotune recording? It's not like you can call "do-overs" on something that horrifying and perverse if you change your mind some day. Bad music is forever. Just ask Carl Douglas

Dr. Mojo PhD: The surgery and procedures should be performed as early as possible, especially for the health of the transsexual. Fighting the body's natural hormones isn't as healthy as redirecting those hormones, and the primary and secondary sex characteristics forming the adult body are difficult to reverse; for the transsexual's mental health and stability its better to nip that in the bud than it is to permit a mixing of sex characteristics or to allow the sex characteristics to develop fully. It also requires less surgery to do so.

I'm skeptical about that. I'm not a doctor, but common sense tells me it's unwise to do such a radical surgical procedure on someone who is not fully physically matured.

Most responsible plastic surgeons discourage girls under 18 from even getting breast implants, for the reason that they're still growing and it's difficult to predict how their future growth might adversely affect them post-op.

Sex change operations should be viewed with even more careful analysis in teenagers. The potential for unwanted side effects seems awfully risky. Wouldn't it be better if they waited a few years?

Epsilon: That's gross. Do you know what guys end up with when they get a sex change? A smelly, bacteria breeding, dry cavity. You want to put your d*ck into that? I'd rather choke on my own vomit.

Uh, yeah. Not so much. It takes about three seconds on Google for anyone to discover that a mucous membrane is transferred to the neovagina during a vaginoplasty. Additionally, Cowper's gland is left intact. Cowper's gland is the homologue to Bartholin's gland in women, the primary source of lubrication in women. The neovagina is capable of secretions roughly analogous to a genetically female vagina. The presence of mucous membranes additionally protect from bacteria, naturally, and therefore would reduce and supposed smell.

That's Google for you. I could bust out my Psych 101 textbook -- something anybody can get at any post-secondary institute, really -- pop the chapter on sexual identity and sex reassignment, and explain how grossly wrong you are, but hey. I'm sure you love propagating what is essentially the modern day version of Jim Crow.

Your Average Witty Fark User: You know you'd stick it in her ass. Anyone who denies it is a liar, or a woman who doesn't own a strap-on.

FTFY

Epsilon: I'm skeptical about that. I'm not a doctor, but common sense tells me it's unwise to do such a radical surgical procedure on someone who is not fully physically matured.

That's actually not quite as big of an issue as you would seem to think. And whilst you pointed out the fact that young girls are dissuaded from getting breast implants and other cosmetic surgery, the reason for such things isn't because of the technical problems related to the operation, but because the doctors want to make sure that the patient is mentally fit to undertake such a decision.

In this case, I tend to agree with Kim's doctor - this seems like an exceptionally clear cut case and one that doesn't come a long very often to boot.

On the flip side however, considering Kim started hormone therapy at the age of 13, it wouldn't have really made that much of a difference if she had her gender reassignment surgery at 16 or 18. The hormones were keeping her from developing male secondary physical characteristics anyway and quite likely she'll have to keep taking them for the rest of her life in any case.

In a perfect world we'd have... well, perfect diagnosis capabilities for this stuff. If that was established, then I could see no reason for not performing the surgery as soon as it's physically viable. But until then, I do feel that doctors need to be very careful and that it's probably best to wait until the patient mentally matures enough to fully undertake responsibility for the outcome of the surgery.

That being said, I 100% support starting hormone therapy young for transgendered girls. The last thing the world needs is more fugly trannys. Blech.

Tim/Kim in about 40 years:


/hot like the little tranny

Epsilon: I'm skeptical about that. I'm not a doctor, but common sense tells me it's unwise to do such a radical surgical procedure on someone who is not fully physically matured.

Yeah, well that's your problem, isn't it? The whole point of sex reassignment is to give the transsexual person some peace of mind. To give them a body that they identify with. The sooner it is performed, the better. You think it's wise to let them mature into a fully sexualized male or female body, then do the operation?

That's the surgical equivalent of letting a tumor grow to its most malignant size before removing it. It virtually defeats the entire purpose of the surgery in the first place.

Most responsible plastic surgeons discourage girls under 18 from even getting breast implants, for the reason that they're still growing and it's difficult to predict how their future growth might adversely affect them post-op.

And most responsible plastic surgeons will perform breast reductions on girls who have breasts so large as to cause chronic pain. Most responsible plastic surgeons will perform an implant or reduction on girls who have lobsided breasts. Most responsible plastic surgeons will perform breast reduction on teenage men with severe gynecomastia. Most responsible plastic surgeons will perform facial reconstruction and skin grafting on child burn victims. Most responsible plastic surgeons will perform any operation which is therapeutic to the patient.

What you're doing is equivocating. You're assuming that cosmetic = plastic = elective surgery. You're not differentiating between Marsha wanting bigger boobs because Marsha wants all the boys and Marsha wanting bigger boobs because one is an A cup and the other is a C cup. You're assuming sexual reassignment surgery is the same thing as a rhinoplasty to fix a Roman nose.

Oh hey, guess what: It's not. While it involves external, cosmetic changes it is most definitely done for a reason.

Sex change operations should be viewed with even more careful analysis in teenagers. The potential for unwanted side effects seems awfully risky. Wouldn't it be better if they waited a few years?

Unwanted side-effects like what? What unwanted side-effects are you imagining? It's not like their penis grows back after the surgery. Are you dropping medical buzzwords to advance your point or do you actually understand what you're talking about?

What could happen to a 16-year-old that couldn't happen to an 18-year-old during SRS? They grow a second head?

Here's the reality: The older they get, the less plastic they get. They're less malleable, and the changes their bodies undergo are far more set in stone. It's far more invasive, and therefore dangerous, to the person to wait. It's far less invasive to intervene early, perform a few treatments, and let nature take it the rest of way. Anything else is in your imagination.

Bill approves.

Would hit it anyway, after consulting Daniel and Nick.

His music sucks. Major vocal affects that have been auto-tuned to really boring pop. I'm sure he'll be able to make a living doing this, if only because of the novelty have having a being transgendered. It doesn't change the fact that his music sucks.

Despite all appearances, he won't be a "woman" until his first ovulation.

As someone who identifies as gender queer, if I could travel back in time and transition at 12 or 13 like she did, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I had no idea what I was back then, and let's face it, the 70s probably weren't the best time to have gender issues as a little boy.

I have no formal education in mental health or gender identity issues, but I don't need any of that there fancy book lernin; my common sense tells me that this is wrong and that IT would be much happier as a man. Also, South Park did an episode about this, so I know for sure that I'm right.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Epsilon: That's gross. Do you know what guys end up with when they get a sex change? A smelly, bacteria breeding, dry cavity. You want to put your d*ck into that? I'd rather choke on my own vomit.

Uh, yeah. Not so much. It takes about three seconds on Google for anyone to discover that a mucous membrane is transferred to the neovagina during a vaginoplasty. Additionally, Cowper's gland is left intact. Cowper's gland is the homologue to Bartholin's gland in women, the primary source of lubrication in women. The neovagina is capable of secretions roughly analogous to a genetically female vagina. The presence of mucous membranes additionally protect from bacteria, naturally, and therefore would reduce and supposed smell.

That's Google for you. I could bust out my Psych 101 textbook -- something anybody can get at any post-secondary institute, really -- pop the chapter on sexual identity and sex reassignment, and explain how grossly wrong you are, but hey. I'm sure you love propagating what is essentially the modern day version of Jim Crow.
You elitist liberals make me sick. You think that just because you're "educated" on so-called "science" that you know what's RIGHT. The Bible trumps medical science EVERY TIME. Burn in hell, homofag.

Sxooter: As someone who identifies as gender queer, if I could travel back in time and transition at 12 or 13 like she did, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Why? There's noting wrong with being gay or lesbian. The only thing I think you could really gain by doing something like that is it's easier to hide being transgendered (not in ALL cases, I've met someone where the whole process was an abyssal failure on, he made a really ugly woman).

Just be who you are, as long as your not being malevolent, there's nothing with you.

mister aj: You elitist liberals make me sick. You think that just because you're "educated" on so-called "science" that you know what's RIGHT. The Bible trumps medical science EVERY TIME. Burn in hell, homofag.

I love you too, man.

So, HAMMERTOE, a woman who never ovulates isn't ever a woman? A young girl who has her ovaries removed before puberty, but takes female hormones and develops otherwise as a woman, isn't a woman cause she can't provide an egg for someone to fertalize?

Are all sterile women not women then? Do they stop being a woman at 50 something when they hit menopause?

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Why? There's noting wrong with being gay or lesbian. The only thing I think you could really gain by doing something like that is it's easier to hide being transgendered (not in ALL cases, I've met someone where the whole process was an abyssal failure on, he made a really ugly woman).

Just be who you are, as long as your not being malevolent, there's nothing with you.

Genderqueer isn't gay/lesbian. It's a pretty broad spectrum of gender identification issues (I use the term neutrally). Anyway, don't assume genderqueer to mean queer or, for that matter, transsexual.

So a teenage boy chopped off his penis and then had it shoved inside his pelvic cavity to make a "vagina".

Anybody else read this as "youngest ever sex swap pornstar"?

/shudders to think what this says about me

mister aj: would be much happier as a man.

Your Troll-Fu sucks. You really should work on it.

That being said, this is demonstrable wrong. People with body/gender identity disorder are pretty much ALWAYS happier after having the offending body part removed or changed in the way they felt it should have been when they were born.

It's one of those things, you're VERY unlikely to find anyone having any regrets about doing. I'm sure if you looked around you could find someone somewhere who changed their mind when it was too late. They would be a clear minority.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: It's one of those things, you're VERY unlikely to find anyone having any regrets about doing. I'm sure if you looked around you could find someone somewhere who changed their mind when it was too late. They would be a clear minority.

I'm also sure if you looked at that minority, you would find some sort of underlying mental illness. I had a friend of mine that went extremely schizophrenic, and decided that because he had been gay, he should be a woman. He wanted to save up for sex reassignment, but of course he'd never get it. He just didn't want to be gay, and was mentally ill.

Renowned transvestite sexologist

Link (new window)

Gender Queer does not mean gay or lesbian... Your whole post seems to follow from a presupposition that it does.

mister aj: You elitist liberals make me sick. You think that just because you're "educated" on so-called "science" that you know what's RIGHT. The Bible trumps medical science EVERY TIME. Burn in hell, homofag.

You're laying it on too thick. You have to be less obvious to actually catch anyone when you're trolling.

bobvila136: mister aj: You elitist liberals make me sick. You think that just because you're "educated" on so-called "science" that you know what's RIGHT. The Bible trumps medical science EVERY TIME. Burn in hell, homofag.

You're laying it on too thick. You have to be less obvious to actually catch anyone when you're trolling.

Actually, I think mister aj is using sarcasm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this an episode of House MD?

Squidgilum: Then she'll switch back. No big deal. And if he feels he's made a mistake, he'll switch back again. In fact, he/she could make it a part of the show, like Cher changing clothes constantly.



Sex changes do not work that way!

mister aj:
You elitist liberals make me sick. You think that just because you're "educated" on so-called "science" that you know what's RIGHT. The Bible trumps medical science EVERY TIME. Burn in hell, homofag.

Sxooter: Gender Queer does not mean gay or lesbian... Your whole post seems to follow from a presupposition that it does.

There's still nothing wrong with you, unless you WANT something to be wrong with you.

I'm all about people doing what they need to do in their world, just as long as it's doesn't involve stepping on other peoples toes. We don't live long enough for us to figure everything out, so we have to make the best of it we can. I get that part.

The fact still remains, you are who you are. While, your body is yours, your sex life is yours, it's all yours. I'm of the mind, inverting a penis and taking hormones might make someone happier, but it doesn't make them a girl. It's just an extremely drastic measure that should be taken if and only if all other measures failed miserably. Even at the point of no return where it's going to happen, people should be advised against it.

It's the same thing as chopping off your own foot because you grew up knowing you should not have that foot (yes, that happens, it's called body identity disorder). Sure, they end up much happier after the body part is removed. There are other options.

/with the one BIG exception of reversing an incorrect gender assignment at birth. That has demonstrably messed up peoples lives so throughly they end up having no sex drive, ambition, and no clear understanding of who they are.

Ya know, I don't really take issue with he/she making this decision. Instead I wonder what in the human mind makes it click to go against its biology. If it is sexual identification or if its something else? I won't profess to be knowledgable in the realm of psychology but it just really comes off as an anomoly...a hitch in the biology.

Banana Montana?

Life_is_a_carnivore: Banana Montana?

Wow. Just wow.

I just got this perfect image of some young kid, with his junk still intact going all RuPaul to the Mickey Mouse Club loving kid pop music market. He could make MILLIONS, while making every boy in the sub 16 year age feel really dirty when he goes to sleep at night.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Sxooter: Gender Queer does not mean gay or lesbian... Your whole post seems to follow from a presupposition that it does.

There's still nothing wrong with you, unless you WANT something to be wrong with you.

Sorry, but that's a statement that you can only make from outside my realm of experience and therefore is at best an (un)educated guess. Unless you grew up wearing your mother's clothes when she wasn't around, preteding you were a girl when no one was looking, you can't possibly tell me I wanted this. I didn't want to be like this, I was born like this.


/with the one BIG exception of reversing an incorrect gender assignment at birth. That has demonstrably messed up peoples lives so throughly they end up having no sex drive, ambition, and no clear understanding of who they are.

Note that the vast majority of gender reassignments done at birth have been on either intersexed children, or male children with horrifically botched circumcisions. I believe no gender reassignment should be done until the child themselves identifies as one gender or another, especially with intersexed children.

I look at young transwomen like this girl and am very happy for them that they were born to parents in an understanding society and they can make a change that works so well for them. And there's broad spectrums of how people transition and how far they go. Some girls enjoy having penises and that's ok too.

The big draw for me would have been to start hormone therapy young enough to look like a girl. Having a penis is something I could take or leave. But once testosterone starts shaping you into a male, it's late in the game.

Firedust: Ya know, I don't really take issue with he/she making this decision. Instead I wonder what in the human mind makes it click to go against its biology. If it is sexual identification or if its something else? I won't profess to be knowledgable in the realm of psychology but it just really comes off as an anomoly...a hitch in the biology.

The truth is, nobody knows for certain. It seems to be less a hitch in biology as neurology or psychology. They are, for the most part, either XX-Female identifying as male, or XY-male identifying as female. There's others, I'm sure (47, XXY, 47, XYY, 47, XXX), but there's no real difference between them and the standard 46, XX and 46, XY in terms of gender & sex. Genetically, most are normal male or females.

Sex reassignment surgery in the case of intersex or hermaphrodites is a wee bit different, for obvious reasons. In which case the person gets to choose their own sex if they have reasonably non-assholish parents.

In short, nobody knows for certain.

Sxooter: Sorry, but that's a statement that you can only make from outside my realm of experience and therefore is at best an (un)educated guess. Unless you grew up wearing your mother's clothes when she wasn't around, preteding you were a girl when no one was looking, you can't possibly tell me I wanted this. I didn't want to be like this, I was born like this.

I used to wear my mother's clothes when she was around. Not that I delighted in identifying as a woman, you see, or desiring both characteristics, but I did love to shock my mother.

It was that or jump through the glass cocktail table and stick knives in electrical outlets. I did those, too, but honestly throwing on the Sunday best seemed to be a far safer alternative.

Sxooter: I believe no gender reassignment should be done until the child themselves identifies as one gender or another, especially with intersexed children.

This is one of those things I have no opinion on. It's way too hard to call. What I do know of it is by time someone is old enough to be aware of their own sexuality, they usually end up not having one.

If they get the assignment wrong (which does happen), you can end up with someone who is more screwed up than they would have been if they went without having an assignment.

If they get it right, you can end up with an adult who lives a productive and happy life.

Sex is such an important part of the human condition, if something can be done to help someone have a healthy sex life, then it should be done. it's just that simple. Problem is, if they get it wrong, you can end up royally messing up someone.

I just hope I NEVER end up having to make a decision like that.

One thing I will not allow, no son of mine is getting circumcised unless he choses to.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Life_is_a_carnivore: Banana Montana?

Wow. Just wow.

I just got this perfect image of some young kid, with his junk still intact going all RuPaul to the Mickey Mouse Club loving kid pop music market. He could make MILLIONS, while making every boy in the sub 16 year age feel really dirty when he goes to sleep at night.



Warms the heart, doesn't it?

Dr. Mojo PhD: Sxooter: Sorry, but that's a statement that you can only make from outside my realm of experience and therefore is at best an (un)educated guess. Unless you grew up wearing your mother's clothes when she wasn't around, preteding you were a girl when no one was looking, you can't possibly tell me I wanted this. I didn't want to be like this, I was born like this.

I used to wear my mother's clothes when she was around. Not that I delighted in identifying as a woman, you see, or desiring both characteristics, but I did love to shock my mother.

Then you don't share a common experience with me, because your motivation was completely different. I didn't dress in mom's clothes to shock anyone, I did it to feel like (for a short time at least) a girl.

I've certainly mellowed into it, and found that i don't need to be a girl to be happy, and I'd rather be an old guy who let's his friend's daughter put make up on me occasionally than try to pass as a really ugly chick.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: One thing I will not allow, no son of mine is getting circumcised unless he choses to.

Or unless it's medically necessary, right? My cousin had to be circumcised because of an infection of the frenulum that risked spreading to his glans and the rest of his penis. It was either snip the tip or chop the cock.

Sxooter: Then you don't share a common experience with me, because your motivation was completely different. I didn't dress in mom's clothes to shock anyone, I did it to feel like (for a short time at least) a girl.

Eh, I was just joking with you. You'll notice I pointed out the same thing to Renowned as you. I'm on the same page, even if it's your autobiography and I just picked it up in the store.

Sxooter: I've certainly mellowed into it, and found that i don't need to be a girl to be happy, and I'd rather be an old guy who let's his friend's daughter put make up on me occasionally than try to pass as a really ugly chick.

I used to let chicks put makeup on me all the time. It's interesting, because it seems that you felt (and this may be presumptuous of me) uncomfortable with your gender role, while I felt totally comfortable with mine. Leading to the same outcomes, if for completely different motivations.

LowbrowDeluxe: I have high hopes that in another 50-75 years issues like this will be considered trivial. Sooner or later we're going to hit a biomedical breakthrough that will make the question of what is human the burning question of the day, and all this will be seen as the trivial window dressing that it is.

The furries must be looking forward to that.

Okay, I think I might have a bit of teh ghey AND I need to have a seat over there...

Dr. Mojo PhD:

Sxooter: Then you don't share a common experience with me, because your motivation was completely different. I didn't dress in mom's clothes to shock anyone, I did it to feel like (for a short time at least) a girl.

Eh, I was just joking with you. You'll notice I pointed out the same thing to Renowned as you. I'm on the same page, even if it's your autobiography and I just picked it up in the store.

Oh sorry thought you were that other guy... RTS.

Sxooter: Dr. Mojo PhD:

Sxooter: Then you don't share a common experience with me, because your motivation was completely different. I didn't dress in mom's clothes to shock anyone, I did it to feel like (for a short time at least) a girl.

Eh, I was just joking with you. You'll notice I pointed out the same thing to Renowned as you. I'm on the same page, even if it's your autobiography and I just picked it up in the store.

Oh sorry thought you were that other guy... RTS.

Oh, it's a common mistake. No worries.

dcigary: Holy Tapdancing Jeebus WTF is that NEXT to her?!?!

It looks like something out of "Tales from the Crypt".

Look at mommy again.

/waits

What have we learned?

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: So a teenage boy chopped off his penis and then had it shoved inside his pelvic cavity to make a "vagina".

I miss those guys!

/no tranny Pedobear?

boobsrgood: Look at mommy again.

/waits

What have we learned?

Hit it and flee before she turns 30 20